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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
It's getting real old you calling those that have a divergent point of view to yours bigots and racists. Obviously you and goat can't have a
discussion without resorting to name calling?
You come off as a bitter soul.
Ken |
Bitter? Only disgusted with what is happening in this country and the WASPs who support this harassment law---and that is what it is.
Racists is not a viable term as there is no race other than the human race, but bigoted is viable.
Sorry, but I do believe that anyone who supports this bill is a bigot and a bitter WASP who cannot accept the change in ethnicity that is happening in
the country.
There are no redeeming qualities to this bill and it is improper for any state to pass such a law-----
So disgusted is more like it---and in this case, I believe the name bigot fits well. Or maybe it would be better if I just called it
fearful---fearful of the loss of control-----like Sarah Palin, people want their country back---the country controlled by the WASPs, thus maybe it is
the fear that causes the supporters of this bill to be bigots.
This is not a bill like Health Care, or Financial Reform that can be argued on merits, etc., it is a bill aimed to harass one ethnic group. And by
definition, bigot is appropriate. |
Slur count
WASP....3
bigot/bigoted....5
racist....1
Thanks for proving my point, again.
So, in your eyes, by the definitions above I am a bigot.
You are so misguided.
Ken |
WASP is a definition
Racist is an improper term
And sorry, but I do believe that support of this bill is a bigoted position----it supports harassment of an ethnic group.
Gees,---not opening this thread again----let the justification of this madness called a law continue.
Disgusted, truly disgusted-----
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
It's getting real old you calling those that have a divergent point of view to yours bigots and racists. Obviously you and goat can't have a
discussion without resorting to name calling?
You come off as a bitter soul.
Ken |
Bitter? Only disgusted with what is happening in this country and the WASPs who support this harassment law---and that is what it is.
Racists is not a viable term as there is no race other than the human race, but bigoted is viable.
Sorry, but I do believe that anyone who supports this bill is a bigot and a bitter WASP who cannot accept the change in ethnicity that is happening in
the country.
There are no redeeming qualities to this bill and it is improper for any state to pass such a law-----
So disgusted is more like it---and in this case, I believe the name bigot fits well. Or maybe it would be better if I just called it
fearful---fearful of the loss of control-----like Sarah Palin, people want their country back---the country controlled by the WASPs, thus maybe it is
the fear that causes the supporters of this bill to be bigots.
This is not a bill like Health Care, or Financial Reform that can be argued on merits, etc., it is a bill aimed to harass one ethnic group. And by
definition, bigot is appropriate. |
The Leftist Kool aid tastes good huh Diana?
The era of right wing biggots, 'wasps' in control (have you looked at the president lately) is long, long gone.
The swing way way to the left, and the trashing of American values and culture by those in control NOW is the very reason for what you see in Arizona,
New Jersey, Virginia, Massachusetts... and what you will see this November... namely the American people taking their country back from the leftist
(that fooled so many and lied their way to power).
You became a liberal after hearing both sides (I hope) as you grew... Why would you deny today's youth from having the same conditions as you had? The
teaching of only socialism and none of the facts of history is bound to have an impact once they learn they have been lied to in school.
How long is blaming corporations and calling people who want laws to be enforced 'bigots' and 'N-zis' going to work for you? Corporations create
products we all want or need, they hire people, they create wealth... and they pay taxes... taxes is what government uses to do what it does.
Conservatives love America and all the people in America who can manage to play by the rules here... we have little time for rule breakers. We see
liberals today as being power hungry, and only interested in gaining votes of special interest groups by promissing things to them at the expense of
hurting others... Like taking the side of the law breakers over the citizens here.
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Hook
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Allright, who served the turtle soup in here?
[Edited on 4-29-2010 by Hook]
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BMG
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Suspicion and cause are two very different things---probable cause is tangible and probable suspicion is not. It is ONE of the things the police
don't like about this law, except, of course that crazy one down there who thinks he is a little god. I heard him even say that he could tell an
illegal just by the shoes he was wearing.
So, now as the bill clearly states, anyone, any citizen can sue a local law enforcement agency if said citizen thinks the law enforcement agency is
not doing a good enough job. |
Probable suspicion and probable cause are different, but both are legal
conditions that law enforcement must abide by. If you do not believe that probable suspicion is enough for a police officer to act on then you will
need to get the Supreme Court to agree. So far, they haven't.
I cannot find the part of the bill that states any citizen can sue a law enforcement agency because he or she believes they are not doing a good
enough job. The legal requirement for the lawsuit would be that the agency adopted or implemented a policy to not enforce the law.
| Quote: |
A person who is a legal resident of this state may bring an action in superior court to challenge any official or agency of this state or a county,
city, town or other political subdivision of this state that adopts or implements a policy or practice that limits or restricts the enforcement of
federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law. If there is a judicial finding that an entity has violated this
section, the court shall order that the entity pay a civil penalty of not less than one thousand dollars and not more than five thousand dollars for
each day that the policy has remained in effect after the filing of an action pursuant to this subsection.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
This law does NOT mirror the federal law---only parts of it do and it is not up to the states to pass the law. Immigration is a federal issue----or
would you rather see the states have control of this. |
It appears to me that the new law requires law
enforcement to follow federal laws on immigration. Arizona will be turning illegal aliens over to federal officials. How does this change the law on
immigration? | Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
To support this bill is to support the open harassment of one ethnic group. That is supporting human rights abuse. |
To believe this statement I would have to believe that law enforcement officers are going to violate the law. I do not support
harassment of any ethnic group.
| Quote: | A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race,
color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona
Constitution.
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I'm sorry to hear that you feel anyone supporting this bill does it for reasons of bigotry and racism. I do
not consider myself either.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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BMG
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I too will end it here. I've made my arguments based on the actual wording of the bill and everyone is free to agree or disagree with me and or the
bill. I asked some questions in my previous post that I wouldn't mind seeing answered but I won't respond to or argue the bill any more.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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gnukid
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The case for Arizona immigration law is a cutout of the health reform legislation. First they setup divisive legislation then they let the people tear
each other apart, often on racial lines, then they tell you there are going to save you. Even the majority of Americans opposed this Obama care it was
declared passed.
This is political theater. Now realistically Obama care and Arizona immigration law may never come into play as clearly the gov are hardly capable
managers and currently a large number of states oppose it and have legislation demononstrating the lawlessness of forcing millions ot buy into a
system they do not want, that isn't cost effective nor efficient.
In the case of Arizona's law its' clearly designed to divide and cause racial division. Certainly there are reasonable interpretations that yes all
foreign people must have legal visas. However, most of you do not understand the law nor understand how it can achieved.
US Law applies to a legal PERSON, each of you may accept many legal PERSON identifications such as a driver's license or SS ID etc... however if you
have no legal PERSON you can not be charged or sued until you become a legal PERSON. Basically, the problem with persecuting millions of illegal
immigrants is that there is no capacity in the judicial system to legally determine Legal PERSONHOOD and prosecute. Now the laws could be circumvented
and people simply picked up and imprisoned like Guatanamo without legal proceedings but that is unlikely to succeed as well.
Really this case is simply a STRAWMAN to be knocked down in order to usher in immigration reform which will likely legalize 30 million Mexicans and
many others thereby hurting wages further and bringing on an increase of unemployment now hovering between 12-22% or worse depending on region. We are
seeing a clear plan to hurt the American Middle class in order to usher in larger States, the Unionization of North American and Corporatism across
the Continent and beyond. This is fast game, running hot right now, if you can't see it and you wasting time fighting your neighbor you are going to
lose.
Immigration has long been used in the US to weaken populist American ideals. In every case historically immigration has been used to deteriorate
individual US liberties and human rights.
Oddly many of you know the history, you've lived it but you forget so quickly. You forget what it means be a citizen and to fight for your rights, to
insist the federal government conform to law and to respect States rights. This is Federal vs State power play, it's not going to go away without your
involvement and understanding so tiem to get informed. Give yourself 15 minutes, turn off the TV and do some real research on immigration.
Now, looking at this thread you can easily see how this plays out theatrically, people imagine they identify with a narrowly defined left or right
paradigm and oppose the demonized opposition, but you fail to see you are all of common ground and in fact you are being played out in the same game
over and over to divide, conquer and weaken the populist position. Until you see yourself as common people with common ideals you will be further
weakened and likely lose all rights if you haven't already.
Each of you could, instead of screaming bloody murder, define reasonable policies and promote those, work together and accomplish legal framework for
reasonable migration and enforcement, wages, tarrifs, taxes and further look at the what is really hurting you and the economy, that is unfettered
spending and graft.
Keep in mind, this is a theme, this is a meme, this radicalization of immigration policy and racial division is a Mass Media Talking point, its
repeated on every corporate news network so you know its a manufactured message far from the reality, far from the truth.
We all believe in peaceful reasonable solutions, respect for human rights and the right for people to earn a good wage and be free from oppression, we
want a economy which treats workers fairly and markets that support fair wages, work toward goals you want.
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Trueheart
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I am reading in internet news that if 76,000 signatures (AZ voters) can be obtained on a petition (which will be underway shortly if it isn't already)
against the new 1070 law, and if this petition is properly filed by late July or early August, that this would cause the effective date for
implementation of 1070 law to be delayed until it is put to a formal vote of the AZ voters, which would happen this November, if petition gets filed
by July 1st, but not until November 2012, if petition gets filed after July 1 but before deadline in early August. I am not an Arizonan, but it seems
possible to me that 76,000 signatures could be obtained causing "a" delay. Also, the strategy for petitioners against this law would be to file it
after July 1 causing the voting to be delayed until November 2012. Is my understanding correct, and do you Arizonans believe that 76,000 signatures
could be obtained properly in the next, say, 90 days?
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Mexicorn
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Registered: 9-15-2009
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Psychotic illegal imigration disorder explained.
please review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uln3JUfl08
Copied from you tube
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DENNIS
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Arizona is sinking into a civil war. Maybe thats's what it will take to make people listen to them....and others.
Too bad things come to this, but when people on our streets deem the laws of the land irrelavant, it's time they were shown the light.
Anarchy is intolerable and the roads to rebellion should be closed...especially to foreigners.
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Barry A.
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-------that is pure balogna, plain and simple, at least for me and those I talk to and feel I know.
Barry
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Mexicorn
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Is this not related to thid thread?
As copied from youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uln3JUfl08
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Barry A.
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Sure, Mexicorn, but I just believe that this YouTube guy is wrong in his assessment.
Barry
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Mexicorn
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Arizona is sinking into a civil war. Maybe thats's what it will take to make people listen to them....and others.
Too bad things come to this, but when people on our streets deem the laws of the land irrelavant, it's time they were shown the light.
Anarchy is intolerable and the roads to rebellion should be closed...especially to foreigners. |
You are 100% correct Dennis the law is a racist law that must be struck down. The GOP has sunk to a new low. I'm disgusted with both Bilbray and
Duncan Hunter and have decided to work feverishly against them in thier next elections. They have sold out knowing what they are saying and doing is
wrong. Incidently they call themselves Christians.
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Mexicorn
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Sure, Mexicorn, but I just believe that this YouTube guy is wrong in his assessment.
Barry |
Barry I've seen you time and time again try to defend this racist law and I know deep down on some sort of a level you know it's wrong too.
Stay strong my Brother and Viva la Raza!
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capt. mike
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"Gees,---not opening this thread again"
hahaha you are reading it now i'll bet. you posted earlier that you would defer but then you couldn't resist more vitriol like spewing WASP at us.
let us put it into a different perspective for you...one you MIGHT understand.
you have a home. it is full of food. and a warm bed or 2.
you paid for it all.
a family comes to your door and without asking opens it and walks in.
they start eating your food. they use the bath room. they wash their clothes in your laundry room. they go into the back yard and hang out playing
music.
you ask them to leave - they refuse claiming it is their right as humans to share with you your obvious good fortune.
you call the cops - they say their hands are tied....so...you might take on the threat yourself. it is your right under the law.
WTF Diana T?? see any parallels??
i'll be in Asuncion in July - let's have a beer ok? i promise i won't bite.
but i would like to ask you not call me a WASP same as i wouldn't call you a defamatory word like $%^&*
 
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexicorn
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Sure, Mexicorn, but I just believe that this YouTube guy is wrong in his assessment.
Barry |
Barry I've seen you time and time again try to defend this racist law and I know deep down on some sort of a level you know it's wrong too.
Stay strong my Brother and Viva la Raza! |
What I truly believe in is the "rule of law" as the basic cornerstone of this Nation, and any other Nation that hopes to survive and prosper. I see
this new law as a terribly frustrated attempt to get the attention of the Fed. legislature, hoping that it will finally DO SOMETHING about the
out-of-control situation with our southern border. It is one of the most basic jobs of a Countries Govt. to protect and defend their National
borders------both north and south--------period! All other arguments are secondary to that, in my opinion. Our southern border is pure chaos, and
if should not be that way, and the horrible consequences of this border chaos are obvious, to me.
I truly fail to understand why this concept is so threatening to ANYBODY, including those that wish to enter this Country, or any other
Country-------I just take border-protection as a "given", by ANY Country. My emotions and emphathy for illegals already here in this Country take a
backseat to the primary problem-------porous and chaotic borders-------fix that problem, and fix it well, and THEN we will work out what to do with
the millions of illegals already here----they are 2 separate problems.
That's it, in a nutshell!!!
Barry
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Mexicorn
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
"Gees,---not opening this thread again"
hahaha you are reading it now i'll bet. you posted earlier that you would defer but then you couldn't resist more vitriol like spewing WASP at us.
let us put it into a different perspective for you...one you MIGHT understand.
you have a home. it is full of food. and a warm bed or 2.
you paid for it all.
a family comes to your door and without asking opens it and walks in.
they start eating your food. they use the bath room. they wash their clothes in your laundry room. they go into the back yard and hang out playing
music.
you ask them to leave - they refuse claiming it is their right as humans to share with you your obvious good fortune.
you call the cops - they say their hands are tied....so...you might take on the threat yourself. it is your right under the law.
WTF Diana T?? see any parallels??
i'll be in Asuncion in July - let's have a beer ok? i promise i won't bite.
but i would like to ask you not call me a WASP same as i wouldn't call you a defamatory word like $%^&*
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1.) I never called you a White Anglo Saxon Prodestent.
2.) If you were down and out with nothing from another country with just the clothes on your back would you be willing to work for food or would you
just barge into a local home and demand a meal and the remote control for the T.V.?
3.) Mike your arguments hold no merits- your just wrong my Bown Brother!
4.) Viva la Raza! Y que viva los Brown Berets verdad?
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Arizona is sinking into a civil war. Maybe thats's what it will take to make people listen to them....and others.
Too bad things come to this, but when people on our streets deem the laws of the land irrelavant, it's time they were shown the light.
Anarchy is intolerable and the roads to rebellion should be closed...especially to foreigners. |
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Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexicorn
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Sure, Mexicorn, but I just believe that this YouTube guy is wrong in his assessment.
Barry |
Barry I've seen you time and time again try to defend this racist law and I know deep down on some sort of a level you know it's wrong too.
Stay strong my Brother and Viva la Raza! |
What I truly believe in is the "rule of law" as the basic cornerstone of this Nation, and any other Nation that hopes to survive and prosper.
(Laws like the Jim Crow laws? They were once Laws would you have been so adament to protect those laws?)
I see this new law as a terribly frustrated attempt to get the attention of the Fed. legislature, hoping that it will finally DO SOMETHING about the
out-of-control situation with our southern border. It is one of the most basic jobs of a Countries Govt. to protect and defend their National
borders------both north and south--------period!
"Terribly frustrated attempt to get the fed and Legisture hoping it will finaly do something."
(Why now Why not 4 years ago re speaking to the fact that the race baiters were not at it then so why not now?)
All other arguments are secondary to that, in my opinion. Our southern border is pure chaos, and if should not be that way, and the horrible
consequences of this border chaos are obvious, to me.
(Maybe if us Americans didnt have such a strong appetite for illegal drugs and cheap labor this Chaos as you call it would not be such an issue)
I truly fail to understand why this concept is so threatening to ANYBODY, including those that wish to enter this Country, or any other
Country-------I just take border-protection as a "given", by ANY Country. My emotions and emphathy for illegals already here in this Country take a
backseat to the primary problem-------porous and chaotic borders-------fix that problem, and fix it well, and THEN we will work out what to do with
the millions of illegals already here----they are 2 separate problems.
That's it, in a nutshell!!!
(Fix The Problem- sounds to me your just upset about healthcare and figured you'd puch the race card issue)
(Thats it in a tear gas shell being into a crowd of demonstrating Latinos!?
Barry |
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Arizona is sinking into a civil war. Maybe thats's what it will take to make people listen to them....and others.
Too bad things come to this, but when people on our streets deem the laws of the land irrelavant, it's time they were shown the light.
Anarchy is intolerable and the roads to rebellion should be closed...especially to foreigners. |
Once again, I agree with your assessment.
I think people are too quick to point out immigration as a Democrat versus Republican issue. I think there are many Dems that support enforcing
exhisting immigration law (myself included) while many Republicans might be against increased enforcement. We are a nation of laws and as such we
need to abide and follow our laws. For those of you that feel the US should have open borders then contact your representatives and tell them to
change the laws.
As for the blanket name-calling, well, that is pure ignorance in my opinion.
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