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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by XPBRes
Mike & Olivia were only leasing the land when they subleased it to a few that improved their leased lots (1991). We have slowly been picked off
and now are long gone. We were given bogus leases and when Mike left Mark & Olivia tried to strong arm us into new leases. Then Munoz came along
with an ultimatum, give up your rights to the improvements, get out or be sued. Now MARK who never had anything to do with the building of this beach
community is showing pictures of HIS new home (what a joke). Just because he is still there doesn't give him the right to claim property that was
legally paid for by wonderful people who put their trust in Mike, and then Mark & Olivia. Sure there is Munoz and his claims but why is he any
different than the lies and theft that came 1st. I know most of the people that post here, and they are good & honest. I too along with all the
others who invested in this dream, nightmare trusted all of these characters. We wanted to believe in these people but lies, greed and desperation won
out. Now the dream is truly a nightmare and who is to blame. Surely not the people who put down their life savings . Then trusted for a chance to
retire in a beautiful beach setting such as Buenaventura. I challenge Mark to tell any of you that they are owners of anything at best they lease land
and that is being challenged. Have him tell you how he built anything down there. He didn't even show up until after Mike left and there have been no
improvements to the beach since he left (2002). I have kept quiet to respect the last of the homeowners but there are none left. OK Mark move into
someone else’s home and claim it but you can't have it both ways! You and Munoz are no different trying to claim what others have built for your own.
Thank you Mike, Mark, Olivia & Munoz your lies, cheating & greed have you right were you belong!!!!!
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes] |
XPBRes
Do you know what ever became of Mike? I heard that he left the Pheonix fire dept under less than desireable circumstances, and then went to Baja got
involved (started?)with this mess. Any idea where he is now?
Larry
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goldhuntress
Senior Nomad
Posts: 663
Registered: 1-28-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by goldhuntress
@XPBRes, I thought I smelled a rat, turns out it's several! I kept wondering where is the beginning of this, when did it start? If I know that I will
know what's what, maybe not legally, but morally. You answered that and I believe you. Thank you for posting and sorry you got screwed.
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xpbr has made only one post ever in nomadlandia. she-he could be a regular posing anew.. or just making a special appearance to stir the pot, grind
his/her axe |
Your right, could be. I'm going with my gut here. I thought there was more to it and his story is like other real estate nightmares we've all heard
about. It doesn't explain what's happening now but it does show that there is a even bigger picture. Plus, we all have a first post and it usually
happens when something interests us enough to sign up and jump in.
Edit to say I agree with you on the drive by. So many other beautiful beach options than to go there deal with all the bad juju!
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by goldhuntress]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by larryC
| Quote: | Originally posted by XPBRes
Mike & Olivia were only leasing the land when they subleased it to a few that improved their leased lots (1991). We have slowly been picked off
and now are long gone. We were given bogus leases and when Mike left Mark & Olivia tried to strong arm us into new leases. Then Munoz came along
with an ultimatum, give up your rights to the improvements, get out or be sued. Now MARK who never had anything to do with the building of this beach
community is showing pictures of HIS new home (what a joke). Just because he is still there doesn't give him the right to claim property that was
legally paid for by wonderful people who put their trust in Mike, and then Mark & Olivia. Sure there is Munoz and his claims but why is he any
different than the lies and theft that came 1st. I know most of the people that post here, and they are good & honest. I too along with all the
others who invested in this dream, nightmare trusted all of these characters. We wanted to believe in these people but lies, greed and desperation won
out. Now the dream is truly a nightmare and who is to blame. Surely not the people who put down their life savings . Then trusted for a chance to
retire in a beautiful beach setting such as Buenaventura. I challenge Mark to tell any of you that they are owners of anything at best they lease land
and that is being challenged. Have him tell you how he built anything down there. He didn't even show up until after Mike left and there have been no
improvements to the beach since he left (2002). I have kept quiet to respect the last of the homeowners but there are none left. OK Mark move into
someone else’s home and claim it but you can't have it both ways! You and Munoz are no different trying to claim what others have built for your own.
Thank you Mike, Mark, Olivia & Munoz your lies, cheating & greed have you right were you belong!!!!!
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes] |
XPBRes
Do you know what ever became of Mike? I heard that he left the Pheonix fire dept under less than desireable circumstances, and then went to Baja got
involved (started?)with this mess. Any idea where he is now?
Larry |
It was mentioned here on Nomad that Mike passed away from cancer... back in 2003: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=2036
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3511
Registered: 8-27-2003
Member Is Offline
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OK, here is what I’ve surmised; help me fill in the holes:
1. The world was dark, void and without form.
2. So god set to work and made this little bay.
3. Fast Forward to post-revolution and some Italian guy owns the bay.
4. Munoz ‘buys’ the beach from said Italian guy; and per Wooosh’s guess has good title, the best.
5. Munoz leases all? or part? of beach to a Mexican (Olivia) and her husband/boyfriend Mike.
6. Somebody, and I don’t know who or when, builds a hotel and a restaurant. And when I say ‘build’, I mean who paid for the material
and labor and who was expecting to get the benefit of these businesses?
7. Somehow/way, Mike and Olivia have at the very least a signed lease for the restaurant and maybe other parts of the beach.
8. Mike and Olivia sub-lease to others who build houses, these houses are on the opposite side of the hotel from the restaurant/bar. I am led to
believe that these sub-leasees THOUGHT they were leasing from the owners of the property but were not.
9. Munoz, who probably is aware of all this, waits until the homes are built and furnished and then contacts the dreamers and tells them to get the
f*ck off his property.
10. Sh*t hits the fan, people come after Mike & Olivia and Mike bails.
11. Mark shows up to continue the fight.
12. Olivia files for and gets a beach concession for the area where the café/bar is.
13. Mark and Olivia take over one of the houses as their own; I mean, why not; they’re just sitting there.
14. Olivia (and I am just guessing here) starts doing the Mexican version of ownership per possession and improvement, squatter’s rights and all that.
She must have been a little bit successful here given the fear shown by Munoz.
15. Munoz goes apesh*t and starts fighting dirty, or even dirtier.
There is only one access road that serves both restaurant and hotel. This tells me that both were built by the same party with the concept that both
buildings were on a single piece of property or lot and therefore no subdivision has taken place unless the person who ended up with the restaurant
lot is very stupid as they now would have no guaranteed access. Or they are being stupid like a fox.
Will somebody who actually knows something fill in the blanks to the above timeline? Thanks
These kinds of stories are entertaining, but drive me nucking futs. Do we all just totally toss our common sense when we cross the border?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18377
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
OK, here is what I’ve surmised; help me fill in the holes:
1. The world was dark, void and without form.
2. So god set to work and made this little bay.
3. Fast Forward to post-revolution and some Italian guy owns the bay.
4. Munoz ‘buys’ the beach from said Italian guy; and per Wooosh’s guess has good title, the best.
5. Munoz leases all? or part? of beach to a Mexican (Olivia) and her husband/boyfriend Mike.
6. Somebody, and I don’t know who or when, builds a hotel and a restaurant. And when I say ‘build’, I mean who paid for the material
and labor and who was expecting to get the benefit of these businesses?
7. Somehow/way, Mike and Olivia have at the very least a signed lease for the restaurant and maybe other parts of the beach.
8. Mike and Olivia sub-lease to others who build houses, these houses are on the opposite side of the hotel from the restaurant/bar. I am led to
believe that these sub-leasees THOUGHT they were leasing from the owners of the property but were not.
9. Munoz, who probably is aware of all this, waits until the homes are built and furnished and then contacts the dreamers and tells them to get the
f*ck off his property.
10. Sh*t hits the fan, people come after Mike & Olivia and Mike bails.
11. Mark shows up to continue the fight.
12. Olivia files for and gets a beach concession for the area where the café/bar is.
13. Mark and Olivia take over one of the houses as their own; I mean, why not; they’re just sitting there.
14. Olivia (and I am just guessing here) starts doing the Mexican version of ownership per possession and improvement, squatter’s rights and all that.
She must have been a little bit successful here given the fear shown by Munoz.
15. Munoz goes apesh*t and starts fighting dirty, or even dirtier.
There is only one access road that serves both restaurant and hotel. This tells me that both were built by the same party with the concept that both
buildings were on a single piece of property or lot and therefore no subdivision has taken place unless the person who ended up with the restaurant
lot is very stupid as they now would have no guaranteed access. Or they are being stupid like a fox.
Will somebody who actually knows something fill in the blanks to the above timeline? Thanks
These kinds of stories are entertaining, but drive me nucking futs. Do we all just totally toss our common sense when we cross the border?
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you forgot the turtle soup and narco trafficing of olivia... need t0 follow all plot threads.. makes a more interesting tale... just saying 
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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And following Santiago's assessment.
Why was everything quiet and uneventful for such a long time and then suddenly Munoz thinks he needs to send down gun toting goons to straighten
things out? I have seen the condition of the hotel and these guys do not strike me as being what is needed to "clean up the hotel".
The articles in the paper basically mean nothing at this point since it is just one man's blowing off steam. When charges are filed why not go for
Calderon too, just because you name the director of State Police and the Governor, does not really signify anything except that your attorney has a
big pencil and is looking to get lots of attention.
I doubt that we will ever get a clear story of who owned what and who started what lease. It is a shame that three beautiful houses are sitting
there with two vacant and crumbling and one occupied by Mark.
Hopefully this thing will go to court and everyone gets their say in the matter and they settle this thing once and for all.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
OK, here is what I’ve surmised; help me fill in the holes:
1. The world was dark, void and without form.
2. So god set to work and made this little bay.
3. Fast Forward to post-revolution and some Italian guy owns the bay.
4. Munoz ‘buys’ the beach from said Italian guy; and per Wooosh’s guess has good title, the best.
5. Munoz leases all? or part? of beach to a Mexican (Olivia) and her husband/boyfriend Mike.
6. Somebody, and I don’t know who or when, builds a hotel and a restaurant. And when I say ‘build’, I mean who paid for the material
and labor and who was expecting to get the benefit of these businesses?
7. Somehow/way, Mike and Olivia have at the very least a signed lease for the restaurant and maybe other parts of the beach.
8. Mike and Olivia sub-lease to others who build houses, these houses are on the opposite side of the hotel from the restaurant/bar. I am led to
believe that these sub-leasees THOUGHT they were leasing from the owners of the property but were not.
9. Munoz, who probably is aware of all this, waits until the homes are built and furnished and then contacts the dreamers and tells them to get the
f*ck off his property.
10. Sh*t hits the fan, people come after Mike & Olivia and Mike bails.
11. Mark shows up to continue the fight.
12. Olivia files for and gets a beach concession for the area where the café/bar is.
13. Mark and Olivia take over one of the houses as their own; I mean, why not; they’re just sitting there.
14. Olivia (and I am just guessing here) starts doing the Mexican version of ownership per possession and improvement, squatter’s rights and all that.
She must have been a little bit successful here given the fear shown by Munoz.
15. Munoz goes apesh*t and starts fighting dirty, or even dirtier.
There is only one access road that serves both restaurant and hotel. This tells me that both were built by the same party with the concept that both
buildings were on a single piece of property or lot and therefore no subdivision has taken place unless the person who ended up with the restaurant
lot is very stupid as they now would have no guaranteed access. Or they are being stupid like a fox.
Will somebody who actually knows something fill in the blanks to the above timeline? Thanks
These kinds of stories are entertaining, but drive me nucking futs. Do we all just totally toss our common sense when we cross the border?
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Lots of holes. But I don't have the time or inclination to go through them all. Its a LONG and complicated mess. But here is one. A Mexican moved
into the house first (why I don't know)? Mark and Olivia had him forcibly removed in December 2011 so they could take it over.
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3511
Registered: 8-27-2003
Member Is Offline
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OK then; the tax collector every year sends out tax bills - they must go to the current owner of record - no? Who gets the bill and who pays it?
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
OK then; the tax collector every year sends out tax bills - they must go to the current owner of record - no? Who gets the bill and who pays it?
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In my area in Baja Sur, anyone can go in and pay the bill as long as they know the parcel (there is no bill sent out). Maybe that is only here.
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
Posts: 4999
Registered: 8-1-2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: INTP-A
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
xpbr has made only one post ever in nomadlandia. she-he could be a regular posing anew.. or just making a special appearance to stir the pot, grind
his/her axe |
FWIW... XPBRes appears (in multiple ways on my side of things) to not be "a regular posing anew".
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by BajaNomad]
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
https://www.regionalinternet.com
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting - since 1999 |
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watizname
Senior Nomad
Posts: 773
Registered: 8-7-2009
Member Is Offline
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All right, all right, you got me. Rod Serling is alive and living "somewhere in Bahia Conception"and this is the draft of his new "reality" program.
It's like stay tuned, to see what happens next. New characters popping up almost daily. Geeeesssse What a mess. Who to believe.
I yam what I yam and that\'s all what I yam.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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here is the story in a BCS online newspaper
http://colectivopericu.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/disputa-de-p...
interesting comments below the whole story.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Google Translation
Wow, ramuma really messed up.
Santa Rosalia, BCS-The Justice Department reports that persons were arrested forcibly entered and shooting a firearm on Sunday to an area that has a
legal dispute in Conception Bay, where a hotel and restaurant Buenaventura.
As we reported to chance, people were allegedly hired by a lawyer for the city of Tijuana who identify with the name of Rafael Muñoz Martinez to
dislodge the Americans who currently occupy the site.
The issue came into the hands of the consular representative of the United States in Mulege Jim Christopher, who in defense of the injured Mark J.
Burbey complained to the authorities of his abuse, in making firearm shots against American tourists that were in place the previous Sunday night.
The Office of Justice advises that the site has been secured and were detained persons named Alan Perez Mario Rivera 36-year-old native of Mexico City
and established in Ecatepec (Mexico State), John Banuelos Duran 40 years old from Ciudad Constitucion, Roberto Miranda Gomez 37 years of age Aréchga
Oswaldo Perez, 44, (Robert and Oswaldo originating in La Paz, BCS) and Mary Elizabeth Espinoza Montano 51 years originally from the city of Tijuana.
OFFICIAL PART OF DETENTION
FACTS: On February 9, 2012, at 14:15 hours, to attend the Command Element in Santa Rosalia BCS, to support an application signed by the C. Deputy
Public Investigator Common Law, to carry out the assurance of a property and / or property called "Hotel Buena Ventura" Conception Bay, located at
kilometer 93.5 of the highway Mulege, Loreto BCS, arriving at the site were received by five males and one female, who attacked them verbally with big
words and aggressively, so the agents tried to talk peacefully, letting them know the reason why were in the place above being attacked again with big
words while they rushed to the Elements of the State Ministerial Police, proceeding to submit them and stop them with security measures and police
techniques, not without strong resistance to oppose, being moved to the offices of the Attorney being available to that Authority for the relevant
paperwork.
The crimes they are charged to resist: outrage and violence against public officials and institutions.
ATTORNEY RESPONSE RAFAEL MARTINEZ MUÑOZ
In today's edition of the newspaper THE BCS publishes the disagreement of the lawyer Rafael Muñoz Martinez for the arrest of their workers. He
explains that the weapon used with the permission of the Ministry of Defence. Here is a fragment of the reporter's note Sarabia Porfirio Pacheco.
Aloy Aguiar Yee, Deputy Public Investigator Common Law based in Santa Rosalia, Baja California Sur and Felix Murillo, commander of the State
Ministerial Police of that city and responsible elements, with extreme violence and without a search warrant or arrest warrants, went into the
premises and the Hotel Buena Ventura, the afternoon of February 9, 2012 arrested six workers at the site, keeping them incommunicado.
At a press conference held yesterday afternoon in Beijing, Eduardo Barraza Garcia, a lawyer and legal representative of the owner of the land and
Rafael Muñoz Martinez Hotel, denounced the violations by the authorities of the Attorney General of the State.
He added that criminal charges be filed against the person or persons responsible, since Rafael Muñoz Martinez is the rightful owner of the property
and the Hotel Buena Ventura, located at kilometer 93.5 of the highway Loreto, Mulege, Baja California Sur, according to title issued by the secrete of
Agrarian Reform.
"Workers have committed no crime because they were working on land owned by the employer and whether the worker Alan Perez Mario Rivera, possessed a
.380 caliber firearm for guarding the house and the gun has the permission of the Ministry of National Defense. "
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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"Wow, ramuma really messed up."
I didn't see anything new there that wasn't in the previous media releases.
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Thanks goat for putting it ALL together .... 
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
"Wow, ramuma really messed up."
I didn't see anything new there that wasn't in the previous media releases.
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by Woooosh] |
If there's nothing there that you didn't already know than don't read it. I believe that's what you advocated we do to the Mengano news posts.
I'm sorry if that sounds rude.
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
Member Is Offline
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....this is quite a story....makes me want to go buy a timeshare in CABO.....
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
"Wow, ramuma really messed up."
I didn't see anything new there that wasn't in the previous media releases.
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by Woooosh] |
If there's nothing there that you didn't already know than don't read it. I believe that's what you advocated we do to the Mengano news posts.
I'm sorry if that sounds rude. |
It doesn't sound rude it IS rude. All he's saying is that, since you titled it "Ramuna Really Messed Up", there would be some evidence that hadn't
been known already. Could you be a little more specific, or are you just one of those that believe Mark & Olivia are GOOD and Ramuna is EVIL?
Sorry if that sounds rude, dude.
And, since you brought up Mengano - does this provide any more perspective on the safety of Baja? Of course, bad things happen everywhere. In Mexico
you will not be protected from the "authorities" they very well might be the bad guys. Does that change things at all?
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by Roberto]
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XPBRes
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 2-11-2012
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
Mood: SOULFUL
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Yes 1st time posters look suspicious. My only agenda was to keep the truth in the mix. I know truth can be spun but there are something’s that can’t
be spun.
I appreciate all of the people in the bay that have supported Mike, Mark & Olivia, we did it before all of you. We paid rent and brought down
supplies shared in the building thru the 1st 10 years. Then our trusted couple split, Mike & Olivia, Mike took all he could from beach like a
pirate. He went in to town and opened a bar, La Casona. Left the renters and the Italians to pick up the pieces. We supported Olivia, while Mike made
his plans to cross the gulf to Guaymas. Yes he took a new wife and started all over and has done exactly the same thing to americans over there. I too
heard of his sickness but it has been reported that he is running the same beach, house build out, with airstrip.
So renters and Italians surrounded Olivia and took her in. She claimed she knew nothing of Mikes business with us, so we explained what we were paying
for rent & utilities and paid her. Now the fun begins, our signed and stamped 30 year lease is now said to be void. The ejido wants to be paid for
all improvements to their property, did Mike know something??? Olivia comes to us crying that she needs 10,000 usd to solve her issues with ejido. Of
course this is all Mike's fault he never told her anything. Along with this immediate crisis we need to draft new leases. This is the part in the
story where Mark inserts himself, promoting that renters have great thing going and they should pay more. Ok so we as renters surround the wagons and
put up a front and say HELL NO!! Now comes the stand off that last about a year, we give in and give a fair cost of inflation bump on rent and
utilities. We all continue to pay in good faith. That year most all the renters were there on the beach spring to early summer. Roberto & Franaca
show up for there normal summer stay. They usually do a lot of cleaning a give Olivia a break so that she can go north to visit family. I find out
that while Olivia is gone Munoz shows up at the diner, eats and ask for a room. As he is chatting with Franca he ask where the owner of the hotel is.
She tells him that her and Roberto our the owners. He then tells about the mexican women that he meet on his last visit that claimed to own all the
property and improvements.
Have to stop here and say we have signed docs by the ejido and Mike & Olivia that state we own our improvements to the leased land and can sell
them.
Ok she then tries to sell the hotel and the renters improvements to him. At the same time that this is going on Olivia & Mark are mailing us new
american stock lease agreements, which we received in the mail. Nobody in their right mind would have signed off on this lease.
Now I get a panicked phone call from Franca about this new person claiming that he is the real property owner and we need to talk with him. Roberto
& Franca have taken Corona & Munoz claims to their lawyer and account. They tell us that everything checks out. So the renters set up a
meeting in San Diego to talk all this out. In the process we are overwhelmed with Munoz by email, I think all of you here know what I'm saying (long
winded lawyer speak). We are informed at the meeting that Roberto & Franca have sold the Hotel to these guys.
I don't think sold ever happened but I know they came to an agreement. If I can I will post the 10 year old emails, it might be hard to find but I
will try.
Some of the renters never came back to the beach, some started paying rent to Munoz, but for the most part it was over at that point. We continued to
fight the good fight but we eventually caved to money, harassment, law suits. I decided that we could rent a place for a lot less trouble, THIS BROKE
MY WIFES HEART. We brought down the materials for that house one suburban at a time, blood sweat and tears invested in building that house. No matter
what happens they can't take that away from us!! The people we met, the joy and memories we will hold on too!
We've had over 20 years invested in Playa Buenaventura and for the most part we're so happy we did. Remember there were people, up until this last
year, trying to live in peace at the beach. This and Mark & Olivia’s claims to other people’s property is what brought me into the discussion now.
I have a Passion for this property and the Baja, I DO NOT wish ill will on these characters. What I wish for is more honest information and less
posturing and opinion.
Thanks for listening
The pic is of Semana Santa 94 before hotel
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes]
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by XPBRes]
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LisaR.
Nomad
Posts: 121
Registered: 6-3-2009
Location: Chapala, Jalisco
Member Is Offline
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Thank you XPBRes. Some of us have been following this story for several years, have been to the property, and met some of the people involved. And
we still don't really know the truth of what is going on. I really appreciate hearing from someone like you who knows the history, but is not
involved in the current mess. Please keep sharing anything you can!
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