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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Dow up three days running. Citi and GE have positive stuff to say. We're not out of the woods, but....Baja!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65297
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Thanks for popping in Bernie!
BajaGringo, what I was talking about was creating 'wealth' so we ALL could have a home, food, and happiness... not so much 'material wealth'... But
being able to care for one's family and not expect the government (ie. your neighbors) to pay for your mistakes, or lack of motivation... You must
learn to care for yourself and not wait for the handout.
Baitcast... excellent quote!
I don't know about the rest of you, but I never got a job from a poor person! When the rich get richer, the poor get richer... The American economy is
not a finite pie that only has a few slices... it is open ended with no limit... Just get the government out of our way and let us build the economy
back up.
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805gregg
Super Nomad
Posts: 1344
Registered: 5-21-2006
Location: Ojai, Ca
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| Quote: | | Just get the government out of our way and let us build the economy back up. |
Not likely, some idots elected a Dem. tax and spend, is the way for now. Take the money from those that work and give it to those that don't.
Nationalized health care doesn't work, aske the Canadians, when they want good care they cross over to the US.
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Paladin
Nomad
Posts: 164
Registered: 3-25-2006
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Beware of preaching Christians
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paladin
Beware of preaching Christians |
Couldn't have said it better myself 
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Most interesting
Beware the Christians..............who would they be??? Not even sure I am one but I do respect the fact that they DO have a set of
principals...........and even some of them live by their ideas.
Thought this thread was about fear.....
.Hey! David.....you are right there with Jesse at hitting the nail on the head.
Hi Baja Angel..........the lady's know--right!
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Beware the Christians..............who would they be??? Not even sure I am one but I do respect the fact that they DO have a set of
principals...........and even some of them live by their ideas.
Thought this thread was about fear.....
.Hey! David.....you are right there with Jesse at hitting the nail on the head.
Hi Baja Angel..........the lady's know--right! |
It's about dogma and judgement of others ...
Fundamentalist' of all faiths are abhorant to those around them
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tigerdog
Nomad
Posts: 135
Registered: 12-7-2005
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I don't know about the rest of you, but I never got a job from a poor person! When the rich get richer, the poor get richer... The American economy is
not a finite pie that only has a few slices... it is open ended with no limit... Just get the government out of our way and let us build the economy
back up. |
What barometer do you use to measure how the poor get richer when the rich get richer? That statement seems to fly in the face of the evidence. Over
the last 8 years or so the very rich have become exponentially richer while the ranks of the poor have greatly increased and the middle class has
shrunk at an alarming rate. And that did not happen just in the last couple of years, but has been a steady occurence over that time. I don't see any
evidence that the riches have "trickled down".
Real wages have stagnated, millions are jobless, 50 million without health care, tent cities are popping up all over the country, the REAL
unemployment rate (not the official one) is in the 15% range, children are going hungry and we have all been thoroughly screwed by corporate greed and
the various financial institutions, who now want our money to rescue them from their profligate, incompetent and unethical ways.
It was getting government "out of the way" that largely set the stage for all this to happen. And now you want us to trust those same "evildoers" who
screwed everything up to fix it all and promise to never ever do it again (until the next time)? I don't think so.
As for poor people, they may not provide jobs but my personal experience mirrors John Steinbeck's quote in Grapes of Wrath: "If you're in trouble or
hurt or need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones."
\"You know Hobbes, sometimes even my lucky rocket-ship underpants don\'t help.\" - Calvin, from Calvin and Hobbes
Visit me at Rocky Point Tides
http://rptides.blogspot.com/ |
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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I know that there are folks who listen all day to talk radio and will not agree with me. Trickle down does not work. Period. Lowering taxes and
regulations on the wealthy and the corporations ultimately resulted in a huge shift of our nation's wealth to the very few at the top. If you are
going to cite all the good economic periods since Reagan basically started all this, don't bother. Much of the so-called wealth of the middle class
was ephemeral. As jobs moved overseas to help corporate bottom lines, many who lost their jobs ultimately found others jobs that paid less and had
less or no benefits. Employers that provided pension plans shifted to 401k plans which involved shifting much of the monetary responsibility to the
employee. In 1972, I had a health plan with my employer that was not PPO or HMO. Virtually no restrictions on my choice of providers, and it was
virtually completely paid by the employer. Getting back to my original point, the middle class really didn't notice what was happening for a few
reasons. First, it occurred gradually. Second, means to maintain a lifestyle became available in the form of credit cards. And then, there was this
real estate thing. Refinancing and taking equity lines on what was ultimately unsupportable real estate values.
It tooks decades, and it certainly wasn't in a straight line, but the fact is trickle down has really meant shift up in the comparative wealth among
our classes.
Perhaps it is time to try something else before we become a third world nation. Oh. That's right. This forum makes it appear that we all already
embrace a third world nation.
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20004
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by baitcast
From off topic Food for thought.
Rob
What a profound short little paragraph that says it all!!!
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person
must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half
of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea
that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot
multiply wealth by dividing it."
~~~~~ Dr. Adrian Rogers,1931 |
it's pablum for simpletons.
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20004
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I don't know about the rest of you, but I never got a job from a poor person! When the rich get richer, the poor get richer...
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Let them eat cake!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Fear is a funny thing.
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baitcast
Super Nomad
Posts: 1785
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: kingman AZ.
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Mood: good
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Yep it do make some sence.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Well said wodd and dog.
Some would posit and have on this site that there is plenty of work for anyone who wants it and if someone is not working then they are somehow
morally deficient. They posit that if one is not well to do it is one’s own fault. I personally find this view insulting, arrogant and out of touch
with the realities of the ordinary person who has experienced what tigerdog so clearly describes.
It seems to some that because they are comfortable they believe that they possess some sort of moral superiority and those who are not doing well are
somehow inferior to them. Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake" when told that the masses were without bread. That immediately preceded the French
Revolution. That is the sort of hubris that has gripped the national consciousness of the USofA since the time of Reagan. We have idolized the rich
and ascribed to them superiority and have looked to them as role models. We don't view a Teacher or Peace Corps worker in the same way that we view
Donald Trump.
We are all one health catastrophe away from economic disaster and many of the home foreclosures that are happening are because people cannot pay their
medical bills. It would seem to me that the Conservatives who post here actually blame the victim and claim moral superiority because they have means
themselves.
I recently had a Conservative friend, who was laid off and is having a terrible time finding work, lost his medical coverage and needed medical care.
So he went to the ER and waited four hours. He now understands a little of what the reality is for some 50 million people without coverage due to no
fault of their own. He now has a large medical bill and no way to pay it. This will affect his credit rating and he now is in the downward spiral that
he refused to believe happens to good people every day in the USofA.
There are solutions, but trickle down "voodoo" economics is not one of them.
Some people need simple answers and solutions to problems. They are uncomfortable with the notion that life can be chaotic and unpredictable. True
Believers, no matter what the stripe, have a sense of internal security that is built upon their belief system and they live with a great fear that
anything that does not reinforce their belief system is DANGEROUS, hence they are actually fear based though they act very self assured.
Notice how the terrorist spends his days reciting the Koran, notice how rigid fundamentalists of any stripe always say the same things, over and over,
and how they reference themselves as virtuous and posit others as bad, inferior, immoral, Socialist or Communist. Fundamentalists of any stripe are
dangerous and to be feared as it is their way and their way only. These folks can be found on both the left and right on the political spectrum, both
have very clear answers as to how you SHOULD live.
In times of social unrest and upheaval nations often turn to dictators who offer certainty as a way to address social anxiety (fear without a
reference). These people offer simple solutions and often resort to force of violence to subdue the "other". Notice Chavez who has now been named
Ruler for Life. Notice how Rush Limbaugh is idolized and lionized. It is hard for the voice of reason to be heard in the context of fear.
Mexico is experiencing social and political unrest and could well turn to a True Believer, Obrador for example, to try to address the anxiety that the
Fox/Calderon Presidencies have generated by challenging the status quo and the economic downturn that is having its very real impact on the average
person's pocket book.
Just as people seek "pie in the sky when you die" when faced with personal tragedy, times of public distress can lead to a desire for certitude on the
part of leaders and this can be dangerous indeed.
Iflyfish
edited for atrocious spelling, poor paragraph construction and run ons.
Iflyfish
edited for atrocious spelling, poor paragraph construction and run ons.
[Edited on 3-13-2009 by Iflyfish]
[Edited on 3-13-2009 by Iflyfish]
[Edited on 3-14-2009 by Iflyfish]
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Tirgerdog" Please let me know where these Tent Cities are "Poping up all over the Country", I have some extra Money that I would like to share with
them. Just Locations and any Photos of the Area and the person responsible for feeding the Children in that Area.
Thanks
Skeet/Loreto
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Texas just announce that 'We do not need the Govt. handout for unemployment."
The true needy are being taken care of in this country; Just ask a few--Not the Druggies nor the people who pull the Workmans Comp. Injury deal with
the Employer doing the Paying.
Can any one doing Posts on this Thread tell me who has been buying all the cars being produced in the last 20 years//
Was it the Rich Folks.
And when Clinton got Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack to lower the standards to be met for getting a Loan who benefited.??
Is it not funny that the people making fun of Religious Folks have never been nor Had any Faith or Religion?? Seems as they just do not know what they
are talking about.
I love America!! I believe it is the Greatest Country in the World!
I do not "Hate" the poor weak minded who are crying and whining that the Rich are keeing the Poor that way, just feel sorry that their Minds are so
Weak.
I Pray for them. Hoping that God will help them get out and Work Harder, love their Neighbor, take care of their Children. God Bless them All!
I am thanful that I am not a Commie.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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http://www.sacloaves.org/tent-cities-in-america/?gclid=CJPlo...
Google: US Tent Cities. You will find lots of info there including pictures, stories, ways to help. Good for you amigo.
Iflyfish
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tigerdog
Nomad
Posts: 135
Registered: 12-7-2005
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Iflyfish beat me to it. So instead I'll point you-- and anyone else who is interested-- to Feeding America, an organization devoted
to addressing hunger in America. Food banks all across the country are having a hard time meeting the needs of people in their locations, a
combination of cutbacks in donations and an increase in the needy. You can help by finding a food bank in your area and donating food (please, not
stuff that has expired already, lol)
http://feedingamerica.org/
God bless you for helping, amigo.
Edited to add this link, which is about the Sacramento tent city and has lots of photos. Those people aren't there because they didn't work hard or
are weak minded...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1159677/Pi...
Second edit: Oops. Wrong URL
See also this story, to show that it is not just Sacramento. This 2008 article focuses on Reno but addresses the issue across the country. Note that
besides the tent cities, there is a large increase of families living in cars and vans. That is very serious indeed!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26776283/
[Edited on 3-14-2009 by tigerdog]
[Edited on 3-14-2009 by tigerdog]
[Edited on 3-14-2009 by tigerdog]
\"You know Hobbes, sometimes even my lucky rocket-ship underpants don\'t help.\" - Calvin, from Calvin and Hobbes
Visit me at Rocky Point Tides
http://rptides.blogspot.com/ |
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20004
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Tirgerdog" Please let me know where these Tent Cities are "Poping up all over the Country", I have some extra Money that I would like to share with
them. Just Locations and any Photos of the Area and the person responsible for feeding the Children in that Area.
Thanks
Skeet/Loreto |
Skeet, I saw one of the tent cities in Sacramento. I'm sure there are more, and probably a few in Texas.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Just for Information:
The 22 North American Shrine Hospitals has a budget of 11 Billion Dollars. $365 Million is spent every year just on Cripple Children.
In addition The Scottish Rite of Masonry has 167 Lanuage Disorder Centers across the Country.
The York Rite of Masonry has several Eye Clinics for the Children.
All Services are free to the Children.
I would like for anyone interested to go to ----evelineriversproject.org and see how we do it in the Texas panhandle. We do not allow Food services
to the Poor run out of Food!!
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