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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3735
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
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Mood: muy amable
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Question, por favor
| Quote: | | Do not assume anything. I know of an ambulance that got donated to El Rosario that now stays parked at the persons B&B that was supposed to
coordinate the donation. Just saw it there the other day. He stated a couple of years ago he can use it to rescue tourists on the highway, for a
price. |
Well, I can certainly guess who you are describing,
I ate in there some months back and did not notice an ambulance, but of course I was not looking for one.
How sure are you of this statement?
I intend to ask him next time through
and I do not want to look foolish
(I do a good enough job of doing that all by myself)
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by thebajarunner
Do not assume anything. I know of an ambulance that got donated to El Rosario that now stays parked at the persons B&B that was supposed to
coordinate the donation. Just saw it there the other day. He stated a couple of years ago he can use it to rescue tourists on the highway, for a
price. |
Well, I can certainly guess who you are describing,
I ate in there some months back and did not notice an ambulance, but of course I was not looking for one.
How sure are you of this statement?
I intend to ask him next time through
and I do not want to look foolish
(I do a good enough job of doing that all by myself) |
It was there beginning of October. Right in the yard, inside the gate. His statement to me about the Gringo rescues were made a couple of years
ago.
[Edited on 10-26-2012 by rts551]
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redmesa
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Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
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I guess the issue is what will the emergency protocol be for use of any medical equipment? My experience with my Father was that it would have been
so much better if we could have called for someone to come to our house when he was in cardiac arrest. As it happened my Mother drove him to where he
could get treatment but it was all too slow to save his life. Unless, a person knows how to operate and feel comfortable with any technology or
device it is impossible for them to act quickly and efficiently in a panic crisis. Having transportation to an AED or oxygen could always be a
problem and someone must maintain and have ease of access to such things and know what the next step in the emergency will be. Defibrillation is
only a stop gap for more serious intervention to save a life. I have never know where an AED is located in any public place in the U.S. or Canada
but I am sure they are there somewhere.
[Edited on 10-25-2012 by redmesa]
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bajafam
Senior Nomad
Posts: 654
Registered: 9-6-2009
Location: Northeast AZ, Bahia Asuncion, BCS :)
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I was just browsing, thinking that I need to re-cert for CPR and possibly get certified to teach it and came across these two sites ~
http://cpraedcourse.com/index.php?gclid=COep3_ednbMCFQioPAod... ~ online courses for certification.
http://aedmasters.com/ which has a bunch of equipment for sale, some quite reasonably priced, considering the impact such devices could have.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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The idea is a fairly new concept. The other day, I walked through Honolulu airport, and there were signs everywhere. It is up to each individual to
take the initiative to learn more about it. The machine is fairly simple. You can read how to use it on the internet. Then whereever you are, you
can get started with a group of volunteers to educate and form a 24 hour chain of command. As you adequately pointed out, time is of the essence and
so having the machine within minutes will save lives, this is well documented. | Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
I guess the issue is what will the emergency protocol be for use of any medical equipment? My experience with my Father was that it would have been
so much better if we could have called for someone to come to our house when he was in cardiac arrest. As it happened my Mother drove him to where he
could get treatment but it was all too slow to save his life. Unless, a person knows how to operate and feel comfortable with any technology or
device it is impossible for them to act quickly and efficiently in a panic crisis. Having transportation to an AED or oxygen could always be a
problem and someone must maintain and have ease of access to such things and know what the next step in the emergency will be. Defibrillation is
only a stop gap for more serious intervention to save a life. I have never know where an AED is located in any public place in the U.S. or Canada
but I am sure they are there somewhere.
[Edited on 10-25-2012 by redmesa] |
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windgrrl
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AED Guidelines (Ontario Heart & Stroke)
It's about more than putting a chicken in every pot...
Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada Position Statement
PUBLIC ACCESS TO AUTOMATED EXTERNAL DEFIBRILLATORS (AEDs)
Public Access to Automated External Defibrillators (AEDs)
FACTS
Cardiac refers to the heart. Arrest means stop. Sudden cardiac arrest is the sudden and unexpected loss of heart function in a person.
Signs of cardiac arrest include: no breathing, no movement or response to initial rescue breaths, and no pulse.
In Canada, 35,000 to 45,000 people die of sudden cardiac arrest each year.1
An automated external defibrillator (AED) is a device containing sophisticated electronics used to identify cardiac rhythms, and to deliver a
shock to correct abnormal electrical activity in the heart. An AED will only advise the individual using the device to deliver a shock if the heart is
in a rhythm which can be corrected by defibrillation.
AEDs are safe, easy to use, and can be used effectively by trained medical and non-medical individuals. Trained responders have effectively used
AEDs in many public settings, including casinos, airport terminals, and airplanes.2-4 Trained laypersons can use AEDs safely and effectively. 5
An AED is an efficient and effective means of achieving rapid defibrillation in both the out-of-hospital and in-hospital setting.
Sudden cardiac arrest occurs with a frequency of roughly 1 per 1000 people 35 years of age or older per year.6
Any location that has 1000 adults over the age of 35 present per day during the normal business hours (7.5 hours/day, 5 days per week, 250 days
per year) can expect 1 incident of sudden cardiac arrest every 5 years.6
For every one minute delay in defibrillation, the survival rate of a cardiac arrest victim decreases by 7 to 10%. After more than 12 minutes of
ventricular fibrillation, the survival rate of adults is less than 5%.6
Currently there is evidence to support a recommendation to use AEDs for children over the age of 1, but not for children under the age of 1.
Across Canada, some provinces regulate the use of AEDs, while other provinces do not. Information about individual provincial regulations can be
obtained from the provincial Heart and Stroke Foundation offices.
RECOMMENDATIONS
The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada recommends that:
Canadians
Have widespread access to automated external defibrillators, particularly in locations which are at high risk for incidents of sudden cardiac
arrest (one can expect 1 sudden cardiac arrest per 1000 person-years).6
Be trained and encouraged to apply cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) and AED skills when needed.
Who are targeted responders be authorized, trained, equipped and directed to operate an AED if their responsibilities require them to respond to
persons in cardiac arrest.
Governments
Establish provincial regulations or legislation to ensure immunity of the overseeing physician and responders from liability, excluding gross
negligence or willful misconduct.
Training Agencies
Ensure that AED programs meet or exceed guidelines for AED and CPR training established by the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada (HSFC).
Consider the use of a medical director for Instructor or Instructor Trainer courses. A medical director may not be required for AED provider
courses.
Ensure that public facilities with a high likelihood of cardiac arrest incorporate AED programs into more comprehensive emergency response plans.
Ensure that early defibrillation programs operate within systems that:
integrate basic life support and/or advanced cardiac life support training with AED training, as appropriate;
integrate the provision of AEDs within the health care system and establish linkages with the EMS systems;
consider the response time of the local EMS system when acquiring and placing AEDs in a community and/or workplace;
place the program within the medical oversight of a physician and ensure immunity of the overseeing physician and responders from liability;
establish a system of quality assurance to include the review of all clinical events when an AED is used;
include a mechanism for data collection, evaluation, and reporting outcomes;
comply with accepted guidelines for training and retraining;
enhance public awareness of the role of early defibrillation in cardiac arrest; and
receive training from an accepted and recognized training agency.
Pre-hospital Planners and Providers
Advocate for strengthening the Chain of Survival™ and ensure access to AEDs by responders in all Canadian communities. In the future, efforts to
expand the use of AEDs by the general public may be warranted.
Plan for early defibrillation initiatives to be implemented within the community Chain of Survival™.
Include AED programs as part of comprehensive emergency response plans that are linked with the emergency medical services system, and implemented
within systems which provide transfer of care protocol, medical oversight, training, continual readiness, quality assurance, data collection, and
evaluation.
Follow provincial guidelines for physician oversight for AED programs where such guidelines have been established. Where no guidelines exist, a
physician should, at minimum, establish the AED protocol, review the conduct of each resuscitation attempt and make recommendations for improvement.
Physicians overseeing emergency medical services (EMS) programs are well placed to perform this review.
Hospitals
Examine policies and procedures for cardiac arrest and resuscitation to ensure that the time to defibrillation using AEDs within the hospital setting
is as short as possible. In settings where professionals trained in advanced cardiac life support are not immediately available (less than three
minutes from arrest to defibrillation), AED training should be provided as a basic skill for healthcare providers.
BACKGROUND
Arrhythmias (abnormal heart rhythms) such as ventricular fibrillation cause most sudden cardiac arrests. Early defibrillation is the intervention that
is most likely to improve survival rates. The time between the onset of cardiac arrest and the use of an AED is the major determinant for success of
the resuscitation attempt. While CPR helps to maintain circulation and ventilation in a victim of cardiac arrest for a short period of time, it is
unlikely to convert ventricular fibrillation to a normal heart rhythm. Restoring a normal heart rhythm requires defibrillation to be provided within a
few minutes of the arrest.
If an AED is immediately applied to a victim of cardiac arrest due to ventricular fibrillation, the likelihood of survival is high. Survival rates in
cardiac rehabilitation programs that provide defibrillation within the first few minutes after a cardiac arrest are higher than 85%.7 With each
passing minute from the time of the arrest, the probability of survival declines about 7% - 10%.6 Studies show that few patients survive if the time
from collapse to defibrillation is greater than 12 minutes.8,9 If CPR is performed from the time of collapse to the time the defibrillator arrives,
survival may be possible after a longer time interval. Therefore, the HSFC supports efforts to provide prompt defibrillation to victims of cardiac
arrest.
Defibrillation is a key link in the Chain of Survival™. The Chain of Survival™ consists of a series of four links that give the victim of a medical
emergency the best chance of living. These links are:
Early access to emergency care;
Early CPR;
Early defibrillation; and
Early advanced cardiac care;
All links in the Chain of Survival™ are important to reduce death and disability from heart disease and stroke.
The Chain of Survival™ is only as strong as its weakest link. The success of each link depends on the link immediately before and after. Recognizing
the warning signs of cardiac arrest and reacting by rapid notification of the EMS system (by calling 9-1-1 or other emergency response number), helps
to get the AED to the victim quickly and reduce delay to defibrillation.
Almost all clinical studies have shown that bystander CPR can help to improve survival rates. Bystander CPR is the best treatment that a cardiac
arrest patient can receive until a defibrillator and advanced medical care arrive.7 CPR training teaches Canadians how to recognize the signs of a
heart attack and cardiac arrest, how to react, and how to provide CPR until EMS arrive, shortening the time to defibrillation.
Early Defibrillation
Targeted Responders in the Community
HSFC recommends that targeted responders be authorized, trained, equipped, and directed to operate an AED safely and effectively. A targeted responder
is any person who, as a part of their job description as a professional primary health care provider or a professional first responder, has the duty
to respond to a medical emergency. Targeted responders may include any healthcare provider, or any first responder whose occupation or volunteer
activities demand proficiency in the knowledge and skills of basic life support (BLS).
Lay Responders
Lay responders in facilities with a high likelihood of a cardiac arrest event (1 every 2 years) can also be effective. The Public Access
Defibrillation (PAD) trial demonstrated a doubling of survival rates (from 15% to 30%) in facilities with high likelihood and with trained staff
always available.5
In-hospital
The concept of early defibrillation can be applied to the in-hospital resuscitation setting. The goal of early defibrillation in-hospital is a
collapse-to-shock interval of less than 3 minutes in all areas of the hospital and ambulatory care facilities.7 AED technology poses unique
opportunities for in-hospital resuscitation. Hospitals are encouraged to examine their policies and procedures for cardiac arrest and resuscitation to
determine if use of AEDs within the hospital setting could reduce time to defibrillation. In settings where professionals trained in advanced cardiac
life support are not immediately available, AED training should be provided as a basic skill for healthcare providers. AEDs should be made readily
available in strategic areas throughout hospitals to help reduce the time from collapse to defibrillation.
Unique Situations
Current data suggests that AEDs are an effective intervention for sudden cardiac arrest and may be an effective intervention in settings where there
is a high likelihood of cardiac arrest such as airports, casinos, commercial aircraft cabins and in other settings where large numbers of high-risk
adults may be located.2-6
Defibrillation is effective only if performed shortly after cardiac arrest. Urban and rural communities need to determine the degree to which they are
capable of getting an AED to a victim of cardiac arrest in time for resuscitation efforts to be effective, and consider placement of AEDs where the
chance of ambulance response is low, such as on ferries or airplanes.
Access to Defibrillation
HSFC encourages widespread access to AEDs in Canada. In some provinces, enabling legislation and regulatory changes may be required.
REFERENCES
Gardiner, Martin J., Leather, Richard and Teo, Koon, The Prevention of Sudden Death from Ventricular Arrythmia, Chapter 1, Epidemiology, Canadian
Cardiovascular Society, 1999.
Valenzuela TD, Roe DJ, Nichol G, et al. Outcomes of rapid defibrillation by security officers after cardiac arrest in casinos. New England Journal
of Medicine 2000;343:1206-1209.
O’Rourke MF, Donaldson E, Geddes JS. An airline cardiac arrest program. Circulation 1997;96:2849-2853.
Page Rl, Joglar JA, Kowal RC, et al. Use of automated external defibrillators by a US airline. New England Journal of Medicine 2000;343:1210-1216.
The Public Access Defibrillation Trial Investigators. Public-access defibrillation and survival after out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. New England
Journal of Medicine 2004;351(7):637-646).
Hazinski MF, Markenson D, Neish S. American Heart Association Scientific Statement: Response to cardiac arrest and selected life-threatening
medical emergencies. Circulation 2004;109:278-91.
Larsen MP, Eisenberg MS, Cummins RO, et al. Predicting survival from out-of-hospital cardiac arrest: a graphic model. Annals of Emergency Medicine
1993;22:1642-1658.
International Liaison Committee on Resuscitation (ILCOR). Guidelines 2000 for Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation and Emergency Cardiovascular Care.
Part 4: Automated External Defibrillator: Key link in the chain of survival. Circulation 2000;108(Suppl 2):I60-I76.
Cummins RO, Ornato JP, Thies WH, Pepe PE. Improving survival from sudden cardiac arrest: the “chain of survival” concept: as statement for health
professionals from the Advanced Cardiac Life Support Subcommittee and the Emergency Cardiac Care Committee of the American Heart Association.
Circulation 1991;83:1832-47.
Valenzuela TD, Roe DJ, Cretin S, Spaite DW, Larsen MP. Estimating effectiveness of cardiac arrest interventions: a logistic regression survival
model. Circulation 1997;96:3308-13.
The information contained in this position statement is current as of June 2008.
Click here to download the PDF version of this article.
Last updated October 2008.
When the way comes to an end, then change. Having changed, you pass through.
~ I-Ching
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
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This weekend is my training session for CPR and AED etc. so I should be able to speak more knowledgeably about this topic in a few days. This is a
very important personal topic for me and so I hope it continues to be discussed. Windgrrl, that just about covers it. I wonder what the symbol is
that is posted for the location of an AED?
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Ricardo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
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In BC Canada I was a school teacher,we were instructed on how to use a AED, We have one in the lobby of our school. Many malls have them.
No worry of court cases here. I think all small communities should have at least one.
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Ricardo
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Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
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Oh yeh I forgot to mention the PE progam teaches all the students on AED use as they have the demo models.
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
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I was a teacher in BC, small world. We also had one in our school but I really never would have known where to find it in an emergency. I would have
gone to the office and asked for help. The secretaries and special education workers were the go to people. Now I would like to carry one in my car.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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It is a heart with a lightning symbol in the middle | Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
This weekend is my training session for CPR and AED etc. so I should be able to speak more knowledgeably about this topic in a few days. This is a
very important personal topic for me and so I hope it continues to be discussed. Windgrrl, that just about covers it. I wonder what the symbol is
that is posted for the location of an AED? |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Getting U2U's from one individual saying I should rub elbows with the higher ups to avoid legal repercussions from using AED's. What's THAT all
about? You really think rubbing elbows with the higher ups will help? They want to know what's in it for them...I have never heard of a case where
it was a life or death situation and someone tried to save a life and got prosecuted in Mexico.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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I do. I did. And I saw them arrested. I also fought with the ministerio publico over it.
If the cops think there is money in it for them Ensenada Dr. and someone is dead, then you can bet your sweet patootie they are going to look. "Oh,
this person is a doctor. Well OK". Oh they used a machine, that person is dead? They are not a doctor?
Here's a little something to chew on...
We are all familiar with the “Good Samaritan Law”. This law protects you from becoming liable for helping in an emergency situation. The Good
Samaritan law allows you to give aid within your scope of expertise at a car accident or other disaster without being sued for any reason in the
performance of your aid. Mexico has no such law. You as a visitor or citizen can not give any aid at anytime or anyplace with out breaking the law.
The only organization able to perform emergency services outside of a hospital or medial clinic in Mexico is the Cruz Roja. Do not stop and help! Call
for help 065 or at lakeside 765-2308. You will be at risk of arrest, deportation or being financially responsible. To understand how this came about,
we must look at its history.
As early as 1898, the Spanish Red Cross approached the Mexican Government to inquire about the emergency services available in the Republic. At that
time, such services were provided by the Mexican Army. The Mexican President, Porfirio Diaz, had been a general, had strong ties to the Military, and
showed no interest in establishing a Mexican Red Cross. By 1907, however, the Mexican Army had fallen on hard times. Diaz, still President, had cut
back on its funds, producing inefficiency and dissatisfaction among career officers.
On August 2nd of that year Mexico recognized the Geneva Convention and on February 21, 1910, a presidential decree recognized the Red Cross, but made
it an auxiliary of the Army. In 1919, it was recognized by the International Red Cross and received a charter in 1923. Since then, the organization
has been prohibited from accepting any financial aid from any government agency. It is financed by private donations only. It also severed its ties
with the Army. Now, the Army gave up its role as the provider of day to day emergency care, shifting the burden to the Cruz Roja Mexicana. Thus, it
became the sole designated caregiver in situations normally handled and paid for by governments in most parts of the world.
Today, both the Mexican Red Cross and the Mexican National Health Service, IMSS, maintain hospitals in all major cities. Larger cities also run
Municipal Hospitals. However, the IMSS hospitals serve only those who work for companies that provide them with coverage. Those who are not covered by
their employers still must turn to either a Red Cross or Municipal Hospital for free care. By and large, emergency health care in big cities is good.
That is not the case in small towns and villages.
Those who live outside large municipalities and are unable to pay for private care, are totally dependant on the Red Cross to provide emergency care
and transport them to the nearest hospital that offers free service. The needs of the less affluent members of the community, who have non-emergency
medical problems, are handled in a free clinic that operates 6 days a week. It provides a consultation with a doctor and in most cases, free
medications are dispensed (Central Salud). The Delegation requests a donation after the services are rendered, but what is received seldom cover
costs. Fortunately, the Delegation has two auxiliary groups. The Cruz Roja International Volunteers, largely non-Mexican and the Damas of the Cruz
Roja, mostly Mexican ladies, run fund raising events that keep a monthly deficit under control, but just barely.
Again, it is sad but do not offer aid in an emergency unless you are willing to suffer the possible consequences. What you CAN do is to contribute to
the Cruz Roja on a regular basis. We have a great need for monthly and annual contributions as well as the support of the fund raising projects run
throughout the year.
Cruz Roja depends on YOU! Anyone wanting to contribute to any of these needs please contact Norm Pifer at 766-0616 or Charlie Klestadt at 766-3671.
You can, as always, find all our current information on our website at WWW.cruzrojalakeside.com
Remember the life you save may be your own.
Printed with permission of Cruz Roja. September 2009.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Then why does Bajamar, a very nice community owned by Mexicans, allow the security and the American residents there to have an AED on the premises. I
will go to the Ministerio Publico myself in a week or so and see what they say. And I will report back. | Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
I do. I did. And I saw them arrested. I also fought with the ministerio publico over it.
If the cops think there is money in it for them Ensenada Dr. and someone is dead, then you can bet your sweet patootie they are going to look. "Oh,
this person is a doctor. Well OK". Oh they used a machine, that person is dead? They are not a doctor?
Here's a little something to chew on...
We are all familiar with the “Good Samaritan Law”. This law protects you from becoming liable for helping in an emergency situation. The Good
Samaritan law allows you to give aid within your scope of expertise at a car accident or other disaster without being sued for any reason in the
performance of your aid. Mexico has no such law. You as a visitor or citizen can not give any aid at anytime or anyplace with out breaking the law.
The only organization able to perform emergency services outside of a hospital or medial clinic in Mexico is the Cruz Roja. Do not stop and help! Call
for help 065 or at lakeside 765-2308. You will be at risk of arrest, deportation or being financially responsible. To understand how this came about,
we must look at its history.
As early as 1898, the Spanish Red Cross approached the Mexican Government to inquire about the emergency services available in the Republic. At that
time, such services were provided by the Mexican Army. The Mexican President, Porfirio Diaz, had been a general, had strong ties to the Military, and
showed no interest in establishing a Mexican Red Cross. By 1907, however, the Mexican Army had fallen on hard times. Diaz, still President, had cut
back on its funds, producing inefficiency and dissatisfaction among career officers.
On August 2nd of that year Mexico recognized the Geneva Convention and on February 21, 1910, a presidential decree recognized the Red Cross, but made
it an auxiliary of the Army. In 1919, it was recognized by the International Red Cross and received a charter in 1923. Since then, the organization
has been prohibited from accepting any financial aid from any government agency. It is financed by private donations only. It also severed its ties
with the Army. Now, the Army gave up its role as the provider of day to day emergency care, shifting the burden to the Cruz Roja Mexicana. Thus, it
became the sole designated caregiver in situations normally handled and paid for by governments in most parts of the world.
Today, both the Mexican Red Cross and the Mexican National Health Service, IMSS, maintain hospitals in all major cities. Larger cities also run
Municipal Hospitals. However, the IMSS hospitals serve only those who work for companies that provide them with coverage. Those who are not covered by
their employers still must turn to either a Red Cross or Municipal Hospital for free care. By and large, emergency health care in big cities is good.
That is not the case in small towns and villages.
Those who live outside large municipalities and are unable to pay for private care, are totally dependant on the Red Cross to provide emergency care
and transport them to the nearest hospital that offers free service. The needs of the less affluent members of the community, who have non-emergency
medical problems, are handled in a free clinic that operates 6 days a week. It provides a consultation with a doctor and in most cases, free
medications are dispensed (Central Salud). The Delegation requests a donation after the services are rendered, but what is received seldom cover
costs. Fortunately, the Delegation has two auxiliary groups. The Cruz Roja International Volunteers, largely non-Mexican and the Damas of the Cruz
Roja, mostly Mexican ladies, run fund raising events that keep a monthly deficit under control, but just barely.
Again, it is sad but do not offer aid in an emergency unless you are willing to suffer the possible consequences. What you CAN do is to contribute to
the Cruz Roja on a regular basis. We have a great need for monthly and annual contributions as well as the support of the fund raising projects run
throughout the year.
Cruz Roja depends on YOU! Anyone wanting to contribute to any of these needs please contact Norm Pifer at 766-0616 or Charlie Klestadt at 766-3671.
You can, as always, find all our current information on our website at WWW.cruzrojalakeside.com
Remember the life you save may be your own.
Printed with permission of Cruz Roja. September 2009. |
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
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David, i kind of agree with you. I do feel vulnerable about the dos and don'ts in baja. Until a good number of the community is familiar with cpr
and aed and the clinic and police are informed and on board , iwould be reluctant to be seriously involved during an emergency situation. I just
feel incompetent and insecure in dealing with medical crisis.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Now you're talkin' Doc!
Ask the abogado if they will shield the devices from Sector Salud and COFEPRIS. You gotta get officials on your side. For a fact any medical device
"involved" in serious injury or death meaning the device was used and for whatever reason the patient did not fare well can come under the auspices of
COFEPRIS. They have intimate relations with SECGOB and the PGR. If COFEPRIS "hears" about an undocumented device it is considered a "Gran Delito".
COFEPRIS must not be allowed to hear about the device. The ministerio publico is the barrier. If no complaint (meaning a reference to a medical
"device: in a criminal complaint) is made, COFEPRIS is out of the picture (where they should be).
I realize this stuff is a genuine pain-in-the-ass to deal with, but the last thing anyone needs to hear is a good Samaritan tried their heart out to
save a life and is going to lose their house and everything they own because the ministerio publico is peeed-off because no one bothered to come to
the throne and bow before him.
COFEPRIS and SECTOR SALUD are impossible to deal with. I treat them like I treat a Cholla thicket.
This "checking with the ministerio publico BS" has to be done wherever a medical device is considered to be located. They may demand a list of
potential people qualified to use it and so forth. it is all horsepucky but the charge GRAN DELITO scares the crap out of me. Get a witness, get a
document (a copy of the list of qualified people is excellent). Ministerios can be as flaky as an croissant, so get proof. A serial number and model
number.
And you have my sincere thank you for offering to do this. And a promise of lunch or coffee or something.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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Given the number of people in Baja that do not have proper immigration status, I would think that focusing on expats would complicate the issue
anyway.
[Edited on 10-27-2012 by rts551]
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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What am I the only one here that can talk to the Ministerio Publico? Just have Doc do it all..honestly!!! OK then, you contact the Ministerio Publico
in Asuncion and everyone else go talk to them about AED's...and let's get a consensus...I could use a little assistance here. I personally think you
are taking this stuff way out of context (and who translated it by the way) but it may be that there are some things lost in the translation. I
certainly would want my BFF or BMF to use the darn thing on me if I could be saved. Then again, its too bad that someone would let a buddy die just
cause they were worried about repercussions. No, David, you are talkin'...you can at least pick up the phone get some names and numbers and let Shari
and others find out what the restrictions are...and everyone else in their pwn particular Baja community do the same. I guess I don't consider
legalities if I am trying to save a life. And like I said, the AED is for the general public, not something that has to be administered by a licensed
person. | Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Now you're talkin' Doc!
Ask the abogado if they will shield the devices from Sector Salud and COFEPRIS. You gotta get officials on your side. For a fact any medical device
"involved" in serious injury or death meaning the device was used and for whatever reason the patient did not fare well can come under the auspices of
COFEPRIS. They have intimate relations with SECGOB and the PGR. If COFEPRIS "hears" about an undocumented device it is considered a "Gran Delito".
COFEPRIS must not be allowed to hear about the device. The ministerio publico is the barrier. If no complaint (meaning a reference to a medical
"device: in a criminal complaint) is made, COFEPRIS is out of the picture (where they should be).
I realize this stuff is a genuine pain-in-the-ass to deal with, but the last thing anyone needs to hear is a good Samaritan tried their heart out to
save a life and is going to lose their house and everything they own because the ministerio publico is peeed-off because no one bothered to come to
the throne and bow before him.
COFEPRIS and SECTOR SALUD are impossible to deal with. I treat them like I treat a Cholla thicket.
This "checking with the ministerio publico BS" has to be done wherever a medical device is considered to be located. They may demand a list of
potential people qualified to use it and so forth. it is all horsepucky but the charge GRAN DELITO scares the crap out of me. Get a witness, get a
document (a copy of the list of qualified people is excellent). Ministerios can be as flaky as an croissant, so get proof. A serial number and model
number.
And you have my sincere thank you for offering to do this. And a promise of lunch or coffee or something. |
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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I doesn't got the M.D. after my name. I am not a licensed practitioner in Mexico in Mexico with a Sector Salud registration number, so the Ministerio
Publico would tend to YAWN if I posed the question. I am also bedridden. And I can assure you the minsterio publico is located in Santa Rosalia. About
the same distance as Santa Ana is located from Ensenada. And you can bet your bippie if a GRAN DELITO is involved, Bahia Asuncion would burn down the
phone line getting orders from Santa Rosalia or even La Paz.
But Ensenada would be just a tad different. Like 60 gallons of gasoline different.
And I am not making the recommendation to cause a GRAN DELITO without doing the homework to greatly lessen the chance of ending up eating green
tortillas and (?).
But now you know the reality of it all.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Yeah whatever. When I get down there in a week or so I will check it out. But like I said, It's not like practicing medicine without a license.
It's for use by the public.
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