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SFandH
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
So the extract is indeed a medicine of one sort or another. It would be nice to see results of a randomized double-blind study of Hawthorne extract in
comparison with placebo and other common medicines such as diltiazem/verapamil, and metoprolol. |
This link may be helpful:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0013393/
The link is part of this website, which I use as a medical reference:
U.S. National Library of Medicine - The World's Largest Medical Library
Put "Hawthorn" into the search textbox for more info.
Hawthorn sounds like interesting stuff. Thanks to the nomad who originally posted about it.
[Edited on 7-31-2012 by SFandH]
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EnsenadaDr
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I think there is some confusion here...
| Quote: | Heart failure is not the same thing as an irregular heartbeat. Heart failure is due to the ventricles, (usually the left ventricle) not having
enough muscle power to pump the blood and the lower pressure causes a fluid back up into the lungs which causes shortness of breath and fatigue.
To talk about a double blind study in heart failure with Verapamil or Metoprolol is truly blind. While Metoprolol and Diltiazem are excellent
medications for irregular heartbeats, these drugs will have serious if not deadly effects on a person with congestive heart failure. (Read the part
about contraindications). http://www.livestrong.com/article/348420-calcium-channel-blo...
Originally posted by wilderone
I take Hawthorne berry for irregular heartbeat as needed. Check it out.
Medicinal Uses and Indications:
Hawthorn is used to help protect against heart disease and help control high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Both animal and human studies
suggest hawthorn increases coronary artery blood flow, improves circulation, and lowers blood pressure. It has also been used on the skin to treat
boils and skin sores.
Heart failure
Hawthorn has been studied in people with heart failure (a condition in which the heart is unable to pump enough blood to other organs in the body),
but more studies are needed to understand how effective it may be. A number of studies conclude that hawthorn significantly improved heart function.
Studies also suggest the herb can enhance a person's ability to exercise following heart failure. Participants in studies have reported that hawthorn
significantly improved symptoms of the disease (such as shortness of breath and fatigue). One study found that hawthorn extract (900 mg/day) taken for
2 months was as effective as low doses of captopril (a prescription heart medication) in improving symptoms of heart failure.
A large study found that a standardized hawthorn supplement was effective in 952 patients with heart failure. The study compared conventional methods
of treating heart failure (with different medications) with hawthorn alone and in addition to the drugs. After 2 years, the clinical symptoms of heart
failure (palpitations, breathing problems, and fatigue) decreased significantly in the patients taking the hawthorn supplement. People taking hawthorn
also took less medication for their condition.
Heart failure is a serious condition, and you should never try to self treat with hawthorn. Ask your doctor if hawthorn is right for you.
Chest pain (Angina)
Preliminary evidence suggests hawthorn may help combat chest pain (angina), which is caused by low blood flow to the heart. In one early study, 60
people with angina were given either 180 mg/day of hawthorn berry leaf flower extract or placebo for 3 weeks. Those who received hawthorn experienced
improved blood flow to the heart and were also able to exercise for longer periods of time without suffering from chest pain. However, more studies
are needed to say for sure whether hawthorn is effective.
High blood pressure
Although hawthorn has not been studied specifically in people with high blood pressure, some people think its benefits in treating heart disease may
carry over to treating high blood pressure (hypertension). However, so far not enough research has been done to say whether hawthorn is effective at
lowering blood pressure -- and if so, by how much.
In one study, hawthorn extract was found to be effective for hypertension in people with type 2 diabetes who were also taking prescribed medicines.
Participants took 1,200 mg hawthorn extract daily or placebo for 16 weeks. Those taking hawthorn had lower blood pressure than those taking the
placebo.
You should talk with your doctor before taking hawthorn if you have high blood pressure.
Available Forms:
Hawthorn is available in nonstandardized and standardized capsules and liquid extracts, along with tinctures and solid extracts. A bitter tasting tea
can also be made from dried hawthorn leaves, flowers, and berries.
Read more: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/hawthorn-000256.htm#ixzz2... |
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DavidE
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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"Hawthorn is used to help protect against heart disease and help control high blood pressure" A Quote
METOPROLOL From The PDR
" Hypertension
Lopressor (metoprolol tartrate) tablets are indicated for the treatment of hypertension. They may be used alone or in combination with other
antihypertensive agents.
VERAPAMIL From The PDR
COVERA-HS is indicated for the management of hypertension and angina.
FROM THE POST
"Medicinal Uses and Indications:
Hawthorn is used to help protect against heart disease and help control high blood pressure"
I then to suggest that I would not consider taking an unproven in a double-blind study herb medication, or medication of any sort...
Followed by a doctor accusing me of being "blind". Oh pray god, may I never regain my eyesight.
[Edited on 7-31-2012 by DavidE]
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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EnsenadaDr
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Sorry David, I was referring to using Hawthorne in a double blind study as to an irregular hearbeat as quoted by Wilderone. For the effects on
hypertension, you are correct, Metoprolol and Diltiazem are good blood pressure medications, and it would be interesting if Hawthorne would be
effective with high blood pressure.
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DavidE
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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I am very touchy about blood pressure because I went through hell trying to control mine. The one doctor in more than twenty I tried that had the
initiative and boldness to try something he suspected as being a root cause, is a hero in my book.
I deeply suspect hypertension has a greater role in Afib than general practitioners realize. Hypertension isn't something that can be relegated to the
"Oh well I tried three doctors and they couldn't control it" department. I watched my father ignore his health, suffer a horrendous stroke, then
gobble really hazardous medications when his afib became too much too bear. The medications would have been fine, but not in double or treble doses
after going without for weeks "because he did not have afib then". It killed him eventually. His friend, an ophthalmologist reported that the hospital
removed a day-dispenser pill box from his pocket with a week's worth of cardiac medications all used up on day three.
Me? I consider myself "The Aware Patient". When I informed Dr. DeCastro "My health is ninety-percent up to me", he laughed and said "Hey! Wait a
minute! My part is more than ten percent!"
A person does not have to be a hypochondriac in order to have the best health they can as they age. But living with high blood pressure or high blood
sugar is a recipe for certain early misery and doom. Big deal. I went through internal medicine doctor after doctor. I was always gracious and polite.
But when I heard remarks like "Your high blood pressure spikes are not well understood" my hair stood on end. And I don't have a lot of hair. Mission
accomplished. Reasonable blood pressure. Reasonable pulse. No Afib.
When I get my eyesight back, and get my spine fixed so I don't have to swallow Tramadol, Acetaminophen and an NSAID to get out of bed in the morning,
I AM FIXED! Less garbage destroying my liver and kidneys! Damn that will feel good!
Thank you Ensenada Dr.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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EnsenadaDr
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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David, I find your posts to be extremely well informed and it must have been my error to assume (makes a burro out of you and me) that you were specifically talking about an irregular heartbeat. Afib in fact
has quite a bit to do with years of hypertension, from what I have read. Usually a person that knows the most has gone through the most, as you can
attest to. I enjoy your interesting comments on herbs and different approaches to traditional medicine so keep 'em coming!!
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Tod
Junior Nomad
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4 years ago I had a minor out-patient operation for Pterygium, a growth on my eye somewhat common to those with lots of exposure to sun and wind. I
ended up coding during this procedure and after they brought me back with CPR (came back to cute nurse straddling my chest and working like crazy on
me) I was rushed to hospital and had two cardioversions which did not 'take'. I was on coumadin and sotolol for many months and then tried another
cardioversion. Finally referred me to another specialists and we did the robotic cathater ablation. Instantly felt great and have been going full
speed ever since with lots of surfing and other exercise. It was an amazing gift to get back to full speed. What caused it??? BP or stress? No one
was able to determine what caused it but I had been light headed for months before I coded.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Let me tell you what might have caused it. During my year of Internship at the Military Hospital I had the pleasure of being in surgery with a very
good ophtalmologist. What happens when surgery is performed on the eye is that a vagal nerve response is frequently induced by the eye surgery and I
have seen many patients go bradycardic...which necesitates the use of atropine which will increase the heart rate. If the anesthesiologist isn't on
the ball or distracted, the heart rate can go dangerously low and may cause a code.
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