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MitchMan
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Brilliant post, Bajaluna.
| Quote: | BajaLuna
Corporations are taking this country down the drain! Notice I didn't say the left or the right...because it is ALL of them! Including the most
liberal-owned Corporations too! |
Couldn't agree with you more. And, the reason it is "All" of them is because the economic problem in this country and others is "systemic". The
moneyed interests in this country have coopted our politics, hence legislation and policy that have allowed the imbalance in our economy to increase
to such an extent that we have the very few at the top enabled legally to taking the compensation, income, and wealth that should have equitably
flowed thru a balanced economic system to the people that do the work.
The stacked US Supreme Court has made things even fatally worse. Also, the paradigm of the Democrat party has even shifted to the right over the last
25 years which has abetted and even assisted the Conservative ideologies that are the foundation for the imbalance itself.
[Edited on 2-7-2014 by MitchMan]
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vgabndo
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Posts: 3461
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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People are on Food Stamps because the current government is ANTI-BUSINESS, ANTI-ENERGY.
That is just stunningly ignorant and undeniably false, and I guess because you don't engage in fact free political outbursts on the forum, you'll have
to delete post thirty-nine thousand one hundred and twenty-two also.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Ateo
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George W. Bush did his best to destroy our country. Ok, I'll get back on topic. What was the topic?
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Sandlefoot
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
George W. Bush did his best to destroy our country. Ok, I'll get back on topic. What was the topic? |
Mexican gas prices!!!!! we are still really close Ato!!!!!
 
Happy Trails
" Don't find fault, find a remedy; anyone can complain." Henry Ford
If you are not living on the edge...you are taking up to much space!
Just because it may not be a good idea does not mean it will not be fun!!!
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MitchMan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
People are on Food Stamps because the current government is ANTI-BUSINESS, ANTI-ENERGY. |
Wrong again, DavidK, wrong again, still. Please, do some reading.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
People want to be productive and honest, and not take from their neighbors what they need to live. |
If you are talking about the working class in general, I agree. But if you are talking about those certain "makers" such as certain heads of
industry, particularly in the financial industry and oil industry and the Conservative politicians that support them, I disagree with you. The
examples of such "makers" that have exhibited greed has been all over the news since 2008. Again, please do some reading.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
They also want America to not be slaves to fuel rich emirates when we have fantastic supplies of energy and safe methods of extracting it... to hold
us over until Star Trek technology finds a new energy source or we master cold fusion production. |
Funny you don't mention conservation and a promotion of alternative sources of energy. You do realize that those "fuel rich emirates" are exercising
pure unfettered unregulated capitalism by forming a cartel. Funny that you would call us "slaves" to them, but not characterize the working class
underpaid Americans as slave employees to big business (or small business, for that matter). See any weaknesses or flaws in your thinking yet,
DavidK?
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
People keeping more of what they earn grows the economy. People buy things, and that is what puts other people to work.
When people have less, they spend less, and fewer people benefit. |
That is the only and coherent and economically correct thing you have written so far with one enhancement needed: working people would have even more
to keep if they got their just compensation. Furthermore your statement correctly recognizes that more money in the hands of the "people" (working
people) grows the economy by buying things that puts people to work. You just described the workings of the demand side perspective of economics, a
principle that your buddies on the right disagree with. Your final sentence immediately above says it all. You've just summarized beautifully demand
side economics which is what your conservative buddies absolutely deny.
| Quote: | | Originally posted by David K My business flourished until about 2008, when liberal policies enacted by the new democrat congress majority,
elected in 2006, eliminated property investments, new home purchasing, and more. |
Well, you got it wrong again. You really do have to make a trip to the book store.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Can we get back to Baja now? |
Now you can get back to Baja, DavidK
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David K
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Mitch, I don't care... if you think I got anything political wrong. I am 56 years old and know what happened to me and America, as I lived it, raised
two kids as a single father, and dealt with a lot of issues. I have many contacts and friends in the home improvement industry and they ALL have been
affected by the democrat's actions from 2007+. So, I know it isn't 'personal' as to why business is down.
Just how much worse do you want America to become before you do something about it, instead of rewarding failure? If anyone needs a reality check, it
has to be people who think America is on the right track.
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Mitch, I don't care... if you think I got anything political wrong. I am 56 years old and know what happened to me and America, as I lived it, raised
two kids as a single father, and dealt with a lot of issues. I have many contacts and friends in the home improvement industry and they ALL have been
affected by the democrat's actions from 2007+. So, I know it isn't 'personal' as to why business is down.
Just how much worse do you want America to become before you do something about it, instead of rewarding failure? If anyone needs a reality check, it
has to be people who think America is on the right track. |
David, companies such as Lowes and Home Depot, also in home improvement have done outstanding since 2007 and before. Feel free to check out the
number of Home Depot here: http://www.stock-analysis-on.net/NYSE/Company/Home-Depot-Inc...
Why do you suppose Home Depot has done great and you have not? Could you make a living working at Home Depot? Could you make a living at WalMart for
that matter? David, it's been said plenty of times here and to you....big business controls the deck of cards.
When will you wake up and figure it out?
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MitchMan
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It is obvious that you don't care about getting the politics wrong. Your economics are just as wrong. In fact, while you did "live it", your and
your contacts and friends got it wrong too. THAT is the real problem with our economy, that is, people like you and your friends and contacts
habitually and persistently getting the economics and politics wrong.
That is why, beginning with Reagan, you and other voters like you kept voting in people that also got it wrong and it all culminated in the 2007/8
Great recession. Like I said to you before, look at all the stats beginning in 1970 on tax revenue, national debt and deficits, public household
debt, household real income/wages, household net worth, tax rate reduction effects, lack of will to implement anti trust law, net worth and income
disparity between the top and the rest of us (including you). There are plenty of graphs available so that you don't have to summarize the data
yourself. Once you see those trends, couple that with some macroeconomic basic principles and the conclusions/results/causes are unmistakable. Such
fact gathering will show you that your reasoning is absolutely faulty/wrong.
Above, you recited demand side economics beautifully, now put it together with the facts that are easily retrieved in minutes on the web and some
basic macroeconomics and you tell me what you conclude. If you need some guidance, study some basic economics and stop listening to those stupid
sound bites and talking points you keep reciting.
You have posted over 39,000 posts to this forum alone, don't tell me you don't have time to do some on point study. You owe it to yourself and you
have an obligation to us on this forum to actually know what you are talking about and not just make accusations and accept all those Conservative
talking points at face value.
The question to you, at this point, is just how much worse do YOU want America to become before you do something about it, invest some time in
yourself, and get yourself on the right track?
Just to entice you to do some research, you aught to ask yourself why you support demand side economics but still quote Conservative talking points
that are based on supply side economics? Explain that.
BajaBoy, point well made.
[Edited on 2-7-2014 by MitchMan]
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
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Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Zac, Home Depot is suffering, however Lowes is okay. If a business-friendly government was in the majority, both would be doing fantastic and so would
us private citizens not taking taxpayers' money.
The country is crashing and Obamacare is going to be a huge killer of jobs, as well. It was pushed upon us because of 30 million uninsured. Obama
numbers show that 10 years AFTER Obamacare there still will be 30 million + uninsured! That is insane...
Mitch, I am here because of my nearly 50 year love of Baja. I have the ability to assist people and to share things about Baja... and I do like coming
here for the enjoyment of exchange ideas and travel dreams with my amigos.
I am not here for political research and what I say on politics is personal from first hand life experience. It isn't from the DNC talking points
forum or conservative web sites (I don't read any).
When I read some outrageous comment about why something is that way, I tend to want to comment back (my bad). I ask again, we have beaten this up
enough (like the bike na-zi threads) that it goes nowhere and we all believe the same. |
David, the FACTS speak differently....Home Depot is making lots of money. Since 2009, their stock is up 224%: http://financials.morningstar.com/ratios/r.html?t=HD
Please, please, please...do us all a favor and do some research....
[Edited on 2-7-2014 by Bajaboy]
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Thanks Mitchman for your level headed and knowledgeable response.
As I questioned again why it is that conservatives seem to vote against their own self interest, and how this appears to apply to David, I Googled the
question and was rewarded with more than a page of responses by scores of people trying to get a handle on the same idea.
Conservative poor and middle class people, at least since Reagan, have consistently voted for policies which have financially devastated them in the
end. David says he doesn't care if he is on the wrong side politically, and I wonder if there may be some clue there as to why it is so easy for
conservatives to just not remember the 8 horrific years of GW Bush.
David, your bank account might look better if Reagan and Bush had been LESS business friendly with your money, and certainly the run-away
get-it-at-any-cost scramble for the last of the oil was made legal and exceedingly lucrative by the US energy policy secretly negotiated by Dick
Chaney and his oil buddies. Remember? Name any significant reversal of those energy friendly policies by this administration if you can. Washington
Democrats are pretty energy friendly when compared to rational leaders who would be paying attention to conservation and renewable resources
development.
Google: Pogo, enemy. 
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65087
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Perry: I never did so well, than when we had conservative leadership in Congress, and that doesn't mean Republican.
Zac: I do plenty of favors here, but only if Baja related.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Perry: I never did so well, than when we had conservative leadership in Congress, and that doesn't mean Republican.
Zac: I do plenty of favors here, but only if Baja related. |
David, so do you still stand by your claim that Home Depot is not doing well
I have no problems admitting when I am wrong. It happens quite often. You seem to just blow it off.....kind of reminds me of how Faux News handles
things
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LancairDriver
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The key to a thriving economy is a strong manufacturing base. This was apparent on the founding of the country over 200 years ago as the British tried
to keep the colonies out of the manufacturing business. All involved recognized the critical importance of this. The US went on to become the
powerhouse of the world based on its manufacturing strength, enabling the building of the country and winning of two world wars. Unfortunately,
through decisions shared by all administrations in the past 40 or 50 years, this capability has been allowed to be given away.( you can argue forever
assigning blame here)
Mexico is now in the process of getting their share of the manufacturing business and it is apparent in the rising standard of living for the skilled
worker.
When you have more tax dollar parasites than tax dollar producers, the only way to go is down. More need to be involved in creating wealth than
absorbing it. Just look around and see where you stand in this scenario to understand why the situation is becoming critical. We have passed the stage
where the next generation will automatically enjoy a higher standard of living.
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David K
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Posts: 65087
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Perry: I never did so well, than when we had conservative leadership in Congress, and that doesn't mean Republican.
Zac: I do plenty of favors here, but only if Baja related. |
David, so do you still stand by your claim that Home Depot is not doing well
I have no problems admitting when I am wrong. It happens quite often. You seem to just blow it off.....kind of reminds me of how Faux News handles
things |
No, my information source is from a Home Depot vendor I am friends with... not a web site.
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Mexitron
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
The key to a thriving economy is a strong manufacturing base. This was apparent on the founding of the country over 200 years ago as the British tried
to keep the colonies out of the manufacturing business. All involved recognized the critical importance of this. The US went on to become the
powerhouse of the world based on its manufacturing strength, enabling the building of the country and winning of two world wars. Unfortunately,
through decisions shared by all administrations in the past 40 or 50 years, this capability has been allowed to be given away.( you can argue forever
assigning blame here)
Mexico is now in the process of getting their share of the manufacturing business and it is apparent in the rising standard of living for the skilled
worker.
When you have more tax dollar parasites than tax dollar producers, the only way to go is down. More need to be involved in creating wealth than
absorbing it. Just look around and see where you stand in this scenario to understand why the situation is becoming critical. We have passed the stage
where the next generation will automatically enjoy a higher standard of living. |
Excellent point. I wonder how the 3D printing/manufacturing will affect this outflow of jobs---that is, we can make things here in our home or
business instead of China shipping it to us.
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SFandH
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Once you understand what's happening, it's clear why Mex gas prices are going up.
The prices are going up because Mexico is transitioning from a state owned oil monopoly to a market driven model. Recent changes to the constitution
allow for foreign investment in the oil industry that was not allowed before. Also, Mexico is decreasing the gasoline subsidy thereby allowing prices
to better reflect cost.
As stated in the article linked below.
Nonetheless, the oil monopoly remains a huge importer of gasoline and diesel fuel from the U.S., which it then sells at subsidized prices set by
the government, costing Pemex billions of dollars a year. The government has been increasing fuel prices each month with the goal of bringing them in
line with costs.
In other words, slowly removing the government monopoly and letting market forces control the price is hurting both citizens and travellers alike. But
especially the citizens who are paying a larger and larger share of their mostly meager income to fuel their cars and trucks to get to work.
Wall Street Journal
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Ateo
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Thanks for the link SFandH. Any way to post the article here? I don't subscribe to the Wall Street Journal. Oh wait......that would be you
subsidizing me in a way. Ha ha ha ha.
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SFandH
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From The Wall Street Journal
Pemex Raises Gasoline Production, Lowers Imports, on Refinery Upgrades
Company Said Gas Output Grew 5% From 2012 to 437,000 Barrels a Day
By LAURENCE ILIFF
Feb. 5, 2014 6:33 p.m. ET
MEXICO CITY—State-owned oil company Petróleos Mexicanos, or Pemex, is seeing the benefits of refinery upgrades through a notable increase in gasoline
production and a drop in imports that had shot up in recent years to around half of the nation's consumption.
Pemex said in a release Wednesday that gasoline output at its six refineries grew 5% last year from 2012 to 437,000 barrels a day on average.
The increased production, along with a decline in consumption, allowed the firm to reduce gasoline imports by 10% in 2013 to 359,000 barrels a day,
Pemex said. That put total imports at about 45% of consumption, compared with 52% of consumption in 2012.
A Pemex spokesman said a series of refinery upgrades over the last several years was behind the higher production of gasoline.
Diesel fuel also benefited from the upgrades, with production increasing by 5% last year versus 2012, and imports down 20% year-over-year, Pemex said.
Nonetheless, the oil monopoly remains a huge importer of gasoline and diesel fuel from the U.S., which it then sells at subsidized prices set
by the government, costing Pemex billions of dollars a year. The government has been increasing fuel prices each month with the goal of bringing them
in line with costs.
Pemex has plans to build its seventh refinery near an existing one in the central city of Tula, Hidalgo, but the project has seen constant delays
since it was announced in 2008, and some industry analysts think it may never be built given its $10 billion price tag.
Since the announcement of the second Tula refinery, a new government took office in December 2012, and an overhaul of energy laws in December now
allows private companies to build and operate refineries for the first time in 75 years, although the business isn't seen as attractive in the
short-term.
--------------------------------------
emphasis added
Stories about last year's changes to the Mex Constitution concerning the oil industry are all over Internet.
[Edited on 2-7-2014 by SFandH]
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
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Thanks SF&H. Interesting.
Wonder what the US energy market will look like in a few years, say if Mexico stops it's imports and successfully meets it's own needs from Mexican
sources?
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Perry: I never did so well, than when we had conservative leadership in Congress, and that doesn't mean Republican.
Zac: I do plenty of favors here, but only if Baja related. |
David, so do you still stand by your claim that Home Depot is not doing well
I have no problems admitting when I am wrong. It happens quite often. You seem to just blow it off.....kind of reminds me of how Faux News handles
things |
No, my information source is from a Home Depot vendor I am friends with... not a web site. |
Question: ...so do you still stand by your claim...
Answer: NO, my information source...
EXACTLY! No you don't stand by your claim, but rather than admit that you've been spouting BS, you simply cite your source. (An individual anecdotal
case of "someone you are friends with".
Here is what Home Depot says about their remarkable record of paying decades of uninterrupted dividends to their shareholders.
Now I'll admit that more than one person was likely involved in creating the reports that generated this bar graph, but I am of the opinion that
corporate dividend reports are generally more dependable than what I might expect of your "friend".
The folks who generated this report ARE business friendly, so I assume you'll give their data the credit it deserves.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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