| Pages:
1
..
12
13
14
15
16
..
36 |
JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Originally posted by Goat666:
ramsanus53:
"you like to tell us all about other peoples illegal acts. why don't you tell us about your crimes? this is you chance to repent and come clean."
Originally posted by ramuma53:
"Why don’t you tell us what laws have I broken and then I will know what to confess."
Originally posted by Goat666:
"perhaps i'll take you up that. stay tuned."
(Goat Devil you should have at least included the above in
your post to me in order to keep it honest)
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Why not take the "perhaps" out of your wording and come out and say you will DEFINITELY share the information you supposedly have, TODAY? You OWE it
to Sr. Munoz and the rest of us on the board that have read all the unsubstantiated innuendo about Sr. Munoz that you continually post.
|
i don't owe you jack, jack. read the turtle thread. ask around. ramsanus53 is cancerous scum on society. |
666,
You come on this thread and others that have a similar subject matter and make unsubstantiated comments and rude remarks. For your information, I have
taken the time to read the "turtle" thread...all 94 pages start to finish. Of course I read everything on the "turtle" thread except for the comments
on the thread that were deleted by Jesse himself. In the above noted thread you conducted yourself in the same manner you have here, a rude flame
throwing blowhard that is impudent. And, as you suggested above, I "have asked around". Specifically, I asked you since you offered and it is now a
fact you have no information of value, at all.
This thread should be for adults that want to have a serious conversation regarding real estate in Mexico and issues specifically related to title
defects or other subject matter surrounding this issue.
Go find a kiddie pool for the 3 years olds somewhere else. If you want to play here you should at least be able to contribute something that has value
or merit. So go and do whatever you want Goat666 as you are now fully exposed as the old wind bag that you really are. And, as is typical with old
wind bags in this day and age, you hide behind a keyboard and computer.
It would have been a better idea for you to explain yourself and provides facts behind what you claim. To bad you obviously just don't have any.
You are the cancer here. YOU do not add any value to the conversation here, at all. The term troll is too nice of a term for you. If you choose to be
a drive by flame thrower you should at least have the common courtesy to back-up your statements with factual information.
Have a nice day/evening.
YOU ARE DISMISSED!!! |
Don't blame goat for your lack of experience here. You don't have all the facts, you don't know the history, and how do i know that? because anybody
that gives ramuma the benefit of a doubt, is obviously somebody that doesn't know what he is talking about. You claim you read the turtle thread
except for the parts i deleted, and foolishly base your opinions on that fact. But the fact is, that many people have deleted a hell of a lot of bad
information on ramuma because they don't want any trouble with a man that has issued death treats to others. ramuma operated under the wing of a well
known cartel money launderer, this is not gossip, this is a well known fact. Like i said, i don't have the time to explain to every newby that comes
here, the long and stinky history of ramuma. Its long, stinky, tiredsome, and i am not in the mood to receive any more death treats from that
criminal.
If you want to take (ramumas) advice, do it. But please don't dismiss the advice of someone (goat) who does know what he is talking about, just
because he doesn't want to take the time to teach you the facts. You seem to believe that doing your research is the way to go here, so practice what
you preach. Do your own reserach on ramuma, don't expect others to teach you what you should know.
|
|
|
lookingandbuying
Nomad
Posts: 102
Registered: 3-15-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
National Land title problem, or NOT??
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by lookingandbuying
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
People, people, people!!! what are you doing?? you are taking advice from a man who makes a living breaking every law he is talking about here.
Forget the shady unrealistic advice. In Baja, there is only one way to protect yourself against a man like ramuma, and here it is:
BUY PROPERTY IN WELL ESTABLISED AREAS, WHERE LOTS OF MEXICANS LIVE (ITS YOUR CHOICE IF ITS IN AREAS OF POOR MEXICANS, OR RICH MEXICANS), AND WHERE
THERE HASNT BEEN ANY LAND PROBLEMS AT ALL.
Predators like ramuma would never try to implemente one of his scams in an area where Mexicans have lived for decades, because they would raise hell
if someone tried it. The richer the Mexicans in the area, the less likely a scam artists will try to steal your land.
Buying property in the middle of nowhere, is far riskier than buying where people live and have been living for decades. Scam artists, pray on
properties where very few people live, specially if the owners of the property is an ejido where land problems are common. An exemption is buying
property from wealthy well known Mexicans with political power, because land thieves know they can't mess with them.
Thats it, thats all the advice you truly, really, need to know. |
Jesse,
I have spent a lot of time looking at real estate in mostly in the Rosarito corridor and researching issues mostly in this area.
The advice you get from EVERYONE even the so called professionals is ALL over the map and sorting through the various issues is almost impossible, if
not ENTIRELY impossible. The lack of good information is a big problem. I have also spent hours looking at comments left on this board regarding
real estate and prior to seeing the information left by Rumana53 it too is also all over the map. Lastly, I've looked at any available information
available on the Internet.
So maybe I would not dispute your part where you say:
" BUY PROPERTY IN WELL ESTABLISHED AREAS, WHERE LOTS OF MEXICANS LIVE (ITS YOUR CHOICE IF ITS IN AREAS OF POOR MEXICANS, OR RICH MEXICANS), AND WHERE
THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY LAND PROBLEMS AT ALL."
What I would like to know from you is exactly where are the "ESTABLISHED AREAS" you are talking about in the Rosarito corridor? I would also like to
know exactly where the areas are that you say don't have any problems even if they are not located in the Rosarito corridor?
People have been having problems with places they buy almost everywhere I have heard of in the entire country.
Then, Rumana53 comes on this board and speaks to the property issues from Tijuana all the way to Ensenada and says "if you are going to buy a property
in this area the FIRST thing you should do is go check the land file and ensure the first paper in the file is a transfer out of the National Lands."
He has said no more, no less. He has provided the history for the area and also cited the court rulings to support this fact he claims about the
National Land title problems that people will have if they buy a property that does not have the proper title transfer. This really seems like GREAT
advice!! It is also a very simple thing to do in order to protect yourself when buying.
Why is it that there is such a problem with Rumana53's advice? I did read the entire Turtle thread in my efforts to discover why there is such hatred
by some on this board against this guy. Unfortunately, I was unable to read any of your comments because you deleted all of them.
If the fact is that Rumana53 has used his better information to obtain lands from idiots that did not properly research the laws and he ended up
having a superior lien on the land because of their foolishness when they were grabbing the land and letting their money fly on deals that were to
good to be true in the first place then so be it. What about Punta Banda? Had these people checked they could have discovered and avoided the
problems they had in losing their expensive homes.
So, what I would really like to know is what specific laws has Rumana 53 broken. He has not proposed here that anyone break any laws. He has merely
advised people how to protect themselves when trying to buy a home. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?
Property and land title issues are a problem all over Baja, more so in Baja Norte. While I think your suggestion to buy in a well established area
that has not experienced problems (whether rich or poor) is a good one it does not solve the problem of all the land title problems in the area. And,
until it does people are going to be reluctant to invest their hard earned money in the area.
I do know that Rumana53 had a problem with his neighbor the hamburger/Turtle stew lady and some on this board disagree with the method he used to get
rid of her (is she still around?). The National Land title issue is an important and relevant one to anyone looking to buy a home in Baja, period.
What really surprises me is that many people do not take this issue seriously and this is a big mistake. I really could not believe how people missed
this entire issue in the Turtle thread and were more interested in bickering.
Sometimes you can disregard the messenger, but not the message. People deal in business all the time and the one with superior information wins,
everytime.
Lastly, in many of Rumana53's posts he states his intention is to help the buyer which in the long term will help the local economy...you would think
this is a good thing?
So, if you have a moment please share what exact laws Rumana53 has broken and if you have information that disputes his information about the National
Land title defect issue please share it here.
Thank-you |
1.-Obviously you are not familiar with the very long shady history of ramuma. Most nomads are familiar with it, but won't comment on it because they
don't want to get into trouble with a man like that. I am also tired of explaining the details of his shady past to new people that comes in and wants
explanations for something thats already well stablished around here. If you want to trust him or take advice from him, do it, but the man is famous
around baja for his shady land grabs. That is a fact.
2.-The problem with most americans that get into land problems here in Baja, is that they think like you do. Please, try to learn what i say, IN MANY
CASES IT DOESNT MATTER HOW GOOD YOUR RESEARCH IS, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LEGALLY SOLID YOUR PAPERWORK IS, because land rats operate completely outside
of the law and many times, with the support of the goverment. I CAN'T EMPHASIZE THIS MORE. You seems to believe that if you do your research, and do
everything right, you will be protected. But that is not true, because you are thinking like an american in america, and you are failing to see things
from the Mexican perspective. You can have all the right paperwork, but if i know the judges, if i know people that can validate fake paperwork for me
IN GOVERMENT, if i know investigators that can drag things for decades in order to break you financially and mentally, what good are your papers for?
That, is the element that many ignore, that many don't want to accept as a reality, because they are not used to dealing with that side in the US.
Foreign people that run into land problems in Mexico, many times just scratch their head and they just can't understand why "this is happening" since
all their paperwork was solid, and very well researched. And they scratch their heads because like i said, they foolishly think that security lies on
doing everything legally correct. That is not true. And it will continue to cause problems for people, unless they accept theres another element, that
they are not used to dealing with, that they don't understand, and most important, that they HAVE to learn about before they buy anything in Mexico.
|
Hi Jesse,
I really appreciate the time you have given of yourself in responding to the two recent posts I left. And really, isn't the entire purpose of this
board to "share" information a person has about the in's and out's of Baja that another person may not have, in an effort to help them out? This
"sharing" of information that people do here for other complete strangers is highly commendable in my humble opinion.
That said, you are correct, I am "not familiar with the very long shady history of ramuma." As you are "tired of explaining the details of his shady
past to new people that comes in and wants explanations for something thats already well stablished around here" I am quite surprised that you do in
fact come here, make statements as are included in the post above and then, want to be all dismissive when someone asks a valid question? It is sort
of hard to have it both ways. If it is so WELL ESTABLISHED on Nomads than why do you feel the need to comment at all? The way you talk about a
"newbie" is rude and dismissive in and of itself. You don't know anything about me, you don't have any idea how long I have lurked on this board
before registering, and lastly, you do not know what my full opinions are about the appropriate practice one should take when contemplating buying a
piece of property in Baja. Yet, you come here on your high horse and attempt to be a know it all and be dismissive and rude to a person that asks a
legitimate question...on something you posted. So how long does it take to get in your more superior class and not just be one of the newbies that
asks stupid questions?
You state that the "problem with most americans that get into land problems here in Baja, is that they think like you do." I really do want to know
how YOU know (or think you know?) how I think or feel about a subject, especially my thoughts on buying a place in Baja? Is it maybe that once you
are a non-newbie on Nomads you are issued psychic powers that allow you to read what's on everyone's mind (typed on a computer, through the Internet)
and to project their full thoughts on a subject? If so, I really have to get out of this "newbie status", right away!! Can I buy something like that
here?
This is the point where I start thinking I'm missing something. You state "If you want to trust him or take advice from him, do it, but the man is
famous around baja for his shady land grabs. That is a fact." Jesse, let's take the man and his past according to you (and the others you know) out
of the equation for a moment, ok? Is it true, or not, that there is a BIG problem with property titles in Baja that has to do with the failure of
land not being properly transferred out of the National Lands of Mexico?
Yes_______ or, No______.
So you will know a true fact about my thoughts on the subject of purchasing a home in Baja I will inform you that I would tend to agree with you, even
when a person thinks they have ALL the proper paperwork in the world (in correct order) reflecting that they OWN something in Mexico it can be as
worthless as the paper it is written on. And I would further agree that this is because the rats operate completely outside of the law many times,
with the full support of the government. I have never stated that if I (or another person) does EVERYTHING right or researches the issues that they
would ever be fully protected when buying a property. But on this issue you mention Jesse, even as a "newbie", I know this most unfortunate fact.
And Jesse, I am not thinking like an American in America. I fully recognize the various issues that occur when dealing in Mexico or any other country
for that matter. And on this last point you raised Jesse, it is mere speculation, about what I know or think, on your part, about me, and I guess
all the other idiot Americans that would like to come and live in the beautiful country of Mexico.
So when you comment about people scratching their heads when they have lost or about to lose their home in Baja even though they did have the correct
paperwork and you refer to people not wanting to acknowledge the underbelly of the problems in Mexico as you say "that is the element that many
ignore, that many don't want to accept as a reality, because they are not used to dealing with that side in the U.S." Personally, I do think many
more people fully understand this side of the equation and that is why they do not even pursue any further efforts in buying a place much less any
efforts about obtaining the appropriate paperwork. Do you know what they in fact do instead Jesse? They take their hard earned dollars and go
somewhere else to buy a place. And because of this fact it it not good for Mexico or the people that live there and try to earn a living.
In your attempts to respond to the post I left for the Goat you once again go into a diatribe about my lack of experience "here" and further go on to
state I do not have all of the facts. You premise your statement by further saying that "anybody that gives ramuma the benefit of a doubt, is
obviously somebody that doesn't know what he is talking about." And then you state "You claim you read the turtle thread except for the parts i
deleted, and foolishly base your opinions on that fact." So I'm just sitting here all confused right now as I truly just don't understand what I said
to make you say that I "foolishly base your opinions on that fact." What foolishness have I done. And yes, I did in fact read the entire turtle
thread, execpt for the parts you deleted. Again Jesse, the whole question is about whether or not there exists a BIG problem with MANY home and or
other properties in Baja Norte because of a National Land title defect issue YES________ ? or, NO________? Don't assume that either I or others do
not fully recognize the underbelly of the many other issues related to rats, fraud, theft, dead beats etc. PLEASE.
Jesse, the Goat did not provide any advice. He merely came on the board and made some rude comments about a man. And it really is too bad that the
Goat does not have the time to teach a mere "newbie" like me. You must both be such superior human beings, as, well, as I guess you are not a mere
"newbie" on Baja Nomads? It is just so very condescending at times when you make such statements. I am doing my own research Jesse and never have
expected others to teach me what I should know. That is why when I make a decision I make it after gathering all the information I can and doing that
bad thing "research" so I can make my own informed decision as a man and not base my decision on some other fool with their own agenda.
Lastly Jesse, I have seen many people on this board compliment that you have a very nice restaurant. Yet, when I did a Google search on your place I
saw comments left by a number of people that it is a very bad restaurant. I would think you would not want me to formulate an opinion one way or the
other based on anonymous people posting on the Internet. I would think you would prefer that I come down and taste the food and experience the
service before making any negative comments about your place. Same goes here.
Thank-you again for your valuable time. I hope you have a full restaurant tonight and the cash drawer reflects that many people enjoyed the fine
dining.
I do look forward to hearing back from you regarding your thoughts about the National Land title issue. And also, I do appreciate the other
information you shared about problems other than the title issue mentioned above as it too is a very serious one. I guess even with the problems that
you mentioned my personal preference would be to also have as many legally correct documents in my hands as possible.
|
|
|
ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
|
|
Jeese the known liar
This thread, concern to people that may think on buying property in Baja and Mexico in the near future, its purpose is to give them, some basic
general information, that they need, to avoid being taken advantage from, by developers or other people that just try to pass on other people, the
land problems they have, because at this time, the problems exist and are a major concern to land owners in Baja.
Those problems are fixable and they should be fixed, by the owners and those that are not being solved, should not be developing the land and much
less selling it to people that trusts them and are guest to this country they love.
I am providing here, the knowledge that unsuspected buyers, should have, to sort through the good and bad developers, in order that they can say that
they did a real research.
Many people think, that doing the right thing, is to ask the public notary or public official and that is enough because they are trustable people,
but, I am telling here while providing proof, that in Baja, those entities that should be protecting the buyer, are not doing their job right and have
been doing that, for decades, creating a problem that is exploding right now and the tip of the iceberg was Punta Banda.
I am not talking bad about this people or that, or making unsubstantiated claims; I am informing here, with history and the law in my hand, what
people should know before buying.
You seem to try to imply, that everything should be left the way it is and disregard what I say, but also you say, that everything is bad in Mexico
and if that were the case, people should not be thinking about buying a house in Mexico, you are defeating your own allies and contradicting your own
words and that is why I call you a known liar, because you just don´t make sense and people here are telling you exactly that, but you just go ahead
spilling your venom without the minimal proof, just claiming to know something the others do not, but people in this thread are asking you to share
your information or go out.
I think that you have the right to say what you want and other people have also the right to dismiss what you say and that is what I am going to do; I
will not even think about you, unless you say something that help other people, but I have to accept that sometimes, you rise questions that help
other people, understand the issue at hand, you may not provide useful information, but you rise valid questions that should be answered.
For you, everything in Mexico is crooked and to do the right thing, is a futile act and I respectfully do not agree with that statement.
Courts in Mexico are crooked? Yes, the Baja Supreme Court is known as the Persian Market, because they do not sell justice, they make a betting market
out of justice on the really big cases, but 90% of the time, they provide good justice, they have a corruption problem, that must be corrected, but by
just accepting that they are crooked in some cases, will not correct that problem.
Accepting that public officials, find easier to hide problems, than to correct a very unpopular problem, is not a Mexico’s problem, it happen all over
the world, but just accepting it, will not correct a problem that will not go away with just time and I think that if they do not correct it, because
the developers press them in to not doing it, then, the solution, is that the developers understand that they should press the public officials, in to
correct the problem and only one entity can force them in to do it, because it will cost them and that entity is a well informed buyer, that will let
them get old, with their luxury units frying on the sun, unless they correct a problem that they should not be passing over to the buyers.
I do not agree, on your statement that Mexico has problems that must be accepted, because that is the way it is, every problem in the world, exist to
be solved; USA had a problem in the 1920—1930 era, the gangsters and mafia were buying police and judges, something similar to what Mexico is doing
today and the solution was to correct the problem, they sent the Untouchables, but they were only the hands that got the job done, people on top of
them, decided that it was time to correct a problem, even if they in the past accepted bribes from them. It was simply time to correct a runaway
problem that, the gangsters were creating during their normal outlaw operations, do that sound familiar?.
This time has come in Mexico, just see the press people´s declaration on ´Vamos Mexico´ and they not only provided their names, they signed a paper,
now the real action will take place and it will not be pretty, as the Untouchable´s operations, were not completely pretty or legal, but it is
something that needs to be done and will be done, clearly not by you, but by people who care.
With the security problem, the land problem should be corrected, it has existed for decades and public officials, hided it for too much time, but the
rug, has not been hiding the problems enough, they keep coming out like in Punta Banda or Venustiano Carranza or CFE or Ejido Mazatlan or La Joya del
Mar, or La Puerta del Mar and we can go on and on; hiding the problem for 20 years have not corrected it and that is a fact that not even you can
denny.
Another example is the fiasco the Estate government went through, when they tried to expropriate the land around Playas de Tijuana and after a couple
of years, had to give most of the land back and they were defeated, with national land titles in hand while a lot of people lost their land, because
they did not had their titles and we know that, that was the Estate government goal, to take the unprotected land and provide it to developers as it
is actually happening.
The only person with enough power to force people with money to do things that will cost them is the buyer who knows how they are being taken
advantage of.
Mexico will correct its problems, because problems cannot exist forever in any place of the world, it happened in America in the 1930s and it will
happen here in the next 2 to 8 years and as soon as we start correcting the known problems, the sooner, we will be out of the woods, but people like
you that just accept the problems as unsolvable are a drag.
[Edited on 3-27-2011 by ramuma53]
|
|
|
ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
|
|
Aggravating the problem, the Estate Government, instead of correcting a problem they knew from the start, they profited from it in a political way.
The PAN Estate government used the information I gave them and used it to get rich in a Quasi legal way.
That is how Hector Castellanos Muñoz (One of the PAN political party main directors), ended up as a developer, the same as his sons and daughters and
I know, because he was my business partner in the 1992 to 1996 era and he was the one who at first promoted the land regularization in Baja.
That is why, you have to be suspect full when you find property titles based on CORETTE (Comision para la Regularizacion de la Tenencia de la Tierra
en el Estado) property titles, just remember the legal precept, that no Estate or any authority can give away or sell National Land, only and only the
National Land office can do that in the Mexico´s President representation.
Normally in any other part of Mexico, to do the Devil´s test, is a futile act, because Public Notaries have taken care of it, for you the buyer, NOT
IN BAJA, here you have to do it yourself, to avoid land problems and disregard any person (Public Notary, Public official or Real Estate Agent) that
tell you that in Baja, those things are done in a different way, because Mexico´s constitution is the law in every one of Mexico´s corners, do your
own research.
Also do not get involved with CORETT (Comision para la Regularizacion de la Tenencia de la Tierra) titles, because they come from Ejido land, its
base, is an Ejido expropriation, but if you at this point know, that no ejido in Baja was executed according to the law, then no ejido land is legal
and any expropriation have its original defects, specially the Ejido Mazatlan, that have became masters in stealing from buyers; I would not be fair,
if I do not mention that some Ejidos have done a lot to regularize their land and act in a fair way and the only one I know that has been doing that
for years is the Primo Tapia ejido near Cantamar.
Particularly be suspect full, if you find at the bottom of the title chain, a ´prescripcion´of any kind, especially the ones based on ´jurisdiccion
voluntaria´or ówn will´ because that mean, that you are buying a supposed possession right, that is subjected to give away the property to any real
owner that come in the future proving he is the owner, specially the Nation; those are supposed land property titles, issued by local judges, that a
judge issue to a person, that without any legal proof or right, come to him and tell him, that he is the known land owner and as proof, he just bring
two friends, who tell the judge, that they know for some reason, that he is the owner and the reason may be, that they went to a party there and he
told them, that he was the land owner, while nobody they know is the owner; remember that National Land is not subjected to time appropriation, they
are not subjected to appropriation by any other authority, even judges, but the National land office and believe me, this is the most usual way, the
Baja´s supposed land owners, got their supposed land rights in Baja and specially in Rosarito Beach.
For decades, the rich people in Tijuana, hired attorneys and got this kind of supposed property rights, those attorneys became Public Notaries and
judges and are very interested in preserving this state of affairs.
The Public Notaries, Public officials and judges are to blame, because they are obligated by law, to check that the land, is not National Land and
they did not do their job according to the law.
When a judge receives a claim for a land property right to be created, based on possession time and his ruling, he is obligated by law, to check if it
is not National Land and to legally notify the Federal District attorney, so he can defend the Nation Rights, but in Baja, they just didn´t do it for
decades, giving away large portions of National Land against the law, but since national land is not subjected to time limitations or appropriation by
any other means, the land, remained National Land and the judges only made futile acts that resulted in the actual situation.
According to the Mexican Constitution, (art.27 main text) the first document that must appear in a title legal chain, is a National Land title, no way
around this, does not matter what anybody says about this, no local law can be over the Mexican Constitution, no local judge can give away National
Land and as a inescapable consequence, you cannot legally acquire land that is not based on a National Land title.
Also suspect any National Land title issued between 1876 and 1917 because in the Mexican Constitution, those titles are declared reviewable because
those were issued by Porfirio Diaz, the Mexican dictator that governed Mexico at that time and issued National Land titles that violated the 1863 law
and the same apply to the National Land titles issued in the 1963 to 1969 era.
People invent estrange para legal words, like Moral owners or time owners, but you have to be real legal owner, you are paying for it.
[Edited on 3-28-2011 by ramuma53]
|
|
|
wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
|
|
Just super information... and discussion of "fact"..... thanks to all ... as it all helps
|
|
|
ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
|
|
Mr. Croswhite
Today I received a very aggressive call from Mr. Croswhite from Rosarito Beach number 661 614 6009.
He told me, that his family own, From Rosarito Berach city to Arroyo La Mission since 1879 and was very mad, because American buyers, are asking from
him, a National Land Title and told me the Public Notaries and Cadastral authorities are very mad, because I am scaring buyers, now, that business is
not exactly well, for developers in the Rosarito area.
He told me that his development, is completely legal, because they are based in an 1879 title, registered as private property and that even Ejido
Mazatlan, is based on their titles.
On this thread, I gave the Machado Croswhite family history and how they bought from the Porfirio Diaz Dictator 19,300 Has. In 1879, an area that
violate, the then prevailing 1863 law, that forbid the sale of more than 2500 Has. to anybody and to foreigners.
I told, about how the Machado Crosswhite family in 1915 when living in the San Francisco area, sold the land to foreign owned companies and those
sales, are registered on the first 21 registries on the Tijuana Public registry.
I told, about how in 1917 the First post Revolution President, Venustiano Carranza, published a decree, that returned to the National property as
national Lands, all the lands then in the hands of foreigners and foreign owned companies.
He told me, he is selling Olas Altas to Americans, based on those titles and he did not know about the 1952 National Land declaration that cover that
land, while that Presidential decree is published in the National Official newspaper.
He also told me, that he will talk to the Rosarito Beach and Tijuana Majors to stop me from publishing lies.
I am sorry, but I do not see, how publishing facts, that are published in the Official newspaper or the national Land law, is a lie or punishable in
any way.
He sounded very upset and menacing, angry to the maximum, but very little informed about the law or history, and that is the kind of people you are
buying from, this only exemplify the problem and the kind of people developing those lands, with an absolute ignorance about the land history, based
on legal maneuvers, that make them look and appear on the public registry as land owners.
How come people that sold the land in 1915 to a foreign company, is now in possession of papers that make him look like a land owner over national
Land.
The only good thing about this, is that it looks like American buyers, are using information to protect their money and avoid receiving land problems
that should not be theirs.
|
|
|
bryanmckenzie
Senior Nomad
Posts: 561
Registered: 9-23-2009
Location: 400 Km from Mexico Beach, Florida
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot & humid --- not hot & dry.
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by burnrope
I built my house on a giant turtle. It's not affected by the tide and I can move to different beach when I want to. |
Hmmmm. I like that. I thinkin' kinda like this ...
[Edited on 2011-3-29 by bryanmckenzie]
|
|
|
Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
Today I received a very aggressive call from Mr. Croswhite from Rosarito Beach... he is selling Olas Altas to Americans, based on those titles and he
did not know about the 1952 National Land declaration that cover that land, while that Presidential decree is published in the National Official
newspaper. |
Ramuma53- Give Mr. Croswhite a few days for this new truth to settle into his brain. I'm sure that news came as quite a shock to him. Now that he
knows this truth, "What will he do differently tomorrow?" is the important question. I don't blame anyone for being confused in this complicated
matter, including this man who likely thought his family is the legal owner of what is now National Land. The 1952 National Land Declaration should
not have been news to him, but it is- and he is in shock.
Thousands of people (nearly 10,000 views), including journalists are following this thread. Rosarito and Tijuana need legitimate growth through legal
sales with absolute security for the investors. Your land title thread has brought this critical topic to the surface, and as you can see- has
reached the people it needed to reach. No more Trump Baja's, no more Punta Banda's. There is too much transparency and access to this information on
the internet to keep this matter hidden any longer. Get it all out in the open, get the land titles straightened out, let the chips fall where they
may- but make Baja a confident place for Americans to invest again. Step by step. It has to be done. If not now, when?
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
|
|
|
lookingandbuying
Nomad
Posts: 102
Registered: 3-15-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito
Since we want to learn from other people experience, instead of committing the same mistakes, I will let you know, the True Rosarito Story published
by me, on the ABC newspaper and please let me tell you, that every single fact, I mention here, is backed up, by legal documents, that have been
tested and sustained already in Federal courts.
Around 1810, there was a Penal colony in San Diego California Mexico and the guys who guarded it, were called the LEATHER JACKETS, whose Captain was a
fellow named Don Juan Machado, who made such a good work and impressed so much the territory Governor, that in 1825 the Governor Jose Maria Echendia,
gave him for his services, 2 big cattle sites that had about 19,311.61 Hectares in El Rosario, now Rosarito Beach.
As you know, in 1848 California changed from being Mexico to part of the USA and people born in San Diego, was given the chance to say what country
they wanted to belong, Mexico or USA and Don Juan Machado with his family became USA citizens.
In 1863, the national Land law, was issued by Mexico´s President Benito Juarez, you can consult that law in a book named ¨5 siglos de Legislacion
Agraria de Manuel Fabila ¨ From that law:
Article 2 say, that it was forbidden to any of Mexico´s authorities to give away or sell National Land, specially the Estates governors also that it
was forbidden to any person to own more than 2,500 Hectares, also that it was forbidden to any foreigner and Mexican not living in Mexico, to own any
property in Mexico.
Article 10 say, that if the person who claimed National Land, did not make use of the land by putting on the land, at least 1 person for each 10
hectares, the title will become void.
Article 27 say, any violation to any article of this law rendered the title void and inexistent.
Then Benito Juarez died, the Second Empire Raised and fell and President Porfirio Dias took power in 1876, ending the chaos and starting the civil
government in Mexico.
In 1878, the son of Don Juan Machado, Joaquin Machado Valdez, knowing that his father title was void, claimed the El Rosario Ranch with 19,311
hectares from National Land office, in 1879 the title was issued by the President Porfirio Diaz and the title registered in 1885.
In 1889, a delegate was sent to Rancho El Rosarito owned by Joaquin Machado Valdez, brothers and co proprietors, to check if they had complied with
the law, having at least 1 person for each 10 hectares, or at least 1,931 people, they failed for 500 people bringing even children and the failure to
complain with the law documented officially.
In 1894, President Porfirio Diaz, issued a new National Land law (Ley de Terrenos Nacionales de Don Wistano Luis Orozco), allowing people to own more
than 2,500 hectares of land, but in the exceptions to the law chapter, he say, that you can own as much land you needed, but not more than the amount
of land allowed by the Benito Juarez 1863 law.
President Porfirio Diaz did this, to make a joke of a deal, he had made with American companies that were given ½ of the land, they surveyed in Baja
California, named Compañias Deslindadoras; the American companies, went ahead and surveyed the whole Baja, expecting to own ½ Baja, but the law didn´t
allow them to own more than the 2500 hectares limit, but they didn’t know it and measured the whole Estate, only latter knew of the law prohibition,
but by then the Federal government had already the survey works.
In 1910 Mexican Revolution erupted, Civil war everywhere, to try to overthrow the dictator Porfirio Diaz, who had governed Mexico then for 34 years,
war went over for 5 years, up to 1915.
In 1915 Porfirio Diaz was almost finished and had to go to France in disgrace and without money.
Then, everybody was commenting that the land limit will remain like in 1863, no more than 2,500 hectares will be allowed and the word went all the way
to San Francisco California, where the Machado Family lived away from war, as American citizens.
Joaquin Machado had died as American citizen and is buried that way in California USA.
The then Machado family composed of 11 of Don Joaquin Machado Valdez sons and daughters started to sell the Racho El Rosarito 19,311 Has. In San
Francisco, through the Mexican Consul there; they sold it to a Mexican company born in 1915 in Mexicali B.C. named ¨Compañia Explotadora de la Baja
California¨whose main stock holder, holding 99.8% of the company stock was a Canada Born person named Danzinger, the 2/10 % was owned by 2 Mexicans
and one of them lived in San Diego California, I should add, that they never got a permit to own stock in a Mexican company.
The sales are registered in the number one of Tijuana Public Registry´s book, scriptures number 1 through 19.
In 1916, The named President Carranza, having finished the Revolucion and having overthrown the Dictator Porfirio Diaz, published a presidential
decree (Official newspaper May 7, 1917) declaring that all the Baja California Lands, that were in foreigners hands, returned to the national Land
dominium and property, like the Hartford Connecticut company, making an example of that company.
In 1917, the new constitution was published by The Mexico´s President Don Venustiano Carranza, and it´s 27 article, it say that all the titles issued
between 1876 and 1917 were subjected to revision by the national land office to avoid validate any title that violated the 1863 law.
Knowing that he had just lost all the just acquired land, the Canadian owner of Rancho El Rosarito promptly gave away the El Rosarito Ranch, to his
wife, named Daisy Moreno, an Spanish actress, expecting, that nobody will notice she was not a Mexican, with the name being similar to a Mexican name.
As you see, The Rancho El Rosarito´s area violate the 1863 law, making it, and object outside of the law, not fit to be given away by any authority.
The 1894 law, did not validated that sale, and that mean, that the Joaquin Machado Valdez was inexistent, according to the 1863 law article 27 and
inexistence in those years, was the fact that the legal act, affected by it, never started to exist, in other words, the Joaquin Machado Valdez title,
never started to exist, also, if it ever existed, by violation of the article 10 of the same law, it suffered again of in existence. Simply, there is
no way to argue, that that title exist or have any legal effect, after that, but if something else were needed, when the Machado family sold the land
to a foreign owned company, it came under the effect of the Venustiano Carranza decree, returning those lands to the National Property, if we want to
speculate that at any time, it came out.
I should mention, that when I exposed this information to the COPLADEN official meeting in Tijuana´s Presidential palace, being present at that
meeting, the Tijuana Major Hector Osuna (Now Senator) and all of the Tijuana public notaries, one of them, argued that the May 7, 1917 decree was not
legitimate, because it was not issued by an elected President; remembering that Venustiano Carranza was named, not elected and under that light, all
of the Venustiano Carranza´s acts, would be voided also, but then, I counter argued, that if that was the case, then being all of the Venustiano
Carranzas legal acts, voided, then if he was the President that by his act, put in effect the Mexico´s actual constitution, then Mexico would not have
an acting Constitution and no law was in effect in Mexico at that time; being that an absurd, everybody accepted the 1917 decree as legal and in
effect.
This lecture was also issued at the Tijuana´s Commerce Chamber the next year by me, to all of the public officials and Real Estate agents and public
notaries, so nobody can claim not knowing.
[Edited on 1-28-2011 by ramuma53]
[Edited on 1-30-2011 by ramuma53] |
Hi Sr. Munoz,
I was very interested in your last post about receiving an angry call from a person named Mr. Croswhite. Until this last post you made I had not seen
his name mentioned anywhere in your information. The above post you had previously made about "La Verdadera Historia de Rosarito" does not mention a
Mr. Crosswhite in any of the information.
Can you tell us how and when he fits in to owning land in the area and the history of his involvement?
The one thing I would think is that it would be the EXISTING American owners that are calling around to verify or to check if they have a clear title
to their properties versus new people trying to buy a place. This would make much more sense to me as I do not think there exist many buyers
currently that are asking about this issue.
Whoever this Mr. Crosswhite is he certainly has a problem if he thinks that by calling the Mayor of Tijuana or Rosarito it is going to help his
efforts in trying to keep this issue quiet any longer like has been done in the area in the past. At this point, the true information is all out in
the open for anyone to see. Eventually, major American press companies will pick-up on this information/story and no one will be able to stop it from
spreading and informing any potential American buyers.
In addition to the above many have full printed copies of all the information discussed here. It can not ever be suppressed again by any one no
matter how powerful they may be in Mexico.
If you feel comfortable to discuss further how Mr Crosswhite fits in and how he supposedly came to be the owner of all of the land he claims it would
be greatly appreciated. I am sure there will be more people that come after him that are angry because of the information that is now out.
If you look at the number of views that this topic has had (last time I looked it was over 9000 views) this subject and topic has much interest. In
the 3 pages that they show on this site about subjects or topics that are recently viewed it is in the top 3 or 4 so there in much interest in the
information.
As I do not currently own a place I have no need to call and check on the legal status or correct title on a property in Baja. This is not the case
for many people and if I was someone that owned a place I would be making a lot of calls to the developer I purchased the place from and the Notario
and quite possibly the Title Insurance company to further check things out even though it is after the fact as it is better late than never to
determine if you made a mistake.
It is interesting that a man like Mr. Crosswhite that claims to own so much land in the area would not be better informed by his own attorneys and
feels compelled to contact and complain to you. I Look forward to hearing back about how/where/when and why Mr. Crosswhite is involved.
Thank-you!
|
|
|
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
It's Crosthwaite
And the family has "owned" a large parcel at La Mision since the 1860's.
|
|
|
Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
|
|
There is a BajaNomad thread on this family from 2007: "Irish Rancher in Baja"
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=27481#pid2684...
From BajaBernie on that thread:
Philip Crostwaite came to the beautiful valley of La Mision Baja California in the year 1861. He left his native Dublin, Ireland, in the year 1845
when he shipped out of London, England, on a voyage of adventure to visit his relatives in Philadelphia. He and a new found friend decided to sign on
to the schooner Hopewell for what they both thought was a fishing trip out of Newport, Rhode Island, to Newfoundland. It was only after several days
at sea that they found themselves being tossed about the in the violent seas at Cape Horn at the southern most tip of South America. They had been
duped and were not going fishing—they were heading for San Francisco. Talk about going the wrong way!
When they entered the harbor at San Diego it did not take them more than a minute to decide that they would jump ship and become deserters. Kicking
around the docks they found that a ship was pulling out that same day for the east coast—but it only had room for one more passenger. As the story
goes Philip turned to his friend and with a great grin exclaimed, “Let’s flip a coin”. They did and Philip lost.
Philip almost immediately became a favorite of all of the young ladies in town. His tall, sturdy Irish build, coupled with his wonderful singing voice
and his wide handsome smile captured the hearts of all he met. It wasn’t long before he met and married Josefa Lopez Rosas in 1848. They had many
handsome sons and four daughters while he was making a larger and grander name for himself. His Irish gift of gab and his natural ability to lead
people saw him become the County Treasurer, Sheriff, and Justice of the Peace. No! Not all at the same time.
His restless spirit caused him to continually seek out new and more interesting challenges. Baja California was a new and interesting place. He made
numerous trips looking at land in the Guadalupe and Santo Tomas valleys. No U.S. or Mexican customs officer were on the border. People just wandered
back and forth at will. No Tourist Cards, no inspections, nothing. They just crossed at will wherever they wished. There certainly was no waiting
going in either direction. And do not forget that he was in a bone jolting old buckboard and had to carry all of his own food and water. No McDonalds
on every corner—no corners! Rosarito Beach was still only a twinkle in someone’s eye. Toilet paper had not even been invented! A real rough trip.
Riding along the hills that rimmed the Pacific Ocean at just about where La Fonda’s Hotel in La Mision de La Playa is now located, he turned east and
saw a small river flowing out to sea from a beautiful green valley surrounded by craggy low laying mountains. This was it! The place he had been
dreaming about for years. In 1861 he purchased, yeah he got to “buy it,” the entire valley and even some grazing land up over the hills in Guadalupe
Valley. (There were no restrictions on foreigners owning land. Well, sure I guess a 30-year lease is better than nothing,) He bought the entire San
Miguel Rancho lock stock and barrel.
At some point that muddy river became the Crostwaite River. Now, a little over 140 years later, the river seldom if ever is able to break its way out
to the sea.
Behind the ranch house the native Indians tended a garden consisting of corn, squash, peppers, beans, potatoes and yams. The cattle provided an ample
supply of red meat for the family and all of the neighboring families. They were completely self-contained as far as foodstuffs were concerned. They
routinely harvested clams, mussels, abalone, fish and lobster from the sea. Salt was gathered from the ponds in La Salina—just a three-hour ride over
the hills.
Josefa and Phillips four daughters and seven sons did an excellent job of populating almost the entire area between Rosarito Beach and Ensenada to the
south. Various members of the clan would make the three or four-day trek to San Diego for what manufactured goods and clothing that they could not
produce in their valley.
Most of the modern Crostwaites have lost the ability to converse in the native tongue of the gregarious Irishman who started the whole thing. They do
still have that wide Irish smile, a gift of gab and blue eyes.
By the time Phillip died in 1903 he had buried his wife, two of his daughters and a grandson. They are all buried in the Crostwaite Family Cemetery on
a windy hillside with a view of the Pacific Ocean and the La Mision Valley.
Some of the old timers, like Gus Arrellanes, still remember round ups in the La Mision Valley and the cattle drives south to Ensenada in the late
1930’s and early 40’s. I’m told that these drives, as well as those beginning in the 1860’s, took about the same four to five days before they arrived
in Ensenada. There were a few bars, but no Papas and Beers; Hussong’s Cantina was around before the turn of the century. So the cowboys had someplace
to wet their whistles after a long dry cattle drive.
Now we don’t even need an excuse to frequent the same bars.
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
|
|
|
ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
|
|
lookingandbuying
I have mentioned early that a man named Joaquin Machado Valdes bought 19,300 Has. and named it Rosarito Ranch, that family is very cross related with
the Crosswhite name, both names are very common in the Rosarito area and very often, are the same family; at this time, the Crosswhite claim to be the
inheritants of the Joaquin en Juan Machado titles and when you mention the Machado family, usually in Rosarito you are referring to the Crosswhite
Machado, or Machado Croswhite family, they are simply the same family since 100 years ago.
As further reference, in 1992, One Mr. Croswhite, came to me and asked me, to help him legalize a land lot, on the other side of the highway, across
El Oasis, North of Rosarito, from the Road to Olive Oil Ranch; I checked and found out, that he had problems with Ejido Mazatlan, who were trying to
take his land away, using a falsified plan, but as soon as my technical experts tested the plan, we found out, that it was a forgery, because even if
the old plan showed a line on top of the Ejido Plan, it had no legal text description, also the land marker they tried to use, the 28B Federal Zone
marker, was installed in 1976, while the plan was made in 1947, clearly something impossible that a 1947 plan, show a maker installed 29 years later.
But when he was ready to go to court with the new information, he was caught by the Federal Police for something related to drugs and he just
disappeared for several years and the Ejido just took the land away from him.
When he returned, he came back penny less and asked me to help protect another land lot he had just west of the Jersey milk factory, but this time, he
was against the Bustamante family and he was just flattened in court, even if he had legal preference to claim the land from the National Land office,
because the Bustamante family is one of the wealthiest families in Baja and judges just went their way from the start, he had no chance that time.
Very curious that now Mr. Croswhite is trying to complain to the Tijuana major, whose name is Bustamante, exactly the family that took the land from
him and almost surely, the man who took the land from him or his relative.
Maybe they are not the same Mr. Croswhite, but certainly they are related, because all the Croswhite in Rosarito are related among themselves and with
the Machados.
Also since he was trying to protect his land, by buying the land from the National Land office, he clearly knew then, that it was National Land, he
supposedly acquired though his family, who got it from the old titles and when the foreign company, to whom they sold the land, never came back to
occupy the land they bought from them. Looks like I know more about Mr. Croswhite family history than himself.
|
|
|
ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
|
|
The Machado Family now the Croswhite Machado family.
First I have to explain that this, in no way, is a disrespect to any family, much less the Machado or Croswhite families, but, history, has no
feelings and historical facts are not to shame anyone.
Joaquin Machado was born in San Diego California Mexico, before California became part of the USA in 1849, when California and San Diego became USA
territory, both governments offered the inhabitants, a choice to be American or Mexicans and at that time the Machados became American citizens as the
smart thing to do, becoming also California Residents and continued living in San Diego but owning land in Rosarito.
When Joaquin Machado Valdez claimed the Rosarito Ranch 19,300 Has. He was USA citizen, California Resident and foreigner by choice and birth.
The family continued to live in California and expanded to the San Francisco area and to this day, the name is common in California also, intermixing
with the Croswhite family.
In 1916, they were very well established as American citizens and Mr. Joaquin Machado died as an American, he is buried in California as an American
citizen by birth, while his sons and relatives were living in San Francisco, when they got the word that the Mexican Revolution was ending and the new
regime, was going to upheld the 1863 law, that prohibited to own more than 2500 Has. While their title, was an illegal issued title, because it
violated the 1863 law on 3 law articles, 2, 10 and 23 and that law was to continue being a valid law in the future.
They with that knowledge, promptly went to the Mexican Consulate in San Francisco and through the Mexican Consul, sold in San Francisco, the Rosarito
Ranch, to the Company named Cia. Explotadora de la Baja California, owned by the Canadian born, Hugh Francis Collins in 99.8 % of its shares.
The sales are registered in the first 23 registries in the Tijuana public registry, book number one, in other words, they inaugurated the Tijuana
Public registry and anybody can check on that one as public information and if they try to hide it, I have a full copy of the first book, where the
sales are consigned.
Then as I mentioned earlier, in this thread, in 1917, their worst nightmare came true, the new Mexican President just out of the Revolution, issued on
May 7, 1917 a decree that returned to National property, all the lands in Baja, that were being owned by foreigners, but the Machado had just sold the
land and were happy to have dumped the property on Hugh Francis Collins, who lost it, but trying to fool the Mexican government, he promptly sold the
Rosarito Ranch to his wife, the Spanish actress, Daisy Moreno; and as I know, they did fool many people, because to this day, Moreno and Co, Succesors
have been winning court cases against Mexicans who have not bought from the National land office.
About 10 years ago, the Croswhite Machado family, started claims in agrarian Court, arguing that they were the Joaquin Machado Valdes inheritants,
but please consider this mathematical facts that make me happy to have studied Physics and Mathematics, when I first started my professional studies:
In 1879, Joaquin Machado Valdes, claimed that he represented the Machado family, consisting on 11 individuals, 1915, there were 13 Joaquin Machado
inheritants, but the other 11 Machado´s inheritants must be about 143 individuals by then, with equal rights and that is a geometric progression, that
would make that family rights, to be divided equally in to 2028 individuals by 1952 and in to 26,364 equal shares in 1987 and in to 342,732 equal
shares in 2022.
Clearly, no one can at this time, prove that he is a Joaquin Machado Valdes inheritant or at least, that he own no more than 1/300,000 of those
rights, represented by 19,300 Has. Or 193´000,000 m2 and in a mathematical consequence, they can each own, only 643.3 m2 ,if they were to prove, that
they actually are relatives to Joaquin Machado, something very doubtful, because most birth certificates documents, were lost to fires at the end of
the Mexico Revolution and may only prove they were American citizens at best.
Sorry for those families, but numbers do not give false statements.
|
|
|
jenny.navarrette
Banned
Posts: 275
Registered: 3-3-2011
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by lookingandbuying
At this point, the true information is all out in the open for anyone to see. Eventually, major American press companies will pick-up on this
information/story and no one will be able to stop it from spreading and informing any potential American buyers. |
You are assuming way too much. So far you have only heard the one-sided story that ramuma has posted. There has been no rebuttal posted from any
opposing party. Even if everything ramuma has posted is true, it does not mean there are not other mitigating facts and events he has not discussed.
Ramuma is telling you what lands violated what laws and when. But he is not a judge. There are legal defenses he is not discussing. If he says the
Joaquin Machado Valdez land grant violated the law in 1863 because there were too few people on it, that means nothing now. Something had to have been
done on a timely basis way back then. If nobody objected, and later President Porfirio Diaz issued and registered a title, then there is a title. And
those old laws no longer exist, having been superceded by the Constitution of February 5, 1917.
Even in Mexico, the law is the same as in the US. A document, like a recorded deed, is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is up to somebody
to challenge it and prove it in court. That has not happened and will not happen (proving it). There is nobody with any legal standing to contest it
other than the Mexican federal government. That land dates back to an 1825 land grant. Even if somebody did win a lawsuit, it would just mean the land
reverts to National Land.
Ramuma is just stirring up the mud. He is like those people who say they don't owe any taxes on their income because dollars are not backed by gold.
They have all these elegant theories, that sound good, but they always lose in the end. His arguments don't hold water, as my cousin Vinny would say.
Rumuma is just using you like suckers to try to muscle something out of somebody in Rosarito.
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by jenny.navarrette]
|
|
|
lookingandbuying
Nomad
Posts: 102
Registered: 3-15-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
| Quote: | Originally posted by lookingandbuying
At this point, the true information is all out in the open for anyone to see. Eventually, major American press companies will pick-up on this
information/story and no one will be able to stop it from spreading and informing any potential American buyers. |
You are assuming way too much. So far you have only heard the one-sided story that ramuma has posted. There has been no rebuttal posted from any
opposing party. Even if everything ramuma has posted is true, it does not mean there are not other mitigating facts and events he has not discussed.
Ramuma is telling you what lands violated what laws and when. But he is not a judge. There are legal defenses he is not discussing. If he says the
Joaquin Machado Valdez land grant violated the law in 1863 because there were too few people on it, that means nothing now. Something had to have been
done on a timely basis way back then. If nobody objected, and later President Porfirio Diaz issued and registered a title, then there is a title. And
those old laws no longer exist, having been superceded by the Constitution of February 5, 1917.
Even in Mexico, the law is the same as in the US. A document, like a recorded deed, is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is up to somebody
to challenge it and prove it in court. That has not happened and will not happen (proving it). There is nobody with any legal standing to contest it
other than the Mexican federal government. That land dates back to an 1825 land grant. Even if somebody did win a lawsuit, it would just mean the land
reverts to National Land.
Ramuma is just stirring up the mud. He is like those people who say they don't owe any taxes on their income because dollars are not backed by gold.
They have all these elegant theories, that sound good, but they always lose in the end. His arguments don't hold water, as my cousin Vinny would say.
Rumuma is just using you like suckers to try to muscle something out of somebody in Rosarito.
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by jenny.navarrette] |
Right on Jenny,
Of course there are ALL KINDS of legal arguments that can be made. I am NOT assuming to much! When I say it is all out in the open it was more
pointing to the issue that hey, there may be a BIG problem here, be careful, take this into consideration. In addition to the information presented
here by Rumuna53 there has been information added by Jesse that has to be considered...that being even if you think you have ALL THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS
AVAILABLE IN HAND you can still be a loser due to the corrupt system that currently exists.
Please feel free to add any other additional valuable information that you have, just like anyone else on this forum has the opportunity to do.
I can tell you one thing, if and when I do buy something down in Mexico I would certainly include issues brought up here and anything else I have
found and include them into the decision equation of buying. Maybe a correct price can solve some of these issues?? Or, as someone else said
somewhere above it confirms their current position that being a renter is a much better choice under the current circumstances. This is really what
phase I am in right now...keep renting and learning. Keep listening, trying to understand, weigh the risks and take into consideration what the price
is versus the risk to assess what is the best action to take. I suppose I would also incorporate the legal risk into all of this as I do not want to
get involved in problems and prefer to relax at the moment.
What about you? Do you just want to jump in and spend money disregarding information we have learned here? Or, would you take this information
discussed into consideration when acquiring a place. What does your magic view say. Do you have anyone to refer people to that can help with good
advice when they want to buy a place? Do you currently own a place in Mexico, are you a real estate agent, or do you plan on buying anything?
Yes, when all of this is solved we may be rotting under the earth or have our ashes spread over the mountains or ocean. If by chance I do decide to
purchase a place prior to that happening at least I can attempt to make a more informed decision prior to letting the money depart.
So Jenny, I don't think I am assuming too much, at all. In fact I like to see the issue scrubbed and debated to see where people go with it. Sort of
like your typical washing machine that works on the basis of agitating the laundry in order to clean it. Maybe we are in the rinse cycle, maybe not?
But you know what? I know people that have spent a million dollars on places that currently don't know about anything we have seen here and have no
clue of any potential problem they "might" have involved themselves in. Which camp do you want to be in? The one of at least trying to review
different perspectives on what the situation is, or those of just being dumb and happy until someone informs them they should not be so happy because
of all the problems.
Am I "assuming to much"? Don't think so. Are you assuming too much in regard to my views? I think so. But, I am open minded enough to hear more
about what your views are on this subject and anyone elses views too. Parsing one sentence of someones overall comment(s) is a bit misleading.
Have a great evening!!
|
|
|
lookingandbuying
Nomad
Posts: 102
Registered: 3-15-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
| Quote: | Originally posted by lookingandbuying
At this point, the true information is all out in the open for anyone to see. Eventually, major American press companies will pick-up on this
information/story and no one will be able to stop it from spreading and informing any potential American buyers. |
You are assuming way too much. So far you have only heard the one-sided story that ramuma has posted. There has been no rebuttal posted from any
opposing party. Even if everything ramuma has posted is true, it does not mean there are not other mitigating facts and events he has not discussed.
Ramuma is telling you what lands violated what laws and when. But he is not a judge. There are legal defenses he is not discussing. If he says the
Joaquin Machado Valdez land grant violated the law in 1863 because there were too few people on it, that means nothing now. Something had to have been
done on a timely basis way back then. If nobody objected, and later President Porfirio Diaz issued and registered a title, then there is a title. And
those old laws no longer exist, having been superceded by the Constitution of February 5, 1917.
Even in Mexico, the law is the same as in the US. A document, like a recorded deed, is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is up to somebody
to challenge it and prove it in court. That has not happened and will not happen (proving it). There is nobody with any legal standing to contest it
other than the Mexican federal government. That land dates back to an 1825 land grant. Even if somebody did win a lawsuit, it would just mean the land
reverts to National Land.
Ramuma is just stirring up the mud. He is like those people who say they don't owe any taxes on their income because dollars are not backed by gold.
They have all these elegant theories, that sound good, but they always lose in the end. His arguments don't hold water, as my cousin Vinny would say.
Rumuma is just using you like suckers to try to muscle something out of somebody in Rosarito.
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by jenny.navarrette] |
Hi again Jenny,
One other thing came to mind after I posted above. As "part" of your post you state:
"Even in Mexico, the law is the same as in the US. A document, like a recorded deed, is considered valid until proven otherwise. It is up to somebody
to challenge it and prove it in court. That has not happened and will not happen (proving it). There is nobody with any legal standing to contest it
other than the Mexican federal government. That land dates back to an 1825 land grant. Even if somebody did win a lawsuit, it would just mean the land
reverts to National Land."
The part about "it will not happen, proving it" is not true as this has already happened in places. Furthermore, where you say the worst that could
happen if someone wins a lawsuit is it would just revert to National Land is not entirely correct. Some people have an actual right to the land from
a grant issued under the National Land so it would revert to them. And, this is another a BIGGIE where you say if someone did win a lawsuit it would
just revert to National Land. This fact alone would be a HUGE problem for an American that bought and fully paid for a place that they THOUGHT they
owned!! Then, they find out after paying their hard earned money THEY DON'T OWN ANYTHING as it is owned by the government of Mexico!! I sort of
think this would really distress me if I had paid for it.
What am I missing on this point you bring up?
|
|
|
Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
|
|
As I read this thread, the "BajaNomads golden rule of real estate" keeps playing over in my head "Never invest more money in Baja real estate than you
can afford to walk away from". These title issues have been talked about for many years and was one of the reasons Mayor Torres drove the Gringo
Gazette out of Rosarito (We have a neighbor who worked at the RBH and they paid him to go around town and steal all the copies). This is one reason
our family chose to buy land in an established fracciamiento where Mexicans own the land, waited to get the legal land title, and then built a house.
BTW, that is still a good way to buy real estate safely in Rosarito, buy from a Mexican in a Mexican neighborhood.
Also, after reading the Croswaite Irish family history and Ramuma53's legal points- it does not seem all that complicated. The 1952 presidential Land
Decree is not ancient history. If this family history is true, and Ramuma53 legal points are correct (and actionable) it is only a matter of time
before more Trump Baja and Punta Bandas occur.
The argument that no one has been harmed by maintaining the land title legal status quo is wrong because it ignores what happened to hundreds of
American and Canadian retirees who lost their homes in Punta Banda and the $30Million in advance deposits gone at Trump Baja. Bothover land title
issues. This is because you have to trust the heirs to these land claims to do the right thing and not all of them have or will in the future. That
is why, imho- Rosarito and the developers need to get this all out and the open and the Mexican courts need to make a decision. Only then will there
be the transparency and trust investors are looking for. If they don't see Baja as a safe investment, they will continue take their money elsewhere.
Or they will buy existing homes and land in established neighborhoods as we did. Nothing wrong with that either and we are very glad we took that
approach.
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
|
|
|
Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
|
|
As I read this thread, that BajaNomads golden rule of real estate keeps playing over in my head "Never invest more money in Baja real estate than you
can afford to walk away from". These land title and title insurance issues have been talked about for many years and was one of the reasons Mayor
Torres drove the Gringo Gazette out of Rosarito (We have a neighbor who worked at the RBH and was paid to go around town and steal all the copies).
This is one reason our family chose to buy land in an established fracciamiento where Mexicans own the land, waited to get the legal land title, and
then built a house. BTW, that is still a good way to buy real estate safely in Rosarito, buy from a Mexican in a Mexican neighborhood. Even if you
live direct oceanfront- there is no guarantees some Mexican bandito won't build a condo tower in front of you on the National Land- just ask my
neighbor. It is not just the courts who need to decide who owns what, it is up to SEMARNAT and PROFEPA to enforce land title rights for the beach-
and good luck to us all on that one...
Also, after reading the Croswaite Irish family history and Ramuma53's legal points- it does not seem all that complicated. The 1952 presidential Land
Decree is not ancient history. If this family history is true, and Ramuma53 legal points are correct (and actionable) it is only a matter of time
before more Trump Baja and Punta Bandas occur.
The argument that no one has been harmed by maintaining the land title legal status quo is wrong because it ignores what happened to hundreds of
American and Canadian retirees who lost their homes in Punta Banda and the $30Million in advance deposits gone at Trump Baja. Both were land title
issues. This is because you have to trust the heirs to these land claims to do the right thing and not all of them have or will in the future. That
is why, imho- Rosarito and the developers need to get this out in the open (it already is) and the Mexican courts need to make a decision. Only then
will there be the transparency and the trust investors are looking for. If they don't see it as a safe investment, they will continue to invest their
money elsewhere. Or they will buy existing homes and land in established neighborhoods, as we did. Nothing wrong with that either.
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
|
|
|
ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
|
|
jenny.navarrette
YOU ARE ASSUMING WAY TOO MUCH. SO FAR YOU HAVE ONLY HEARD THE ONE-SIDED STORY THAT RAMUMA HAS POSTED. THERE HAS BEEN NO REBUTTAL POSTED FROM ANY
OPPOSING PARTY. EVEN IF EVERYTHING RAMUMA HAS POSTED IS TRUE, IT DOES NOT MEAN THERE ARE NOT OTHER MITIGATING FACTS AND EVENTS HE HAS NOT DISCUSSED.
Jenney, this is not a one way forum, here people can comment like you are doing and the reason nobody object is because there are absolutely NO legal
objections as was exposed in COPLADEN and the Tijuana Commerce Chamber in 1996.
Please post any mitigating event that has not been discussed here.
RAMUMA IS TELLING YOU WHAT LANDS VIOLATED WHAT LAWS AND WHEN. BUT HE IS NOT A JUDGE. THERE ARE LEGAL DEFENSES HE IS NOT DISCUSSING. IF HE SAYS THE
JOAQUIN MACHADO VALDEZ LAND GRANT VIOLATED THE LAW IN 1863 BECAUSE THERE WERE TOO FEW PEOPLE ON IT, THAT MEANS NOTHING NOW. SOMETHING HAD TO HAVE BEEN
DONE ON A TIMELY BASIS WAY BACK THEN. IF NOBODY OBJECTED, AND LATER PRESIDENT PORFIRIO DIAZ ISSUED AND REGISTERED A TITLE, THEN THERE IS A TITLE. AND
THOSE OLD LAWS NO LONGER EXIST, HAVING BEEN SUPERCEDED BY THE CONSTITUTION OF FEBRUARY 5, 1917.
As you say, that there are legal defenses I am not discussing, please tell them here to people so they can see a two sided story.
I am not sayin that Joaquin Machado title violated the law because there were too few people, I am saying that his title violated 3 legal principles
that are still to this day in force and the 1917 Constitution just took them from the 1863 law and repeated them.
The title violate the 1863 law in 3 articles, 2, 10 and 27, not just 1.
Article 2 forbid the sale of National Land to foreigners and Joaquin Machado Valdes was a foreigner by birth according to his own choice and as the
way he is buried in California, as a USA citizen.
Article 2 forbid the sale of more than 2500 Has and his title was issued for 19,300 Has and that mean the title violated the law that gave it basis
and in a consequence, it was affected by inexistence and that in that epoch mean, that the title never started to take effects and I remark, STARTED
because that mean, it never gave any right to Joaquin Machado.
Article 2 forbid the sale to Mexicans that lived outside of Mexico and Joaquin Machado Valdes lived in San Diego and later in San Francisco as
California Residents.
Article 10 order as a condition that the national Land buyer, put at least 10 people for each 10 Has. Claimed and that mean that he should have had at
least 1930 people colonizing the Rosarito Ranch in 1889 and it is documented that he failed to do that and the public official had to waith for months
there to allow them to try to reunite the people needed and they failed by a large chunk, failing to comply with the condition.
Article 27 order that in case of any but any violation to any of the law articles would have as a legal consequence the title legal voidance ´nulidad
de pleno derecho´that was the inexistence of the original act.
The 1994 national land law issued by Porfirio Diaz, ordered that any title that violated the 1863 law was void, confirming the law and that act was
directed to avoid giving most of Baja to Foreign Companies named Compañias Deslindadoras or Surveyor companies and that is the only reason why Baja is
to this day part of Mexico, any other way it would be USA territory by now.
So to try to condone a problem now, you create other bigger problems and believe me, the best minds in Baja have tried during 20 years without finding
a legal alternative.
In the COPLADEN meeting at the Tijuana Municipal palace, that was presided by the actual Mexico Senator Hector Osuna Jaime, then Tijuana major, they
tried to justify the title by taking away the May 7, 1917 Presidential decree validity, saying that President Carranza legal acts were not legal
because he wasn’t elected Mexico´s president but named after the Revolution, but I, applying a mathematical method, reduced the issue to absurdity,
because if only one of his acts were void for that reason, all of his acts would be void for the same reason and that would be ok, but he with his
signature put to work the actual Mexico Constitution and that mean that Mexico has no Constitution and since every law depend on the constitution,
Mexico would have no valid law.
So, please before even trying to express legal arguments against the National Land issue, please make a deep legal analysis that assure you, you will
not open a worst can of worms, to try to hide a legal fact, that no legal mind has been able to avoid in 20 years since I discovered it.
EVEN IN MEXICO, THE LAW IS THE SAME AS IN THE US. A DOCUMENT, LIKE A RECORDED DEED, IS CONSIDERED VALID UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. IT IS UP TO SOMEBODY
TO CHALLENGE IT AND PROVE IT IN COURT. THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED AND WILL NOT HAPPEN (PROVING IT). THERE IS NOBODY WITH ANY LEGAL STANDING TO CONTEST IT
OTHER THAN THE MEXICAN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THAT LAND DATES BACK TO AN 1825 LAND GRANT. EVEN IF SOMEBODY DID WIN A LAWSUIT, IT WOULD JUST MEAN THE LAND
REVERTS TO NATIONAL LAND.
Sorry but Mexican law is based on Roman law and you are guilty until you are proved innocent, there you are wrong 100%.
Again, you are talking about issues that you do not know because in 2003, an Agrarian court case was started by the Joaquin Machado Valdes estate
against Playa Encantada that is protected by a national Land procedure and the Machado family provided as legal proof the ABC newspaper where I wrote
the articles they were mentioning as proof and that act was a big mistake and made the Judge dismiss their case and latter lost in every higher court.
Yes you are right about that the Joaquin Machado has no open court cases, because they lost them all, because they were unable to show that they were
even related to Joaquin Machado, much less show a clean line of rights from him to the actual Machados. Those peoples, never wrote a legal will and
for what we know, I am more related to Joaquin Machado than any people who actually has the name Machado.
Sorry again, you are wrong, in 1825, the land was given to Don Juan Machado by the then Baja governor Don Jose Maria Echendia, not by the Federal
Government, while the then new acting Mexican Constitution forbid to any Estate authority to give away National land and that is why, Joaquin Machado
in 1879 asked for a valid title, because he knew he had no valid title.
Then in 1915 his estate SOLD the land to a foreign owned company, THEY SOLD the land, how people still argue that they own anything??? Or inherited
something form them, they sold the land and the issue that if the title was good or not is secondary for their cause, because when they sold it, it
was no longer theirs; the fact that the may 7, 1917 presidential decree returned the land to national land status, just confirm the National Land
property and that confirmation came on Nov. 7, 1952 on the Federal Newspaper. Simply there is no way the Machado or Croswhite family own anything in
Rosarito.
RAMUMA IS JUST STIRRING UP THE MUD. HE IS LIKE THOSE PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY DON'T OWE ANY TAXES ON THEIR INCOME BECAUSE DOLLARS ARE NOT BACKED BY GOLD.
THEY HAVE ALL THESE ELEGANT THEORIES, THAT SOUND GOOD, BUT THEY ALWAYS LOSE IN THE END. HIS ARGUMENTS DON'T HOLD WATER, AS MY COUSIN VINNY WOULD SAY.
Yes, I accept I am stirring up the mud, but if you want to sell to American buyers, you should have a clean house, not avoid stirring up the mud that
in fact exist.
This is not an elegant theory, because theories don’t take away houses like in Punta Banda, this an actual severe legal problem that will not go away
with time or your efforts to hide it and not stir the mud, it has been done for 20 years and the problem is still here because National land is not
subjected to time limitations, not able to be acquired by any other mean but a National Land title and I do not care about any local judge ruling, the
Federal law that is upheld today in Mexico say any acquisition outside the law is void. Those are not theories, it is the acting law.
RUMUMA IS JUST USING YOU LIKE SUCKERS TO TRY TO MUSCLE SOMETHING OUT OF SOMEBODY IN ROSARITO.
Well, that is this forum´s beauty, people can judge by their own, who is using who and who is providing useful information, it is not up to me to say
but also not for you say, let people judge that for themselves and act according to their own ruling.
I do not live in Rosarito, I have no political aspiration or want to muscle anything out of anybody there, I just want to help people there with
actions, not words.
The only time I have muscled anything in Rosarito, was when I put a black eye on Enrique Esquivel Haros, the Ejido Mazatlan´s eternal crook, and
caused him to become the first and only Rosarito Beach´s councilmen, with a black eye and a crooked arm and that happened in the Rosarito´s main
garden, when he tried to attack one of my technical people during a SRA public hearing.
So, please Jenny, you sound like a young more educated lady, but you first have to study the issue, for a while, before you can achieve what the big
attorneys have not managed in 20 years, to be the new, developers voice and advocate here.
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by ramuma53]
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by ramuma53]
|
|
|
JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
Ramuma is not just wasting his time here, if hes here investing so much time, its because i bet hes telling someone somewhere that he is a real estate
consultant to the american community.
This guy doesn't do anything, if its not helping him steal some land from unfortunate person.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
12
13
14
15
16
..
36 |
|
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
