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Sharksbaja
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Amen, and thanks in advance Shari.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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ELINVESTIG8R
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Has this thread lost steam.
All I can say is that I nor anyone else in here knows the truth of what is really going on except for the two parties affected. I can only hope that
whichever party is on the right side of the law prevails in their quest and that the guilty party who tortured and slaughtered those turtles are
brought to justice.
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I have been doing alot of thinking about this thread and "frame ups" as well....many times in San roque, people have asked me to warm things up on my
stove if it's windy as our place is one of the only casitas with a stove. I wouldn't think to check under the foil...then what if someone who is out
to destroy us (jelously is rampant in mexico) did it on purpose and called the authorities????
Well, you could all come and visit me in Cereso in Sta.rosalia where maybe you would buy some of my abalone trinkets so I could buy some Maruchan at
the store there.
The creeps who tortured and killed the martyred turtle would be sporting a sh*t eating grin and looking for another poor sucker to put away.
sometimes life just aint fair....but this serves as a big lesson to always check what's in the pot and under your computer...just in case.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
....but this serves as a big lesson to always check what's in the pot and under your computer...just in case. |
I've been asked by "friends" on more than one occasion to take small packages to the states to be mailed. The parcels are sealed and when I ask the
contents, invariably the answer is phamaceuticals among other things. Not the dangerous type but, illegal just the same.
My friends may be ignorant to the law but, I'm the one who would eat it if caught.
"Just say NO."
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Cypress
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Olivia and Marc are the victims of a devious scheme to deprive them of their freedom, their livelihood and their property. They're good people.
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ramuma53
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This is Rafael Muñoz Martinez, since a lot of what is said here is always put in doubt, I want to share some verifiable information from reputable
sources, sorry it is in Spanish, but I don’t want somebody to say I miss translated:
--------------------------------------
De: Everardo Mariano Melendez <emariano@conanp.gob.mx>
Fecha: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:19:42 -0500
Para: Aarón Esliman <aaron@grupotortuguero.org>, Everardo Mariano Melendez <ever1234@hotmail.com>, Ernesto Israel Popoca Arellano
<epopoca@conanp.gob.mx>
Asunto: RE: Restaurante sorprendido vendiendo Caguama en Bahia Concepcion, Mulege B.C.S.
Hola Aarón,
Efectivamente fueron detenidas dos personas del sexo femenino, con pruebas evidentes de dos tortugas que preparaban para guiso de caguama, fueron
remitidas ante el ministerio público federal por delitos ambientales, la PGR atrajo el caso y hasta lo último que supe fueron procesadas. Se les
encontró en el acto y con las evidencias periciales.
En Loreto nos pidieron ayuda para buscar depositarios del producto y le fue turnado el caso a PROFEPA. Me parece que este tipo de revisiones a
restaurantes debiese ser con mayor frecuencia y poner una alerta que tanto es culpable quien la captura como quien la consume.
Estamos en contacto!
Saludos.
Ever
Everardo Mariano Meléndez
Encargado del Despacho
Parque Nacional Bahía de Loreto
Tel: (613) 11350477
Paseo Pedro de Ugarte S/N
Col. Misioneros.
Loreto, B.C.S.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Aarón Esliman [mailto:aaron@grupotortuguero.org]
Enviado el: mié 15/04/2009 17:40
Para: Everardo Mariano Melendez; Everardo Mariano Melendez; Ernesto Israel Popoca Arellano
Asunto: FW: Restaurante sorprendido vendiendo Caguama en Bahia Concepcion, Mulege B.C.S.
Hola Ever, me acaba de llegar esto, sabes algo de este asunto, creo que
sería bueno investigar por allá que apso con esto, se ve bastante feo y me
encantaría poder contestar algo a este cuate. Se los encargo mucho.
Saludos
Aarón
----------------------------
So I am not making it up, and Olivia was caught in fraganti cooking the Sea Turtle stew pot in her restaurant for sale to a lot of people, detained,
put in jail and she is free on bail, pending the administrative and criminal sanctions. Also, it makes clear that Mexican reputable Nature
Organizations are promoting the checking and pressing for the convictions, not me.
Some of you are right, Olivia or Oliguacamole just lost the little credibility she had here, because she invented something without knowing the Middle
Eastern costumes; the true is that I almost always use a glove, because of an industrial accident that happened in one of my business; I am a Civil
engineer, but also studied Law and I am an attorney at law, but as I say, I studied law to protect myself from my own attorneys, so it happened to me
when saving an employee of mine; I have my hand, so it is also false that I don’t have it or chopped off; it was burned and I can’t control the
temperature, so it does not get cold I almost always use the glove but I have the use of it, it is even evident on the photo Olivia shared with you
and the Sudcaliforniano and it is becoming clear who try to deceive you.
On the fact that Eddie said that I own my 1000 Has. Lot since 1971 when I was 18 years old, it is only partially true, because I claimed the property
at that time, but my private property title was issued in 1988 and a complement on 1992; I bought it from the Federal Government and the validity of
it was checked by the Federal Police and a Federal Judge thanks to Olivia and Mark, who denounced me formally of having a falsified title and at this
moment the Federal Police and the Federal Judge declared my title lawful; Olivia Know of it because that is the cause why the Ejido La Purisima,
dropped their claims against my title and me; also because in my file, they in 1985 ageed to my limits and signed and put their seal in agreement on
an official document, so I have no quarrel with the Ejido and if Olivia is part of the Ejido she should have done the same, but she is trying to
collect from my American tenants, but that is a legal battle that do not affect me and should not be part of this.
On Federal Zone, there you are in my knowledge sphere, It is very important for you who live near the sea to know what is Federal Zone and what is
not: Federal zone according to the law, is a 20 mts. strip of land measured WHEN THE COAST HAS A BEACH AND THE SOLID GROUND BESIDE THE BEACH IS LESS
THAN 30 DEGREES; ONLY THERE THE FEDERAL ZONE WILL BE MEASURED; this is very important because if there is no beach there is no Federal Zone and you
should not pay for it and this is the law since 1992 by decree; I know that this is not exactly the information the Federal Zone officials want you to
know, because what you pay for it, is in some cases 30% of the city income as is in Rosarito Beach; there, I as an expert witness won the cases for
Castillos del Mar and others, so it is a tested in court true; they want everybody to believe that the Federal Zone is 20 mts. From the sea, but it is
not, since on cleefs there is no Federal Zone, or where the solid ground is more than 30 degrees there is also not a Federal Zone. (If you need
details, just write me and I will give you exact details on the law.)
Another very important fact on Federal Zone is that even if you have the Federal Zone concession, you cannot charge for people using it or crossing
it, you can only use the consession only for the use authrized; also it is unlawful to sub lease any part of a concession; Federal Zone if public
property and no way around it; also you cannot sell alcohol on it or rent houses on it since it would be sub leasing; nobody can charge you for going
to the beach, they can rent you an umbrella, but they cannot prevent you from using it. Then you the Wagon Masters here will say “O but you charge” it
is true, I charge you for overnight parking your buses on my property, because I have a parking permit but if you go on foot and leave your bus on the
highway, nor me, or anybody can prevent you from using the beach, any land owner by law have to allow people to walk to the beach, not by car, walk;
you can see that the hotels always leave a narrow passage to the beach, enough to walk but not for vehicles, but in my case I allow free parking on my
property during the day and only when you stay overnight I charge them and that because they use the bathroom and the water cost me, since I bring it
by truck from Mulege 30 miles north.
Olivia does not have a parking permit because it is forbidden to park or use vehicles on the Federal Zone, you can only park or drive vehicles on the
property, out of federal zone and she has not been noticing that I allow her customers to park on my property without paying, but I can legally close
her access to the restaurant at any time I want. She even has to ask for my permission to cross my property and I have a letter signed by her, asking
for that permission and if she denies it I can show it, it was signed by her in front of a Navy Captain who also signed as witness.
I know that most of what Olivia do is because she don’t know the law and its details and that is why I say that if I disagree with her, she has always
been a lady, not a true telling lady but a lady.
Also so you can understand me, the Property tax on my property is $850,000 USD a year and that is way over the $5000 USD they pay and those prices
were put there by the lawmakers and that is done to force people to develop the valuable properties, but we will never do it with places like Olivia
there that cannot be moved or have a real money obligation according to what they prevent.
On the fact that she got the Federal Concession, I can comment and prove that she paid for that concession with the hotel funds and the payments are
in the Hotel accounting books and if she is not the Hotel owner, she took personal advantage of being at one time the Hotel manager, with a power of
attorney only (hope she does not denies it because I have a public notary document where she accept that, “she does not own any part of the hotel”).
Also just consider, I have a $750,000 USD investment in the hotel, pay taxes on the hotel and the property, while she rent a Federal Zone house
without paying any taxes, because it is unlawful to do it, she sells liquor without paying for a federal permit or tax and she uses my property as her
parking, because in Federal zone, she has no area, because she use it with buildings, that cannot be there, because in Federal zone you cannot put
permanent buildings.
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vandenberg
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Yahooo!!
The plot is thickening (sickening.
Mark & Olivia, your turn.
And Cypress,
Good post. You should write a novella and submit it to Harlequin. You may end up with a winner.
[Edited on 4-22-2009 by vandenberg]
[Edited on 4-22-2009 by vandenberg]
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Cypress
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Thanks vandenberg.
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Bajahowodd
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Geez.
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soulpatch
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You know first hand they were tortured?
| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
Has this thread lost steam.
All I can say is that I nor anyone else in here knows the truth of what is really going on except for the two parties affected. I can only hope that
whichever party is on the right side of the law prevails in their quest and that the guilty party who tortured and slaughtered those turtles are
brought to justice. |
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ELINVESTIG8R
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Soulpatch are you trying to provoke me or what.
I am speaking from a past experience. It was sometime during 1967 or 1968 while I was in San Felipe as a kid working at a restaurant. I happened to
walk in the back of the restaurant and saw firsthand a sea turtle being tortured and butchered. The poor thing was on its back alive and being cut
from its shell then literally hacked into pieces while still squirming and flailing its legs and head. I actually heard the poor thing screaming. The
butcher did not even have the decency to kill it first. It was horrifying. I had nightmares for a long time after that.
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soulpatch
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No. Just provoking thought.
Not everybody tortures what they eat. Some hunters kill ethically and some don't. It seems as if these people have a lot of support out there as
decent people and there may have been a killing like any other food source being killed.
I don't know, just thought I'd ask.
| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
I am speaking from a past experience. It was sometime during 1967 or 1968 while I was in San Felipe as a kid working at a restaurant. I happened to
walk in the back of the restaurant and saw firsthand a sea turtle being tortured and butchered. The poor thing was on its back alive and being cut
from its shell then literally hacked into pieces while still squirming and flailing its legs and head. I actually heard the poor thing screaming. The
butcher did not even have the decency to kill it first. It was horrifying. I had nightmares for a long time after that. |
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ELINVESTIG8R
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No one should infer that I was referring to the people where the turtle soup was found as having tortured and killed the turtles. I only hope those
who did are punished.
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soulpatch
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I agree that violators of the law should be punished accordingly.
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
It would appear the intent behind this barrage of information by ramuma53 has really little to do with turtles but with his long grievance over the
land issue.
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Unfortunately it looks like Mr Munoz will be successful in bringing down Olivia and her husband. I don't think the authorities will care what the
motivation was behind the Munoz tip off. If Olivia can't convince them that the turtles were planted (and none of us know the truth of the matter) she
will probably be prosecuted.
Those are my thoughts. I would be interested to hear other opinions.
As Jesse says, it stinks. There's selective justice here brought on by a person who probably had a turtle steak dinner that same week at a neighbor's
house but chose this opportunity to nail his rival. And then has the temerity to show up here for approval. Unbelievable.
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OLIGUACOMOLE
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The reason for the turtle set up….?
For nearly 7 years we have had to deal with this man Rafael Munoz Martinez (ramuma). A bizarre man, and a more bizarre of character.
Munoz (ramuma) it makes no difference to me what you SAY YOU HAVE or what you SAY YOU ARE. What you need to do is to take this evidence and present
your proofs to the court. You have had six years to do this. Please allow me to refresh your memory. In August of 2002 we took you to court for
unlawful possession of our property. Also for possessing two separate titles for this property which we believe you made up on a computer.
I have lost count on exactly how many times we have had court in La Paz, but it should be near 50 times. I believe Munoz (ramuma) has no intention of
finishing court with us because he knows the outcome will not be in his favor. We would not be in court with Munoz (ramubma) if he had any legitimate
claim for this property. So if I may suggest to you Munoz (bamuma), take your evidence you possess and present this to the court. Time is of the
essence, Do it now.
Our court battle with Munoz (ramuma) is nearing the end or for some has ended. This is the reason I feel we were set up with a turtle. So in order to
punish us or get some kind of negotiation we were planted with a turtle. This is NOT the first instance something like this has happened. We have lots
of bogus charges and accusations from Munoz (rabuma).
I will give Munoz (bamuma) credit for making Buenaventura what it is now. Contaminating our reputation with lies and half truths (for me a half truth
is a lie). Destroying our business and interfering with our daily lives. The BEST THING I can say that you have done since you have shown here at
Buenaventura is that you have EXPOSED YOURSELF AS TO WHAT YOU ARE.
Congradulations on a job well done!
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OLIGUACOMOLE
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El trucko Negra
Yesterday evening persons whom reside at Punta Chivato stopped here at Buenaventura. Told me that Munoz"zz employees were arrested at the military
checkpoint north of loreto for possessing drugs. They were in a black truck. I have noticed the truck not at the hotel the last few days. Anyone have
more info.?
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vandenberg
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| Quote: | Originally posted by OLIGUACOMOLE
Yesterday evening persons whom reside at Punta Chivato stopped here at Buenaventura. Told me that Munoz"zz employees were arrested at the military
checkpoint north of loreto for possessing drugs. They were in a black truck. I have noticed the truck not at the hotel the last few days. Anyone have
more info.? |
Mark/Olivia,
Leave the assumptions and heresaying to your adversary.
It won't strengthen your case and make you look revengeful.
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TheColoradoDude
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| Quote: | Originally posted by OLIGUACOMOLE
it was for a group of Mexican families from Ensenada |
What happened to the families? Is it only illegal to serve and not consume? And if this was a set up, wouldn't someone from one of the families know
something?
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Cypress
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TheColoradoDude
| Quote: | Originally posted by OLIGUACOMOLE
it was for a group of Mexican families from Ensenada |
What happened to the families? Is it only illegal to serve and not consume? And if this was a set up, wouldn't someone from one of the families know
something? |
Yea, They know what they're told to know.
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