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DianaT
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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 08:08 AM


DavidK

Just in case you missed this post, here it is again. Or did you just ignore it because you threw these statements out with no expert backing?

You said it like it was true, so surely you can back it up. It would be educational for all of us.

And yes, it has nothing to do with El Niño, but you decided to throw it out there, so please give us some facts.


Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Government control over our bodies is a big first step to a socialist dictatorship... "keep voting for 'us' if you want health care. The sad truth is now people have less care and are paying more for the less. The number of people without any health care is higher than before the 'affordable care act'.



Now surely you have some reliable links to some facts and statistics that backs up that claim?? Numbers, please

And since the ACA is private insurance based, please, a link as to how the government is gaining control over our bodies; unless it is the right wing legislatures in some states that are dictating to women what they can do with their bodies. (If you want, that one is EASY to back up. )

And since countries like Canada, Great Britain, Germany, and many, many more have government controlled heathcare, why have they not become Socialist Dictatorships? Surely there are some expert researchers involved in this question?

Who are these people you believe want a socialist dictatorship in the USA? And please be specific. Who?

Opinions are one thing, facts are another, so just back up your opinions with some facts, please so we can all be better informed.

You throw these statements around like they are factually based, or are they just your opinion?

[Edited on 4-20-2014 by DianaT]
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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 08:30 AM


Let's see- the glaciers retreated and the Ice Age ended over 10,000 yrs ago when the Mammoth died off. It's been said that 48% of Climatologists disagree with stated Global Warming causation.
Seems all this stuff happened before with man's intervention.
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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 08:42 AM
In case you missed Timmo1's disclaimer ...


I apologize, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2,
1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 90+ years
ago.




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 08:42 AM


" Government control over our bodies is a big first step to a socialist dictatorship... "keep voting for 'us' if you want health care. The sad truth is now people have less care and are paying more for the less. The number of people without any health care is higher than before the 'affordable care act'."

So I guess you consider all these countries to be "socialist dictatorships":


Country Start Date of Universal Health Care System Type

Norway 1912 Single Payer
New Zealand 1938 Two Tier
Japan 1938 Single Payer
Germany 1941 Insurance Mandate
Belgium 1945 Insurance Mandate
United Kingdom 1948 Single Payer
Kuwait 1950 Single Payer
Sweden 1955 Single Payer
Bahrain 1957 Single Payer
Brunei 1958 Single Payer
Canada 1966 Single Payer
Netherlands 1966 Two-Tier
Austria 1967 Insurance Mandate
United Arab Emirates 1971 Single Payer
Finland 1972 Single Payer
Slovenia 1972 Single Payer
Denmark 1973 Two-Tier
Luxembourg 1973 Insurance Mandate
France 1974 Two-Tier
Australia 1975 Two Tier
Ireland 1977 Two-Tier
Italy 1978 Single Payer
Portugal 1979 Single Payer
Cyprus 1980 Single Payer
Greece 1983 Insurance Mandate
Spain 1986 Single Payer
South Korea 1988 Insurance Mandate
Iceland 1990 Single Payer
Hong Kong 1993 Two-Tier
Singapore 1993 Two-Tier
Switzerland 1994 Insurance Mandate
Israel 1995 Two-Tier


[Edited on 4-20-2014 by monoloco]




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 08:53 AM


"I apologize, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2,
1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 90+ years
ago. "

This is information which was sent to the USA from the U S Consul to Norway copying the report of a GEOLOGIST, Dr. Adolf Hoel of the University of Christiania who was looking for coal deposits, and made some other observations. He reported that the fish he expected to find had been replaced by "shoals" of Herring and Smelt which like the warmer water. The whole piece also makes it clear that, according to Capt. Martin Ingebrigtsen, the whole region was hardly recognizable from his original observations in 1868. This kind of study can be seen as a ripple on the face of the tsunami of climate change.

In fact, the study of trapped atmosphere in bubbles in ancient ice have given us a very clear picture of climate change over the period of modern human occupation of the planet. I'd be interested in seeing any good science that counters the conclusion that CO2 in the atmosphere has spiked since the industrial revolution. (This is the hockey stick graph often used by climate scientists to illustrate the rapid rise in CO2 in our atmosphere.)

Another inconvenient truth is that 97% of internationally recognized climate scientists disagree with the personal opinion of David K, a regionally recognized residential irrigation contractor. These scientists have also PUBLISHED THEIR DATA and the international community of scientists have given it close scrutiny in an effort to find errors in the conclusions. You might notice, David, that none of them is making these claims based on their personal opinion.

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/changing-...




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 08:57 AM


What's the point of comparing environment predictions with those made 100 years ago. Surely we have learned something in 100 years. Surely our measurements have improved. 100 years ago Lindberg flew across the Atlantic using dead reckoning, the titanic couldn't 'see' an iceberg right in front of it, and Amelia Erhart couldn't spot an island in the Pacific to land on.

Surely our instruments, computers, and models have improved over these years?

[Edited on 4-20-2014 by Skipjack Joe]
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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 09:01 AM


BUT? How did the Thesaurus survive the Dinosaur extinction?



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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 09:03 AM


David K's documentation.


Not that it matter or that you will just say it is bunk, but here is an article on how the world is getting cooler in recent years and the ice cap is again growing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-C...

David, I invite you to be more cognizant of the sources of your "documentation". The 4th. Viscount of Rothermere, Harold Jonathan Esmond Vere Harmsworth, the editor of the Daily Mail, a National Inquirer style TABLOID inherited his multi-million Pound wealth, and is a well known arch conservative without much of a positive reputation as an honest journalist. Got anything from a legitimate scientist from a peer reviewed study?

And, what the blood hell does the ACA have to do with El Nino??? Just grasping for straws??




Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris

"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth

Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 09:16 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
" Government control over our bodies is a big first step to a socialist dictatorship... "keep voting for 'us' if you want health care. The sad truth is now people have less care and are paying more for the less. The number of people without any health care is higher than before the 'affordable care act'."

So I guess you consider all these countries to be "socialist dictatorships":


Country Start Date of Universal Health Care System Type

Norway 1912 Single Payer
New Zealand 1938 Two Tier
Japan 1938 Single Payer
Germany 1941 Insurance Mandate
Belgium 1945 Insurance Mandate
United Kingdom 1948 Single Payer
Kuwait 1950 Single Payer
Sweden 1955 Single Payer
Bahrain 1957 Single Payer
Brunei 1958 Single Payer
Canada 1966 Single Payer
Netherlands 1966 Two-Tier
Austria 1967 Insurance Mandate
United Arab Emirates 1971 Single Payer
Finland 1972 Single Payer
Slovenia 1972 Single Payer
Denmark 1973 Two-Tier
Luxembourg 1973 Insurance Mandate
France 1974 Two-Tier
Australia 1975 Two Tier
Ireland 1977 Two-Tier
Italy 1978 Single Payer
Portugal 1979 Single Payer
Cyprus 1980 Single Payer
Greece 1983 Insurance Mandate
Spain 1986 Single Payer
South Korea 1988 Insurance Mandate
Iceland 1990 Single Payer
Hong Kong 1993 Two-Tier
Singapore 1993 Two-Tier
Switzerland 1994 Insurance Mandate
Israel 1995 Two-Tier


[Edited on 4-20-2014 by monoloco]


You missed the part where I said "First Step"... ?:lol: Happy Easter!




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 09:27 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by LancairDriver




Your right Goat.These Koch brothers sure are a pair of tight Bastards who arent included in the humanitarian and altruistic group.

David H. Koch Charitable Foundation and Personal Philanthropy

Ultra-sensitive chip-based devices allow researchers at the
David H. Koch Institute for Integrative Cancer Research to
study changes in nanoparticles or living cells with a million
times greater precision than ever before. Diagnosed with
prostate cancer in 1993, Mr. Koch has given millions for
research to beat the disease.
Foundations & Philanthropy

Fred and Mary Koch Foundation
Koch Cultural Trust
Charles Koch Foundation
Charles Koch Institute
David H. Koch Charitable Foundation
& Personal Philanthropy

David H. Koch earned bachelor’s and master’s degrees in chemical engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He joined Koch Industries, Inc. in 1970 and today serves as an executive vice president and board member. As chairman and president of Koch Membrane Systems, Inc., his passion for water technology has led to clean water innovations that have been exhibited at the International Desalination Association World Congress. Koch Membrane Systems is part of Koch Chemical Technology Group, LLC, a subsidiary of Koch Industries, Inc.

A long-time philanthropist, Mr. Koch has given generously to a variety of organizations and programs. In his lifetime, he and the David H. Koch Charitable Foundation have pledged or contributed more than $1 billion to cancer research, medical centers, educational institutions, arts and cultural institutions, and to assist public policy organizations.
Medical & Cancer Research

A prostate cancer survivor, Mr. Koch has donated $100 million as prime contributor for the David H. Koch Institute for Integrative Cancer Research at MIT. Other support for medical and cancer research includes:

$100 million to NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital to help build the David H. Koch Center, a new ambulatory care center
$20 million to Johns Hopkins University for the David H. Koch Cancer Research Center
$30 million to the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York City
$25 million to the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston for the David H. Koch Center for Applied Research of Genitourinary Cancers
$15 million to New York-Presbyterian Hospital Weill Cornell Medical Center
$25 million to The Hospital for Special Surgery in New York City
$10 million to Jaffe Food Allergy Institute at the Mount Sinai Medical Center to create the David H. and Julia Koch Research Program in Food Allergy Therapeutics

In 2011, Mr. Koch received the Humanitarian of the Year award from the American Apparel and Footwear Association for his long-standing support of organizations working to find a cure for prostate cancer. The awards gala raised more than $1.1 million for the Prostate Cancer Foundation. In 2007, he was honored with the Double Helix Medal for Corporate Leadership from Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory for supporting research that, “improves the health of people everywhere.”


Mr. Koch was honored by the Smithsonian Institution in
2012 for his generous support, and presented with a piece of
Smithsonite by G. Wayne Clough (left), secretary of the
Smithsonian Institution.
Education & Science

Mr. Koch supports science-related projects including funding the long-running PBS documentary series, “Nova,” and a science and technology center at Deerfield Academy in Massachusetts.

A $35 million pledge to the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History will renovate the dinosaur hall, which will be named after him. Once renovated, the hall will showcase the museum's unrivaled collection of 46 million fossils and present the most up-to-date scientific research. His $15 million gift to the museum created the David H. Koch Hall of Human Origins that opened in 2010. The 15,000-square-foot exhibit helps answer the question, “What does it mean to be human?“

Other education and science-related support includes:

The Koch Biology Building and the David H. Koch School of Chemical Engineering Practice at MIT
A $20 million gift to the American Museum of Natural History, establishing the David H. Koch Dinosaur Wing
The Bill of Rights Institute, which educates students and teachers about our nation's Founding principles, including national sponsor of the 2009-2010 high school essay contest, “Being an American“

Arts & Culture

In 2013, the Metropolitan Museum of Art formally broke ground for the new David H. Koch Plaza. His $65 million gift will give the 140-year-old museum a beautiful outdoor setting with new fountains, landscaping and improved access, all designed with sustainability in mind.

Gifts from the David H. Koch Charitable Foundation have benefited the American Ballet Theater. In 2008, his foundation gave $100 million for the preservation and renovation of the State Theater of New York at Lincoln Center. Now known as the David H. Koch Theater, it is home to the New York City Ballet and New York City Opera.
Public Policy

A passionate believer in free societies, Mr. Koch has funded research and education programs that analyze how freedom creates prosperity and advances social progress. He serves on the boards of the Cato Institute, Reason Foundation and Americans for Prosperity Foundation.


....but since they are not Liberals they have to be very bad people :yes::yes:




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 09:32 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
David K's documentation.


Not that it matter or that you will just say it is bunk, but here is an article on how the world is getting cooler in recent years and the ice cap is again growing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-C...

David, I invite you to be more cognizant of the sources of your "documentation". The 4th. Viscount of Rothermere, Harold Jonathan Esmond Vere Harmsworth, the editor of the Daily Mail, a National Inquirer style TABLOID inherited his multi-million Pound wealth, and is a well known arch conservative without much of a positive reputation as an honest journalist. Got anything from a legitimate scientist from a peer reviewed study?

And, what the blood hell does the ACA have to do with El Nino??? Just grasping for straws??


You missed the part where I said it doesn't matter... Have a happy Easter Perry!




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 09:51 AM


I have been watching this thread, with tongue in cheek. One side is positive that global warming is real and man caused. The other side is positive that it is not real and a way for the government to extort more from the tax payers, businesses that product CO2, and all retail outlets that sell those products. When in reality, and if some one has documentation otherwise I need it, these meteorological scientist are paid whether (weather hehe) they call it correct or not! I think every one would like a job where they can be wrong 80% of the time and still keep that job! Every one here is treating all the information as infallible, when in reality it is only guessing. I know, at least I hope, these are "educated" guesses. But none the less only time will tell whose guess is closer! Every one needs to "agree to disagree" and get off their "I am right and you are wrong" soap box! After all, no one really knows the answer, regardless of documentation.


Happy Easter!!!

Happy Trails

PS... on edit: We all still need to do what we believe is in the best interest of the world we live in. Being responsible for our own beliefs is what makes this world exciting!!!!

[Edited on 4-20-2014 by Sandlefoot]




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 09:51 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Timo1
I got this in an email


The Washington Post

The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some
places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the
Commerce Department yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters, and explorers all point to a radical
change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the
Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been
met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.

Soundings to a depth of 3,100 metres showed the gulf stream still very warm.
Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the
report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely
disappeared.

Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast
shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north,
are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it
is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most
coastal cities uninhabitable.

* * * * * * * * *
I apologize, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2,
1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 90+ years
ago.


Great find... no surprise. Sensationalizing blips in the weather/ climate sells papers... and 80-90 years later the same thing makes out-of-work vice presidents richer. The leftist loving media jumps to the aid of the idiotic things to support their guys.

If Dan Quayle had said the EXACT same thing as Al Gore about Global Warming, the media would have a field day and actually use the facts to rip him apart... as they did when he corrected the spelling of potato to a school kid. :rolleyes:




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 09:57 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Sandlefoot
I have been watching this thread, with tongue in cheek. One side is positive that global warming is real and man caused. The other side is positive that it is not real and a way for the government to extort more from the tax payers, businesses that product CO2, and all retail outlets that sell those products. When in reality, and if some one has documentation otherwise I need it, these meteorological scientist are paid whether (weather hehe) they call it correct or not! I think every one would like a job where they can be wrong 80% of the time and still keep that job! Every one here is treating all the information as infallible, when in reality it is only guessing. I know, at least I hope, these are "educated" guesses. But none the less only time will tell whose guess is closer! Every one needs to "agree to disagree" and get off their "I am right and you are wrong" soap box! After all, no one really knows the answer, regardless of documentation.


Happy Easter!!!

Happy Trails


Thank you and happy Easter to you too.

To be clear, I never said it is not real... I said it doesn't matter because the climate will change no matter what man does or doesn't do, as it has for millions of years. In fact I agree that the climate is changing... and it is normal and natural for it to change. If you can control sun spots and volcanic eruptions then you might be able to control the climate... of course if you could do those things, then you might be worshiped in a church?




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 10:13 AM


OK David, I guess if it doesn't matter to you, the rest of the planet can also go along in the same blissful ignorance.
Your Holy Day wishes are misplaced. But, if you haven't got it by now; I don't believe in zombies rising from the dead to threaten the existence of humankind. I also give no intellectual weight to the myth of Ishtar from which the Bronze Age myth of Easter was appropriated. It just has never occurred to me to give much credence to the "value" of a purported human sacrifice by people who couldn't get it together to invent a wheelbarrow. (or a written language)

So, happy 4/20/2014 BCE. Most folks agree that this is the 20th. of April and I find no reason to disagree. Right?




Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris

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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 10:30 AM


Perry,

We all know you're an atheist why must you beat that drum so much? Do you tell your new Mexican neighbors how ignorant you think their religious beliefs are?

Rant over.

Peace out



Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
OK David, I guess if it doesn't matter to you, the rest of the planet can also go along in the same blissful ignorance.
Your Holy Day wishes are misplaced. But, if you haven't got it by now; I don't believe in zombies rising from the dead to threaten the existence of humankind. I also give no intellectual weight to the myth of Ishtar from which the Bronze Age myth of Easter was appropriated. It just has never occurred to me to give much credence to the "value" of a purported human sacrifice by people who couldn't get it together to invent a wheelbarrow. (or a written language)

So, happy 4/20/2014 BCE. Most folks agree that this is the 20th. of April and I find no reason to disagree. Right?
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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 10:46 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
So, happy 4/20/2014 BCE. Most folks agree that this is the 20th. of April and I find no reason to disagree. Right?


my buddy's B-Day today. he is happy it is 420, if you know what i mean?

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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 11:23 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by chuckie

BUT? How did the Thesaurus survive the Dinosaur extinction?



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Love it !!!

What a knee slapper !!!!!
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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 11:35 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by Sandlefoot
I have been watching this thread, with tongue in cheek. One side is positive that global warming is real and man caused. The other side is positive that it is not real and a way for the government to extort more from the tax payers, businesses that product CO2, and all retail outlets that sell those products. When in reality, and if some one has documentation otherwise I need it, these meteorological scientist are paid whether (weather hehe) they call it correct or not! I think every one would like a job where they can be wrong 80% of the time and still keep that job! Every one here is treating all the information as infallible, when in reality it is only guessing. I know, at least I hope, these are "educated" guesses. But none the less only time will tell whose guess is closer! Every one needs to "agree to disagree" and get off their "I am right and you are wrong" soap box! After all, no one really knows the answer, regardless of documentation.


Happy Easter!!!

Happy Trails


Thank you and happy Easter to you too.

To be clear, I never said it is not real... I said it doesn't matter because the climate will change no matter what man does or doesn't do, as it has for millions of years. In fact I agree that the climate is changing... and it is normal and natural for it to change. If you can control sun spots and volcanic eruptions then you might be able to control the climate... of course if you could do those things, then you might be worshiped in a church?


It doesn't matter what man does? Are you for real? So you're suggesting it's okay to dump toxic sludge into the rivers and all will be well? I'm guessing pollution measures are a waste of time and money as well.

Please clarify?!




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[*] posted on 4-20-2014 at 11:36 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
DavidK

Just in case you missed this post, here it is again. Or did you just ignore it because you threw these statements out with no expert backing?

You said it like it was true, so surely you can back it up. It would be educational for all of us.

And yes, it has nothing to do with El Niño, but you decided to throw it out there, so please give us some facts.


Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Government control over our bodies is a big first step to a socialist dictatorship... "keep voting for 'us' if you want health care. The sad truth is now people have less care and are paying more for the less. The number of people without any health care is higher than before the 'affordable care act'.



Now surely you have some reliable links to some facts and statistics that backs up that claim?? Numbers, please

And since the ACA is private insurance based, please, a link as to how the government is gaining control over our bodies; unless it is the right wing legislatures in some states that are dictating to women what they can do with their bodies. (If you want, that one is EASY to back up. )

And since countries like Canada, Great Britain, Germany, and many, many more have government controlled heathcare, why have they not become Socialist Dictatorships? Surely there are some expert researchers involved in this question?

Who are these people you believe want a socialist dictatorship in the USA? And please be specific. Who?

Opinions are one thing, facts are another, so just back up your opinions with some facts, please so we can all be better informed.

You throw these statements around like they are factually based, or are they just your opinion?

[Edited on 4-20-2014 by DianaT]


Obviously, if you don't see the data as factual you will call it opinion. I know people who lost their health insurance that they liked, despite what this president promised everyone ("If you like your health care, you can keep it"). Even the presidents people have said in the reports that there still will be uninsured Americans after Obama care is in place... if you look at their numbers, they are greater than before Obama care! What was the point of this chaos?

As for why the side bar: I threw it in there to offer some balance with the repeated times that conservative people in America are trashed on this web site, such as in the signatures of some which makes every one of their posts 'political' and not Baja related.

Happy Easter DianaT


Where can I find those numbers? Chaos, no, just wanting to learn. What data? How can one decide if it is factual or not unless one can see the data that supports your claim. I can't find it. Your attempt to say this is "chaos" is simply begging the question and I suspect it is because you don't have reliable data.

I know that now my self-employed sons and families are now able to have affordable health care, but that does not say that the entire program is great. Can't base everything on one or two people.

And yes, not everyone is covered, especially the ones who slipped through the system when some governors refused the medicaid assistance.

But David, you made some very strong claims as if the are fact, and if you can not back them up with actual data, then they are strictly opinions. You chose to put it out there as factual---- data, please.

Now, IMHO, and you notice I say opinion, the ACA is here to stay and that is a good thing--- except, IMHO, it needs to go further and lead to a single payer program. No facts, no data, just opinion.


As far as climate change, I am no expert, but I tend to believe in science and the experts in that field. Just look at the list of real scientific organizations who believe it is real and human activity is definitely involved.

97% of Scientists

Do you seriously believe that ALL of these agencies and scientist have some hidden money making political agenda? If so, please elaborate as to the specifics of that agenda.


The pagan holiday of Easter is a good one for those of us who are pantheists.


[Edited on 4-20-2014 by DianaT]
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