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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Barry A.
I respect your point of view. I think where we do agree is that there is a profound history of racism in America. I think we can agree that the Irish,
Italians, Germans, Asians, Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics and people of minority genders and religions have all experienced discrimination. I
think we can agree that some of the groups named above have experienced racial discrimination. I won't cite resources or examples of these statements
unless someone requests that I do.
YES, VERY TRUE--------I JUST CANNOT GET EXCITED ABOUT IT, THO.
I also think that we can agree that racism and discrimination still exist in our society. I can cite resources and examples if requested to do so. I
believe that every one of us has seen or experienced this racism and discrimination in our lives either on the receiving end or on the delivery end or
possibly both.
YES, I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN IN SEVERAL SITUATIONS WHERE I, OR MY KIDS, WAS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, VERBALLY ANYWAY, AND IN ACTIVITIES. #1 WAS IN S.
OREGON WHILE RUNNING THE ROUGE RIVER FOR THE BLM IN 1985-----THE OREGONIANS AROUND ME, AND WORKING WITH ME, DID NOT HIDE THEIR CONTEMPT FOR
CALIFORNIANS WHICH I WAS---------MY REACTION, I LAUGHTED AND IGNORRED THEM AND ROLLED WITH THE PUNCHS. #2 IN THE OUTER BANKS OF NORTH
CAROLINA-------ALL OUTSIDERS WERE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, BOTH BY THE LOCAL WHITES, AND THE BLACKS ESPECIALLY, AND IT WAS FOCUSED ON MY KIDS WHO WERE
IN HIGH SCHOOL AT THE TIME. BOTH ME AND MY KIDS JUST LAUGHED AT IT, AND BEFRIENDED BOTH THE WHITES AND THE BLACKS. #3 LIVED IN VERNAL, UTAH FOR 4
YEARS, AND VERNAL IS WAY MORMON-----WE WERE EXCLUDED FROM SOME SOCIAL FUNCTIONS, AND GENERALLY HAD A BAD TIME DOING BUSINESS, FOR A WHILE, BUT SOON
BEFRIENDED ALMOST ALL OF THE MORMONS WE WORKED WITH, AND SOCIALLIZED WITH AND THERE WERE NO MORE REAL PROBLEMS.
You and I might differ on how to address these issues, but ignoring them is not in my view an option. I think that we both can agree that racism and
discrimination is abuse. On a psychological level I know that acknowledgement of wrong is a necessary part of healing or resolve of abuse. I think we
can agree that denial of racism and discrimination does not stop it.
LIFE ENCOUNTERS ALL TYPES OF MINOR "ABUSE"-----IT'S JUST A FACT, AND HUMAN NATURE. NOBODY IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT, NOBODY!!! IMO. I DON'T CLASSIFY
RACISM AS "ABUSE"-----IT'S JUST A FACT OF LIFE, BUT TO A VERY SMALL DEGREE ANYMORE, OR AT LEAST THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE. IN OTHER WORDS IT IS NOT A BIG
DEAL, AND YES, I AND MY KIDS JUST IGNOR IT.
I believe we can agree that as a country we have made progress in the area of race relationships. I assume we can agree that some people operate with
a "victim" mentality and "persecute" others from that position while others play the role of “rescuer”. I believe that there is a psychological dance
that involves moving from the victim to the rescuer or persecutor position. I believe that like a musical triad there are innumerable dances that can
occur using these steps.
THAT IS WAY TO HEAVY FOR ME----------MY LAZY MIND CANNOT GRASP THOSE TENETS--------BUT YES, I AM SURE THAT HAPPENS.
I see these dynamics play out in our discussions on either side of the political spectrum. (I actually think that rather than a linier measure with
the right/left, I think it is a circle and where the right and left meet is Libertarianism).
SORTA AGREE WITH THIS
Here is how the dance goes:
#1 starts out persecuting i.e. "Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
Then #2 says then rescues the minority, or in this case minorities “That is a racist statement”
Then #1 assumes the victim position and persecutes #2 “how dare you accuse me of being racist. You Liberals are always playing the race card”.
Then #2 either responds from the victim position and defends their position or goes prosecutorial and attacks.
The problem as I see it is that this sort of dialogue is a psychological game and that is why resolution is so elusive. I have experienced you
attempting to come to genuine understanding and resolution, as your last post to me demonstrates. In my view there are reasonable solutions to the
problems we address. This requires that each person understand and acknowledge the logical assertions of the other person.
THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT YOU TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY, AND I DON'T. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO RESOLVE THAT-----I STILL DON'T THINK IT IS A BIG DEAL.
In my view there are real facts however there are masters of spin afloat with the goal of polarizing the electorate in order that the real issues are
not addressed. Again I would direct all readers to the website of Republican Buddy Roemer. http://www.buddyroemer.com/meet-buddy
I believe that Buddy Roemer is the only political candidate who is actually addressing the very real problems that our nation faces. He however cannot
get air time because he only accepts $100 donations and refuses to be bundled and sold by Corporations or Corporate Media. I believe that this
candidate addresses many of the fundamental issues that have corroded and undermined our political landscape. I believe that both the left and right
can agree with him on many issues. There is common ground if we can move out of the dance we are now engaged in.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues
AGREE WITH YOU--------ALL GOOD POINTS--------AND ROEMER HAS HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD, BUT I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY FOLKS ARE SO UPSET WITH ALL
THIS. STUFF HAPPENS!!!
This thread was started based upon a question, that question is whether or not the Republican focus on Illegal Immigration would alienate Hispanic
Voters. The discussion devolved into a discussion of racism, one of the potential reasons that Hispanics might not vote Republican. I believe that we
saw a reasonable discussion descend into a dance of persecutor/rescuer/victim and resolution eluded us.
I ADMIT THAT THE ISSUE ALIENATES SOME HISPANICS------I CAN'T HELP THAT, AND I THINK THEY ARE WRONG, AND LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO BLAME.
My view is that the focus on Illegal Immigration, Birther issues, Reproductive rights etc. are red herring that direct our legitimate frustrations and
anger away from the rot that is at the core of our political apple. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are addressing these issues. The voting public
has been shaped into believing that issues like these, including the national debt, deregulation and taxes are the fundamental issues that face us
today. I believe that the Corporatization of politics in America is the fundamental issue that must be addressed. Buddy Roemer has put them front and
center of his campaign. He is the ONLY one who is doing so and he can get virtually NO AIR TIME. His agenda is not in the interest of the top 1%,
Corporate Politicians, Corporations and the Corporate Media who makes big bucks on political campaigns.
The Corporatization of American Politics is an issue that I believe unites the concerns of both the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movements.
I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THE IMMEDIATE ABOVE AS TO THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ISSUES YOU CITE AS "IMPORTANT'. THE ISSUES YOU BELIEVE ARE "RED HERRINGS" ARE
MOSTLY THE MAIN ISSUES, TO ME ANYWAY. THE "IMPORTANT" ISSUES YOU CITE ARE THERE, FOR SURE, BUT THERE IS LITTLE YOU OR I CAN DO ABOUT THEM. BUT THEN
I HAVE LEARNED TO OPERATE IN THE EXISTING SYSTEM, RECOGNIZE IT'S CORRUPTION, GET AROUND IT TO PROSPER, FIGHT IT WHEN IT DIRECTLY CONFRONTS ME OR IS
WITHIN MY CONTROL, AND GET ON WITH LIFE AND MAKING A LIVING. I STILL STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE SYSTEM WE HAVE ADOPTED IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE BEST
AVAILABLE, AND DON'T WANT IT TO BE SCRAPPED FOR SOME UTOPIAN STATE THAT THE LEFTIES DREAM ABOUT, BUT WILL NEVER OBTAIN AS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, AGAINST
HUMAN NATURE, NOBODY OR "STATE" CAN AFFORD IT, AND IT WOULD BE BORING ANYWAY.
I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHFULNESS ON THIS, BUT I JUST CANNOT GET THAT EXCITED ABOUT TEARING DOWN THE AMERICAN DREAM WHICH I AM LIVING TODAY------AND
ANYBODY ELSE CAN 'LIVE' IF THEY WATCH AND LEARN. IT IS RELATIVELY EASY, YOU KNOW. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYBODY CAN. JUST DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE
CORRUPTION, AND YOU WILL BE FINE. ME AND MY FAMILY ARE LIVING PROOF OF THIS.
Iflyfish |
Fish------those are all reasonable assumptions------I will try and address some of them in CAPS above-----
Barry
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Fish: Very Good Post:
Most of the so-called Racism we see and hear about is those People who try to use it to better their own position in an Argument or Discussion.
Most of the race problem that I have seen oaccurred when I worked in South Central LA, Oakland and San Francisco later and has bee all based in the
Negro Culture.
Unfortunaly People base the Accoumplishments of a Group on its Color.
Falsey many people have been taught by those Lying Loberal professors that the Problem with the Negros is the Fault of the present Day White people.
It is very similar to the Accusing of the Rich People and Wall Street as the Fault of the People who do not really want to work and are seeking
someone to Blame.
A Good example on this Board is Goat and Joe who are Poor Dumb Liberals who have not be able to Succeed in Life and Now Blame America and the Rich for
their own Failures.
Their Hate for anything that does not fit into their Scheme of taking the Money from the Rich and giving it to the Poor DOPERS they accuse of being
RAcist
Well I am off to do something tried and True for my Life and maybe the life of some Choldren in Need.
I am going to the MuleSkinners meeting at the Amarillo Khiva Shrine Temple. Will eat dinner, Talk and donate a few Dollars for the Childrens Hospital
We have a large Temple and the MuleSkinners cook dinner for various Groups all over Amarillo and all money goes to our Burn Unit in Galveston,Texas..
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Gypsy Jan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4275
Registered: 1-27-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Depends on which way the wind is blowing
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Skeet, I Respect Your Viewpoint
And respect your considerable life experience.
But using the phrase, "those people", is written confirmation of racism and and it is a distinct contravention of legitimate profiling which operates
on an individual basis, through due process
The use of the phrase "those people", diminishes and dismisses the plight of the poor, completely law abiding people desperate to make a better life
for themselves and their families.
Sincerely yours, GJ
[Edited on 10-26-2011 by Gypsy Jan]
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Barry A.
"I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHFULNESS ON THIS, BUT I JUST CANNOT GET THAT EXCITED ABOUT TEARING DOWN THE AMERICAN DREAM WHICH I AM LIVING TODAY------AND
ANYBODY ELSE CAN 'LIVE' IF THEY WATCH AND LEARN. IT IS RELATIVELY EASY, YOU KNOW. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYBODY CAN. JUST DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE
CORRUPTION, AND YOU WILL BE FINE. ME AND MY FAMILY ARE LIVING PROOF OF THIS."
I very much doubt that your "American Dream" is somehow attached to Corporate Interests owning our political system. It seems to me that you have
prospered through hard work not by the good graces of the current holders of PUBLIC office who are beholding to special interests that trump the
interests of the voting public. Both of the political parties now must generate millions of dollars each week to pay for their political advertising.
The job of a PUBLIC servant now is to generate dollars to fund their political campaigns and the war chests of the parties they belong to. This fund
raising goes on every day, 365 days of the year.  UBLIC office now is a continual
round of fundraising and seeing to it that you are addressing the interests of those who fund you.
Corporate funding outways public funding by a mile. Our elected PUBLIC officials can now say with impunity "Now Job Number 1 is to be sure that the
present President is not re-elected"
Their job is no longer dealing with the jobs crisis, the health and welfare of the general public, cops on the street, good schools, good roads and
bridges. the job of PUBLIC service is a political job generating money for political advertising and servicing the Corporate clients. There is no
incentive to cooperate and seriously negotiate differences as long as they serve the interests of those who lobby for their special interests.
This does not serve the PUBLIC interest. The current people who occupy these PUBLIC offices and how they view their job is the problem, not the system
as designed by our founding fathers. I am not for taking down the political system, but taking the money out of it. I am not a utopian in this effort,
just a person who wants PUBLIC SERVANTS whose primary interest is servign the PUBLIC.
I have voted Democrat for many years. However neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are addressing the issues that this 4 term Congressman and
Governor are addressing, that is the rot at the core of our apple.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues
Someone who advocates taking the money out of politics is someone who has the interest of the general Public in mind. He has no chance though because
he has no Corporate Sponsors and Corporate Media are well aware that he does not represent their economic interest.
In my view it aught to be the corruption of Washington that turns off voters since it is the single most important issue that faces our country right
now and it is an issue that most everyone can understand and get behind.
Iflyfish
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
And respect your considerable life experience.
But using the phrase, "those people", is written confirmation of racism and and it is a distinct contravention of legitimate profiling which operates
on an individual basis, through due process
The use of the phrase "those people", diminishes and dismisses the plight of the poor, completely law abiding people desperate to make a better life
for themselves and their families.
Sincerely yours, GJ
[Edited on 10-26-2011 by Gypsy Jan] |
Good grief, Gypsy---------I know you were not addressing this to me, but for heavens sake, I refer to my neighbors as "those people" when their party
goes on after midnight. 
----and also "those people" that speed up and down the freeway with loud exhaust which is only a half block from my house are often called "those
people" at 3 am in the morning, and worse---------there is NO RACISM there at all.
It is a convenient way to refer to other groups of people when trying to make a point.............
(I am gettin nowhere here, I can just feel it..........) 
A true Venus/Mars situation.........again!!!!
Barry
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Barry A.
"I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHFULNESS ON THIS, BUT I JUST CANNOT GET THAT EXCITED ABOUT TEARING DOWN THE AMERICAN DREAM WHICH I AM LIVING TODAY------AND
ANYBODY ELSE CAN 'LIVE' IF THEY WATCH AND LEARN. IT IS RELATIVELY EASY, YOU KNOW. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYBODY CAN. JUST DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE
CORRUPTION, AND YOU WILL BE FINE. ME AND MY FAMILY ARE LIVING PROOF OF THIS."
I very much doubt that your "American Dream" is somehow attached to Corporate Interests owning our political system. It seems to me that you have
prospered through hard work not by the good graces of the current holders of PUBLIC office who are beholding to special interests that trump the
interests of the voting public. Both of the political parties now must generate millions of dollars each week to pay for their political advertising.
The job of a PUBLIC servant now is to generate dollars to fund their political campaigns and the war chests of the parties they belong to. This fund
raising goes on every day, 365 days of the year. UBLIC office now is a continual
round of fundraising and seeing to it that you are addressing the interests of those who fund you.
Corporate funding outways public funding by a mile. Our elected PUBLIC officials can now say with impunity "Now Job Number 1 is to be sure that the
present President is not re-elected"
Their job is no longer dealing with the jobs crisis, the health and welfare of the general public, cops on the street, good schools, good roads and
bridges. the job of PUBLIC service is a political job generating money for political advertising and servicing the Corporate clients. There is no
incentive to cooperate and seriously negotiate differences as long as they serve the interests of those who lobby for their special interests.
This does not serve the PUBLIC interest. The current people who occupy these PUBLIC offices and how they view their job is the problem, not the system
as designed by our founding fathers. I am not for taking down the political system, but taking the money out of it. I am not a utopian in this effort,
just a person who wants PUBLIC SERVANTS whose primary interest is servign the PUBLIC.
I have voted Democrat for many years. However neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are addressing the issues that this 4 term Congressman and
Governor are addressing, that is the rot at the core of our apple.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues
Someone who advocates taking the money out of politics is someone who has the interest of the general Public in mind. He has no chance though because
he has no Corporate Sponsors and Corporate Media are well aware that he does not represent their economic interest.
In my view it aught to be the corruption of Washington that turns off voters since it is the single most important issue that faces our country right
now and it is an issue that most everyone can understand and get behind.
Iflyfish
Iflyfish |
Absolutely correct, if only they (the politicians) will. I certainly cannot disagree with you on this point. Well stated, too.
When you refer to "PUBLIC servants", I assume you are referring to the Washington poags and not the folks in the field, which I was one of. Even tho
I was in Management with BLM, I seldom felt any pressure from Washington, and even when I did I mostly ignorred it. That did not do my "upward
mobility" much good, and in fact when it did get tiresome, I simply downgraded myself (GS-12 to GS-9) and went back to the field as a Ranger and
enjoyed the last 10 years of my "career" without the BS of dealing with whiners and bean-counters. My stock investments in Corporations allowed me to
do that---------a real luxury, I admit.
Tho I sometimes wince a little at the way Skeet says things, I mostly agree with him (maybe more than "mostly"??)-----he is a no-nonsense kind of guy,
and I like that. Maybe it is an "age thing" with both of us----we both know what "works for us".
Barry
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Here is Chris Hays interviewing former Governor/ 4 term Republican Congressman, Buddy Roemer. I think you will find it interesting whether you are
Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal. He has very little exposure because he only accepts $100 donations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9u8eiPNNI&feature=relmf...
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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I think you, Skeet and I can all get behind what Buddy Roemer is saying. I would love to see him on the stage with the rest of the Republican
candidates. Can't you just see him kicking Obama's mule in a general election talking about these issues? He is willing to name names and call it like
he sees it. I admire that and am sure you would also. He is addressing in my view the fundamental issue that we are all dealing with and why Congress
has a 12% approval rating. Check out http://buddyroemer.com/issues
I probably would not vote for Roemer, but I would love to see him focus the debate on a worthwhile topic rather than Womans Health Decisions, Gays and
who is the most Religious or Conservative. Aren't you also sick of these petty debates? I sure am.
Iflyfish
[Edited on 10-27-2011 by Iflyfish]
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Here is Chris Hays interviewing former Governor/ 4 term Republican Congressman, Buddy Roemer. I think you will find it interesting whether you are
Republican/Democrat, Conservative/Liberal. He has very little exposure because he only accepts $100 donations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9u8eiPNNI&feature=relmf...
Iflyfish |
Sounds good to me. Go Buddy Roemer!!!! I don't know anything about him, tho.
Barry
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Buddy Roemer is probably the only honest guy running this election cycle which is why he stands a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting any press
coverage, much less elected...
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Buddy Stassen
Given the fact that Buddy could fit his support inside a restroom, if not a phone booth (wherever one can still be found), his running for President
is either simply 1. An attempt to expand his name recognition for other political purposes or 2. He's NUTS.
In any case, he's one of those Gadfly events that surfaces in every election cycle.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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MrBillM
Have you gone to the links I posted and listened to what he has to say? I would think that any of us could get behind what this guy is saying. Is it
possible that he is actually wanting to change the fact that Congress has been Corporatized and that negates the voice of the people these Public
Servants are elected to represent?
Is it possible that the system as it now exists excludes voiices of candidates with real issues to raise. Is is possible that a candidate, even if not
elected can change the focus of the campaign? How do you think that the debates would look if one of the Republicans were confronting the issue of
corruption at the heart of our political system? How do you think Obama would react to being called out over his Wall Street and Bank sponsorship?
It only takes one voice to raise these issues and put them front and center in the next political cycle.
I doubt that Roemer is motivated by either narcissistic reasons nor do I think he is crazy. In fact he makes way more sense than any of the candidates
now the campaign trail and that included Obama in my view.
The system is corrupt to the core and that issue needs to be addressed if we are actually going to have a government that represents us. Right now it
is the best Congress money can buy and the Corporations have unlimited right to dump miney into Corporate Media campaigns and you and I do not. So
whose candidates are these guys anyway? Look at who these Super PACS are composed of! Corporate money, millions and millions of Corporate money, so
who then is the candidate accountable to?
Check out what Buddy Roemer has to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9u8eiPNNI&feature=relmf...
I am a life long Democrat and I am inviting you to listen to this Republican Governor/4 term Congressman and then see if you can still say he is nuts.
All this talk of Illegal Immigration, what people do with their sex organs, Woman's Health issues, maintaining tax breaks for the wealthiest 1% of our
population and their Corporate buddies are just distracting us from the underlying problem of the corruption of our political system that
disenfranchises all of us who are not in those categories.
Iflyfish
Iflyfish
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Buddy Banter
Without much effort, it would no doubt be possible to find thousands who make the same sense he does who don't think they have a RatsAss chance to
influence the Presidential race.
IF (as stated), his motives are NOT as I described and he DOES think his voice will have any influence, then he is, without doubt,
DELUSIONAL.
At least I gave him the benefit of a reasonable motive.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Given the fact that Buddy could fit his support inside a restroom, if not a phone booth (wherever one can still be found), his running for President
is either simply 1. An attempt to expand his name recognition for other political purposes or 2. He's NUTS.
In any case, he's one of those Gadfly events that surfaces in every election cycle. |
you forgot option 3, like pizza cain, philandering dough boy, palin (the non-candidate) and whacko bachman, he is running as a job, using the
donations to live on, sell books, employ his cronies, etc. like cain and bachman and doughboy, no on says you have to be serious candidate, you just
got to stick your mug out their to fleece the suckers.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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sanquintinsince73
Super Nomad
Posts: 1494
Registered: 6-8-2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
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What part do the "ChiCom" own??
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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So, if a person "owns" , lets say, 20 acres of land, he or she is a what %'er? Ownership of how much land is OK? Who decides how much and who gets it.
Uganda has already taken those "progressive" measures. Maybe we could just follow Uganda's example. Then all we'd have to worry about would be our
next meal.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Re-distribution (communism/ socialism) has failed everywhere it was tried... but the left doesn't learn from the past.
Excellence, hard work, smart decisions should be rewarded, not punished.
'Corporations' only have wealth because the people freely buy their products... that is democracy. You vote for the corporation with your dollars.
Also, corporations don't pay taxes but their customers do as the cost of making their product (including corporate tax) is included in the price. You
raise the corporate tax, you just made their product more expensive for everyone to buy!
The people demonstrating want no responsibility for their actions or life choices. They want someone else to take care of them, pay for their choices
or lifestyles, and sponge off others who have worked hard.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Re-distribution (communism/ socialism) has failed everywhere it was tried... but the left doesn't learn from the past.
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extreme income inequality(self-interested extreme of capitalism) has caused social strife and political instability almost everywhere it has
occurred... but the rich don't learn from the past.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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David K
"The people demonstrating want no responsibility for their actions or life choices. They want someone else to take care of them, pay for their choices
or lifestyles, and sponge off others who have worked hard."
Yup, there is no one in the Occupy Wall Street movement who is complaining about unemployment at 9+ percent nationwide. Every one can get a job if
they want. Same as the Great Depression, if someone really wanted a job they could have one. If someone does not have a job they must be lazy or
morally corrupt.
What does the sign say in this Occupy Wall Street picture? Must be a plant since no one in that crowd wants a job.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/conservatives-to-...
These people are not protesting in support of the Jobs Bill.
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/10/13/news/augusta/wall-stre...
These people are not complaining about how Wall Street and the Banks bundled their mortgages and sold them at inflated prices all around the world
thereby creating the greatest ecomonic crisis since the Great Depression thereby creating unprecidented unemployment. We have our jobs, have earned a
good living. If we can do it then they can too.
They are not complaining about real wages falling over the last 30 years while Corporate income and the income of the top executives of those
Corporations have sky rocketed.
They are not complaining about how their jobs have been sent overseas by International Corporations. This is all just a chance for them to party and
smoke dope.
Nope, the real problems are Illegal Immigration, what people do with their sex organs, what women do with their uteruses, that taxes are too high and
regulations too much for Corporations and the people who earn over a million dollars per year. These people are just lazey people who want to camp out
on the streets in the rain and cold. Just a bunch of lazy muchers who want to take our money.
Republican Presidential Candidate Buddy Roemer is wrong about how the corruption in Washington has destroyed the middle class and sent jobs over seas
because it is Corporations that now own our govenment and don't care about the high unemployment except how that issue affects their generating
revenue for their 24/7 need to fill their campaign coffers.
Here is what Roemer said to a Conservative Blogger
"Here's what he told American Conservative blogger Rod Dreher today:
“I think conservatives believe in first principles. They believe that hard work should be rewarded. They believe that this country is great because
it’s been generally free. And conservatives see that that’s disappearing. They see now that a big check can take the place of a big idea. They see now
that the structure is not for the base, but is for the peak. It’s for the top one or two percent. They see Wall Street riddled with fraudulent
documents. They see it riddled with the attitude of 'let’s fire Americans and go overseas.' They see it riddled with things that have had and will
have bad effects on this economy.”
“We have almost permanent unemployment,” he continued. “They say it’s nine percent, but the real unemployment rate is more like 16 percent. These are
people there are no jobs for, or they have to work part time to try to make ends meet. It’s disturbing. the Wall Street protest is unshaped,
unfocused, but there’s a lot of power in it. We need the courage to go back to conservative principles — that is, the reward of hard work, the sense
of fair play, the belief in individual strength rather than government solutions. To me, the Wall Street protests reflect all these sorts of things.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65378.html#ixzz1c5...
Concervative Republican Buddy Roemer has joined the Occupy Wall Street Movement so he must:
"The people demonstrating want no responsibility for their actions or life choices. They want someone else to take care of them, pay for their choices
or lifestyles, and sponge off others who have worked hard."
Shame on Buddy Roemer
http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/dailycaller/20111019/pl_dailycal...
Iflyfish
[Edited on 10-28-2011 by Iflyfish]
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