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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
So, would you rather not read of what it is like camping on an island off Baja than to hear the whole story, including the death of one rattlesnake?
Graham is not hiding the snake kill from us, yet because he did tell us, those of you who put the poison viper above humans are having quite a field
day here! 
When fishuntr killed the red diamondback that came into our busy camp area (dogs, people) in April, 2003, you snake-lovers also had a fit. 
Sorry folks but in my opinion man IS a natural part of this planet and man can kill the lower beasts for survival (food, safety, etc.). 
Graham has a permit to be there, as stated in the earlier mails from him... Maybe he will turn himself in? Jail would be a quiet place to write his
next book, afterall!
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I would rather not read his book. I read one, that's enough.
"Put the poison viper above humans?" I do enjoy wildlife and I think rational beings-which includes some humans-should have some restraints on
instinctive, animalistic "kill or be killed" behavior. Such as rules and regulations governing hunting and fishing. And rules creating ecological
reserves. To respond to that by saying that I put "animals above humans" is illogical, although I will confess that do not travel to wild outdoor
places to see people driving around in Toyota trucks.
The argument that killing the snake was necessary self defense is absurd. Killing the snake put him in more danger than just walking away from it. He
should restrict his camping to places with no snakes, or places where he can legally kill and eat them, or learn to leave them alone.
And yes, Graham has a permit to be there. And I suspect he violated that permit. And I do think he should turn himself in.
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ursidae69
Nomad
Posts: 275
Registered: 2-22-2004
Location: Youngsville, NM
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
So, would you rather not read of what it is like camping on an island off Baja than to hear the whole story, including the death of one rattlesnake?
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I do know what it is like to camp on an island in Baja as do many here. I'd still like to hear his updates, even if the guy is a big baby around
snakes. "Ohh, I'm skeeeeered of the snake 50 yards from my camp, I have to kill it!" Maybe he'll use my quote in his book and cite me. The work required to kill it was far more dangerous than simply walking around it.
Ask any herpetologist. I suggest that Graham, and you DavidK go to http://www.tongs.com/ and buy the Gentle Giant Snake Tong to make removal of snakes completely safe and easy. Or you can use the tong to hold him while you kill him, whatever
floats your boat.
| Quote: |
Graham is not hiding the snake kill from us, yet because he did tell us, those of you who put the poison viper above humans are having quite a field
day here!
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Nobody is putting human lives above snakes, quit being silly David. If he or anyone else is truly in danger, then hell yeah, kill it, but Graham was
not in danger. If he really does like to kill things that present danger, he should have killed all the fisherman that moved into his camp and smoked
dope. They were a lot more of a threat than the silly snake!
| Quote: |
When fishuntr killed the red diamondback that came into our busy camp area (dogs, people) in April, 2003, you snake-lovers also had a fit.
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Waaaaaaaaa....... By the way DavidK, C. ruber's correct common name the red diamond rattlesnake, not red diamondback.
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Sorry folks but in my opinion man IS a natural part of this planet and man can kill the lower beasts for survival (food, safety, etc.).
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I agree, please tell Graham to learn some basic survival techniques.
| Quote: |
Graham has a permit to be there, as stated in the earlier mails from him... Maybe he will turn himself in? Jail would be a quiet place to write his
next book, afterall!
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Bottom line, if he or anyone else is going to visit another country, at least follow their rules and customs. If the islands are protected along with
the critters, then follow the rules or write your book from someplace else.
[Edited on 3-13-2006 by ursidae69]
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
Member Is Offline
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Gringo Policia
these snake defenders are a real hoot,next time I encounter one i'll be sure to let it know not to worry for the defenders of the snake are numerous
and are ready to do battle with anyone who harms the beautiful creature
geez,lighten up already...i've camped in Baja many times and have killed a few innocent creatures like scorpions and other spiders not to mention fish
and who knows what else...the mexicans who live locally do the same...it seems to be a matter of personal choice,so why question the choice of a
person who obviously has a permit to be there and made a choice to kill an animal known to be deadly that was in close proximity to his
camp.......even if it was a mistake,why sit around and harp on it endlessly when it is such a trivial part of the largerer picture of what Graham is
doing on the island....does it give some of you nay-sayers such great pleasure to point out this apparent flaw in Grahams character that you cant just
let it go
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Eet, people don't get over anything here! But they certainly reuse the same ol' bait. Were just waiting for mo fodder. Seriously, Graham should
share(carefully), like the time he sat on a cholla. Killed it dead, but dint eat it.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Mike Supino
Nomad
Posts: 351
Registered: 10-16-2002
Member Is Offline
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News From Graham
I just heard that he did not actually kill the snake... he just put that part in his report to stir sh*t.
Therianthropic
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
Member Is Offline
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"Whats that you say,Andy...
you just caught that evil snake killer Graham Mackintosh,well be careful,he's crazy you know....i'll call in for back-up"
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mike Supino
I just heard that he did not actually kill the snake... he just put that part in his report to stir sh*t. |
Egads, that clever Graham has put one over on us....WE'VE BEEN HAD!
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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ursidae69
Nomad
Posts: 275
Registered: 2-22-2004
Location: Youngsville, NM
Member Is Offline
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I dunno EET, we might need Rosco!!! 
[Edited on 3-13-2006 by ursidae69]
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
Member Is Offline
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if you ask me,the dog looks a bit smarter than old Rosco does!
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fishuntr
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 10-7-2002
Location: So. Calif. High Desert
Member Is Offline
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Sheesh David!...I just recently got off parole for killing that buzztail 3 years ago at Santa Maria. Now you have to tell a whole new batch of
Nomads about my transgressions. Oh woe!. How can I ever live this down.
Do the best you can and enjoy your life
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64848
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Anything to get you to post here fishuntr!!!
You have a lot to share, afterall... and only 16 posts on Nomad!?
Those of you snake-huggers who somehow think that I also kill vipers because I post Graham's letters here and am standing in to defend him as he
cannot... Well, for your information, I have not killed any snakes in Baja but have seen several.... rattlers always in APRIL.
My daughter's photo with a red diamond rattler appeared in the Discover Baja magazine article I wrote (about Inky the dog, found on our way into Santa
Maria)... We easily could have killed it, but didn't as we had no need to. Another red diamond (diamondback to some) I nearly stepped on in Parral
canyon... took its photo and left it alone. A Baja Ca rattlesnake was on the road near Montevideo petro site... again, took its picture and let it
go... All photos in my web site... Want me to post them here?
So, stop ragging on me...
Also, since Graham IS a expert Baja camper, backpacker and adventurer, not some complaining tourist, I will believe HIM: that he felt the need to kill
the snake...
Get over it... for Pete's sake
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bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
Member Is Offline
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When we first lived in La Paz--back in the days when venomous snakes were not widely considered to be Our Friends--I killed a rattlesnake because I
wondered what they tasted like. Sauteed in butter and simmered in a little white wine, it was delicious.
We gave some to a couple of Mexican schoolmates of my sons (then 9 and 11) who stopped by, telling them it was pollo de desierto. The boys really
liked it. When told it was rattlesnake, they laughed--and both of them asked for a piece of "desert chicken" to take home and fool their dads with.
Sigmund Freud could probably make something out of this.
[Edited on 3-14-2006 by bajalera]
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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Neal Johns
Super Nomad
Posts: 1687
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: In love!
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Our Husky, Kodiak, found a snake in the kitchen. I killed it. (Continued)
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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Neal Johns
Super Nomad
Posts: 1687
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: In love!
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Then, I ate it.
Huskies taste like chicken.
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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YOU DOG NEAL!!!
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64848
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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GRAHAM IS BACK! Snake kill detailed...
This has been replaced by a better Word document version, 9:30 pm Tue. night
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 14, 2006
San Diego
From Graham Mackintosh
Back home in San Diego twelve pounds lighter, I?ve been able to review the postings about my Guardian Angel Island trip on this message board.
Wow! I thought I used the term ?marooned? in quotation marks as a convenient handle to describe my situation. It was meant lightheartedly. So I was a
little surprised by all the excitement that caused some people.
As for all the stuff about Survivor, I can?t really comment on that; I?ve never watched the program and have no desire to. I?d much rather be
somewhere like Guardian Angel Island hiking, kayaking, beachcombing, bird watching, exploring, and generally relaxing and meditating beneath the
stars. I do have the equipment, know-how, and common sense to survive alone in such circumstances if necessary ? several times I ran out of water and
had to make drinking water from the sea ? but that was not the intention of my trip. I was not on the island looking for trouble. If I never had a
dangerous or unpleasant moment out there I?d be a very happy man.
My goal was to get to know the island, its history, geology, wildlife, ecology, the people who come and go, to photograph it, to experience it and, if
the spirit moves me, to write about it and try to distil its essence to my readers. As it has taken me about two years on average to do the research
and write each of my three books I have to be sure my heart is in it before I take the plunge.
I?d like to think I?m aging gracefully and the Graham Mackintosh that wrote Nearer My Dog to Thee and Journey with a Baja Burro is a very different
person from the more naive ?swashbuckling? author of Into a Desert Place. Some people don?t like the change; others haven?t even noticed it. But
certainly there is evolution ? backpacking to burro packing to ?base camping.? The journeys have got shorter, the physical demands easier, the
interests different. Shoot, I may just cuddle up to the comfort of my computer screen and sit on my ?burro? for the next project and write a novel!
Well, as for killing that rattlesnake, it was probably the toughest decision of the trip. My wife, an avid snake lover, strongly disagreed with what I
did.
If I had encountered it away from my camp ? up in the mountains or on some remote beach -- I would have taken some photographs, wished it well and
carried on.
However, I had just arrived at Este Ton and was taking my first hike inland, up a little, steep-sided, brush-covered gulley. Without scrambling up
slopes or over the large boulders on the shore, it offered the most obvious trail off my little sandy beach.
The gulley was littered with blowing bathroom tissue, unburied caca, and assorted trash left behind presumably by fishermen who often choose the
sheltered bay as a campsite. I remember thinking I am going to have to clean this up? and as I stepped over rocks and felt the brush scrape against my
legs, the only other thought I had time for was ? I had better watch myself here, it?s a warm day following a warm night and this place is prime
rattlesnake country.
I was an easy stone?s throw from my campsite, right in the gulley that leads to it, and I encounter one of the largest rattlesnakes I?ve ever seen! It
was perfectly camouflaged beneath some sticks and reeds. I almost trod on it. It did not rattle. I only noticed it because it moved. Up until that
moment, during my first month on the island, I hadn?t seen a sign of a snake.
Retreating a yard or two, I slipped off my backpack, took some pictures and then spent several minutes looking at it, looking down to my tent, and
debating what to do. In spite of numerous encounters I hadn?t killed a rattlesnake in maybe a dozen years. But I had a serious problem here.
I couldn?t just bypass it and forget it. The snake was maybe just a two minute slither from my tent and camping gear, from the place that I would be
calling home for almost the next month.
I was alone on that island with very uncertain communications. [There at Este Ton, although I could often hear radio traffic from LA Bay, especially
if I climbed a bit, I tried unsuccessfully several times to contact anyone on my handheld marine radio.]
The sea was rough after a wild night. The wind could come blasting up at any moment. The tides were running at their fullest and the currents were
intimidating. I would not give a lot for my chances if I were bitten by a rattlesnake and had to try kayaking fifteen miles back to Bah?a de los
Angeles on my stable but slow Cobra Tandem ?sit-on-top.?
I thought about returning to my camp and grabbing some kind of bag or container in which to put the snake? or using my machete, walking stick, or some
other object to carry it away out of the gulley. But such was the size of the snake, and picturing the difficulties of pulling it into the open,
picking it up and carrying it far enough up that canyon to safely release it, it just seemed like an accident waiting to happen.
Besides, the snake was getting increasingly lively and I thought there was a good chance if I left the scene it would disappear and I might not see it
again till I did tread on it.
Weighing all the circumstances, I reluctantly decided to kill the rattlesnake. A single rock was sufficient. It wasn?t something I took any pride or
pleasure in. In fact, I felt guilty and sick about it.
I didn?t eat it, but I did examine its stomach contents to see what it had been eating.
It wasn?t a red diamondback. It was a speckled rattlesnake. Although red diamondbacks ? Crotalus ruber ? are fairly large snakes on the Baja
peninsula, there on Isla Angel de la Guarda they tend to be much smaller. The reverse is true for the speckled rattlesnake ? Crotalus mitchellii ? the
island version of which has evolved into a very large formidable snake. Most authorities think this is because it arrived on the island first and
adapted to the ready supply of large endemic chuckwallas (Sauromalus hispidus) leaving the red diamondback latecomers to find another niche. Indeed, I
saw several chuckwallas on the slope above where I killed the snake, including the one seen here. I suspect they were the preferred prey.
Anyway, it was a life and death decision that I wished I did not have to make. Whatever I did, there were going to be consequences. I didn?t act
because I hate or am terrified of rattlesnakes as some posters rather ungenerously suggest, or indifferent to the responsibilities of being in a
protected reserve. However, in the circumstances and in the time I had to make my decision, I felt a greater responsibility to myself, my family? and
to not endangering the lives of anyone who might have tried to get out there to get me to medical assistance.
I know many people think I was wrong and will have no sympathy with my action and will not be impressed by my pointing out that I subsequently walked
by that spot at least fifty times? or my pointing out that by all accounts there are high population densities of both Crotalus ruber and Crotalus
mitchellii on the forty-two mile long island? and part of me agrees with them? but alone in such circumstances caution is a virtue that has served me
well over the years and I just saw things a little differently.
My thanks to those who tried to put themselves in my boots and withhold judgment till they at least heard my side of things.
Graham Mackintosh
( Graham attached the following three photos )
[Edited on 3-15-2006 by David K]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64848
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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second photo...
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64848
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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third photo showing EsteTon (second camp location)
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Oso
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2637
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: on da border
Member Is Offline
Mood: wait and see
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Buena respuesta. Para mi, ahi muere.
[Edited on 3-15-2006 by Oso]
[Edited on 3-15-2006 by Oso]
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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In all honesty
Graham, although I frown on unwarranted killing, I must admit that I may have possibly reacted the same way. Believe me snakebites are horrible and
although no one ever sees someone thats been bitten it is not a pretty sight.
My reason(s) are very deeply seeded however.
I would be remiss later as you are and regret what I had done.Thanks for owning up to your awkward position and decision, and expressing them here.
Corky
say, why did you not eat that bad boy?
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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