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oxxo
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Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  |
The problem with touchscreens is that you must take your eyes off the road to use them. My gas car (2018) has a combination of controls. The commonly
used controls, like air conditioning, sound system volume, radio station select, and others, are good old-fashioned buttons/dials. I can make
adjustments without looking.
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I have used a touch screen on my car for 6 years now. Actually I pay MORE attention to the road with a touch screen than with buttons and knobs. The
touch screens on new BEVs are the size of 15" to 17" laptops and are located to the upper right of the steering wheel. Even though much of my
adjustments are done through "muscle memory" (like i used to do with problematic buttons and dials) I can easily make any adjustments while keeping my
focus on BOTH the road and screen in my line of sight. It does take a couple of days to get used to it, but once you do, you never want to go back to
buttons and dials.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by surfhat | I can't recall where at the moment, but a similar discussion about EV's claimed because of the battery weight, the tires were polluting the roadway by
wearing out prematurely and leaving rubber tire parts behind on the roadways and this was reason enough to discount EV's earth friendly properties.
Really? I'm afraid so. I thought it was a ridiculous reason to never buy an EV and call them unfriendly to Mother Earth.
Thanks Nomads for a lively discussion with a minimal amount of denial bs from the usual suspects. haha |
Yes, BEVs tend to be heavier than a comparable ICE vehicle because of the weight of the traction batteries. HOWEVER, new technology is producing
lighter batteries with longer range and tire technology is now takng BEVs seriously by producing tires with equal or longer life than a comparable
ICE vehicle. And of course, ICE vehicles never "leave rubber tire parts" on the road or off road out in the desert! (snark)
Leaving rubber tire parts on the road by BEVs is false and an urban legend.
After 6 years, the front windshield on my son-in-laws Tesla suddenly cracked this last Saturday! OMG, ALL BEVs are subject to cracked windshields!!!
Well, truth be told, he clearly saw a large bolt come flying through the air and hit him square in the middle of his windshield. He was peeed but
resigned to buy a new windshield.
Okay, who wants to claim that BEVs are subject to catch fire? I'm ready!
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
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I once had a freak accident in my son-in-law's car that he had loaned me for a few hours. I was driving along a two lane road, in fairly heavy
Saturday traffic, when a pickup coming from the other direction had an unsecured wheelbarrow fly off the back of his truck, straight at my windshield.
Had there not been an adequate shoulder to swerve onto, and my reactions not been quick when I saw that airborne wheelbarrow coming straight at me, I
would have probably been dead or seriously injured. It hit the edge of the windsheld, cracking it, took out the side view mirror and scraped along the
driver's and rear passenger door before falling to the road.
The driver didn't even realize what had happened- he just saw the wheelbarrow fly off in his rear view mirror, didn't see it hit me, pulled over to
retreive it, and when I yelled out at him, he said, "It's okay, I'm getting my wheelbarrow". I said, "It's not okay- you just totalled my son-in-law's
car, and almost killed me!". He was really shocked, but turned out to be a nice guy. We drove to the cop shop together, which was only 2 blocks away,
rather than call and wait, and he accepted full responsibilty for an unsecured load.
[Edited on 6-17-2024 by surabi]
[Edited on 6-17-2024 by surabi]
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SFandH
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You're really on the soapbox. Electron Evangelist OXXO. I don't think anybody here is anti-BEV. They seem to work well and are getting better,
cheaper, and the infrastructure is expanding.
But, I have a question about used BEVs. Let's say there are two used BEVs, same year, make, model, and mileage. Could there be a big difference in the
life left in the battery packs because of different charging routines?
[Edited on 6-17-2024 by SFandH]
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JDCanuck
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Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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Just checked at Maranatha campground in La Paz and they do provide full recharge of electric vehicles at 500 pesos using their 50 amp 240v chargers
which amounts to about 6 hours for most vehicles like Teslas if you have the adapter to plug in. If you RV there, the overnight cost with 50a 240v
power to run your RV accessories and including water and sewage hookups is 720 pesos, if you hook up to a 30 amp, its 600 pesos with water and sewer.
I found these prices on the low end compared to other RV campgrounds.
Temperatures right now are running 38 c during the day, so I'm sure almost everyone is using the RV AC units to the max.
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6027
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Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
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About a year ago, I was buying fuel at a local bulk plant when a tow truck with a Tesla onboard pulled up across from me. It wasn't wrecked but had
high centered on some ornamental rock work bordering his driveway.
I don't know the age of the Tesla, but it was being totaled because repairs would exceed the value of the vehicle.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by surfhat | I can't recall where at the moment, but a similar discussion about EV's claimed because of the battery weight, the tires were polluting the roadway by
wearing out prematurely and leaving rubber tire parts behind on the roadways and this was reason enough to discount EV's earth friendly properties.
Really? I'm afraid so. I thought it was a ridiculous reason to never buy an EV and call them unfriendly to Mother Earth.
Thanks Nomads for a lively discussion with a minimal amount of denial bs from the usual suspects. haha |
Yes, BEVs tend to be heavier than a comparable ICE vehicle because of the weight of the traction batteries. HOWEVER, new technology is producing
lighter batteries with longer range and tire technology is now takng BEVs seriously by producing tires with equal or longer life than a comparable
ICE vehicle. And of course, ICE vehicles never "leave rubber tire parts" on the road or off road out in the desert! (snark)
Leaving rubber tire parts on the road by BEVs is false and an urban legend.
After 6 years, the front windshield on my son-in-laws Tesla suddenly cracked this last Saturday! OMG, ALL BEVs are subject to cracked windshields!!!
Well, truth be told, he clearly saw a large bolt come flying through the air and hit him square in the middle of his windshield. He was peeed but
resigned to buy a new windshield.
Okay, who wants to claim that BEVs are subject to catch fire? I'm ready! |
I checked my Leaf weight and it was comparable to an equivalent gas powered SUV with the same torque, so really is not an issue there. And SF&H:
yes of course, depending on how it was charged so when you buy used you will want to check thee battery condition before you make your decision.
[Edited on 6-18-2024 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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Any new to you vehicle has idiosyncracies you need to learn. I am presently driving a 2005 Toyota Camry and its making me appreciate my Leaf for
simplicity of controls and operation. The biggest issue to now has been holding this ICE vehicle on a hill and then driving off either in drive or
reverse. The Camry will drift downhill as soon as you begin to release the brake, the Leaf is rock still as it senses the grade and doesn't move til
you hit the accelerator. Some friends have stated their IC vehicles will do this as well.
Also, almost all common controls are located on the steering wheel, but in addition can be accessed through the display. Exceptions are setting up
blutooth audio controls, linking your phone etc. but you are unlikely to be doing this while driving. The only thing you might access while driving is
your route map display. The audio directions come in audibly.
[Edited on 6-17-2024 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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By the way, if any of you has used GPS Google maps on the freeways in audio mode lately should appreciate the announcement of speed traps ahead and
also that it monitors your actual speed and not the often inaccurate speed displayed on your speedometer. When driving at 80mph through Utah, we found
it a huge advantage.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | [
But, I have a question about used BEVs. Let's say there are two used BEVs, same year, make, model, and mileage. Could there be a big difference in the
life left in the battery packs because of different charging routines? |
Oh yes, there could be a major difference. BEV traction batteries work best when they are charged to 70% to 80% of maximum, UNLESS you will be
embarking on a long trip and leaving within a couple of hours, then you should charge to 100% (this is the strategy I use). The quickest way to ruin
a traction battery pack is to charge it to 100% and leave it parked for a couple of days. So, the condition of that battery pack compared to a model
with equal mileage will depend on how that traction battery packed was charged/maintained over those miles. Always best to require a test of of that
battery pack on any used BEV. FWIW, used Teslas marketed through Tesla includes a Service Center check of the battery condition with a written
report, but those used cars are more expensive. Worst alternative is buying a used BEV from a used car dealer who bought the car at auction with NO
guarantee on the battery.
Interesting both my laptop and cell phone have a "battery saver" mode which limits my charging to 60% on the laptop and 80% on the cell phone. I use
both to prolong battery life.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo |
I don't know the age of the Tesla, but it was being totaled because repairs would exceed the value of the vehicle. |
I saw a newer Toyota once on a flatbed with no visible damage anywhere. It was being totaled because the cost of repairs exceeded the value of the
car. The tow driver mumbled something about engine and cv joints.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18377
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | [
But, I have a question about used BEVs. Let's say there are two used BEVs, same year, make, model, and mileage. Could there be a big difference in the
life left in the battery packs because of different charging routines? |
Oh yes, there could be a major difference. BEV traction batteries work best when they are charged to 70% to 80% of maximum, UNLESS you will be
embarking on a long trip and leaving within a couple of hours, then you should charge to 100% (this is the strategy I use). The quickest way to ruin
a traction battery pack is to charge it to 100% and leave it parked for a couple of days. So, the condition of that battery pack compared to a model
with equal mileage will depend on how that traction battery packed was charged/maintained over those miles. Always best to require a test of of that
battery pack on any used BEV. FWIW, used Teslas marketed through Tesla includes a Service Center check of the battery condition with a written
report, but those used cars are more expensive. Worst alternative is buying a used BEV from a used car dealer who bought the car at auction with NO
guarantee on the battery.
Interesting both my laptop and cell phone have a "battery saver" mode which limits my charging to 60% on the laptop and 80% on the cell phone. I use
both to prolong battery life. |
I often fill my ICE car with fuel, to the top, 100%, and no damage to my car!  Sure is inconvenient that a fill up of an EV damages the battery so you only fill up to 70%  But at least you got a screen and can watch Netflix while having to fill up more frequently with little charges.
So a battery advertised with 300 mile range can only be filled up 70 percent, so actual useable range is 210 miles, eh?
[Edited on 6-17-2024 by mtgoat666]
[Edited on 6-17-2024 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | And SF&H: yes of course, depending on how it was charged so when you buy used you will want to check thee battery condition before you make your
decision. |
How do you do that, and how do you know what's good vs. bad?
What's needed is a battery version of an ICE compression check.
[Edited on 6-18-2024 by SFandH]
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JDCanuck
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We charge our EV regularly at lowered wattage to 100% all the time and our range has actually increased very slightly from where it was when we bought
the car used. I have no idea how you would check your battery deterioration but am sure someone will come up with a quick method to do so similar to
how they test the state of your 12v batteries. We would not charge on a DC high wattage charger from 10-100% and we will stop the high wattage DC
charge at 80%, then if needed would plug into our 120v 12 amp charge at home to bring it up to 100%. In 4 months of use, we have never needed a high
wattage DC charge yet, but I did try one out for 15 min just to see how it worked.
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JDCanuck
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If I were one of those people who have severe misgivings, I would buy a 3 yr old used EV with maybe 30,000 to 40,000 miles on it. Price should be
about 50-60% of new since Hertz dumped a whole lot on the market and the batteries should last 6 to 10 more years at above 80% of full capacity based
on warranties. If it gets below that in the next 5 years the manufacturer will replace it. Give me an IC manufacturer that warranties a new drive
train past 5 years let alone 8 years.
But even at 80% capacity in 6 years, a 300 mile range will be above 240 miles, which was what the Leafs could do brand new in 2023.
Our only regret so far is we bought a used Leaf rather than a used Tesla. There simply weren't any used Teslas listed for a reasonable used price.
Tesla is staying up to date and expanding their capabilities for previous buyers without extra costs to the purchaser. Leafs on the other hand, you
get what you paid for initially and are left on your own for upgrades.
[Edited on 6-18-2024 by JDCanuck]
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | Price should be about 50% of new and the batteries should last 6 to 10 more years at above 80% of full capacity based on warranties. If it gets below
that in the next 5 years the manufacturer will replace it.. |
I don't know anything about other BEV mfg manufacturer warranties. I know specifically about TESLA battery warranty. Tesla traction batteries are
guaranteed to be at 70% of maximum capacity after 100K miles and then the warranty terminates. Less than 100K miles and less than 70% of capacity,
you get a totally new traction battery pack under warranty (which is currently about $10K to replace on a Tesla vehicle without warranty). Some Tesla
BEVs are still going strong after over 200K miles and more, as a result of responsible traction battery maintenance/charging.
So, it is important to determine what the health is of your traction batteries are before buying a used BEV. It is not that difficult, it just
requires some personal responsibility, and we're here to help.
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oxxo
Banned
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck |
Our only regret so far is we bought a used Leaf rather than a used Tesla. There simply weren't any used Teslas listed for a reasonable used price.
Tesla is staying up to date and expanding their capabilities for previous buyers without extra costs to the purchaser. |
After about 70K miles, my car is BETTER than when i bought it new new (and also less expensive compared to a new one of equal specs) as a result of of
included OTA upgrades over 6 years. Tesla's are in the middle as far as premium vehicles resale are concerned. You get what you pay for. Would I
buy a used Tesla? I doubt it. I can afford to buy a new Tesla, get an obscene resale value, for less than what I paid for mine with significant
improvements (like dual pane windows to make the cars even quieter than my 6 y.o. car).
| Quote: | | Leafs on the other hand, you get what you paid for initially and are left on your own for upgrades |
In most cases , like mine, OTA improvements are at no additional cost, which occur in the middle of the night while I sleep, about twice a month.
Twice a month it's like opening an Easter Basket in the morning!
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cupcake
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This article speaks to possible near-term improvements in EV batteries and motors.
A Radical New Magnet Without Rare-Earth Metals Is About to Change Motors Forever
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/a-radical-new-magn...
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
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Yesterday, I drove 2.5 hours to a work destination. When I started out, my U.I. (User Interface screen) said I would arrive with 38% charge of
electrons left in the "tank." MY BEV LIED TO ME!!! Time to sell my BEV! I actually arrived with 39% left in the "tank."  And these are 6 y.o. old traction batteries!
[Edited on 6-20-2024 by oxxo]
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JDCanuck
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I am starting to see a significant number of Teslas here in La Paz. I have not yet had the opportunity to ask them where they are charging, but based
on Maranatha Campgrounds report, there are a few charging there and paying the relatively high rate of 500 pesos for a 2/3 full charge, or 250 pesos
per 100 miles. Maranatha tells me they use this service to raise funds for their community support activities.
I am assuming the others are charging mainly at home chargers on 240v 50A chargers at the going CFE rates as i seldom see them charging at the free
sites or indeed the other paid sites I often drive by.
The previous (2020 Before they boosted rates) unsubsidized power rates in Baja wee quoted as being .19/kwh (USD) which was 1.5 times what we pay for
our highest tier using 97% renewable power in Canada. It seems all this diesel generated power in Baja is not really that cheap at present. It may be
a long time before EVs get attractive as an alternative in Baja unless power supplies can be reduced in price.
[Edited on 6-20-2024 by JDCanuck]
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