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Tio Rocky
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When does Mexico stop owing you? (guys only)
Or maybe better, when do Mexican Females stop owing you?
I have been living and playing here in Ensenada for a few years now and visiting for more years then I want to admit. I have seen and witnessed
countless male gringo?s make the move south. Some just doing the weekends and others doing the full move, which often times means giving up
substantial belongings to make their dream come true. House?s, cars, wife?s and good paying jobs are thrown to the side in hopes of living a life of
weekends here in Baja.
Why do they give it all up and come? almost always if they come alone it?s for a young beautiful Mexican girl who makes them feel 30 years younger.
The adrenaline rush of a young smooth hand stroking your hair and telling you that her Prince Charming has finally arrived, telling you how much she
loves you and how she wants to have your baby and grow old together. And that?s usually just the first date!
I have seen it and experienced it and with the time I have under my belt it has become somewhat funny, sad and at times fully ridiculous. I?ve had
these young frail beauties chew me up and spit me out when out when their thru with me. I?ve been taken, lied too and tricked countless times. And
every time came back for more of the same.
Thru hard work and most of my money I did finally find one that has stuck with me for almost five years now, not an easy thing. We are happy and live
a pretty normal life that makes that long rocky road worth it. She is a great person, not to mention a beautiful Mexicana and still passes her soft
hands thru my hair. But that road was tuff and left me feeling owed as in ?look what I did and what I gave up to be here with you?. It?s a unhealthy
attitude and very common amongst us gringo?s.
At what point, and there has to be that point or your relationship will never last, does she stop owing you? I mean in your mind because actually she
probably never owed you in the first place. She is no doubt paying the price for your other failed try?s. What is it she has to do to get on even
ground with you?
For all of us that question has varying different degrees and issues that need to be resolved. For me it was when I stopped being an ass and realized
that this was a two way street and if I didn?t get this crap out of my head we could never fully be as one.
I have seen countless gringo?s go thru this and some come out so hardened by passed experiences they hold all women responsible. Me, I?m one of the
lucky ones because the tables have turned and I now owe her.
Find that point boys or go home?..
Tio Rocky
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Mike Humfreville
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The vast majority of us are where we have chosen to be.
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Tio Rocky
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Mike
I believe everyone is here because they want to be here with a few exceptions of those who can?t or don?t dare go back.
Not quite the point I was trying to make? and I?m sure I could have explanned myself better
Tio Rocky
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Hook
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Very insightful post, Rocky....
I hope you do not get hammered unnecessarily for describing this syndrome as you see it.
I would just say that, as regrettable as that "gringo" male attitude is, the expectation that a woman "owes" her man is a rather universal male trait
in alot of cultures. Yes, maybe even moreso in the Mexican culture.
Somehow, I think it is part of our evolutionary role as a protector/provider. We have expected servitude/ownership as the reward for protecting life
and limb and providing sustenance. Hundreds of thousands of years of imprinting is hard to overcome.
But overcoming that attitude is also likely a part of our male evolution, and should be. Our role as protector/provider is much diminished in the 21st
century in developed countries.
The thing is, Mexico is a strangely marvelous conumdrum of developed and third-world (that dichotomy has tremedous appeal to alot of us on this
board). Are these women completely dependent on their gringo "husbands" ? If so, the evolutionary learning curve for these men may be slower. I am a
big believer in cause and effect and the effect of environmental conditions on people.
I hope your move south goes well for both of you and am glad you have "found that point."
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Mike Humfreville
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Tio Rocky...
My point is only supporting your story.
In being where we have chosen to be, there are no debts on either side. We are all (both sides) getting out of life exactly what we set out to get.
We are all at peace in that circumstance.
Let's meet at the book signing!
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Tio Rocky
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Very nice reply Hook? and very insightful?
I understand what you are saying and also believe it as fact, maybe not the way some people would like it to be but just the way it is?
With that said, the kind of ?you owe me? I?m speaking about is more of a debt owed.. like making payments to pay me back? sure, there will always be
that I?m man your women thing but this is a little different?. Kind of hard to explain?
Tio Rocky
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Tio Rocky
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Book signing
Hey Mike.... trying to get there but it doesn't look good at this point.... I'll try harder...
Tio
PS. To all... I hope no one takes offense to my posting here? that was not my intension? I have personally passed a road block in my Baja life and
thought it might be helpful for others who may have similar issues to know their not alone,,, and once these issues are worked thru, things get way
better
Tio again.
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JZ
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I can't comment on the owing part of the discussion.
But it is very interesting to see you openly and honestly dicuss the subject of the relationship of gringo's and young Mexican women. I would guess
it is a very big reason why many people love Mexico so much. But it is interesting I don't seem to re-call any discussions on this topic in the 2-3
years I've read the boards. A subject that is taboo?
Hook: you are very right about the intrigue/appeal of the dichotomy to so many.
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JESSE
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What i find truly interesting, is that multiracial and muticultural marriages usually workout better than standar ones, in my experience, i find non
Mexican women a lot more interesting than Mexican women.
( never mention that to my girlfriend)
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Braulio
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An interesting topic TR - I have to admit - I don't think Iwould have phrased it quite the way you did - I mean I guess I don't entirely understand
the part about "owing". What is it that you "owe" her?
A lot of re3lationships between gringos and Mexicanas are really doomed from the getgo because they're just plain mismatched.
There are a lot of reasons why you might see more mismatched couples in Mexico. Probably a lot of it is economic disparity - it can allow folks to
confuse their dreams with their reality.
Another thing about Mexico - contrary to popular wisdom - it's really more of a matriarchal society than most folks think - that is women really
control things more than men. Men are conceded a lot of the economic part (even that's changing these days) but women control pretty much everything
else.
That is the roles that each gender is supposed to play can get confusing in a mixed cultural relationship.
I've got to run - I'll check back in later tonight - If it fits this thread I'll related a story about one of the most mismatched couples I've known
in Mexico.
Chau Tio.
Keep your wits about you even after you're over the part about "owing". (Sounds like you are.)
[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Braulio]
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Tio Rocky
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Ni Modo!
JZ,
Taboo? Don?t think so but it might be one of those things people don?t like to talk about? The behavior we have been raised with tells us there is
something wrong with an age difference or more then lets say 10 years? down south here it is common place and well accepted and actually encouraged by
many mothers?
Braulio,
The term ?owe? is just a figure of speech? poor choice of words maybe? I guess maybe thankful would have been more fitting?.
Some time ago I got so tired of hearing the word, ?Ni Modo?, I had it tattooed on my arm? now I just point? 
Thanks for all the great responses!
Tio Rocky
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Bruce R Leech
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Pompano your suppose to be fishing.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Tio Rocky
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Ni Modo
It has a large range of meaning depending on how used and the tone used? starting point would be ?O?well? ? and ending would be something like,
?O?well, and if you don?t like it to ^%$#@ bad?
Tio Rocky
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Bruce R Leech
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Ni Modo
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Debra
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"Debrito" here (named changed to try and sneek by the "guys only" thing) 
Very good post Tio.....and all of you. I have to admit I was a bit amazed at just how much thought you've all seemed to have put into this thread.
While I've only met Mike H. in person (on this discussion) It has once again make me proud to be part of the whole Baja Nomad connection, (I'm saying
this up to the posts as of mine (I sure hope this doesn't go the way of others) BRAVO GUYS! And thank you! Debrito
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Tio Rocky
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Debra
Debra,
The guy?s only thing was not serious?.. thought it might get some of those dirty old men to click on it, and it?s worked?
I too figured I might get some flack over this and almost didn?t post it because of that?.. set here for ten minutes with my finger hovering over the
mouse and finally clicked it?. Ni Modo?.
The reaction so far is mixed between support and curiosity? I guess I will wait and see if this thread just slowly fads away or others pass their two
pesos along for the rest of us to see?
I may use some of this in the book I will probably never write?
Thanks to All!
Tio Rocky
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PacO
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I guess I am in agreement w/your post. Here is the short version. I would hate for my wife to be on even ground w/me. I just can't see her lowering
herself to that level. If I ever thought she owed me all I only have to think of all the bullchiite of mine she not only accepts/tolerates but
actually encourages. Go figure, one in a bazillion. Is this it in a nutshell?
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Tio Rocky
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Pac0
Elegantly said?. As you may have noticed I said in my posting that she has hung for 5 years and ?that is not an easy thing???. We are in the same
Panga??
Tio Rocky
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Osprey
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Ni Modo
Here's my take on it. It's a Maya thing. The Maya had so many gods and no no's they were busted no matter what they did. Fatalism then and today
defines Mexican culture. It means No Way. Here's the rest of the sentence -- NO WAY this could have been avoided, NO WAY this bad thing that
happened to me was PERSONAL. It's not my fault, no one is to blame! Many gringos suffer twice when their truck breaks down. They do a zillion
things by way of preparation for a trip, then often blame themselves for not forseeing the particular thing that caused the breakdown. The smart,
guilt-free Mexican way suits me just fine.
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bajalera
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Interesting thread, which has made me curious:
Do gringo guys in general share Jesse's view that foreign women are more interesting than the home-grown variety?
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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