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Barry A.
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Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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88----
count me on the "anti-grafitti" side of the ledger. Folks who leave their "sign" are totally selfish, in my opinion. It shows a total lack of respect
for anybody, and anything. Have you not noticed the fines (in CA) for doing this type of stuff? The vast majority are offended by grafitti!!!!
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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barry...
it is nice to know that you are against graffiti but it really means very little to me...i am neither for or against as i do not feel the need to take
up sides on such an absurd issue...if someone painted some obscenity on my house i suppose i would be somewhat disturbed...but when driving through
the baja desert and i see someones name painted on a rock i do not feel the need to take up arms...but if it would make you guys feel better i could
pretend that it really peees me off....anything to make a fellow nomad feel at ease
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Sharksbaja
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Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by eetdrt88
it is nice to know that you are against graffiti but it really means very little to me...i am neither for or against as i do not feel the need to take
up sides on such an absurd issue...if someone painted some obscenity on my house i suppose i would be somewhat disturbed...but when driving through
the baja desert and i see someones name painted on a rock i do not feel the need to take up arms...but if it would make you guys feel better i could
pretend that it really peees me off....anything to make a fellow nomad feel at ease |
So you have no qualms that fellow Americans look/act like
trash. So why my friend did you go on so much on something that meant nothing to you. Obviously if the crew did not crap on your yard but your
neighbors, you would care not there either. Hellooooooo neighbor!
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eetdrt88
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Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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you are correct...
i have no qualms about that,they do not represent me and i do not represent them....most of the locals i have met in baja are smart enough to figure
out what i'm doing in baja,which has nothing to do with defacing their public property....sounds like sharkbait has a little guilty conscience
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jrbaja
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Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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At least it's not posting
as anonymous.
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Sharksbaja
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Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by eetdrt88
i have no qualms about that,they do not represent me and i do not represent them....most of the locals i have met in baja are smart enough to figure
out what i'm doing in baja,which has nothing to do with defacing their public property....sounds like sharkbait has a little guilty conscience |
not hardly
I didn't mean my neighbor, I meant yours
It matters to me how my neighbors house looks but it's not my biz. unless they
mistakenly make it my biz.
My neighbor... he's a local..... here, but I wouldn't represent him that's for sure. I we have plenty of good ones also.
Actually it's the other way around for me. My neighbor tried to log off my property without a current survey. He sent his logging buddies in to start
clearcutting. I stopped them. But the area he did log belonged to Georgia Pacific. Their lawyers contacted me later. To his dismay, when I comissioned
a new survey, lo and behold, my property extends way beyond his markers. In fact I now enjoy owning a big chunk of his yard and stream. Must be his
bad karma.
I certainly do care what jerks do in our neck of the woods.
Whether or not it's public land. Just because GP is a private corp shouldn't give it license to marshall it's own clearcuts. But it does anyway. They
own thousands of acres. It's scary.
A line has to be drawn somewhere.
Next thing you know we'll be called "Rock Huggers"
[Edited on 7-15-2005 by Sharksbaja]
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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88----------
Maybe you are just not thinking about the implications of graffiti------I certainly can agree with you that "grafitti" itself is rather absurd as an
issue, but it is what it represents that bothers me. It is like litter----To keep it simple, I do not understand why people would want to trash the
environment of other folks, and graffiti/litter is just that. What graffiti and litter implies, at least to me, is something ominous, something that
does bother me a lot----namely that these violators just don't give a damn about other folks, or the land--either in this country, or in Mexico, or
probably anywhere---- AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY DON'T!!!! That is worriesome!!!
People that litter and paint graffiti are "part of the problem--not part of the solution". Does this make any sense??
Sharks also makes some really good points.
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
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Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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you guys have to understand...
i live in southern california,a place that prides itself on its squeaky clean image and the town i live in is a shining example of this...which in a
way is good i guess but can be a little cumbersome for a guy like me that grew up in very rural areas...so when i venture south and i see a little
graffiti and some litter on the highway,i know i definitely have left my neighborhood which gets me all giddy and excited...but to be honest i prefer
pristine places that are untouched by man in any way...so in a way i actually agree with you guys that people should use common sense and not mar up
the beauty of untouched nature....maybe save the graffiti for downtown L.A.
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jrbaja
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Is this really David posting
Or, would you make up your mind!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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88-----
Great response!!!!! In all seriousness, I understand much better now, at least where you are coming from. Thanks. I am still a
little uncomfortable with it, but at least it makes more sense to me, now. Barry
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jrbaja
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Laguna Beach
The real O.C.
Who wants to do tagging when it just says Lost or Billabong
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eetdrt88
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Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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what???
| Quote: | Originally posted by jrbaja
Who wants to do tagging when it just says Lost or Billabong |
not really understanding that one...
[Edited on 7-15-2005 by eetdrt88]
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Sharksbaja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by eetdrt88
| Quote: | Originally posted by jrbaja
Who wants to do tagging when it just says Lost or Billabong |
not really understanding that one...
[Edited on 7-15-2005 by eetdrt88] |
You do
mean O.C. right, not Beverly Hills
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TMW
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Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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JR, I sent you a U2U concerning BFG. Please let me know if you did not get it. Thanks.
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bigzaggin
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Registered: 5-27-2004
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Mood: way too ites
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Just an alternate perspective...
in certain parts of the world, namely inner-cities and all that, graffiti is the lone creative outputs for angst-y kids, some of whom eventually
graduate into actual art careers, many into commercial/graphic design. It's not unlike hip-hop, born out of necessity to express and the desire to
transcend urban anonymity. Agree or disagree, some of the "bombs" you see in NYC, LA, Rio, Tokyo are undeniably the work of true artists, however
"illegal" their work. In fact, right here in Venice there's actually "legal" grafitti walls down by the beach - a sign that the city acknowlegdes it
is a legit form of expression.
As for Baja, the three places that spring to mind for me at the painted rocks (aka "frog rocks") above Ensenada, the rock murals outside of Valle
Trinidad and the tagged rocks in the "boulder field," and while I'd concede that 100 years ago, they'd have all looked better "blank," as the
inevitable byproduct of a bored and isolated Baja kids, I think they add some color?and some of the skulls near Trinidad are just plain cool.
So love it or loathe and reserve the right to kick in the head of anyone who tags your garage, but don?t think it?s ?defeatable,? remember your own
angst-y teens (who among didn?t wantonly vandalize SOMETHING?) and at least appreciate the gift some of these vandals have.
It?s a tricky issue for sure?
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jrbaja
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The difference between
the inner city teens is that they couldn't afford to transport their paints to any of the national parks.
And, although Catavi?a is a posted and protected "National Park", I consider the entire peninsula in the same catagory. It is a very small and
unique spot on the planet and I think that every measure should be taken to preserve as much of it as possible. This starts with education.
Chances are that some of those folks in the 5000 homes at Loreto Bay will have taggers in their midst. There are already laws and penalties set up
for these crimes. The Mexican people who live in these areas don't like it and they are willing to do something about it.
With a little support from the northern neighbors, (those of us who use this peninsula) something can be done to protect this environment.
Seriously.
Something tells me that even those on here that say they don't mind graffitti would probably feel differently if "Eat at Joe's" was spray painted on
all the unique features of the national parks up there.
When this was a topic before, I think someone posted the penalties for tagging in Mexico.
[Edited on 7/16/2005 by jrbaja]
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Sharksbaja
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Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
JR, I sent you a U2U concerning BFG. Please let me know if you did not get it. Thanks. |
same here JR
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lindsay
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Registered: 9-9-2003
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When I was reading this post and some other ones recently about respecting Baja California's natural areas, I also thought about something the
grandpa of one of my Mulege students said to me. He was a very kind and soft-spoken man who would from time to time walk up the 100+ stairs that snake
up the hillside to the museum. In the shade of the trees at the top of the museum, he would share stories about the musuem's prison history and he
would also bring pieces of palm frongs up to the building and skillfully weave "palomas de palma" for our enjoyment with his dark, leathery hands.
While making the palomas, he would sometimes comment on the museum and how it was valuable for his grand-daughter to be a guide so she could share
the region's history with visitors, not just the tourists he said, but the locals as well. One day, he added that sometimes people don't see the big
picture about the world around them. I asked him what he meant and he said that some gringos complain about the Mexicans' way of life and how they
live in their environment and the Mexicans complain about what the gringos do and it goes around and around. He said sometimes people get it right
and listen to each other. Then, he told me something that I thought was really meaningful. He said around the world, people in every country use
their nationality to claim ownership to nature and the right to do as they please or justify that they know best because it's "their country". He
then added that he watched a show on TV and saw what planet earth looked like from space. He said when you see the planet from space, you can't see
any of the lines on the map showing where one country starts and another begins, it's just one mass of water and land. He smiled and told me, we are
just part of that whole mix and too bad we can't see that we really own nothing whether we come from Mexico, the U.S. or any other country.
I thought this grandpa was one wise man and I still think about his words and I look forward to seeing him whenever I visit Mulege. How to translate
his message into action is hard but I try to remember that I own nothing from nature and I'm just part of the mix....
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jrbaja
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Sharks,
I did get it so I did not reply. And, I sent the pic. to the address TW sent me. Have you been talking to TW and is Bob the same guy you talked to?
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jrbaja
I did get it so I did not reply. And, I sent the pic. to the address TW sent me. Have you been talking to TW and is Bob the same guy you talked to?
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Negative, I am going after the marketing director and consumer division V.P.
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