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JDCanuck
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Quote: Originally posted by Ateo  | | Update: maybe this is already known, but I noticed there is a Tesla charger at los Vientos Hotel in Bay of LA (Bahia de Los Angeles). For future
reference. |
Thanks Ateo, I am also finding there are far more Level 2 charge options than are shown on Plugshare here in La Paz. Basically any NEMA 14-50 plug on
240v with 30 amp supply can be used with my included charge cable to charge overnight. So now we know how all the Teslas I am seeing down here
arrived.
[Edited on 6-21-2024 by JDCanuck]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck |
Thanks Ateo, I am also finding there are far more Level 2 charge options than are shown on Plugshare here in La Paz. Basically any NEMA 14-50 plug on
240v with 30 amp supply can be used with my included charge cable to charge overnight. |
“ NEMA 14-50 plug on 240v with 30 amp supply”
Does an ecar owner need to know that lingo?
I like filling up my ice car because i can get regular gasoline at any station, and i dont have to worry about the pump type or nozzle size.
Can i fill up any ecar at any charging point? I suspect not. Makes not sense why there are different electricity transfer rates, different charger
connection types, etc. i just want to fill up my car and go…. Seems like the ecar market will be fringe thing until there is some standardization
of charging points so we can refuel easily without carrying extra cables and connectors in the trunk for connecting to non standardized plugs.
Reminds me of english vs metric tooling. Most people in the world have gone metric, and the holdouts still using english units just make life
inconvenient for everyone else.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
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surabi
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Everything new thing is a learning curve for users, Goat. It's not a steep learning curve, though. Every EV owner manages to figure it out, it's not
rocket science.
Do you carry battery cables in your car? How about some extra oil? Maybe a few basic tools? A jack? A spare tire? Carrying whatever charging cable
might be needed for an EV is no different.
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JDCanuck
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Goat: I can recharge at any 120 v 3 prong outlet, any 30 amp 240 v outlet 4 times as fast, at any J1772 charger...faster yet, or at any 50kw High
voltage DC at a much higher rate as long as it has the standard CHAdeMo cord. Its all a matter of how fast it will charge. The car comes with a cord
to attach to either 120v or 240v normal house plugs, but also has 2 input sockets for the higher charge rate EV charge stations.
Does your vehicle need regular gas, premium gas or super grade gas? I have been in lots of remote towns that only offer 87 octane regular gas and the
owners carried octane boosters with them to add to the tank.
Where I live it is now demanded by code to install at least one EV charging 240v outlet in any new construction so this will soon cease to be an issue
at all except on long trips away from home. There has to be some accommodation to get 108MPGe instead of 20 mpg an F-150 gets. Those who want to
continue to burn gas and have far more maintenance are welcome to do so.
The NEMA 14-50 plug is the standard 240 v 50 amp plug you will find at any RV park. It has 3 upright slots both sides supplying 120v and was designed
to supply either 120v, 240v with simple adaptors.
[Edited on 6-22-2024 by JDCanuck]
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Ateo
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by Ateo | | Update: maybe this is already known, but I noticed there is a Tesla charger at los Vientos Hotel in Bay of LA (Bahia de Los Angeles). For future
reference. |
Thank you @Ateo, that is helpful but just for clarity, there is currently only one Tesla branded, Level 3 Supercharger location in Baja and that is in
Ensenda. The charger in BOLA would be a level 2, Tesla compatible, destination charger, similar to what I have in my garage, requiring about 8
hours for a full charge. |
Yep. This is the “Tesla” garage mounted one I have at home that is here in BOLA. Level 2. I figured it was obvious that it wasn’t a Tesla
Supercharger. 
[Edited on 6-22-2024 by Ateo]
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Goat: I can recharge at any 120 v 3 prong outlet, any 30 amp 240 v outlet 4 times as fast, at any J1772 charger...faster yet, or at any 50kw High
voltage DC at a much higher rate as long as it has the standard CHAdeMo cord. Its all a matter of how fast it will charge. The car comes with a cord
to attach to either 120v or 240v normal house plugs, but also has 2 input sockets for the higher charge rate EV charge stations.
Does your vehicle need regular gas, premium gas or super grade gas? I have been in lots of remote towns that only offer 87 octane regular gas and the
owners carried octane boosters with them to add to the tank.
Where I live it is now demanded by code to install at least one EV charging 240v outlet in any new construction so this will soon cease to be an issue
at all except on long trips away from home. There has to be some accommodation to get 108MPGe instead of 20 mpg an F-150 gets. Those who want to
continue to burn gas and have far more maintenance are welcome to do so.
The NEMA 14-50 plug is the standard 240 v 50 amp plug you will find at any RV park. It has 3 upright slots both sides supplying 120v and was designed
to supply either 120v, 240v with simple adaptors.
[Edited on 6-22-2024 by JDCanuck] |
Mandating charging ports on all new construction is a sticking point in the argument about it being voluntary.
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JDCanuck
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Tioloco: If it was a Tesla charger mounted on the wall, or an EV charger I would agree with you, but its a 240V wall plug 'similar to those which are
used for dryers, ev's or welders. Its not especially EV specific. If you have an electric stove, or dryer you already have similar but not
standardized 240v plugs. I guess the Electrical codes are written to avoid someone trying to plug a 50Amp draw into wiring designed for 30 amps and
causing a fire. We have codes for GFCI outdoor plugs, wiring sizes and breakers for kitchens as well, which have developed for the same reasons.
I'm with you on mandating EVs, its a political move and will never be 100% as there will always be exceptions. The motivation will be expenses and
reliability, and EV's are proving to be far less cost to run in addition to far fewer mechanical breakdowns or maintenance costs. What they should be
mandating is that manufacturers must be responsible to recycle the batteries when they become depleted. Here's what this site had to say about
recycling the batteries over a year ago. Apparently the biggest problem is they weren't getting enough batteries to recycle as too many people were
reusing them for solar storage instead.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a44022888/electric-car...
[Edited on 6-22-2024 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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Like Ateo, after only a few months of driving an EV and experiencing the safety features, smoothness, immediate torque available, great handling and
ease of operation I can't see myself ever going back to gas unless I really have to. They are just a dream to drive. There is a learning curve in
regard to the best least damaging charging options, but its insignificant in real use.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | Like Ateo, after only a few months of driving an EV and experiencing the safety features, smoothness, immediate torque available, great handling and
ease of operation I can't see myself ever going back to gas unless I really have to. They are just a dream to drive. There is a learning curve in
regard to the best least damaging charging options, but its insignificant in real use. |
I had a handyman doing some work for me here in California. He asked me how I liked my car, "It looks like it is brand new!" I told him I bought it
new 6 years ago and have about 70K miles on it. I said I had owned several "premium" ICE cars over the years and also a Toyota Prius hybrid. I said
my current car is 100 times better than any car I have owned in the past! I told him that I had the "self-driving" option and all the complaints
about it are true, but I have used that feature almost 100% of the time when I drive and it drives better than I do! I told him I will never own
anything other than a BEV and because I take very good care of my BEV (proper charging, cleaning, using self-driving, etc.), this current BEV will
probably be the last car I ever own! (Although I do have a reservation for an entry level CyberTruk, which I will probably cancel).
The handyman said that the reason he asked is because his daughter purchased a Tesla Model 3, two months ago, He said she had a one week learning
curve and then fell totally in love with the car and never wants any other car than a Tesla. He said she had an electrician install a Level 2 charger
in her garage and she has never been to a gas station or Supercharger in 2 months of ownership! She will never go back to an ICE vehicle! When I
picked my new BEV from their store, it was early evening. I had to drive that new, unfamiliar car for an hour to my home in the pitch dark and that
was one scary experience!!!! However, after a week of driving it, it felt like wearing a comfortable pair of worn-in bedroom slippers. Anytime I
ever have to drive an ICE vehicle now, THAT is a scary experience for me, flocking buttons and dials everywhere I have no idea how to use. I drove my
daughter's Prius Hybrid the other day, and I couldn't figure out how to even use the cruise control (it is located in a very inconvenient place that
requires you to take your eyes off the road!)
Despite what you hear about Teslas, and some of it is true, some of it is not, they make a very compelling car. However, they are facing some very
stiff competition from abroad (primarily Germany, Korea, and China) from cars that are not quite as good as a Tesla (in my opinion) but are getting
closer all the time in everybody's opinion (who know anything about BEVs). As the word gets out, more and more people are jumping on the BEV
bandwagon, which means to me that within the next 3 to 5 years, we will see Tesla branded, Level 3 Superchargers (available to all BEVs with a proper
adapter) about every 300 miles along Hwy 1 in Baja California from Ensenada to Los Cabos.
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JDCanuck
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Here is a review of what I think is the ideal Mexico BYD at a very decent price , the new BYD Yuan Plus. Range is about the same as the latest Leafs,
but the style is more like a Honda CRV Hybrid (and 6000 USD cheaper)
So that gives Mexicans three optimal BYD's to choose from at present, The New Shark Hybrid, this Yuan, and the newer ultra inexpensive Dolphin Mini.
No wonder the US and now Canada are adding all those tariffs to keep them out of the NOB countries. Only in Mexico eh? Pity!
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-byd-yuan-plus-first-...
[Edited on 6-22-2024 by JDCanuck]
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | Here is a review of what I think is the ideal Mexico BYD at a very decent price , the new BYD Yuan Plus. Range is about the same as the latest Leafs,
but the style is more like a Honda CRV Hybrid (and 6000 USD cheaper) |
Here is the problem with BYD brand. I referenced a legitimate test by some Tubers (up thread) who charged 6 different BEV brands to 100% capacity and
them drove them at the same highway speed until they ran out of electrons. Some had larger batteries than others (Taycan), and some smaller (Tesla 3)
so the test was on the EFFICIENCY of the battery they came with. The most efficient:
1. MBZ EQE = 94%
2. Tesla 3 = 90%
3. Taycan = 88%
4. BYD Seal = 87.5%
5. Polestar = 82%
6 BWM i5 = 82%
The problem with the BYD is that it not only had a relatively small battery pack but it also had middle of the pack efficiency which resulted in it
having the second lowest range compared to what the mfg. claimed. In my opinion, BYD is not ready for prime time yet. Yes, they are comparatively
both inexpensive and cheaply made in terms of materials, but you get what you pay for. The Porsche is probably the least value given its middle of
the pack performance and the highest cost of all in the group.
The observed range:
1. Taycan = 368 mi. (largest battery pack)
2 MBZ EQE = 357 mi.
3. Tesla 3 = 352 mi. (it had the smallest battery pack of the 6 BEVs tested)
4. Polestar 2 = 332 mi.
5. BYD Seal = 310 mi. (one of the higher overstatements of mfg. claims)
6. BWM i5= 296 mi.
In terms of efficiency for the battery pack the BEV came with:
1. Tesla 3 = 4.7 mi/kWh
2. Polestar 2 = 4.2 mi/kWh
3. MBZ EQE = 4.0 mi/kWh
4. Taycan = 3.8 mi/Kwh
5. BYD Seal = 3.8 mi/kWh
6. BMW i5 = 3.7 mi/kWh
If you decide to purchase a BYD in Mexico, take the mfg's specifications with a grain of salt. Even if sold in the US without a tariff, I do not
believe they are a good value, despite the cheap price until they have been in the market for about 5 years to prove their worth. YMMV.
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JDCanuck
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Yes, the BYD blade battery is slightly less efficient than the Tesla in US models using a slightly more efficient chemistry when new, but uses a more
robust chemistry. Using normal coolant, the BYD battery went through multiple puncture/crash tests without a fire resulting. BYD has always, even when
they made batteries only, prioritized battery safety over efficiency. This is why Toyota is transitioning through the battery chemistry that BYD uses,
the LiFePO4 chemistry prior to jumping to solid state. As far back as 2008 when Berkshire Hathaway invested in BYD as a large global battery
manufacturer, they have been known for their exceptional battery stability.
Tesla too has been converting to the multiple advantages of LiFePO4 of late in the largest EV market globally:
LFP batteries have a lower energy density than most other lithium-ion cells but are cheaper, have a longer shelf-life, are less prone to overheating
and don't use cobalt or nickel. Tesla already uses LFP batteries in its Model 3 and Model Y in China.
[Edited on 6-22-2024 by JDCanuck]
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oxxo
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Slightly less efficient calculates to 20% less efficient.
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JDCanuck
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Here we go: a LiFePo4 battery, when used in either solar or EVs will far outlast the other Lithium battery chemistries at present. Any present solar
battery exceeding 6000 cycles up to 10,000 will be LiFePO4. The other Lithium battery chemistries will be far below that. If you want to buy a used EV
and want the longest possible life for the battery pack, you will want LiFePO4 chemistry. If you want highly efficient storage /release from the
battery initially and are not concerned about life of the battery you will want one of the other less stable chemistries.
In the Chinese and most other global markets, they prioritize durability and this explains why BYD is growing far faster than competitors using the
traditional alternative of batteries supplied by CATL batteries also made in China. To compete in China, European and Asian markets Tesla has
embraced LiFePO4 as well at the slight loss of initial range.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | If you want highly efficient storage /release from the battery initially and are not concerned about life of the battery you will want one of the
other less stable chemistries. |
I have no argument with your viewpoint, and people are free to spend their money as they please. I am just trying to point out that Tesla overstates
their range by 10% while BYD overstates their range by 12.5%, regardless of what battery technology they are using. That is a 20% difference in
overstatement of range. If this makes economic sense to you, I say go for it. In my opinion, BYD should state the actual range of their batteries,
which is fewer kWh's than most BEVs, and then give a 250K mile warranty on their traction batteries because of their newer battery technology. Now
THAT would get my attention! The traction batteries in my BEV, which are the old technology, will probably last longer than I will be driving. 
My neighbor across the street, let's call him Arturo (because that is his real name) is 96 y.o. and still driving on the freeway! I don't know if he
has a license. EVERY time he pulls in or out of his garage, he misjudges the clearance on the passenger side of his Honda. BANG!!!! about once a
month he tears off the passenger side view mirror!  Bless his heart, he is a
very nice man and we jabber away in Spanish, but I don't ever want to be near him when he is "driving!"
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JDCanuck
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Range is very relative to speed and the various standards the specs are set at. In China they use a totally different set of parameters than in the
US, or indeed in Europe as well, and its long been understood their range is overestimated by US standards. I know my Leaf range drops by a full 20%
when i do 70mph highway driving as opposed to 30mph city driving, and Canadian parameter based range estimates clearly show that. My Miles/kwh is
actually very close to the BYD stated range at 70mph, so I'm assuming based on those same specs it would be 25% higher if I drove at 30mph, which
aligns again with Canadian standards for city driving as listed. It seems by the range estimates at highway/city the Teslas are optimized for highway
travel speeds, whereas the Leaf is optimized for city travel. Even something as minor as color will affect the range, as the AC draws a fair amount of
energy.
[Edited on 6-23-2024 by JDCanuck]
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | Range is very relative to speed and the various standards the specs are set at. In China they use a totally different set of parameters than in the
US, or indeed in Europe as well, and its long been understood their range is overestimated by US standards. I know my Leaf range drops by a full 20%
when i do 70mph highway driving as opposed to 30mph city driving, and Canadian parameter based range estimates clearly show that. My Miles/kwh is
actually very close to the BYD stated range at 70mph, so I'm assuming based on those same specs it would be 25% higher if I drove at 30mph, which
aligns again with Canadian standards for city driving as listed. |
I agree, range in the US is based on the NHTSB parameters which is generally more pessimistic than how other countries measure range. But, in terms
of my personal experience, over 70K miles, the NHTSB ranges, done on a dynamometer, are overly optimistic by about 10%. And therefore the range
assigned in other countries, like China, is overly optimistic by 20% or more for city/highway transportation.
I encourage you to make the best decisions for yourself after doing your due diligence.
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Ateo
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Here’s a negative about my Electric Vehicle:
While I’m on vacation I can watch the battery go down about 5% every day while it sits in my driveway - from my Tesla app 1000 miles away. Just
trying to show the whole picture. Hahaha. Most everything else is a better experience with an EV though.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ateo | Here’s a negative about my Electric Vehicle:
While I’m on vacation I can watch the battery go down about 5% every day while it sits in my driveway - from my Tesla app 1000 miles away.
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Yes, there will be some "phantom drain" from any BEV traction battery if left unattended. But 5% a day seems high, but then again it depends on the
climate when left outside - BEV traction batteries prefer in the mid-70's for optimum performance. I would check on some of your settings (like
preconditioning) when left outside for an extended period of time. Me? I just park mine in the garage on the charger with the charge level set
around 50% while I'm away. The car will automatically charge to maintain whatever minimum charge level I set. If you are losing 5% a day, you will
deplete your traction batteries in 20 days or less, depending on charge level when you departed. It is not good for traction batteries to leave them
at 100% or 0% capacity for more than a couple of hours. The same goes for the rechargeable batteries in your home electronics (computer, cell phone,
smart watch, etc.).
[Edited on 6-23-2024 by oxxo]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by Ateo | Here’s a negative about my Electric Vehicle:
While I’m on vacation I can watch the battery go down about 5% every day while it sits in my driveway - from my Tesla app 1000 miles away.
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Yes, there will be some "phantom drain" from any BEV traction battery if left unattended. But 5% a day seems high, but then again it depends on the
climate when left outside - BEV traction batteries prefer in the mid-70's for optimum performance. I would check on some of your settings (like
preconditioning) when left outside for an extended period of time. |
Hope you car is under warranty. 5% loss per day sounds ridiculous. Even 1%/day would be ridiculous.
Not very practical to own a car that cant be left parked for a few weeks or months.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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