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Bajahowodd
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I really have a problem with people who dismiss climate change, and do not realize that the continuing worldwide population growth coupled with the
steadily increasing carbon emissions are ruining the air that we breathe.
Asthma incidence is way up over 50 years ago.
I realize that we are not able to currently control the carbon emissions of emerging economies, such as China and India, but shouldn't we at least do
our part here, and deal with the others down the road?
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wessongroup
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Polar Bears Seen Eating Dolphins For The First Time As Seal Habitat Melts Away
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/polar-bears-eat-dol...
1.5 mm = 0.0590551 inches annual or over the past 50 years is equal to 2.952755 inches increase globally .. close enough for horse shoes
I don’t think most could discern a 0.0590551 inch rise in one year nor in 50 years with the naked eye … as it isn’t all that much … but, taken as a
whole for the entire oceans of the planet … that rise IS "significant" ..as the earth oceans cover roughly 70% of the planet
And of that .. 2.5% is fresh water … the rest is Ocean
http://phys.org/news/2015-01-sea-larger-thought.html
and btw .. ice melt at the poles is effecting our "gravity" ... too 
Better hang on .. 
[Edited on 6-14-2015 by wessongroup]
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mtgoat666
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Why Conservative White Males Are More Likely to Be Climate Skeptics
Sociologists attempt to pin down what causes some to question the science behind global warming
By Julia Pyper and ClimateWire | October 5, 2011
U.S. Senate Committee on Environmental and Public Works
When it comes to climate change denial, not all human beings are created equal. As a recent study shows, conservative white males are less likely to
believe in climate change.
"It's not surprising," said Aaron McCright, sociology professor at Michigan State University, who is a white male himself. But anecdotal evidence is
not scientific, he said. "You really don't know what's going on until you crunch the numbers and find out."
Besides the trend amongst skeptics, the study also found that conservative white men who self-report a high understanding of global warming -- dubbed
"confident" conservative males -- are even more likely to express climate change denial.
McCright's study, "Cool dudes: The denial of climate change among conservative white males in the United States," was published online in July and
printed in the October 2011 issue of Global Environmental Change, which ranks first out of 77 journals on environmental studies.
The study has created somewhat of a buzz, said Riley Dunlap, co-author and professor of sociology at Oklahoma State University. The paper was well
received in academic circles, but he admitted he was concerned about a backlash from the conservative movement. While there have not been any major
outcries, the study appears to have raised a few temperatures in Chicago.
"This paper is a transparent effort to take the focus off the actual scientific debate and instead engage in race baiting, class baiting and other
sociological devices to win a science argument," said James Taylor, senior fellow for environment policy at the Chicago-based Heartland Institute.
But from McCright's perspective it was important to find out to what extent the sharp debate over climate change at the elite level had trickled down
into the general public in recent decades. "Within the ranks of elites, climate change denialists are overwhelmingly conservative white males," reads
the report, pointing to figures like talk show host Rush Limbaugh and Marshall Institute CEO, William O'Keefe. "Does a similar pattern exist in the
American public?"
'Cool Dudes,' a bloc that stands out in the crowd
McCright and Dunlap's analysis used polling data on climate change denial from 10 Gallup surveys from 2001 to 2010. According to the U.S. Census
Bureau, 72.4 percent of the American population reported as white in 2010, and 77.1 percent in the year 2000. This majority made it difficult to draw
conclusions about the relationship between other races and climate change, said McCright, because the Gallup survey sample size was so small.
To test for the trend amongst conservative white males, the researchers compared the demographic to "all other adults." Results showed, for instance,
that 29.6 percent of conservative white males believe the effects of global warming will never happen, versus 7.4 percent of other adults. In holding
for "confident" conservative white males, the study showed 48.4 percent believe global warming won't happen, versus 8.6 percent of other adults.
As a point of comparison, McCright also tested the beliefs of conservative white females. He found 14.9 percent believe the effects of global warming
will never happen to 29.6 percent of their male counterparts. McCright said the finding is due more to the women's political stance than their gender
or race. The data on conservative white females was not published in the "Cool dudes" study.
To understand why there is a trend amongst conservative white males, the Gallup data was cross-examined with research about the "white male effect" --
the idea that white males were either more accepting of risk or less risk averse than the rest of the public.
The white male effect could stem from the notion that, historically, white males have faced fewer obstacles in life, said McCright. But another school
of thought sees the adoption of risk tied to personal values. "It has to do with their identity as an in-group," he said. "Something that would
challenge the status quo is something [conservative white males] want to shun."
Climate change, a challenge to identity?
According to the literature on "identity protective cognition," people believe messages coming from the people they identify with most and ignore
messages that are contrarian, Dunlap said. While all groups have a tendency to do this, he said, in the case the climate change, conservative white
males are especially likely to exhibit this self-protecting characteristic.
McCright says, up to 40 percent of all white males in the study sample believe in hierarchy, are more trusting of authority and are more conservative.
Conservative white males' motivation to ignore a certain risk -- the risk of climate change in this case -- therefore, has to do with defending the
status of their identity tied to the white male establishment.
This result is bolstered by the Yale University "Global Warming's Six Americas" report for May. The study found that none of the "dismissive" group --
those who don't think the climate is changing or want legislation -- believe global warming will harm the United States in 50 years. The dismissive
group also skews male and conservative, said "Six Americas" co-author, Edward Maibach, director of the George Mason University Center for Climate
Change Communication.
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bonanza bucko
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OK, Suppose that we accept "global warming" as a threat at sometime in the future.
What do you want us to do? Please be specific; give us a list of actions we must take now.
BB
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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by bonanza bucko  | OK, Suppose that we accept "global warming" as a threat at sometime in the future.
What do you want us to do? Please be specific; give us a list of actions we must take now.
BB |
Pretty simple and easy: stop polluting so much.
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David K
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Hilarious answer. Compared to who/what/where? What is too much?
The United States has been amazing at cleaning up messes and being cleaner than others. How do you stop other countries from polluting 'so much'?
When a volcano erupts, how do you stop its 'pollution'?
What about animal farts?
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bonanza bucko
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OK..."stop polluting so much:" What actions and public policies must we take now to do that? Please be specific; example: outlaw the internal
combustion engine and when to do that? Outlaw air conditioning, when and where exactly? etc. etc.
We are anxious to understand how we can prevent the disasters you anticipate because of "global warming and/or climate change." We want to help but
we need to understand what it is you want us to do and when to do that.
BB
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DaliDali
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| Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup |
I don’t think most could discern a 0.0590551 inch rise in one year nor in 50 years with the naked eye …
[Edited on 6-14-2015 by wessongroup] |
Yet there is some boy who swears the cliffs and bluffs in Asuncion are eroding away with the rising sea level, as seen by his naked eye.
Never mind the action of the relentless NW winds, hurricanes, tropical storms and the torrential rainfall, courtesy of those same storms.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by bonanza bucko | OK..."stop polluting so much:" What actions and public policies must we take now to do that? Please be specific; example: outlaw the internal
combustion engine and when to do that? Outlaw air conditioning, when and where exactly? etc. etc.
We are anxious to understand how we can prevent the disasters you anticipate because of "global warming and/or climate change." We want to help but
we need to understand what it is you want us to do and when to do that.
BB |
The solutions will come about when sane minds engage in reasoned debate and reach concensus. Nothing will happen as long as certain factions persist
in ridiculously denying the problem exists, and debate the problem by accusing scientists of lying.
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mtgoat666
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Are you asking about your own farts? Or are you asking about your cat's farts?
Not to change the topic too much, but you should google obesity and climate change,... Interesting how obese people consume extra amounts of food,
causing their own increased carbon footprint. Food for thought, so to speak
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DaliDali
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by bonanza bucko | OK..."stop polluting so much:" What actions and public policies must we take now to do that? Please be specific; example: outlaw the internal
combustion engine and when to do that? Outlaw air conditioning, when and where exactly? etc. etc.
We are anxious to understand how we can prevent the disasters you anticipate because of "global warming and/or climate change." We want to help but
we need to understand what it is you want us to do and when to do that.
BB |
The solutions will come about when sane minds engage in reasoned debate and reach concensus. Nothing will happen as long as certain factions persist
in ridiculously denying the problem exists, and debate the problem by accusing scientists of lying. |
Pretty much cuts you out.....a sane mind.
You don't want reasoned debate....you want it YOUR way or the highway.... no matter the unintended consequences.
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chuckie
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OK, I quit polluting.....solves that problem, eh?
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MrBillM
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The Upside to Internet Climate Debate
All of this written rather than spoken debate avoids the generation of massive amounts of expelled Hot Air.
Other than that (and the feelgood factor for mostly Liberals), it doesn't do anything to change the situation.
Which can be good or bad depending on your view of the actual situation and its possible remedies.
Ultimately, the BEST solution is......................
"Don't Worry. Be Happy" !
Live life as you please. Use what you wish and hope that the supply (of Water, Gasoline, Heineken and other important necessities) outlasts your
life. The amazing wonders of developing technology will enable coming generations to cope with the challenges.
Right ?
IF the Eco-Nuts are right, we'll have plenty of advance notice when Bangladesh (and other societies on the edge)
disintegrate.
THEN, we can worry.
Or NOT, considering that those marginal societies disappearing will relieve a degree of population stress on the planet and, perhaps, their departure
will strike a balance or act as a positive.
"In the meantime, in between times, ain't we got fun" ?
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wessongroup
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| Quote: Originally posted by bonanza bucko | OK, Suppose that we accept "global warming" as a threat at sometime in the future.
What do you want us to do? Please be specific; give us a list of actions we must take now.
BB |
This is about the only really big "specific" actions which is being set in place, at this time here in the U.S. ... and the big reason "coal" is a bit
upset ... There are others, higher mileage, use less, recycle .. but, reduction of coal use is a big one
"Cut carbon emission from the power sector by 30 percent nationwide below 2005 levels"
http://www2.epa.gov/carbon-pollution-standards
This is a tough one for any business ... go backwards on "product" sold ... to 2005 ... let alone 1950 levels
And China has moved quickly to secure natural gas and oil from Russia .. to replace coal as a fuel soucre ... they had to in order to continue
breathing ...
And it isn't something that must be assumed ... It is a fact, and way past discussion ... That's why most nations are in fact acting on the findings
of science and their noses
China is an excellent example of what happens with tremendous industrial growth without any reasonable environmental Laws and regulations to imitate
negative impacts
Me, I'm still betting on the LHC to come up with a break through on "energy" ... which will replace "OIL" and "COAL" .. got my fingers crossed
As for being "happy" ... Like a pig in chit . .
Enjoy your AM/PM stop this morning 
[Edited on 6-14-2015 by wessongroup]
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David K
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From the Center for Global Research
http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783
The following article represents an alternative view and analysis of global climate change, which challenges the dominant Global Warming
Consensus.
PREDICTIONS BASED ON PAST CLIMATE PATTERNS
Global climate changes have been far more intense (12 to 20 times as intense in some cases) than the global warming of the past century, and they took
place in as little as 20–100 years. Global warming of the past century (0.8° C) is virtually insignificant when compared to the magnitude of at least
10 global climate changes in the past 15,000 years. None of these sudden global climate changes could possibly have been caused by human CO2 input to
the atmosphere because they all took place long before anthropogenic CO2 emissions began. The cause of the ten earlier ‘natural’ climate changes was
most likely the same as the cause of global warming from 1977 to 1998.
Figure 2. Climate changes in the past 17,000 years from the GISP2 Greenland ice core. Red = warming, blue = cooling. (Modified from Cuffy and Clow,
1997)
Climatic fluctuations over the past several hundred years suggest ~30 year climatic cycles of global warming and cooling (Figure 3) on a generally
rising trend from the Little Ice Age about 500 years ago.
Figure 3. Alternating warm and cool cycles since 1470 AD. Blue = cool, red = warm. Based on oxygen isotope ratios from the GISP2 Greenland ice core.
Relationships between glacial fluctuations, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, and global climate change.
After several decades of studying alpine glacier fluctuations in the North Cascade Range, my research showed a distinct pattern of glacial advances
and retreats (the Glacial Decadal Oscillation, GDO) that correlated well with climate records. In 1992, Mantua published the Pacific Decadal
Oscillation curve showing warming and cooling of the Pacific Ocean that correlated remarkably well with glacial fluctuations. Both the GDA and the PDO
matched global temperature records and were obviously related (Fig. 4). All but the latest 30 years of changes occurred prior to significant CO2
emissions so they were clearly unrelated to atmospheric CO2.
[click onto the link at the top to continue]
[Edited on 6-14-2015 by David K]
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gnukid
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Climate is not controlled by human influence. Human created CO2 is not pollution. Carbon is the source of life that fuels our symbiotic relationship
between plants and animals. The total contribution made by humans to the environment is minor compared to earth's natural contribution.
Taxes on energy, efforts to reduce CO2 are misdirection to create a funding source for the UN and increase control of people. Energy can not be
"conserved".
Pollution exists and can be reduced, for example, depleted uranium in arms explosions, over-use and dumping of pharmaceuticals, over-use of plastics,
pesticides, destructive practices in over fishing by-catch.
If you are willing to simply accept the lies you are being fed by the EPA, UN, NOAA, IPCC, etc why not turn off the main power to your house and sit
inside smugly in the dark and "conserve energy".
[Edited on 6-14-2015 by gnukid]
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wessongroup
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I will ... IF EVERYONE else does ...
And these guys came up with exactly the opposite along with many others
http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/globalwarming.htm...
NORTH CASCADE RESPONSE TO GLOBAL WARMING
That some would dismiss NOAA, NASA, et al ... is a little scary IMHO
Would add, in many cases ... negative environmental impacts are not readily 'Visible" ... I started out working with things in PPM, PPB, and PPT ...
Parts per million, Parts per billion and Parts per Trillion ... none of these chemicals were "visible" ... unless they were Herbicides .. and left a
visible "footprint" on the plant ... fungicides, fumigants, pesticide, and some herbicides were not visible ... the same can be said for CO2 ... can
one SEE CO2 ... not really ... unless your tagging it with radioactive tracers
Visual observations are in some cases not possible ... only sampling to determine the "presents or absents" and then quantify the "amount" ... the
establish a "tolerance" which can be "accepted" for Human Health (ten to the minus 6) and the Environment (toxic levels developing) coupled with
careful consideration to the overall impact to the "economy" both locally and the World
The problem facing the planet .. is one that you can't walk away from ... at this time
Think that is the point Dr Stephen Hawkings was making .... Find another Planet "fast" ...
To old and screwed up to make the Mars expedition .. .but, would sure in hell would sign up, for that one ...
Hey thanks for the discussion ... It all helps
And the only improvement would be having a beer ... on the deck looking out at the beauty of our "environment" .. and discussing it ...
[Edited on 6-14-2015 by wessongroup]
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mtgoat666
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globalresearch.ca is a medium for conspiracy theories, pseudo-science, propoganda and quackery
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SFandH
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Here's a Global Research article about how wonderful North Korea is.
North Korea, a Land of Human Achievement, Love and Joy
North Korea Celebrates 60th Anniversary of Victory
http://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-a-land-of-human-ach...
The earth is cooling and North Korea is a great place........according to articles on the Global Research website.
Certainly minority opinions.
[Edited on 6-14-2015 by SFandH]
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wessongroup
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This is typically how "Risk/Benefit" is conducted
"The ban on the use of DDT and certain other organochlorine
insecticides in Sweden from 1 January 1970 was based on a number of ecological considerations. More recently a number of other developed countries
have restricted or banned the use of DDT except when it is needed for the protection of health. However, DDT is still used extensively for both
agriculture and vector control in some tropical countries. If DDT were not used, vast populations would again be
condemned to the ravages of endemic and epidemic malaria.
Substitution of malathion or propoxur for DDT would increase the cost of malaria control by approximately 3.4- or 8.5-fold, respectively, and these
increases could not be supported by some countries without decreasing the coverage of their control programs."
A difficult balance to work through ... regardless of the specific "chemical" being discussed ...
And chemistry is the basis on which "economic growth" is dependent on ... think not, just look around the room, the car or outside ... its all "atoms"
which are the building blocks of everything we know, at this time
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