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mtgoat666
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ramsanus53:
you like to tell us all about other peoples illegal acts. why don't you tell us about your crimes? this is you chance to repent and come clean.
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ramuma53
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jenny.navarrette
I am portraying the Fideicomiso as bank trust, because it is similar and serve similar purposes not because it is identical and of course Mexico has
no bank trusts, it is only something similar, but if you understand a bank trust, you will understand that a bank is involved and it will hold the
property rights, while the buyer hold the possession and the seller the money obtained for the sale.
But concerning the bank being responsible, you are wrong, because the bank is holding the title property rights and it is the actual owner,
responsible to the buyer; if the bank receives a title with a defect, it hold nothing, but it is still responsible to the buyer for the money paid and
law ignorance does not condone the breaking of the law so what the bank does not investigate in time, will harm it and just ask it to Banamex, that is
the spirit of the law that created Fideicomisos, to protect the buyer financially.
Also the public notary, in Mexico is responsible to the government, about giving formality to the contract and formality means that he have to check
that the contract is made according to the law and that mean that the he has to check the title´s legality and yes he is obligated by law, to check
for defects in the title, but he is not obligated to look back on the title chain, if he has another public notary scripture, as the source of the
title rights he is getting and there lies the problem, they call it the diabolic test and they argue they are not obligated to do it, because they
would be putting in doubt another public notary work and that consider that almost a capital sin.
What they call the diabolic test, is to follow the title chain, until you find the first document and it must be a National land title, as ordered by
the Mexican constitution, but they do not want to check on another public notary´s work, they want to give it legal true status, but that position
cannot go against legality, or the constitution and that is why I blame the land problems in Baja, mostly on the public Notaries, that do not do their
work, according to the law and then later other public notaries, just take it for a legal true, not subjected to doubt. I am sorry, that cannot hold
against the constitution and it is not holding anything back, specially the National Land problems, because the law says that, absolutely no other
Mexican authority, can give away National Land and that is true for public notaries.
Another example will tell you a lot:
In 1959 a bunch of land owners that claimed to own the strip from Calafia to La Mission, went to a Public Notary and showing him a bunch of papers as
the public notary put in his official writing, some written on tortilla paper, all coming from informal sales made by Don Juan Machado and we wrote
that they showed him no title only told him that don Juan Machado claimed to have bought the 5000 Has lot from the National Land office, but no public
official paper and when he checked all the contract´s areas, they added to 19,000 Has.
Then the public notary just says that to avoid a public problem, he made a title giving away all that land and made his scripture and every public
notary from him on, claim that they cannot doubt his work; just tell me if that public notary writing can hold against the Mexico´s constitution that
forbid any authority to give away National land, allowing only the national land office to sell it.
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ramuma53
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mtgoat666
You must feel very bad having 666 on your pseudoname
Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess.
If you consider a crime to make public the law, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime to make a complaint about a restaurant selling protected species turtle soup, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime to help a 60 year old town, protect its land against governor´s friends who want to develop it against the law and without
paying for the land, yes I am guilty.
If you consider asking people to check on public notaries work, because they have not been doing their job, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime to think in Mexico and Baja before thinking on the developers benefit, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime to not bending on the drug traffickers actions, yes I am guilty.
If you consider a crime talking about a problem that is already publicly known and has taken away the houses from Americans, yes I am guilty.
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ramuma53
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Cypress
What we are trying, is that they can not do it just because they want their frinds to beneffit from it, or in an illegal way or without consequences.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess.
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perhaps i'll take you up that. stay tuned.
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lookingandbuying
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Your response is warranted
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess.
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perhaps i'll take you up that. stay tuned. |
Hi 666,
Why not take the "perhaps" out of your wording and come out and say you will DEFINITELY share the information you supposedly have, TODAY? You OWE it
to Sr. Munoz and the rest of us on the board that have read all the unsubstantiated innuendo about Sr. Munoz that you continually post.
My computer is running, my reading glasses are on and the volume is turned up so let's HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY...all specifically factually
documented, of course. 
Thank-you
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ramuma53
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mtgoat666
It is clear that you are not arguing, if what I say, is or not true, or if it will help people buying land in Baja or not, but you attack without any
provocation or reason and also without any proof of what you say and in that you are the same as Jesse.
By now you know me and you know that anything you say, I will prove with documents and laws, so I will wait for your lies and will demonstrate you as
a liar and I will surely take you up on that, but please also say:
Why you are so interested, in shooting the massager that carry a message that is clearly useful for American buyers???
Why don´t you just tell us now, when and why I broke the law? Because you must actually know, to make that kind of public accusations, or, do you need
to consult your people, so they tell you, how to attack the people who is clearly affecting their interests by allowing people to know what you want
to hide so desperately?????
Because when you attack, you must first have the bullets in your gun, not threaten people and then ask for the bullets.
Instead of discouraging me, your un provoked and false accusations, encourage me, because that mean, that what we are providing here, is having an
effect, on the people causing the problem, the people benefiting from other people´s problems, people that only think in short time profit, that does
not care about Mexico or Baja´s name in front of Mexico´s guests and only want to walk safe on the beach their golden years.
People who do not care about the actual Baja North estate, that is on every investor´s black list, around the world for real estate investments.
Answer this and then bring every accusation you may think you have and I will refute you publicly and with proof as always and let people here judge
us, but then, you have to accept the verdict.
[Edited on 3-25-2011 by ramuma53]
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Cypress
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Real estate ownership by non Mexican citizens in Mexico is a combination of smoke and mirrors. You've got clear title till you don't. You have
citizenship or you don't. All it takes is one accusation against you by who- the- heck- knows and you're toast. Reality check! Mexico was a 3rd. world
country, now it's a narco-state ruled by the AK 47.
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MitchMan
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Ramuma53, thank you for the responses to my question.
This thread is very intriguing. However, I am very insecure with regard to ownership in Baja by way of a fideicomiso, even if backed up with a title
insurance policy. If a fido functions like a trust while not actually being a trust, and if the trustee bank is in fact legally charged with the
legal fiduciary responsibilities of a trustee in the same way that a trustee of an actual trust, then the trustee has no indemnification
responsibilities in case of a defect in the legal title.
In a true trust, the trustee simply acquired title as is and has management/custodial responsibilities pursuant to the best interest of the
beneficiary. Generally speaking, that’s it. The quality of the title that the trustee acquired is the same quality that the trustor/beneficiary would
have acquired had such trustor/beneficiary been allowed to receive such title in the Baja. In a true trust, per se, the trustee functions in the
capacity of a custodian of the property title, is technically the owner especially with regard to the specific ability to transfer title in writing
and not an indemnifier nor a guarantor of the quality of the title. Fiduciary responsibility is to act in the best interest of the
trustor/beneficiary, not to indemnify the title. That’s the sole responsibility of title insurance.
However, because of the world wide defective nature of law, the title policies available for Fido acquired property in the Baja stipulate that the
insurer is only responsible for indemnifying items that were discovered/disclosed by the title search, and has no responsibility to indemnify the
trustee/beneficiary against legitimate claims against the policy holder that went undiscovered in the title search. Which, BTW, renders title
insurance practically useless.
Now, Rumama, this is pivotal and all important. Where is it written in Mexican law or in the fideicomiso instrument itself that the fideicomiso bank
trustee must reimburse the beneficiary, and/or that the trustee has indemnification responsibility in case of any and all defects of the title at the
time of acquisition of the title by way of the fideicomiso itself? I don’t need an interpretation, I need a pertinent unambiguous legally sufficient
citation of Mexican law.
I have done some legal research myself in the past, especially with regard to issues that affect financial matters, and I know that sometimes there
isn’t succinct, on point support. Sometimes it goes down to precedent, what the courts commonly adjudicate, legal construction, etc. But, in this
case, as a practical matter, anything less than specificity only leads to speculation and expectation, and that, in this specific issue, is next to
worthless and not any more reliable than a notion or a hunch.
I thank you in advance for any light that you can shed on this. Your responses on this forum and the time you have spent responding is impressive.
[Edited on 3-25-2011 by MitchMan]
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MitchMan
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Below are some quotes pertinent to the issue in recent post:
| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
...because the bank is holding the title property rights and it is the actual owner, responsible to the buyer; if the bank receives a title with a
defect, it hold nothing, but it is still responsible to the buyer for the money paid and law ignorance does not condone the breaking of the law so
what the bank does not investigate in time... |
Rumama, you mentioned above that the bank trustee is still responsible to the buyer/trustor/benefiary in case of a heretofore unknown defect in the
title. That is the part that would be assuring to have a controlling legal reference on.
Below is a quote/comment from you regarding the reason for the existance of the fideicomiso itself:
| Quote: | | ...the spirit of the law that created Fideicomisos, to protect the buyer financially. |
Not arguing with you at all, but I am under the impression that the reason for the fido was so that the Mexican government would have some legal
mechanism that would make it easy for them to readily and legally repatriate and reacquire title to sensitive, key strategic protected coastal and
border property easily if it thought it needed to for the purposes of it own national interest, be it defense or financial, or just out of Mexican
insecurity based on their historical experience with foreign countries. Nationalization is not something rare or unknown in Latin American countries.
If I am right on this last point in the preceding paragraph, then incentive for the creation and operation of the fideicomiso is not solely, if at
all, for the benefit of the foreign land owner, but for the benefit and support of the Mexican sovereinty. You and I both know that the foundational
reason for a given statutory law is a prime consideration in application and interpretation of a given law, not to mention how it is enforced.
I pose these things to you because I have confidence in your ability to set the record straight.
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ramuma53
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Cypress
As long as you accept that Mexico is a third world country, where everything is different and the most bizarre things can happen and are normal,
including that you can solve legal issues with a Kalashnikov 7.62x37 (AK47), you will continue to have problems and do, what the guy with the AK47
want.
I respectfully do not agree with you, Mexico is a 1.5 world country and that mean a it is country trying to become a first world country, that looks
or many people want everybody to think, it is a 3rd world country.
Reality is that with the law in your hand and doing things like if you were in the USA or any other first world country, you can protect your property
and also you can buy land and get it at very good prices if you know what you are doing.
The laws are there to protect you, the bank procedures and instruments are there but Americans thinking that Mexico is the way you say, accept to buy
without the legal and bank protections.
I accept, that Baja is behind in land legality, actually it is the worst in mexico, but in most of Mexico land legality is clear, just ask to the San
Miguel Allende Guanajuato American community or several old American communities in Mexico; there nobody has any land legality problems, everybody
sell and buy with full protections and nobody will accept an in house title insurance, they would laugh at it.
Also, one way or the other, Americans will take over both Bajas at one time or another and it will become first world, before many other estates, but
it will never happen as long as buyers keep believing, they can accept less than logical deals from developers.
Buyers have the power to buy or not buy and if you do not buy, the developer will go broke, but if the buyer keep giving money away, for less than
legal properties, to developers, that do not have to make the land developed, legal, they will just skip that part and take your money, leaving you
with the problems.
If you were right, I would not be here writing, they would have used the AK47 on me several times already and they would have taken my land away also.
I cannot say that they have not tried and are not at this time trying, but I have the tools to keep them at bay and anybody can do it with the right
information.
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ramuma53
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MitchMan
You are right, but the Fideicomiso is a tool that has to be used by a professional and it has a lot of power that usually does not get used; you can
draw a weak fiedicomiso or a strong fieicomiso and that is the part that I would like to remark.
You can draw a fieicomiso that really protect the buyer from any problem and obligate the bank to reimburse the buyer for title defects or any kind of
problem, but you have to make the fideicomiso that way and it will only be made that way if the buyer insist on doing it that way or he walk away and
most buyers do the same.
If you allow the bank to put its own conditions, it will evade most of the responsibilities, but if you put them in a deal breaker situation and most
people do the same, they will draw a strong fideicomiso that really protect you for any kind of problem.
The spirit of the law governing the fideicomiso was not as you say, to recover land, it was created to protect the foreigner buyer, that have been up
to that time, taken advantage by National sellers, on the forbidden by law land strips and protect the buyer mean to protect him from monetary damage
coming from any kind of problem, but you have to make it that way.
The tools are there, but you have to know how to use them.
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mulegemichael
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so....i guess mark and olivia are in prison now, right?....you are soooooo full of it!...sooooo.
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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MitchMan
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Great answer, Ramuma53. Makes perfect sense to me. Just to confirm my understanding of the key points to your response, it sounds like the existing
law relating to the fideicomiso, pe se, does not itself mandate/require that the trustee bank indemnify the trustor/benefiiary in case of a
pre-existing legitimate claim that was not disclosed by the time of the closing of the property acquisition, but such indemnification can be obtained
by a proper writing of the terms of the fido. Right?
If my interpretation is right, then that info is Golden!
Side point, can I interpret your response as a confirmation that I am right about the ineffectiveness of a title policy?
This is great stuff, man, just a little too late for me. In my travels, I have never personally met an attorney that knew his a#s from a hole in the
ground about basic law, even less about tax law. Mexican tax law is what I usually have to lecture them on. Not saying that about you, Ramuma53, you
seem to know your stuff.
[Edited on 3-26-2011 by MitchMan]
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SDRonni
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Reading all of this makes me want to throw up. We tried to do the right thing and thought all our t's were crossed and our i's dotted.....I feel
sick.....
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MitchMan
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Don't feel alone SDRoni. I had an attorney involved, had two real estate agents involved, ofcourse used a notario, and even had one accountant
involved. Not a peep about any of this from any of them, not on their websites, not anywhere.
This is the huge difference between American efficiency and forthrightness compared to the third world Mexico and its grossly unqualified and careless
so called professionals. Not you, Ramuma53. I have learned that, that is the rule out here in Baja land, it's part of the landscape. It is as
common as good Dorado fishing, great tacos, beautiful sunsets, lax sanitation, and friendly locals.
My wife keeps reminding me that the lax-ness of the culture is why I like it there. So, she tells me to shut up or get rid of the property and not go
back to the baja. So, I still go to the baja about 8 to 10 times a year.
BTW, my wife won't have anything to do with the baja, the people or its culture. She says semi-rhetorically "what kind of people commonly have bars
on the windows in their own neighborhoods, don't insist on cleanliness, half complete their houses, lack basic curiosity, are never on time to
anything, don't insist on potable water or adequate drainage, and have a cavalier attitude toward government corruption?" Then she answers her own
questions with, "Mexicans'.
[Edited on 3-26-2011 by MitchMan]
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ramuma53
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My friends
A fideicomiso is a very complex tool, that can be used for a lot of things, not only for Americans buying a home in Baja, it is used all over Mexico
for a lot of different business, but you can always make sense of its basic principles, all the other stuff is just detail for special cases and
please notice that I am trying to make this as simple as possible and not use complex professional language and some people will try to correct this
by using that complex language and correct me, but what we want here is to understand the basic principle and then extend it to infinity if you want.
The Fideicomiso is a contract between 3 parties, two who want to compromise between themselves and want to be sure the contract will be obeyed exactly
and the last one the bank; the bank act as guarantor that make sure the contract between the other two parties goes exactly as initially proposed and
in the case of the fideicomiso for houses, it is called ´translativo de dominio´ or that it retain the property dominium right (because the law forbid
foreigners to own property beside the coasts).
But the most important part, is that it is not restrictive, there is not one kind of fideicomiso or a set of obligations that must be obeyed, you can
make the fideicomiso as you make a contract and you put all the conditions, every condition or obligation you may think of, there are no limitation
but the agreement between the 3 parties and the law.
Of course being a complex tool, need special professionals to draw the contract and that is what you should find, your fideicomiso attorney, because
not every attorney know about the fideicomiso details, but you can get a fideicomiso expert in one bank and make the fideicomiso in another bank,
never use the own bank fideicomiso expert or they will draw the contract to favor the bank and that mean, make it as less liable as possible, the same
as you shall not use your other party in a contract´s attorney to draw your contract with him.
You can make a fidecomiso about going to the moon and exploit there a business or anything else and that mean that it can also obligate the bank to
anything he accept to be obligated, no limitation, and that include to repay you, if a title flaw is found in the future; of course they will tell
you, that is the title insurance job, but you can also include that in the fideicomiso, so they are liable to be sure, that nothing will affect you
and they are responsible to get the title insurance; in other words, don’t let them off the hook and if they want to get a title insurance for
themselves, let them do it, but the bank must be responsible to collect from the title insurance company, not you and be sure, they will never under
those conditions, accept an in house title insurance, much less when the company has its base in the Cayman Islands, my question to them, is why they
allow you to accept those risks when that is their job?.
Just remember that in a fideicomiso the bank acts just like another person that will compromise himself to the conditions you want him to be
obligated; if he doesn’t want to do it, go to another bank, it is a very well paid service they provide.
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mtgoat666
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cancer
| Quote: | Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Why not take the "perhaps" out of your wording and come out and say you will DEFINITELY share the information you supposedly have, TODAY? You OWE it
to Sr. Munoz and the rest of us on the board that have read all the unsubstantiated innuendo about Sr. Munoz that you continually post.
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i don't owe you jack, jack. read the turtle thread. ask around. ramsanus53 is cancerous scum on society.
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lookingandbuying
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Goat666 has no value or information
Originally posted by Goat666:
ramsanus53:
"you like to tell us all about other peoples illegal acts. why don't you tell us about your crimes? this is you chance to repent and come clean."
Originally posted by ramuma53:
"Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess."
Originally posted by Goat666:
"perhaps i'll take you up that. stay tuned."
(Goat Devil you should have at least included the above in
your post to me in order to keep it honest)
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Why not take the "perhaps" out of your wording and come out and say you will DEFINITELY share the information you supposedly have, TODAY? You OWE it
to Sr. Munoz and the rest of us on the board that have read all the unsubstantiated innuendo about Sr. Munoz that you continually post.
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i don't owe you jack, jack. read the turtle thread. ask around. ramsanus53 is cancerous scum on society. |
666,
You come on this thread and others that have a similar subject matter and make unsubstantiated comments and rude remarks. For your information, I have
taken the time to read the "turtle" thread...all 94 pages start to finish. Of course I read everything on the "turtle" thread except for the comments
on the thread that were deleted by Jesse himself. In the above noted thread you conducted yourself in the same manner you have here, a rude flame
throwing blowhard that is impudent. And, as you suggested above, I "have asked around". Specifically, I asked you since you offered and it is now a
fact you have no information of value, at all.
This thread should be for adults that want to have a serious conversation regarding real estate in Mexico and issues specifically related to title
defects or other subject matter surrounding this issue.
Go find a kiddie pool for the 3 years olds somewhere else. If you want to play here you should at least be able to contribute something that has value
or merit. So go and do whatever you want Goat666 as you are now fully exposed as the old wind bag that you really are. And, as is typical with old
wind bags in this day and age, you hide behind a keyboard and computer.
It would have been a better idea for you to explain yourself and provides facts behind what you claim. To bad you obviously just don't have any.
You are the cancer here. YOU do not add any value to the conversation here, at all. The term troll is too nice of a term for you. If you choose to be
a drive by flame thrower you should at least have the common courtesy to back-up your statements with factual information.
Have a nice day/evening.
YOU ARE DISMISSED!!!
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wessongroup
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Not bad... lookingandbuying.... your starting to come into focus.... big time
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