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Bajahowodd
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OK. Maybe I've been out on the farm too long. Can anyone actually point me to a union contract that specifies smoke breaks? There are both state and
federal laws that spell out certain workplace conditions that include breaks and lunch. My own experience in management is that smokers do tend to
spend more time away from their work stations. However, non-smokers usually, while at their work stations were making personal phone calls or doing
non-work related surfing on the internet.
That said, it was the labor unions that built the middle class in this country, making it the envy of the world. Since Reagan fired the air traffic
controllers, it has been downhill for unions. There are far less union members in this country than there were 50 years ago. I certainly understand
the challenges facing small business owners. But the fact that large employers have been able to ship jobs overseas, and reduce benefits to domestic
workers has had it negative impact on our middle class.
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toneart
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My attitude towards drugs in the workplace is complicated. First of all, I am a rebel. I subscribe to the double standard; it's OK for me but it is
not OK for you. I know myself (almost everyone says that). But I really know myself and my personal capabilities and standards. I live by my own code.
I am a free spirit and tend to resent anyone laying restrictions of any kind on me. I tend not to like people who try. Having said that, I have never
been arrested, caused an accident or hurt anyone. But, I also have a personal code of conduct that knows the line, and it serves me well.
Now, in the workplace, it really depends on what type of business it is. What degree of responsibility for safety do you carry as an employer or as an
employee? I would say that if you are operating any kind of machinery, you owe it to yourself to not endanger your own life and the lives of others.
If your job requires clear thinking, working against a deadline or if your company's success depends on even gaining a slim edge over the competition,
you have the responsibility to not use drugs on the job.
Someone said that you may the keeper of intellectual property. You must have the character in order to enjoy the privilege of being in that position.
And that speaks to the larger issue of character.
Your character must be rock solid. You must be trustworthy. If you make exceptions for yourself on the job, you are living a lie and cannot be
trusted. You are a security risk!
As Oldlady said, company rules follow government regulations and also protect the company against litigation. With such a company, you have to sign an
agreement that you will abide by the rules or be subject to termination of your job. If you violate that trust, it is your own fault. Bye Bye!
As for government regulations, I am one who welcomes them. They are usually put in place incrementally, as a result of a sorry history of Corporate
Culture taking unfair advantage of employees. Companies would regularly put their employees in harm's way or allow legal violations of one's civil
rights. This is why Unions became necessary. Unfortunately, their executive management became as corrupt as the corporations they were collectively
bargained into, to reform. Unions did serve to establish a great middle economic class after WWll.
Sadly that is being dismantled as we speak, by design. The advent of Free Trade/One World Economy had set up the conditions of economic collapse we
are now experiencing. Corporate greed, obscene bonuses, insurance and drug companies gouging and denying, bank bailouts, unnecessary wars, raiding the
sacred lockbox of Social Security and Medicare, tax cuts, out of control government spending of taxpayer's money on WRONG priorities have all
contributed to the demise of the empire..and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Bottom line: Human nature is corruptible. Safeguards need to be in place to protect (most of) us from ourselves. 
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wessongroup
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what middle class....
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Bajahowodd
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It is interesting that in the past couple of decades, Mexico's middle class has burgeoned. Much of that growth came at the expense of US manufacturing
jobs. There is auto and truck assembly, TV assembly, just to name a couple. Time was that both of those products were exclusive to the US, as far as
us brands were concerned. Here's the funny thing. There are now Asian based TV manufacturers that are assembling their sets in the US once again. The
big difference is that their cost structure is so much lower than when, say Zenith or Motorola was making them here. Lower wages and less, if any
benefits. Mexico has already had to deal with some of their jobs being outsourced, as Mexican unions pressed for higher wages and benefits, companies
looked to Asia and other business friendly countries.
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
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Registered: 11-20-2007
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HOPING THAT BAJA AND THE REST OF MEXICO HAVE A:
NOCHE DE PAZ
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Bajahowodd
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Yo estoy de acuerdo. Or ditto.
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wessongroup
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
In many states the use of marijuana is legal with a doctor's recommendation. If company policy can trump state law would it be okay for a company to
have a policy banning the use of tobacco in an employees free time or the use of Prozac or Vicodan even with a doctors prescription? There are plenty
of prescription medications that affect an employees performance worse than marijuana. |
Well according to Tonehart, yes it would be good for us all, we need a "mother" to keep us safe from ourselves ... hey Tonehart, what if the
government told you what you could PLAY ??? I'm sure they would know best.. and of course they would certainly know better than you what kind of music
you should play, what kind of ax you use, maybe even the oil you use on your valves, height of your music stand, whether you can use a stand, and
maybe you can't play if you wear glasses.... after all you might become, ahhhh gee take your pick or better yet lets form a Government Committee to
research how trumpet playing has done anyone ANY harm.. then make a call for all future trumpet players.. I'm just guessing that you play the
trumpet.. it would of course apply to any musical instrument played you play.... "sound good" to you??
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Skeet/Loreto
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Toneart:
You must "Change" you must start to thinking that "YOU" are better at making decesions than a group of "Govt. Employees",
You make the decisions and you will find that there are a lot of people that can still use "Common Sense".
I am right in the middle of an attempt of a Govt. enitity trying to direct 400 citizens into setting up a govt program{a tax payers expense that they
cannot afford} for an Emergency Services District. What a Scam!!
You have to take the chance of "common Sense" instead of leting a Govt. Bunch tell you what to do with your Life..
Wake Uo Buddy! have some Fun!
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Toneart:
You must "Change" you must start to thinking that "YOU" are better at making decesions than a group of "Govt. Employees",
You make the decisions and you will find that there are a lot of people that can still use "Common Sense".
I am right in the middle of an attempt of a Govt. enitity trying to direct 400 citizens into setting up a govt program{a tax payers expense that they
cannot afford} for an Emergency Services District. What a Scam!!
You have to take the chance of "common Sense" instead of leting a Govt. Bunch tell you what to do with your Life..
Wake Uo Buddy! have some Fun! |
Skeet,
Read it again. I do make my own choices. I just don't have a lot of faith that people without strong character, or drug users in the
workplace have those capabilities.
Your "Wake uo Buddy! have some Fun!" sentence? I am about as awake and alive and aware as any human being you will meet. Life is great! I have lots of
fun. 
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
In many states the use of marijuana is legal with a doctor's recommendation. If company policy can trump state law would it be okay for a company to
have a policy banning the use of tobacco in an employees free time or the use of Prozac or Vicodan even with a doctors prescription? There are plenty
of prescription medications that affect an employees performance worse than marijuana. |
Well according to Tonehart, yes it would be good for us all, we need a "mother" to keep us safe from ourselves ... hey Tonehart, what if the
government told you what you could PLAY ??? I'm sure they would know best.. and of course they would certainly know better than you what kind of music
you should play, what kind of ax you use, maybe even the oil you use on your valves, height of your music stand, whether you can use a stand, and
maybe you can't play if you wear glasses.... after all you might become, ahhhh gee take your pick or better yet lets form a Government Committee to
research how trumpet playing has done anyone ANY harm.. then make a call for all future trumpet players.. I'm just guessing that you play the
trumpet.. it would of course apply to any musical instrument played you play.... "sound good" to you?? |
I have read this over and over again, Mr. Oil. I can't make any sense out of it and I can't relate it to the quote above it from Monoloco.
You did somehow string together my memories of the government telling me what to play; ie: school bands and the U.S. Army Band. Other that that random
association piece, the rest of your post is, well....kinda like this>>>>>>>  
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
hey Tonehart, what if the government told you what you could PLAY ??? |
If the government told us musicians never to play:
Feelings, NY NY or Happy Birthday...
I'd be eternally grateful.
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arrowhead
Banned
Posts: 912
Registered: 5-5-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
hey Tonehart, what if the government told you what you could PLAY ??? |
Well, that might be OK if they only let him play, "Far, Far Away".
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
In many states the use of marijuana is legal with a doctor's recommendation. If company policy can trump state law would it be okay for a company to
have a policy banning the use of tobacco in an employees free time or the use of Prozac or Vicodan even with a doctors prescription? There are plenty
of prescription medications that affect an employees performance worse than marijuana. |
Well according to Tonehart, yes it would be good for us all, we need a "mother" to keep us safe from ourselves ... hey Tonehart, what if the
government told you what you could PLAY ??? I'm sure they would know best.. and of course they would certainly know better than you what kind of music
you should play, what kind of ax you use, maybe even the oil you use on your valves, height of your music stand, whether you can use a stand, and
maybe you can't play if you wear glasses.... after all you might become, ahhhh gee take your pick or better yet lets form a Government Committee to
research how trumpet playing has done anyone ANY harm.. then make a call for all future trumpet players.. I'm just guessing that you play the
trumpet.. it would of course apply to any musical instrument played you play.... "sound good" to you?? |
I have read this over and over again, Mr. Oil. I can't make any sense out of it and I can't relate it to the quote above it from Monoloco.
You did somehow string together my memories of the government telling me what to play; ie: school bands and the U.S. Army Band. Other that that random
association piece, the rest of your post is, well....kinda like this>>>>>>>
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I too played in a band where we were told what to play... I quit.. and it does not surprise me one lick that you don't get it.. as you position and
response is not new to me.. your good at telling folks what is good for them.. but, somehow when someone asks you how you would want YOUR life and
YOUR job directly affected by your very recommendations.. aahhhh I don't understand or get it... well your response is kinda like
this>>>>>>> |
Hey, Merry Christmas.. none of this will matter in 1000 years.. you have a good one.. i'm going too hope everyone gets what the have wished for...
Peace .... Out!!!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
hey Tonehart, what if the government told you what you could PLAY ??? |
If the government told us musicians never to play:
Feelings, NY NY or Happy Birthday...
I'd be eternally grateful. |
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Toneart:
You must "Change" you must start to thinking that "YOU" are better at making decesions than a group of "Govt. Employees",
You make the decisions and you will find that there are a lot of people that can still use "Common Sense".
I am right in the middle of an attempt of a Govt. enitity trying to direct 400 citizens into setting up a govt program{a tax payers expense that they
cannot afford} for an Emergency Services District. What a Scam!!
You have to take the chance of "common Sense" instead of leting a Govt. Bunch tell you what to do with your Life..
Wake Uo Buddy! have some Fun! |
ditto's... hey how about a Grant in the form of ($500,000) that was paid out for a study to find out "why" prisoners want to escape from jail.. and
this is no joke...
[Edited on 12-25-2009 by wessongroup]
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
hey Tonehart, what if the government told you what you could PLAY ??? |
If the government told us musicians never to play:
Feelings, NY NY or Happy Birthday...
I'd be eternally grateful. |
What if I could deliver the whole chorus line from Radio City Music hall to kick high to the tune of NY NY? 
Close you eyes and imagine; Du du doodidoo, du du doodidoo, du du dudidooooo..... The one second from the left... she's looking right at you. She's smiling. You are sitting in the front row
and you can feel the wind with each kick. 
Oh, that trumpet player's got a gooooood gig!
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Well, maybe one at a time
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
What if I could deliver the whole chorus line from Radio City Music hall to kick high to the tune of NY NY? |
Did you ever work that room? The stage is incredible. Years ago I got a grand tour. Even got to play the Wurlitzer. Scary 
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
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it's hard to keep a good man down....
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