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ramuma53
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Dennis
I thought that only Mexico was that ineficient, it is amazing, but knowing about the problem is the first step to correct it.
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wessongroup
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ditto's
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Gypsy Jan
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FWIW (For What It is Worth)
Dr. Perales of the Serena Healthcare Group and Bona Nova Hospital in Rosarito says that Medicare reimbursements for patients treated in Mexico will
happen in the next five years.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Dr. Perales of the Serena Healthcare Group and Bona Nova Hospital in Rosarito says that Medicare reimbursements for patients treated in Mexico will
happen in the next five years. |
That will be the end of affordable medical care in Mexico.
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ramuma53
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The true Rosarito History
Why history is important to the Real Estate business or how is it related???
In Baja, the disorder with the Title legal chain, has been a major one, where authorities and developers, that usually are the same people, have acted
in a very irresponsible way; after all, Baja was mostly out of the way for a lot of years.
During the 1800s, a lot of people thought, that one way or the other, Baja will end up as part of the USA and just neglected it for decades.
The USA will, to get Baja, was not as big as the Mexican authorities thought and Baja never went to USA. The period 1879-1916 was the Porfirio Diaz
dictatorship and many people Satanize him, but we have to remember, that he was the one who took Mexico from being a warlord battlefield to a Nation
recognized internationally and with a strong international presence; just think that today, 90% of the actual railroad infrastructure Mexico has
today, was built during his period.
He received a Mexico, just out of a failed empire, where a European Royal that came to be Mexico´s Emperor, was killed and a huge national disorder
controlled; Mexico had no official maps and Governors acted like local kings.
He arranged with American companies, to measure and make topographical plans for Baja, the price sked, would be, half of the measured area and of
course, the American companies, went all the way and measured the whole Baja, of course expecting to own half of Baja, those companies were known as
¨Compañias Deslindadoras¨ or Surveyor companies.
Porfirio Diaz just didn´t tell those companies, that the Mexican constitution forbid Foreign Companies to own land in Mexico, also the 1863 forbid the
ownership of more than 2500 Has. And forbid ownership to Mexicans living in foreign countries, with the 1863 law specifically saying that any excess
or transgression would return the land to National Property.
Also, most of the wealthy people in Baja, lived in San Diego or San Francisco, Tijuana and Ensenada were only small ranches and had received property
titles from governors for favors made.
The Machado Family as we showed, lived in San Francisco, were born in San Diego California and they chose, to be recognized as Americans, not Mexicans
and anyway got a title in 1879 given by Porfirio Diaz, against the then acting 1863 law.
The at the end of the Revolution that sent the Dictator Porfirio Diaz to France, they knew that the 2500 Has. land limit, would be enforced and
promptly sold the 19,300 Has. Area Rosarito Ranch land, to a Mexican company named Cia. Explotadora de la Baja California, owned 99.8% by a Canadian,
named Huge Francis Collins.
In 1917, as expected, the new president after the Revolution, promptly proclaimed officially (May 7, 1917, official Federation newspaper) that all the
land in foreign hands in Baja was declared National property also known as National Land.
At that point in time, Rancho El Rosarito and most lands in Baja became National Land if we want to speculate that at any time they were not national
property, this is not a theory argument, it is legal executed act by the Mexico President that nobody argued in court in time or formally and it
became a legal true that nobody may contradict in a Mexican court.
Many people just ignored this very important legal fact and just went ahead acting like land owners, but legally they were not and since national Land
is not subjected to appropriation by possession, the act of possession the land gave those peoples no legal right.
When Hugh Francis Collins was ordered to sell the Hotel Rosarito to Mr. Barbachano, he knew he had to protect all the land he bought and promptly gave
the land to his wife, an Spanish actress named Daisy Moreno, expecting that her name would fool everybody in to think she was Mexican.
Actually Daisy Moreno Estate, claiming to own lands in Baja is named Moreno and Cia. Suscesores and incredibly have won legal cases against a lot of
people lacking the information.
The Federal government made some mistakes also, like in 1947, they expropriated 4300 Has. To crate the Ejido Mazatlan, creating a problem, because it
was created by a Presidential proclamation and Presidential proclamations must by nature to be exact or they do not exist and in this case it
expropriated land from the wrong people, because the Machado Family acquired through a void title, then sold the land to a foreigner owned company and
had absolutely no property to be expropriated and this mean, that the Ejido Mazatlan has absolutely no land.
To complicate things even more, in those years, the Federal Government made so many Ejidos that they had no surveyors to execute and measure the land
that was going to be given to those peoples, or to check if those people receiving the ejidos were even Mexicans; this is the case for Ejido Mazatlan,
because the guy sent by the Federal government to give them the land had the obligation to measure the land, notify the neighbors and allow them to
contest any measurement; this to avoid mistakes and also check the Ejidatarios papers as Mexicans (They are American Cityzens, California Residents.
He just came to Tijuana and at the airport, executed several ejidos, without checking anything or even go to the surveyed lands and this is known as
virtual execution of a presidential decree.
By Supreme Court precedents known as Jurisprudencia, a virtual execution is an inexistent execution and means that the legal act, do not exist or is
legally acceptable and this mean, that the Ejido Mazatlan has not received absolutely no land in a legal and formal way.
This legal act was proved in Federal court and ratified by the Supreme Court in several cases by now, but the flag one is the case of CFE against the
Ejido Mazatlan and the Electricity Federal Commission (CFE) won. (my company engineers were the CFE technical experts).
Then in November 7, 1952 a presidential proclamation was published in the Federation official newspaper, proclaiming the strip starting at Arroyo El
Rosarito, just south of Rosarito, all the way to PUNTA PANDA in Ensenada, from the Highway to the Federal Zone, NATIONAL LAND.
Starting in 1950, the SRA started to grant National Land Titles in that strip, the first issued in 1951 were given to the area on El Morro, just south
of Calafia now, then in 1992 to 1994, Venustiano Carranza, Playa Encantada, Castillos del Mar, Baja Mar, Playas de Tijuana and some more near Tijuana
were issued and no more, but there are some procedures already paid that are just waiting to receive their title, Rancho Sanchez, known as Popotla,
Rancho costa Azul in Rosarito beach and a few near Tijuana.
Specially take note, that Las Olas I and II are illegally there, over National land, specificly over the Playa Encantada procedue and any people who
buy there, will have legal problems in the very near future.
All the other lots, DO NOT HAVE TITLE, they pretend to justify the property with prescripciones or sales made by Ejido Mazatlan or sales made by the
Machado Family.
In 1992, I sent a letter to the SRA giving all the legal proof on the title chain legal status in Baja, I went to Mexico city and through some
congressman exposed my case for Playa Encantada and obtained that a national Land office were sent to Baja, that is the cause that some titles were
issued in Baja in that epoch.
Then when the PAN party won the Estate, they contacted me through one of their directives, Hector Castellanos Muños and understood the problem,
telling me that the new PAN government and Governor Ruffo wanted to correct the problem at once and to do that, they commissioned one of the Governor
aids named Carlos Reynoso Nuño (brother of one of my friends and fellow black belts) to come to Mexico City with me and collect all the legal proof
and we did that; he collected everything and we returned to Baja, having convinced him fully.
While I waited for the land legalization campaign, Hector Castellanos convinced me to give a talk to the Tijuana Major and all of the Tijuana public
officials at the COPLADEN public forum in the Tijuana city hall, I did in 1996 to 500 people, with all the city public officials and the then Tijuana
major, now Congress Senator presence, it was a hot discussion, but with all the documentation, everybody went away with the new knowledge about the
land legality in Tijuana and Rosarito.
A second public talk was given at the Tijuana Commerce Chamber to all the Real Estate Agents and Cadastral public officials; again everybody was
convinced and even got samples of all kinds of private property tiles.
At that point everything looked like the land legalization will really happen with all the Governor Support and help.
Then Carlos Reynoso Nuño came to me and told me that the Governor thought that to legalize the land in the Rosarito area would be too problematic,
because the developers would have to admit to the bank trusts that they did not have a legal title and because they would have to pay the Nation for
the land, they thought that they already owned and told me to find a way to challenge the National land property issue.
I told them that it was impossible, because I had just demonstrated to them, the National Land property and there were no way, the opposite point was
ever proved in any court and since the national land property, was not subjected to Time appropriation, the problem would just go unsolved until a
President came and recovered the land or even worst, some people with money and power, bought the land and then take the houses from the buyers like
in Punta Banda (It is happening at this time, and the ex PAN officials have got for themselves a lot of land).
They heard me and ordered me to just do it, including my then business partner and friend, Hector Castellanos; I refused because I was not working for
the government or anybody and the next thing I knew, was that they started to try jail me, on any excuse, including inventing felonies from judges
that did not exist.
Also the National Land commission was ordered to just close its doors and send all the documents as is, to Mexico City wher mostly disapeared.
A lot of people made public protest and convinced me to run for office as Congress Senator in the 2000 elections, I did and I got the highest number
of votes for that party in that election, but did not won.
[Edited on 3-17-2011 by ramuma53]
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wessongroup
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Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge, plus the time and effort... quite a word picture you create...
Maybe lost a battle, but not the struggle for "Land Reform in Mexico" ..
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ramuma53
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Not a lost battle at all, just an ongoing battle.
I found this video about the Wooosh problem and it show how the problem in Rosarito really is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCRflD9USro
After this and what you have been reading here, if you buy in Rosarito, you cannot say they took advantage of you and that is the objective here.
In Mexico we do not need any law reform, we have the laws in place since 1863, but the law enforcers are not doing a good job or are themselves in the
developer business.
We also cannot talk about problems like this in the whole Mexico, only North Baja is a disaster area for Real Estate.
At this point, real estate sales, are in a historic low and it is that way, because the Mexican developer in Rosarito, following Hugo Torres Chavert´s
lead, didn´t respect the buyer offering clear private property titles and public officials are more interested in getting money than in controlling an
industry that badly need controlling; they need to prosecution for the bad ones and counsel for the majority.
Mr. Wooosh´s problem exist, only because the people who should be enforcing the existing laws, are doing their best to hide the fact that they
themselves allowed the building to be built; of course, nature helped by taking away the beach, but we all know that the sand level in Rosarito, come
and go in cycles, also that the CFE breakwater is modifying the coast, south of it, by allowing the sand to wash away.
Also, something funny must be going on there, that I am trying to find out, because if you or me, try to build something, just a few inches inside the
Federal Zone, the inspectors would stop your building in minutes, fine you big time and even take you to court, I have seen that a lot of times. Why
not in this very obvious case?????????????????????
Usually that can happen in Mexico when:
A drug related person, pay every time and has very good friends with the Federeles.
The place is helping in a way with drug activities and believe me, there are a lot of drug activities in Rosarito, now it is the last step in the drug
ladder in the way to USA and the place were more drug laboratories are in Baja.
A person very well connected politically, move a lot of friends to get away with it, but it has to be on the Federal side and long term, not only
local.
Any other way, the Federal zone inspectors, would long ago, close the place and demolish the building, it is too obvious and public.
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Woooosh
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"National Land is not subjected to appropriation by possession, the act of possession the land gave those peoples no legal right."
" (To) legalize the land in the Rosarito area would be too problematic, because the developers would have to admit to the bank trusts that they did
not have a legal title and because they would have to pay the Nation for the land, they thought that they already owned."
===
I didn't know for sure you couldn't squat-for-title on National Land, but figured as much. Has anything changed since 2000 to move things in the
direction of straightening out the Rosarito Beach land titles? Calderon and Rosarito Beach mayor Robles met in Mexico City and agreed to move
forward on the boardwalk (Malecon) to boost tourism. I would think that project would draw a pretty good line down the sand that no one should
develop across.
Thanks for the public relations pitch on that video. I need all the help I can get. That tower is owned by Aries Management of Escondido, CA through
it's Mexico corporation- Grupo Aries. They were silly enough to put a "For sale" sign on it during construction in 2006. The phone number led back to
Aries. An American professional athlete is the main investor in "Playa Linda Rosarito". The house directly across the street from the tower is owned
by a Rosarito University professor- and he couldn't/didn't stop the tower from going in and had thought he had an ocean view for life. I do believe
this project got a nod from someone. I think this video showed them what "transparency" is though. I don't think they know how to handle this tower.
If they do the new boardwalk around it, it would be a statue to the corruption and it would be in peoples face every day. Grupo Aries would be
rewarded for breaking the law and be able to sell the only condos west of the Rosarito boardwalk at a premium. crime pays.
We met with the head of SEMARNAT in Rosarito soon after the video came out. When I told him it already had 1000 views, he asked how I knew that. I
told him there is a counter on it. I asked him why an American retiree had to fight with his fists to protect the beach for the people of Rosarito
when the family holds the 15 year Federal Title?
[Edited on 3-18-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Soulpatch
It is called ´Prescripcion´ and you have several kind of ´prescriciones´:
´Positiva´ if you on the side of having demonstrated the possession for 5 years, acquired it through a contract, but it was not formalized according
to the law; you go to the judge and ask to be declared owner by prescripcion positive, if nobody contest your claim, the judge rules that you are the
owner.
´Negativa¨ if you do not have any paper or way to acquire the land, you prove your possession of 10 or more years, then you go to the judge and ask to
be declared owner by ´prescripcion negativa´, if nobody contest your claim by proving they are the legal owners, the judge rules that you are the
owner.
If you prove that you have possessed the land for 20 or more years, even if you acquired the possesion by committing a crime like violence, but you
were never prosecuted for the crime if nobody contests your claim by proving they are the legal owners, the judge rules that you are the owner.
The law says that National land is not acquirable by any other mean but a National land title issued by the national land office and specifically says
it is not acquirable by prescripcion of any kind, it is not acquirable by any judge ruling and any other authority but the National land office; many
people try to isolate themselves by proving possession for another people and then getting the land from him by suing him for a debt, but it doesn’t
work forever and this is the case of most of Rosarito.
Concerning foreigners, remember that, the Mexican Constitution, does not allow, the not Mexicans, to own land on the forbidden strips of the borders
and the coasts; that is why the fideicomiso was invented; through the Fideicomiso, the foreigner does not own the land, the bank does, but the bank is
obligated to give the foreigner the possession for the life of the fideicomiso and is at this time the most secure way for a foreigner to have
temporal dominium over a Mexican property in the forbidden strips.
There are several ways used today to go around that absolute prohibition beside the Fideicomiso; you can acquire the land though a Mexican company
with the condition that you ask for permission by the Estate Department and this has been one of the most used by American developers to invest in the
Mexican forbidden strips, but this method is not limited by the size of the corporation or land lot.
Concerning National Land, you cannot acquire it by any other mean and it is a federal heavy criminal felony to buy it from other sources or acquire it
though a judge´s ruling, because the judge is obligated by law, to check if it is National land and if they do not do it, as is usual, his ruling over
National Land is void absolutely (like most of Rosarito) and it is even a federal crime to possess national Land without the proper official permit
and this is the case of most of the Rosarito developments.
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
For what I know, the land, that they were planning to use, for the side walk in Rosarito was sold by the National Land office, to a guy from Mexico
city named Jorge Duran in 1992 and that is the land between the Ejido Mazatlan (????) and the Federal Zone and since I have surveyed that area several
times trying unsuccessfully to locate the Ejido Mazatlan line border, we were only able to suppose that it is the two blocks beside the beach, from
Renes to CFE.
It was difficult to establish this because the official plans for the Ejido Mazatlan are a technical joke, absolutely useless to establish a exact
location, the best we could establish using Satellite positioning, was that the Ejido border is 1800 mts. inside on the sea and that, only because
they tried to fix the Ejido Position by making a map in 1992, that say that the official fixed point, is a Federal Zone marker 28B, but if you use it,
then the other side of the Ejido, go in on the sea 1800 mts, something impossible; also we found out that the Federal Zone markers were established in
1976 and it is impossible that a plan created in 1947 uses a 1976 marker to establish the fixed location.
In other words, everything that concern Ejido Mazatlan is crooked or false or nonexistent, especially their official plans and that is why they lost
against the CFE or Castillos del Mar or El Oasis where we were the technical experts.
This mean, that all the lots on the beach front side, in Rosarito Beach are inside this National Land procedure and will be subjected to returning the
possession to the National Land buyer and anyone who claim that he acquired it by any other mean, will be subjected to a criminal case for possessing
National land without a permit or allowance by the legal owner.- Do you think this is a farfetched affirmation? Just ask the guy that climed to own
the Ánimale night club´ on Rosarito Downtown, beside the Hotel Rosarito, the guy who said he was the owner, ended up arrested and avoided being
prosecuted by the Federal police, by signing a contract with this guy Jorge Duran in Mexico city a couple of years back.
This mean, that even Hotel Rosarito and Oceana and the other Torres group´s buildings, have legal problems coming for being over National Land already
oowned by other people, that will shake Rosarito in the near future, problems that will leave Punta Banda as only the tip of the iceberg.
The problems already started and the developers are trying desperately to cover them up, but as you say, it is impossible and that is why Rosarito has
to correct that problem now, not two years in the future becuse in that case, the demand for living units in two years, will just jump Rosarito and go
to other parts of Mexico without the land legality problem.
That is why Las Olas I and II, Oceana and all the other Torres Chavert buildings offer ´in house title insurance´ and I do not think buyers would buy
that one, in any other place in the world, but they do in Rosarito.
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Woooosh
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"The Rosarito Beach Condo-Hotel includes 192 one-bedroom, 65 two-bedroom and 14 penthouse units, all fully furnished. Financing is available in-house
and through Finance North America. Stewart Title insurance is offered for a secure investment."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2007_Feb_28/a...
The reason people "buy into" the in-house Title insurance at the Rosarito Beach Hotel Condo project is because Stewart Title is one of the most
trusted and common title insurance companies in the USA. Did they just use the same name or is the same company? Before the Gringo Gazette North was
run out of town by Torres, I remember an article that said a "preliminary approval " letter from Stewart Title letter was being shown to investors,
not an assurance that title insurance would or could be provided by them. If I was shown Stewart Title papers I would be pleased as a buyer and
likely not question it. And once again the name "Finance North America" comes up... the same people who offered the illegal condo tower near me for
sale, which was built directly on top of an old foundation surrounded by water- as you can see in the video you referenced.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
If you dig deep enough, you will find a company named Los Gatos based in Caiman Island for all the Torres developments and that would be the final
company resposible, while I hope any buyer can recover from that company any money, when the fireworks start.
Stewart Title insurance has an office in the Tijuana twin Towers and they asked me for all the information a few years back, they took it to a Texas
meeting where they talked about it with all Stewart title insurance people, but they have contineud to issue insurance papers with a lot of
limitations and the problem is in the fine print in those insurances.
The same thing is happening at Maravia in La Paz, they publicly have an American Title Insurance and the property has not legal title, they have a
sale based in a Colonial title, that is worth nothing, they are actually trying to buy the land from the National Land office, to cover the title
insurance conditions and that mean, the Title insurance companies, are issuing the title insurance without legal titles, based only on the developer
capacity to pay them back, in case of problems, but putting the condition for the developers to get the legal title.
I don´t think that is fair for the buyers at all, because they trust the title insurance to require the legal title.
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Dave
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Title Insurance
Worthless.
I would expect that the insurer would exclude any title defect such has been proposed here. 
Read the fine print.
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ramuma53
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Dave
Title insurance is actually a tool, to get the customer´s confidence and a cheap one; if you are a developer, that will develop a 30 acre land lot,
your title insurance will cost you US$5,000.00 and then use that confidence tool, to convince people to buy 275 houses at US$175,000.00 each, getting
USD$48´125,000.00 while you invested only USD$100,000 for the first house and build the rest with the customer advances, on a land lot that he bought
at USD$3.00 dlls/m2 and a total price of US$450,000.00 because it is National land disguised as private property through legal maneuvers.
Just ask the Torres group how much they spent in buying the lots for their towers and you will find where the big scam is and it is not only the
Torres group, they are only the example, there are 200 developments in the Rosarito coast that are in the same situation.
You will find that they got the land by extremely small amounts, from the city government or the ejido or just incredible contracts, because they know
they were buying land problems and they were betting on Hugo Torres Chavert political power, to hold them up against any legal problems, but guess
what, they have not been able to do it, the problems are there and nearing the legal end to start having legal actions and guest who will pay at the
end? THE BUYERS LIKE IN PUNTA BANDA.
Who will be discredited? Mexico like in Punta Banda.
But, why the American Consulate did not advised the Punta Banda customers to get out before the problem exploded? They had the correct information
about the problem in advance; I personally gave it to them and have letters from them to prove it.
Only because they believed the Baja governor that no problem would explode that may harm the American buyers, and he said that, because his cousin was
the Punta Banda developer. You know what happened after that and how Mexico got discredited.
Now we are on the road to 200 Punta Banda exactly alike problems and they keep denying the problem and hoping that they will hold the problem with
political power.
What I do not want is that Mexico get 200 times discredited as last time.
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GLNaeve
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Ramuma53
This topic of discussion appears to be centered around Rosirito Beach. Could we expand the area to Profepa, problem in BCS, perhaps Mulege area. I
too have some questions which are specific to that area, but fit in this topic.
"Fidio" holder in Coyote Bay, adjacent to the Federal Zone.
Thanks
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Cypress
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Thank you Lord! I was sold on relocating down on the Sea of Cortez side of Baja. Specifically the Mulege area. At that time, 2007-08, it was a sellers
market. No problem. But I'm a fisherman. Problem! The gill netters have moved fishing or should I say catching off the table. Sure, you can catch a
mess of fish, if you're a fisherman( Pompano, Pescadore), but the reality is~ no fish. Why? Gill nets/long lines. Thank goodness I have fishing
connections in areas where long lines and gill nets are illegal. Wish I could say the same about the Sea of Cortez.
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krafty
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Ramuma-would this not be like slitting their own throats? The guv. is trying to talk up buying down here to Americans, why would they want to kick
them out? Who would invest down here if that happened? The ex pats down here do a big service by spending our pesos here, especially with the recent
fail of tourism. Am i missing something?
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Cypress
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krafty, Slitting their own throats? Are you missing something? No. You've pretty much got it figured-out.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by krafty
Ramuma-would this not be like slitting their own throats? The guv. is trying to talk up buying down here to Americans, why would they want to kick
them out? Who would invest down here if that happened? The ex pats down here do a big service by spending our pesos here, especially with the recent
fail of tourism. Am i missing something? |
You can't grow the real estate market without it being fixed. Trump Baja and Punta Banda make it hard for people to trust right now. Fix the
paperwork. It sounds like there is a peso formula for violators to buy the national land back from the government.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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krafty
Super Nomad
Posts: 1052
Registered: 8-23-2010
Member Is Offline
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Why would these investors, such as in the Trump debacle, throw their money at something that is not even there? duh
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