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woody with a view
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rdrrm8e
| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
come on, how can you not adore these bumbling fools? |
Perfect....!
Only Paul is much more dangerous |
separated at birth!!!!
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Cisco
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Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by watizname
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT.....
--- I am a rather confused believer in situational ethics. I say confused because of so many questions in my mind.
[Edited on 7-5-2012 by DianaT] |
Diana,
One benefit of being confused is that it opens up more possibilities....being "certain" about something reduces one's options.
I think that we, as a species, are a virus on this planet....it is all unfolding as it is. If we were to consider ourselves to be parasites (perhaps
more generous a thought than being a virus), we still aren't even at the stage of being in a symbiotic relationship as a parasite, as both the host
(ie. the planet) and the parasite have mutual benefit in that type of parasitic relationship.
We just suck vitality and viability from our host....and what is most obscene, is that we think we are entitled to that sucking.
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I think motoged is right on. Look at satilite photos of the earth and see how the giant developed areas
look grey, and dead, like a cancer on a living cell. That's us folks. I don't think we have much longer, in geologic time. |
Can you people get a grip on yourselves?
Humans are a life form like any other, they are not evil nor do humans suck imperatively. When people build cities to live in they do so because it
meets the needs of society, people living in cities is more efficient and uses less space and resources. The fact that cities are built of cement and
are grey doesn't make them inherently bad. Nor is countryside somehow always better. The truth is humans are a species and have every right and reason
to make things, eat things, produce waste and to live. Cows, fish, and insects are no different.
Certainly you would agree living inside a beehive, or ant hill or bat cave may seem claustrophobic but it serves the needs of the organism.
The idea that people are bad because they exist is purely a false idea designed to produce guilt and use that guilt to oppress people. The idea of
Gaia, Agenda 21 and Anthopogenic Global Warming are demonstratable to be false, their roots are well documented as purely social ideas to control
people.
Whereas the truth is organisms do come and go, they do become extinct always in every case. The idea that people should die or be restricted so that
an near extinct animal can live or so that one persons idea of society can be cut from anothers existence is pure nonsense based in beliefs not in any
science nor beneficial practice.
It was Malthus who promoted the idea that human population would grow faster than food production and that humans would die due to lack of resources.
Malthus was wrong, we have the ability to produce as much or more food than we need. Except that the current UN and USA admin still quotes and claims
to believe in Malthus and his ideas are promoted by Holdren et al under Obama.
The truth is people do not suck, they are not a plague, people are beautiful just like flowers or birds.
The thing that sucks is war, aggression, the endless death toll wrought by US military against civilians all for profit for the military industrial
complex.
But instead of being brave enough to say that we are all responsible for the endless terror, torture and rape by the US military, you have cowards
here blaming people for living in a city as a form of evil?
Take a moment and turn off the TV and perhaps using pen and paper start writing down your priorities, make columns for pro and con and jot down
reasons why you think humans suck vs. other organisms. Try to identify what really sucks, what is absurd and what mechanisms are really harmful. Then
try to give reasons to support your ideas. Perhaps using this method you will come to different conclusions than the idea that people are bad. Whats
bad is hierarchical systems that promote oppression of one over another, especially those that use violence and aggression to profit.
[Edited on 7-7-2012 by gnukid] |
"Agriculture's sudden rise, however, came with a price. It introduced infectious-disease epidemics, social stratification, intermittent famines,
and large-scale war.
Jared Diamond, the UCLA professor and writer, has called the adoption of agriculture nothing less than "the worst mistake in human history"--a
mistake, he suggests, from which we have never recovered."
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
"Agriculture's sudden rise, however, came with a price. It introduced infectious-disease epidemics, social stratification, intermittent famines,
and large-scale war.
Jared Diamond, the UCLA professor and writer, has called the adoption of agriculture nothing less than "the worst mistake in human history"--a
mistake, he suggests, from which we have never recovered." |
Agriculture isn't itself a problem, the issue is the method of production and forces that cause farmers to produce only one crop, such as corn for
ethynol due to subsidies for the crop while producing no other beneficial crops. Furthermore, the use of GMO corn harms the farmer, the land and the
crop by failing to increase output and instead reduce output, poison the land and the people and leave them in debt using round-up ready seeds that do
not germinate and require seed subscritpions to continue use of seed. These actions are part of a collective integrated with government, in this case
in the form of Rumsfeld working for Monstanto.
Other well known examples of this process of creating loans teo create debt to acquire land and consolidate land has occurred under USA leadership for
decades if not centuries, commonly known as the banana republics under Dole. These invasive tactics in combination with military invasions to bring
democracy are well devised system to remove self-sufficiency and create imperialism, fascism and total dominance over a region while leaving lands
destroyed.
This pattern is one that is our rich history of the USA, one which is in full swing today as we destroy cultures throughout the world using depleted
uranium, bombs, fund terror, spread disease through bio-weapons and kill women and children as well of course all men.
While it is easy to blame agriculture, agriculture is not problematic, its the methods of massive commercial collective agriculture, GMO, IMF, WHO, UN
and military that destroy the intricate economies and overall health.
The result is the creation of desert through poor practices, while it has also been demonstrated that desert can be greened through best practices. So
one can see, the myopia that leads to blaming people, populations or agriculture for the damage to land, society and world biological destruction is
misguided. A more detailed look at the issues shows that it is monopolies, large scale corrupt politics and large scale militarization to support
commercial agriculture that is a problem.
It should come as no surprise that the USA is fighting the longest war of it' history to support heroine production in Afghanistan. This should come
as no surprise since we all studied the history of the East India Company owned by the Queen whose product was heroine among other agricultural
products. Nothing has changed today except the ghost holding company name.
Now, one can not expect Nomads fueled on Cable TV, cheezwiz and factory processed crap to be able to see or rationally discuss these failing
mechanisms that are poison to society, just as Diet Soda is poison that leads to obesity and death, or pain medicines that kill you, or any of the
nonsense on the shelves of your average grocery store, it's poison that you support, fund and ingest that is heart of the evil.
All one needs to do is simply start farming, even on a 1sq foot plot and you will receive the benefits, while putting an end to funding the poisons
that are killing you, and share these fruits with others, in order to take control of agriculture and your life.
[Edited on 7-7-2012 by gnukid]
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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my little patch of earth is currently producing the following: 2 types of tomatos, 2 types of peaches, oranges, limes, lemons, lemongrass, avocado,
mango (not producing yet), asparagus, basil, 3 types of squash, 2 types of Peruvian chili peppers, bell peppers, huacatay, spinach, greens, red
onions, kale, carrots, 5 different herbs (not THAT kind!), and stawberries.
no pesticides or fertilizers and they ALL taste better than anything bought from a store.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
my little patch of earth is currently producing the following: 2 types of tomatos, 2 types of peaches, oranges, limes, lemons, lemongrass, avocado,
mango (not producing yet), asparagus, basil, 3 types of squash, 2 types of Peruvian chili peppers, bell peppers, huacatay, spinach, greens, red
onions, kale, carrots, 5 different herbs (not THAT kind!), and stawberries.
no pesticides or fertilizers and they ALL taste better than anything bought from a store. |
Every Mexican rooftop is a perfect place to start a garden, all the materials are available, water (grey), compost, sun and a farmer.
Imagine if every rooftop was being farmed, the greening for cities, the increase in local production and the reduction of dependency on commercial
cops and their destructive methods.
If everyone took one step to help themselves through home gardening, the benefits would be evident by reduced dependency on commercial crops, and you
might find that you think clearer due to the increased nutrition and reduced poison in your foods.
Don't forget plants need CO2, it's their food and the building block of life, the idea that CO2 is a poison is among false notions that are used to
divide people in a nonsensical discussion (like this one) that wastes time and reduces our productivity, happiness and health.
Beware of the green eco trap of false logic to prompt dialectic to divide people or worse to encourage funding collectives that oppress others such as
EPA, WHO, UNESCO, IMF FDA.
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
"Agriculture's sudden rise, however, came with a price. It introduced infectious-disease epidemics, social stratification, intermittent famines,
and large-scale war.
Jared Diamond, the UCLA professor and writer, has called the adoption of agriculture nothing less than "the worst mistake in human history"--a
mistake, he suggests, from which we have never recovered." |
Agriculture isn't itself a problem, the issue is the method of production and forces that cause farmers to produce only one crop, such as corn for
ethynol due to subsidies for the crop while producing no other beneficial crops. Furthermore, the use of GMO corn harms the farmer, the land and the
crop by failing to increase output and instead reduce output, poison the land and the people and leave them in debt using round-up ready seeds that do
not germinate and require seed subscritpions to continue use of seed. These actions are part of a collective integrated with government, in this case
in the form of Rumsfeld working for Monstanto.
Other well known examples of this process of creating loans teo create debt to acquire land and consolidate land has occurred under USA leadership for
decades if not centuries, commonly known as the banana republics under Dole. These invasive tactics in combination with military invasions to bring
democracy are well devised system to remove self-sufficiency and create imperialism, fascism and total dominance over a region while leaving lands
destroyed.
This pattern is one that is our rich history of the USA, one which is in full swing today as we destroy cultures throughout the world using depleted
uranium, bombs, fund terror, spread disease through bio-weapons and kill women and children as well of course all men.
While it is easy to blame agriculture, agriculture is not problematic, its the methods of massive commercial collective agriculture, GMO, IMF, WHO, UN
and military that destroy the intricate economies and overall health.
The result is the creation of desert through poor practices, while it has also been demonstrated that desert can be greened through best practices. So
one can see, the myopia that leads to blaming people, populations or agriculture for the damage to land, society and world biological destruction is
misguided. A more detailed look at the issues shows that it is monopolies, large scale corrupt politics and large scale militarization to support
commercial agriculture that is a problem.
It should come as no surprise that the USA is fighting the longest war of it' history to support heroine production in Afghanistan. This should come
as no surprise since we all studied the history of the East India Company owned by the Queen whose product was heroine among other agricultural
products. Nothing has changed today except the ghost holding company name.
Now, one can not expect Nomads fueled on Cable TV, cheezwiz and factory processed crap to be able to see or rationally discuss these failing
mechanisms that are poison to society, just as Diet Soda is poison that leads to obesity and death, or pain medicines that kill you, or any of the
nonsense on the shelves of your average grocery store, it's poison that you support, fund and ingest that is heart of the evil.
All one needs to do is simply start farming, even on a 1sq foot plot and you will receive the benefits, while putting an end to funding the poisons
that are killing you, and share these fruits with others, in order to take control of agriculture and your life.
[Edited on 7-7-2012 by gnukid] |
I was responding to your initial post and had you followed my other posts you would have understood that I am speaking to a society that has no need
for money. Unfortunately a place that only a few societies occupy in today's world and a place where we humans will not go back to as we (the only
money using species on the planet) have become aware that money is basically stored energy.
My statement:
"Agriculture's sudden rise, however, came with a price. It introduced infectious-disease epidemics, social stratification, intermittent famines, and
large-scale war."
may perhaps be better understood by you now.
What we have done to ourselves in the creation of social stratification, disease and mayhem are the processes that you point out, not the genesis.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
I was responding to your initial post and had you followed my other posts you would have understood that I am speaking to a society that has no need
for money. Unfortunately a place that only a few societies occupy in today's world and a place where we humans will not go back to as we (the only
money using species on the planet) have become aware that money is basically stored energy.
My statement:
"Agriculture's sudden rise, however, came with a price. It introduced infectious-disease epidemics, social stratification, intermittent famines, and
large-scale war."
may perhaps be better understood by you now.
What we have done to ourselves in the creation of social stratification, disease and mayhem are the processes that you point out, not the genesis.
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Ah well hmm, it is hard to follow your point, without breaking it down further, we can't understand the forces that cause or create mayhem.
Society doesn't just lurch along for no reason, if by accident. Instead society is moved along by promoted messaging (memes) and by collective
strategy which in some cases is designed to cause destabilization, consolidation and profit.
There is a rhyme to the reason.
More to your point:
1) E=MC2 all material things are stored energy
2) Currency can be anything, our system of debt based currency inherently owned by a private (secret) club known as the Federal Reserve is designed to
absolutely be a debt and absolutely result in inflation. There can be other case when interacting with the FedRes. Any other form of currency would be
preferred.
How can we use stored energy and reduce our dependency on FedReserve currency? Grow food in your garden. Share it with friends.
Amazing how simply getting involved in your food production can solve so many problems you cause for yourself.
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
What we have done to ourselves in the creation of social stratification, disease and mayhem are the processes that you point out, not the genesis.
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Ah well hmm, it is hard to follow your point, without breaking it down further, we can't understand the forces that cause or create mayhem.
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Greed.
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
What we have done to ourselves in the creation of social stratification, disease and mayhem are the processes that you point out, not the genesis.
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Ah well hmm, it is hard to follow your point, without breaking it down further, we can't understand the forces that cause or create mayhem.
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Greed. |
An example just came to me Paul.
There is a children's video "A Bug's Life" that explains all.
"Hopper" and his band of grasshoppers annually demand tribute from an ant colony in the form of seeds. The demand is under threat of force.
What is happening is that "Hopper" and his band do not want to labor for their food, rather take it by force.
Sound familiar???
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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"Here ya go. You are incapable of counting your money, and for that matter knowing when and how to sell your crop. Let me sit here at my desk and
consume thousands of hours of your labor, and a huge chunk of your potential profit so I can tell you how much to borrow for net year's crop. If it
weren't for us speculator-investors who knows...your next crop might be worthless".
Speculation is the most primitive, punitive, and damaging tax there is. The tax disappears out of the money supply available to low-income
individuals. Speculation is a tax. Without speculation gasoline would cost around a dollar and a half per gallon, and exploration and refining
upgrades would not suffer one whit.
So, go ahead and keep fretting over Obamacare, tax nickels, and ignore speculation dollars taxation. America worked perfectly for centuries without
commodities speculation, and the standard of living was relatively high. In the famous words of Inspector Clouseau "Not.....Any.....More"
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7390
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Whale "accidently' caught auctioned off for $57,000
http://www.smh.com.au/world/hopes-sink-with-seouls-scientifi...
It makes sense to me to make it illegal to sell these animals.
[Edited on 7-7-2012 by SFandH]
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watizname
Senior Nomad
Posts: 792
Registered: 8-7-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by watizname
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT.....
--- I am a rather confused believer in situational ethics. I say confused because of so many questions in my mind.
[Edited on 7-5-2012 by DianaT] |
Diana,
One benefit of being confused is that it opens up more possibilities....being "certain" about something reduces one's options.
I think that we, as a species, are a virus on this planet....it is all unfolding as it is. If we were to consider ourselves to be parasites (perhaps
more generous a thought than being a virus), we still aren't even at the stage of being in a symbiotic relationship as a parasite, as both the host
(ie. the planet) and the parasite have mutual benefit in that type of parasitic relationship.
We just suck vitality and viability from our host....and what is most obscene, is that we think we are entitled to that sucking.
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I think motoged is right on. Look at satilite photos of the earth and see how the giant developed areas
look grey, and dead, like a cancer on a living cell. That's us folks. I don't think we have much longer, in geologic time. |
Can you people get a grip on yourselves?
Humans are a life form like any other, they are not evil nor do humans suck imperatively. When people build cities to live in they do so because it
meets the needs of society, people living in cities is more efficient and uses less space and resources. The fact that cities are built of cement and
are grey doesn't make them inherently bad. Nor is countryside somehow always better. The truth is humans are a species and have every right and reason
to make things, eat things, produce waste and to live. Cows, fish, and insects are no different.
Certainly you would agree living inside a beehive, or ant hill or bat cave may seem claustrophobic but it serves the needs of the organism.
The idea that people are bad because they exist is purely a false idea designed to produce guilt and use that guilt to oppress people. The idea of
Gaia, Agenda 21 and Anthopogenic Global Warming are demonstratable to be false, their roots are well documented as purely social ideas to control
people.
Whereas the truth is organisms do come and go, they do become extinct always in every case. The idea that people should die or be restricted so that
an near extinct animal can live or so that one persons idea of society can be cut from anothers existence is pure nonsense based in beliefs not in any
science nor beneficial practice.
It was Malthus who promoted the idea that human population would grow faster than food production and that humans would die due to lack of resources.
Malthus was wrong, we have the ability to produce as much or more food than we need. Except that the current UN and USA admin still quotes and claims
to believe in Malthus and his ideas are promoted by Holdren et al under Obama.
The truth is people do not suck, they are not a plague, people are beautiful just like flowers or birds.
The thing that sucks is war, aggression, the endless death toll wrought by US military against civilians all for profit for the military industrial
complex.
But instead of being brave enough to say that we are all responsible for the endless terror, torture and rape by the US military, you have cowards
here blaming people for living in a city as a form of evil?
Take a moment and turn off the TV and perhaps using pen and paper start writing down your priorities, make columns for pro and con and jot down
reasons why you think humans suck vs. other organisms. Try to identify what really sucks, what is absurd and what mechanisms are really harmful. Then
try to give reasons to support your ideas. Perhaps using this method you will come to different conclusions than the idea that people are bad. Whats
bad is hierarchical systems that promote oppression of one over another, especially those that use violence and aggression to profit.
[Edited on 7-7-2012 by gnukid] |
gnukid, I wasn't trying to make a determination of whether mankinds
development of the earth was good or bad, only that it looks to me like the earth is being consumed, and that mankind is on it's way out as a species.
Not necessarily tomorrow, but comming up. Like you said, "organisms do come and go, do become extinct always and in every case.
I yam what I yam and that\'s all what I yam.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | | Quote: |
Can you people get a grip on yourselves?
Humans are a life form like any other, they are not evil nor do humans suck imperatively. When people build cities to live in they do so because it
meets the needs of society, people living in cities is more efficient and uses less space and resources. The fact that cities are built of cement and
are grey doesn't make them inherently bad. Nor is countryside somehow always better. The truth is humans are a species and have every right and reason
to make things, eat things, produce waste and to live. Cows, fish, and insects are no different.
Certainly you would agree living inside a beehive, or ant hill or bat cave may seem claustrophobic but it serves the needs of the organism.
The idea that people are bad because they exist is purely a false idea designed to produce guilt and use that guilt to oppress people. The idea of
Gaia, Agenda 21 and Anthopogenic Global Warming are demonstratable to be false, their roots are well documented as purely social ideas to control
people.
Whereas the truth is organisms do come and go, they do become extinct always in every case. The idea that people should die or be restricted so that
an near extinct animal can live or so that one persons idea of society can be cut from anothers existence is pure nonsense based in beliefs not in any
science nor beneficial practice.
It was Malthus who promoted the idea that human population would grow faster than food production and that humans would die due to lack of resources.
Malthus was wrong, we have the ability to produce as much or more food than we need. Except that the current UN and USA admin still quotes and claims
to believe in Malthus and his ideas are promoted by Holdren et al under Obama.
The truth is people do not suck, they are not a plague, people are beautiful just like flowers or birds.
The thing that sucks is war, aggression, the endless death toll wrought by US military against civilians all for profit for the military industrial
complex.
But instead of being brave enough to say that we are all responsible for the endless terror, torture and rape by the US military, you have cowards
here blaming people for living in a city as a form of evil?
Take a moment and turn off the TV and perhaps using pen and paper start writing down your priorities, make columns for pro and con and jot down
reasons why you think humans suck vs. other organisms. Try to identify what really sucks, what is absurd and what mechanisms are really harmful. Then
try to give reasons to support your ideas. Perhaps using this method you will come to different conclusions than the idea that people are bad. Whats
bad is hierarchical systems that promote oppression of one over another, especially those that use violence and aggression to profit.
[Edited on 7-7-2012 by gnukid] |
Amen!!! |
Gnukid----------"AMEN" is right!!! 
Gnukid, that is a brilliant & concise 'piece' you have written there. Congratulations, and thank you.
Barry
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
From what I gather, if we don't elect democrats to house seats the planet is doomed. Those nasty 'ole republicans don't care about the environment or
believe in science. Yep, democrats will solve all our problems.
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Republicans subordinate science to profit. When money is not involved they become more clear-headed.
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Skipjack Joe
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Much was written about man's abuse of our planet, it's inhabitants, and our certain path to extinction.
Gnukid tried to make the correction but in so doing added his pet conspiracy theories that had little to do with the subject.
Back in the late 60's the Stanford professor Paul Erlich was a late night visitor of late night television who became interested in his book "The
Population Bomb".
This book clearly maps out how our population is growing and all of the known agricultural and potential agricultural centers of our planet. The
potential of our oceans was also evaluated. The global food resources were evaluated. The food requirements of mankind were evaluated. And finally a
graph was presented. A horizontal line for food availability and a diagonal line for our growth. At the interesection of the 2 we were going to start
experiencing global famines.
This was supposed to happen somewhere in the late 70's - early 80's. The 70's - early 80's came and went with none of the predictions being met. Paul
Erlich was no longer a popular speaker.
As any biologist knows no living species continues to grow unabated forever. Ehrlich assumed that the balance would be reached through starvation. But
there are many other ways. We self regulate.
My wife's peruvian family had 14 siblings but none of those sivlings had more than 2 kids. My grandmother belonged to a family of 11 but, again nobody
had more than 3 kids.
The fact is that when a population is growing at a exponential rate without restrictions it will reproduce very differently then when the carring
capacity of the environment is reached.
The reason we're not starving is because we've adapted. And because we can adapt there will be no extinction.
And we will adapt to global warming in some way when the stakes get high enough.
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gnukid
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by watiznamegnukid, I wasn't trying to make a determination of whether mankinds development of the earth was good or bad,
only that it looks to me like the earth is being consumed, and that mankind is on it's way out as a species. Not necessarily tomorrow, but comming
up. Like you said, "organisms do come and go, do become extinct always and in every case. |
There have always been catastrophic changes in the earth, for example North America was once covered in glaciers and the artic was once green,
volcanos create massive changes in the earth and atmosphere, of course the earth orbit changes known as the Milankovitch cycles.
And humanity has cycles as well. It's apparent that far in the past humans understood astronomy, mathematics, and they were able to create high
quality objects of stone, such as some of the pyramids with presicion cut stones weighing more than 100,000 tons, perfect stone bowls made of some of
the hardest material on earth, and many of the worldwide objects were created in a similar fashion yet by different cultures around the earth so long
distance communication existed as well, and we can not recreate the quality or the method today?
So, humans apparently have cycles of intelligence and awareness of their world. It's clear that there are some people who are connected to the earth
such as the indigenous people of North America, sort of spiritually connected, intimately aware of how their actions interrelate to the earth, while
others have lost this connection today.
So, as opposed to a single rise and fall of humanity, there have been countless cycles of increased and decreased intelligence. Furthermore, today we
have dumbing down programming as a constant, TV and media present false and idiotic notion as a surplus of their content focus. All of the issues with
humanity partial decline have to do with the ability or loss of ability to think and reason rationally. Nutrition is a key component. The brain won't
function when it lacks adequate nutrients.
So, no the earth isn't dying, humanity isn't doomed. Humans are simply in a low intelligence cycle lacking spiritual connection to the earth and
proper nutrition and exercise. Yet there is rising awareness as evidenced by our enthusiasm for nutrition, connection and rational discussion
presently.
[Edited on 7-8-2012 by gnukid]
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Flynn Effect
IQ scores have been rising steadily ever since it was first measured.
Many proposals have been made as to why. One is that the media awareness and availability is actually increasing our intelligence. Another has to do
with better nutrition. And still another is the great reduction in infectious diseases that can thwart brain development during the early years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
I found nothing regarding cycles of intelligence. Although it seems compelling to think that the intelligence of the average european dropped during
the middle ages after the sacking of Rome.
But to suggest that intelligence is waning due to an embracing of technology has more to do with a person's value system (good=smart, bad=dumb) than
with intelligence. Sitting Bull = intelligent, Bill Gates = stupid.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Much was written about man's abuse of our planet, it's inhabitants, and our certain path to extinction.
Gnukid tried to make the correction but in so doing added his pet conspiracy theories that had little to do with the subject.
Back in the late 60's the Stanford professor Paul Erlich was a late night visitor of late night television who became interested in his book "The
Population Bomb".
This book clearly maps out how our population is growing and all of the known agricultural and potential agricultural centers of our planet. The
potential of our oceans was also evaluated. The global food resources were evaluated. The food requirements of mankind were evaluated. And finally a
graph was presented. A horizontal line for food availability and a diagonal line for our growth. At the interesection of the 2 we were going to start
experiencing global famines.
This was supposed to happen somewhere in the late 70's - early 80's. The 70's - early 80's came and went with none of the predictions being met. Paul
Erlich was no longer a popular speaker.
As any biologist knows no living species continues to grow unabated forever. Ehrlich assumed that the balance would be reached through starvation. But
there are many other ways. We self regulate.
My wife's peruvian family had 14 siblings but none of those sivlings had more than 2 kids. My grandmother belonged to a family of 11 but, again nobody
had more than 3 kids.
The fact is that when a population is growing at a exponential rate without restrictions it will reproduce very differently then when the carring
capacity of the environment is reached.
The reason we're not starving is because we've adapted. And because we can adapt there will be no extinction.
And we will adapt to global warming in some way when the stakes get high enough. |
SkipJack's reply provides an example of the irrational thought programming that is the single most significant plague on humanity. His reply contains
a number of fallacies, theories and conclusion.
SkiJack makes a personal attack on me without making or rebutting a point? This is fallacious argument, ad hominem, and is used by people with no
point to make.
Skipjacks notes about Paul Erlich false predictions don't make a point. Using a negative conclusion as evidence doesn't support a valid argument or
make a point. Saying this didn't happen so therefore x is true doesn't make a point except that x didn't happen. Erlich was wrong, so what?
Furthermore, population isn't growing exponentially, it's unclear that is growing at all as we see in all developing countries population is
decreasing. The overall population is currently stable and many if not most countries are losing population as a product of births per family.
He uses the term global warming as a reference but that as well is theory while it is clear the earth was absolutely warmer previously, as
well with much higher CO2 than today. In fact, the highest global temperature recorded was in 1988, Mann's hockey stick theory of global warming has been proven demonstrably not just wrong but unethical and junk science.
So, SkipJack makes a series of inflamatory and false statements which support absolutely no other conclusion than irrational thought is rampant and
lack of reason is a most serious obstacle toward thoughtful discussion and human evolution.
So what is the cause of the loss of reason among humanity and what can we do to reverse the trend?
[Edited on 7-8-2012 by gnukid]
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woody with a view
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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"Furthermore, population isn't growing exponentially, it's unclear that is growing at all as we see in all developing countries population is
decreasing. The overall population is currently stable and many if not most countries are losing population as a product of births per family."
i remember being a kid when the news made a big deal out of the 2 billionth human dropping onto planet Earth.
anyone know what the number is now-a-days?
edit: answer= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population 
[Edited on 7-8-2012 by woody with a view]
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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The things I wrote about in regards to Erlich are basic fundamentals of population bilogy taught in undergraduate classes in most zoolog departments.
Look up Gaussian experiments of the 30's. r and K selection. Carrying capacity of environments.
In fact, Ehrlich was not wrong. Mankind did make the adjustments it had to make. Most higher evolved animals do self regulate. That also has been
studied in nature. The Canadians at univerisity of british columbia did it with voles.
Coming from you that is funny. You are the king of junk science on this board. A pseudoscientist that mixes his own thoughts with cherry picked
articles and comes out with fantastic theories that are worded to sound scholastically.
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