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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Barry
Tell the whole story. You pay taxes on your Federal Employee pension. Your medical insurance (blue cross) is 50% paid for by the government. You
ARE one of the reasons the debt is so high(Civil Service retirement ) Tell you what. Why don't you just give that stuff back to the people who are
supporting you and quit being hypocritical. The trickle down you are getting id from the bottom 97%. be more thankful to them.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by whistler
Barry A,I agree with increasing the tax base.Everybody is in favor of raising
taxes as long it does not raise mine.I am sure many people reap the benefits of government services and pay no tax.That includes me.
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Well, I DO pay taxes, and I don't (and never have) used most of those "services" you speak of other than Medicare which my Blue Cross Insurance
INSISTED I use when I turned 65, and my attending the CA University System as well as the Public Schools, plus infrastructure!!! If many of the
services offered were much more restricted (in many cases, non-existant) then I would be much more willing to pay higher taxes (but they would not
then be needed, would they?), but that is not happening as far as I can tell. If paying down the debt substantially was in the Law, then yes, I would
be willing to pay more in taxes, as we all should.
In the mean time and all along, the top 3% of the Nation (the Fat-Cats?) are paying 40% of ALL Fed. Income taxes, and that is certainly NOT equitable.
And another 40% or so Americans pay no Fed. Income taxes at ALL!!!! And now they want to raise Fed. and State Income taxes on the rich????? That
is OutRageous!!!!!! no, actually Un-American!!!!
Aren't you now glad you brought THAT up (whoever actually did bring it up)?? 
(until we get a Frame-report on Monday we have to talk about SOMETHING) 
Barry |
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EXACTLY, rts551, and it's wrong!!! Yes, I pay taxes on my Pension (so??).
I have no problem with being "hypocritical"---------EVERYBODY is "hypocritical"--------the point is that the conditions and pay-benefits that existed
when I joined the Govt. were part of the package, and one of the reasons I went with the Feds. But that does not make them right!!!! The Fed. pay
benefits have gotten out of control, and the Govt. cannot continue to make these insanely generous packages (which don't even come close to the
insanity in some Municipal, County, and State benefits) to an ever increasing number of Govt. employees--------it simply can't continue, and I think
we all know it, even if we won't admit it. NO COUNTRY CAN AFFORD IT!!!! unless it has natural resources (like oil) that fills the coffers
artificially.
If I thought that giving up my agreed upon Pension would change anything, I would do it in an instant because I can afford to. But unless we come to
some agreement in this Country on rules/laws REQUIRING the Govt./Congress to make the bold decisions to balance the budget, I am not willing to give
it up-----------you know, 'share the burden', and all that? THAT is why I favor a FLAT TAX at about 18% so we ALL have a stake in this Country and
"share the burden" of keeping it on it's feet!!
Barry
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
BajaBoy-----------who is "they"??? The Republicans???
Yes, I have followed the Wisconsin "situation" pretty carefully, I thought, but was not aware that "they" were aiming at my Pension as a
bargain-chip. I just thought "they" wanted to weaken the Union stranglehold on the States coffers going forward so as to balance the Budget. I have
never heard of any Republicans wanting to "take away" any existing Pensions--------just perhaps "reduce" them for new hires (reads future Pensions)
since no Govt. entity can afford to pay these "negotiated" rediculously generous stipens forever.
Barry, they can take your "stipend". Al it takes is to pass a law.
Get ready!
Barry |
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And who says those that are still working and putting into the system haven't earned it
I still go over the top when I hear people complain about teacher pensions. I contribute to my pension. I don't get social security even though I
paid into it for 20 plus years. I pay my taxes. It was promised to me when I was hired and thus was one of the reasons I went to work as a public
servant.
No "they" want to take it away..... |
bajaboy------if you paid into Social Security for "20 years", you certainly can get your SS checks now if you are of the right age--------not sure I
understand what you mean?? You have to have a certain numbers of "quarters of work" in the private sector, and 20 years worth of quarters is way more
than you need.
------and no, "they" do not want to "take it away"----your pension------where did you hear THAT? It's FUTURE Pension deals that must be reduced, not
current or near-term pensions.
Barry
[Edited on 5-20-2012 by Barry A.]
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chuckie
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The frame! The frame! Who took away the frame! The government?
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David K
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Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Careful Barry, using facts only gets them more angry.
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rts551
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Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
BajaBoy-----------who is "they"??? The Republicans???
Yes, I have followed the Wisconsin "situation" pretty carefully, I thought, but was not aware that "they" were aiming at my Pension as a
bargain-chip. I just thought "they" wanted to weaken the Union stranglehold on the States coffers going forward so as to balance the Budget. I have
never heard of any Republicans wanting to "take away" any existing Pensions--------just perhaps "reduce" them for new hires (reads future Pensions)
since no Govt. entity can afford to pay these "negotiated" rediculously generous stipens forever.
Barry, they can take your "stipend". Al it takes is to pass a law.
Get ready!
Barry |
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And who says those that are still working and putting into the system haven't earned it
I still go over the top when I hear people complain about teacher pensions. I contribute to my pension. I don't get social security even though I
paid into it for 20 plus years. I pay my taxes. It was promised to me when I was hired and thus was one of the reasons I went to work as a public
servant.
No "they" want to take it away..... |
bajaboy------if you paid into Social Security for "20 years", you certainly can get your SS checks now if you are of the right age--------not sure I
understand what you mean?? You have to have a certain numbers of "quarters of work" in the private sector, and 20 years worth of quarters is way more
than you need.
Barry |
No he can not. His pension offsets any social security benefits earned and payed for (only applies to certain federal and state employes).
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Barry A.
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Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
The frame! The frame! Who took away the frame! The government? |
No, the "frame" is on hold until tomorrow when we will get a full report (hopefully). In the mean time we are treading water with fun Political
stuff, don'cha know. 
Barry
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rts551
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Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Careful Barry, using facts only gets them more angry. |
That is right Dk. we are using the facts. Barry
has been misled. Do you not believe what I have cited or quoted?
Show me the facts (and not a bumper sticker)
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
BajaBoy-----------who is "they"??? The Republicans???
Yes, I have followed the Wisconsin "situation" pretty carefully, I thought, but was not aware that "they" were aiming at my Pension as a
bargain-chip. I just thought "they" wanted to weaken the Union stranglehold on the States coffers going forward so as to balance the Budget. I have
never heard of any Republicans wanting to "take away" any existing Pensions--------just perhaps "reduce" them for new hires (reads future Pensions)
since no Govt. entity can afford to pay these "negotiated" rediculously generous stipens forever.
Barry, they can take your "stipend". Al it takes is to pass a law.
Get ready!
Barry |
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And who says those that are still working and putting into the system haven't earned it
I still go over the top when I hear people complain about teacher pensions. I contribute to my pension. I don't get social security even though I
paid into it for 20 plus years. I pay my taxes. It was promised to me when I was hired and thus was one of the reasons I went to work as a public
servant.
No "they" want to take it away..... |
bajaboy------if you paid into Social Security for "20 years", you certainly can get your SS checks now if you are of the right age--------not sure I
understand what you mean?? You have to have a certain numbers of "quarters of work" in the private sector, and 20 years worth of quarters is way more
than you need.
Barry |
No he can not. His pension offsets any social security benefits earned and payed for (only applies to certain federal and state employes).
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This is very strange----------I have several very rich friends that collect Social Security-------what's with THAT???? I don't collect SS because I
don't have the requisite min. number of "quarters" in the private sector to qualify, but if I did I could collect SS AND my Fed. Pension, I am told.
(????????)
Barry
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rts551
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And guess what, he can not collect on his spouses record as well.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
And guess what, he can not collect on his spouses record as well. |
HUH???????? My wife collects her SS, no problem. I don't understand.
Barry
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rts551
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here Barry you can verify it on WIKI (you too David)
The Windfall Elimination Provision (abbreviated WEP[1]) is a statutory provision in United States law which affects benefits paid by the Social
Security Administration under Title II of the Social Security Act. It reduces the Primary Insurance Amount (PIA) of a person's Retirement Insurance
Benefits (RIB) or Disability Insurance Benefits (DIB) when that person is eligible or entitled to a pension based on a job which did not contribute to
the Social Security Trust Fund. While in effect, it also affects the benefits of others claiming on the same social security record.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_Elimination_Provision
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rts551
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So even if you earned the requisit 40 quarters, or my wife did, you can not collect because of the provision
'it also affects the benefits of others claiming on the same social security record.[2]'
So Bajaboy will not be able to collect SS no matter what it calculates out to be because he had two careers. One paying no SS taxes (even if the one
paying was longer than the one not paying). It was a slight of hand law to save money during the Regan years.
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
here Barry you can verify it on WIKI (you too David)
The Windfall Elimination Provision (abbreviated WEP[1]) is a statutory provision in United States law which affects benefits paid by the Social
Security Administration under Title II of the Social Security Act. It reduces the Primary Insurance Amount (PIA) of a person's Retirement Insurance
Benefits (RIB) or Disability Insurance Benefits (DIB) when that person is eligible or entitled to a pension based on a job which did not contribute to
the Social Security Trust Fund. While in effect, it also affects the benefits of others claiming on the same social security record.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windfall_Elimination_Provision |
It "reduces" the benefits, not eliminates them, or at least that is the way I read it.
-----but, I did not know such a law was in existance, and it sure does not seem to effect my wife's SS-------wonder why? By the way, I LIKE that
law-------if we don't need SS, we should not be collecting it, IMO. I have always felt that way. To me, SS is a "safety net", and should be treated
that way. (but I can't get my wife to agree with that) 
Barry
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DavidE
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Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Ah yes, Social InSecurity.
The Golden Years
Full Of Excitement Every Month
Let's See...
It's Going To Be June
Now Is That Going To Be The Month
Where I Must Do Without Food, or Without Medicine?
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Ah yes, Social InSecurity.
The Golden Years
Full Of Excitement Every Month
Let's See...
It's Going To Be June
Now Is That Going To Be The Month
Where I Must Do Without Food, or Without Medicine? |
You are not supposed to "live" off SS, David, it is only supposed to "suppliment" what you saved up for retirement, and/or your investments. Suzy
Orman pounds this into us every week, every year, and always!!!! (I love Suzy's advice-------almost always right-on-target)
Many citizens simply don't seem to understand that, and I have never been able to figure that out as it's no secret. 
Still, I think your food is more important that the "meds", and certainly much more enjoyable. I have pretty much discontinued my "meds" as the whole
"health" thing is just too confusing and ever-changing. I take my arthritis suppliments & CoQ10, but that is about it. I KNOW that they work. At
my age, everything is iffy anyway, and I am ready for whatever comes.
Barry
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DavidE
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Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Without meds I end up on a gurney connected to an I.V. and dripping bags. No matter how tough things may seem, I never *ever* forget that for many
folks around me, life is tougher, and fraught with more peril for they are trying to raise a family relying on little more than faith and hope.
But those out there that decry paying taxes, without those taxes I would be absent. I managed through ill fortune to end up below the bottom rung,
beneath the floorboards in a crack.
But I will be damned if I will give up.
I say this and more to try and temper remarks about the seeming futility, the unfairness of paying taxes. I paid my fair share but without income,
well, the words, The End, come to mind.
Paz Amigos
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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Barry A.
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Well said, David, as usual. I certainly have no smart-alex comeback to that. Forgive my generalities---------as always generalities step on
individuals, and I should know that by now.
I salute you.
Barry
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tripledigitken
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haven't we squeezed enough politics out of this thread????????
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Cypress
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Living off SS. I paid it in and now it's paying me back. Poverty? Glad to have lived long enough. But? What about the multitude of parasites that
never paid a dime and are sucking up the $$ from SS benefits?
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
haven't we squeezed enough politics out of this thread???????? |
I promise to quit before midnight, and patiently await the "report" on Monday about the "frame weld". I am really curious about what actually
happens.
Barry
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