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fdt
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Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
ftd
I have had the good luck to have helped a family unload their boat of turtles in San Felipe many years ago. This of course led to a wonerful dinner of
soup and steaks. Delicious. I am glad that there is now focus on saving these creatures. Maybe one day we can have a bowl again.
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Yes it's been years, I'm sure it will taste even better.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
I am not certain what your response to iclarke is about? Does he appear to be rude askiing these questions before learning some things? Does he appear
forward in asking these things? I will go look for the post. I am interested in what he has said that generates your questions. There may be some
cultural differences there or maybe something else? |
What I am saying is that he probably already knows about the culture
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Iflyfish
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I mean no offence to iclarke for his post. I have not yet read it but it has struck a cord with ftd, a native Mexican, so I am interested in what he
said. Where can I find it?
Iflyfish
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fdt
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Here goes again:
Do the people that hate c-ckfighting, bullfighting, turtleeating and so on know that all of this is going on before entering México?
If they do, do they know that it's part of the culture?
Are they here to change it?
Do they want it to be the same as what they left behind?
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to accept, they don't have to participate.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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DENNIS
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Go to Todays Posts
TWO QUESTIONS / NEVER TRAVELED TO BAJA
Pretty close to the top at this moment
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Iflyfish
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ftd
I found his post
"two questions, never traveled baja
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone could answer some of my questions as I hav bever traveld in Baja, or even Mexico for that reason. I plan on backpacking,
camping out in a tent most of the time. I plan on hitting up some hotels every now and then looking for a private room. I have heard 300 or so US
dollars is plenty for traveling Baja for two weeks. Is this true? Also, I am unsure what the safest way to carry ash is... Should I carry cash or rock
out with a debit card?
Lastly, I am flying into San Diego, menaing I will need to drive over the border. What forms of ID will Ineed to enter/leave Mexico?
best regards,
-Ian "
What is it about this post that you are reacting too? I still don't understand? I may have the same bone in my nose.
Thanks,
Iflyfish
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toneart
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Iflyfish raises a great question (paraphrasing): Are bloodsports a substitute for war?
Are they? Do they take the pressure off humans of every culture?
Does this apply to spectators as well as participants?
What about watching war on television? Does that serve the same purpose. It is presented as a form of entertainment.
How about returning vets? Have they had enough so that they will never want to watch boxing, football, bull fighting, c-ck fighting, etc.?
My personal belief is that, yes, we all have a Hitler within us. We are all capable of killing. I also think some enjoy it and others are repulsed by
it. These tendencies do not seem to be exclusive to any one culture.
These are base traits that humans possess. But the gift that we humans possess is the ability to rise above this baseness. Here's how:
Do a gut check. How do bloodsports, war, cruelty, torture make you feel? If you have been desensitized by life's experiences so as to not feel much,
can you reach back and remember how you felt about these things as a child?
Look into your soul; What does your religious or spiritual or humanist experience say to you?
How would you like sadists, bullies, torturers or murderers to treat you? (I'm not considering self-defense instincts here).
How does negative attention and name calling make you feel?
Can you remember when you started to desensitize? Was it peer influence; your parents; a sibling; a teacher? Can you remember the transition?
I'm just saying that, just because we possess these traits, it doesn't mean that it is OK to act on them. We can control them. We can be better human
beings.
Is the following hypocrisy?: I like the skill level and the artistry (if you will) in watching football and boxing and auto racing. When someone gets
hurt or dies, I really feel horrible....for that person....for his/her family and friends.
In most cultures we (especially boys) all played sports. It was mandatory in school. It was also fun. Many of us participated in sports in college or
in the military or in leagues. We appreciate the skill level that specially talented people and professionals possess. We know what it takes. Most of
us don't measure up, but we can fantasize and live vicariously.
Some people do go to boxing matches and auto races to see someone get hurt or killed. Some people enjoy it when our team or our country kicks the
others' asses. There is a concerted public relations campaign to villify the "other" and make them faceless. It doesn't matter if they die because
they are less than us; less than human. I know that's true. I don't get it. There was a time when I did.
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fdt
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
ftd
I found his post
What is it about this post that you are reacting too? I still don't understand? I may have the same bone in my nose.
Thanks,
Iflyfish |
He's not asking about the culture or customs, so I imagine he knows.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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DENNIS
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Lots of people go to Mexico with pre-formed notions about these issues. Lots of others dont and couldn't care less.
I don't feel that it's a good idea to travel to another country with plans to change the culture. If one adopts the new culture and the new culture
adopts him, I feel he has every right to have an opinion on all things new and old.
But, if I ever go to Turkey, I wont pray in a Mosque.
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Lee
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Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fdt
Here goes again:
Do the people that hate c-ckfighting, bullfighting, turtleeating and so on know that all of this is going on before entering México?
If they do, do they know that it's part of the culture?
Are they here to change it?
Do they want it to be the same as what they left behind?
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to accept, they don't have to participate. |
I"ll give you an example of something. Once in Pescadero, a dog was killed on the highway. I'm the kind of person, up North, who stops to drag
dead animals off the road. Doesn't matter what shape they're in.
I was in a hurry that day and didn't stop to get this dog. By afternoon, when I passed it again, it was too late. I would have needed a large
scraper to get it off the road and didn't think the traffic would cut me any slack.
I brought the issue up to a local who said: Mexicans are superstitious and don't like death. Something like that. Maybe I'm thinking they
don't like dogs too.
Next time, I'll stop sooner. Maybe my behavior will influence someone to do the same for a dead animal next time. Maybe not.
I recognize that there are things about Baja, Mexico, that I don't like and think are backwards and unenlightened. I accept that. Not everyone
in Baja and Mexico is backwards and unenlightened. Just some people. I can have a moral and ethical judgment about c-ckfighting and bullfighting
and not be judgmental. I'm not Mother Theresa and not here to save the world -- though in my younger years I wasted alot of time trying to do that.
Some part of me is still trying to do that as a Paramedic. (Today, I chastised an older man (older than me) who was using a chainsaw that he
needed to have on a helmet and goggles and that if the chainsaw kicked back and took off his head, I'd treat him but tell him I told him so.)
In regard to Baja, I'm a guest, I'll always be a guest and even after I have Mexican citizenship, I"ll still be a guest and respect the people.
Doesn't mean I have to respect the people who haven't gotten it. And I can state that people enjoying themselves at cage fighting events, or
c-ckfighting, or eating turtles that might be endangered, haven't gotten it.
There are people who will die stupid. I know some.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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Iflyfish
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Registered: 10-17-2006
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ftd,
You wrote
"Here goes again:
ftd,
You wrote
"Here goes again:
Do the people that hate c-ckfighting, bullfighting, turtleeating and so on know that all of this is going on before entering México?
If they do, do they know that it's part of the culture?
Are they here to change it?
Do they want it to be the same as what they left behind?
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to accept, they don't have to participate."
It sounds like some of the opinions of NorteAmericanos regarding bullfighting, c-ckfighting; turtle eating etc are offensive to you as these things
are part of your culture. It would be like you coming to the USofA and making a fuss about us eating turkey for dinner at Thanksgiving.
Is it like the feeling you had when you saw what happened to Cabo when the NorteAmericanos came and changed everything? Like something important to
you was being criticized and taken away?
I am glad that you are posting here on this topic. I don't know if we NorteAmericanos get how insulting we can be by questioning criticizing or trying
to change these differences.
Do the people that hate c-ckfighting, bullfighting, turtleeating and so on know that all of this is going on before entering México?
If they do, do they know that it's part of the culture?
Are they here to change it?
Do they want it to be the same as what they left behind?
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to accept, they don't have to participate."
It sounds like some of the opinions of NorteAmericanos regarding bullfighting, c-ckfighting; turtle eating etc are offensive to you as these things
are part of your culture. It would be like you coming to the USofA and making a fuss about us eating turkey for dinner at Thanksgiving.
Is it like the feeling you had when you saw what happened to Cabo when the NorteAmericanos came and changed everything? Like something important to
you was being criticized and taken away?
I am glad that you are posting here on this topic. I don't know if many of us NorteAmericanos get how insulting we can be by questioning criticizing
or trying to change these differences.
The Federal Government of Canada resides on the East Coast of Canada and in an area where French is commonly spoken. Many Federal Legislators believed
that because of the history of the French in Canada and the numbers of French speakers in Canada that they should make the ENTIRE country bilingual.
Well that really made the people of British Columbia mad. There are not many French speakers in British Columbia, or that was true at the time. Anyway
they ended up having to have both languages on all things sold in the ENTIRE country. There was an outcry, a huge debate. They felt that the French
Canadians were imposing their culture and values on them and did not like it one bit. There were cries of Cultural Imperialism raised against the
French Politicians who proposed and supported the law. Both Canada and France require that a certain percentage of their broadcast media be of
Canadian and French origin. They do not want the “Cultural Imperialism” of the USofA to be thrust upon them unawares. Since the USofA is so powerful,
I don’t think we have had much experience of being the recipient of this. It is good to hear from a person of another culture what this is like.
Iflyfish
Iflyfish
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Oso
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Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: on da border
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Having seen "Midnight Express", I ain't never going to Turkey, no how, no way.
"There are only three true sports: Bullfighting, Mountaineering, and Auto Racing. The rest are just games."
-E. Hemingway
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Iflyfish
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toneart,
I really like how you said this
"Do a gut check. How do bloodsports, war, cruelty, torture make you feel? If you have been desensitized by life's experiences so as to not feel much,
can you reach back and remember how you felt about these things as a child?"
That sounds like a very good moral compass to me. I have come to understand the concept of sin as a choice not to follow this compass.
Having said that I have to be very careful applying my compass to your or anyone else’s journey. That is the rub. Does the other person want a
compass? Is my compass of any use or value to them? Do they have their own way of navigating? If I offer my compass am I inherently saying that theirs
is flawed?
I once had a professional philosopher in my boat. We fished many a time before I inquired as to his profession. I told him I had a philosopher in my
boat all the time. I told him that philosopher started the engine each time I turned the key. We had a good laugh with that. Anyway he told me that as
a philosopher, his field is Medical Ethics, that the important thing is to ask the questions that others may not have asked. The answers will emerge,
ask good questions he told me.
I like your questions a lot. Do a gut check. Think about your history and acculturation. Do you feel ok doing what you are doing? Ask yourself
questions about yourself. I like that a lot.
Iflyfish
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
It would be like you coming to the USofA and making a fuss about us eating turkey for dinner at Thanksgiving.
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Having a gringa wife, yes, I have to go eat turkey on thanksgiving and I love the food. I would like to eat turkey dinner with all the trimings more
often. As for the simbolism behind the turkey and the corn and all that, nobody from my family sailed with the pilgrims, but someone said that we
probably cooked the turkey for them.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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DENNIS
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IFF -----------
Speaking of shifting cultural imperialism, have you been in Southern California or Chicago lately?
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DENNIS
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fdt ------
Or at least washed the dishes.
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Iflyfish
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Dennis wrote
“IFF -----------
Yes. I believe we have all the emotions and all potentials for human behavior but, not All human behavior for All people. To believe that is to say we
actually have no control over ourselves. Do you think Mother Theresa could have run the ovens in Auschwitz? Not on her worst day and she wouldn't have
had to control any impulse to the contrary. Strong moral conviction trumps basic capability. We grow out of that stage hopefully at a young age, our
age of reason.”
I do believe that we have lots of control over ourselves. I also believe it is important to know and understand ourselves so that we can exercise that
control wisely.
I do believe we have primitive impulses and emotions that if we do not learn how to direct in positive ways can be very destructive. One of my
favorite books and movies is Lord of the Flies. In that work the social system breaks down and a duke system evolves and it is survival of the
strongest. The physically strong take over. I believe this to be human nature.
I do indeed believe that Mother Theresa would have run the ovens of Auschwitz had she not had some formative developmental experiences that mitigated
against this. Why did she devote her life to suffering if she did not understand oppression? What was it in her history that led her to eschew her
self-interest or recognize her self-interest was to focus on the needs of others? This sort of act comes out of some sort of illumination that
generally is preceded by some painful experience or awareness. What was it she recognized in herself that she needed to overcome in order to do what
she did? I do not know about her history, maybe someone else can help us to better understand what motivated her.
Of Theresa you say “Not on her worst day and she wouldn't have had to control any impulse to the contrary.” I wonder. I wonder if she went through a
“dark night of the soul”, a questioning of purpose. A battle with her self over her meaning, purpose etc. If one meditates it does not take long to
run into our demons. She had hers too. She was human after all. She BECAME a saint. She was not born one.
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
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fdt
I like turkey too. It is hard to enjoy or digest it if you have a militant vegitarian at your table.
Ilfyfish
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Iflyfish
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Oso, you could have gone all day without saying that
What, oh no, Hemminway considered fishing a game? Oh, no....no.. no
Iflyfishwhennotcrushedbytherealizationpapahemminwaythinksit'sagame
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Iflyfish
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Well, I have been laying around all day wretching from my thphoid pill, pwueee.
Great dialogue. I appreciate all of the posts today, took my thoughts away from my wreched body.
Off to Baja soon!
Iflyfish
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fdt
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Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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From one town to another
Before the days of president Lopez Portillo, Tijuana or most of it's long time residents did not use pesos, Tecate did, mexicali did, Ensenada did but
Tijuana was dollars only to see pesos was not an everyday thing, Once my uncle from Ensenada gave me some mexican 20¢ coins that they used for the
jukeboxes they had and when I tried to spend them in school (mexican school) they would not accept them. I remember some people (mexican) thought
Tijuana was in the US. That was a cultural difference within the same culture even the same state.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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