BajaNomad - Megadrought Predictions

posted on 3-9-2015 at 01:11 PM

Hydro Electric is a lot cheaper than coal. Environmentalist have stopped dam building, however.

Thank God, otherwise we'd have no wild rivers or salmon.

------and in the grand scheme of things, "salmon" and "wild rivers" fit in where????

I love to fish, and ran wild and non-wild rivers professionally for years, but really?!?!?!?

Barry

More dams? The current dams in the USA are about to cost a lot of money! They are not forever. The history and effects of the Answan dam in Egypt are interesting.

This report is from MIT which you seemed to agree with as long as that one "scientist" worked there. :yes:

This certainly is not the only report out there.

http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2012/finalwebsite/problem/dams.shtml

The Wild River Act was passed for the same reason the Wilderness Acts were passed. It is to protect for the future some of the beautiful parts of nature that we are fortunate to have --- keep them unspoiled to be enjoyed future generations.

Which one of these rivers would you like to see stopped up with a "beautiful" new dam?

http://www.rivers.gov/

Shoot, when Mulholland gathered up the water from here for Los Angeles, he also thought the Merced in Yosemite Valley and all of the watersheds over there should be gathered up. All he could see was a lot of water going to waste. As he said, There it is, take it.

So you are not alone in thinking that more rivers should have dams.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by DianaT]

Barry A.

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Quote: Originally posted by DianaT

posted on 3-9-2015 at 02:08 PM

Hydro Electric is a lot cheaper than coal. Environmentalist have stopped dam building, however.

Thank God, otherwise we'd have no wild rivers or salmon.

------and in the grand scheme of things, "salmon" and "wild rivers" fit in where????

I love to fish, and ran wild and non-wild rivers professionally for years, but really?!?!?!?

Barry

This certainly is not the only report out there.

http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2012/finalwebsite/problem/dams.shtml

The Wild River Act was passed for the same reason the Wilderness Acts were passed. It is to protect for the future some of the beautiful parts of nature that we are fortunate to have --- keep them unspoiled to be enjoyed future generations.

Which one of these rivers would you like to see stopped up with a "beautiful" new dam?

http://www.rivers.gov/

Shoot, when Mulholland was up here gathering up water for Los Angeles, he popped over to Yosemite and proposed damning up the Merced in Yosemite valley because all he could see was a lot of water going to waste.

So you are not alone in thinking that more rivers should have dams.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by DianaT]

As you surely know Diana, the subject (s) are not black and white, or either one way or the other, as you appear to presume here, but they ARE pretty simple.

I don't necessarily agree with the MIT professor on Global Warming that I posted about--------I posted it because there are conflicting opinions by learned people, and I thought that important if not interesting.

Dams do have life-spans (they fill up with silt, for one). But, to rule out all dam-building seems dogmatic and unwise, to me.

As always, it is priorities that must be decided-------again my only point is that having wild-rivers and salmon spawning may not be the most pressing priority when it comes to energy sources, and water availability, especially down the line. That is not to say I don't love both wild-rivers and salmon fishing. It's just that the ultra-enviro-crowd often are so dogmatic and unbending that they want to protect everything at the expense of man-kinds well being and survival, it often seems to me.

Again, it's all about priorities. In Owens Valley's case, water for LA was paramount, and beneficial to the most people by far to move it south from the Valley. I can except that.

Hetch-Hetchy (a similar Yosemite-Type Valley) was dammed to provide absolutely necessary water to the Bay Area-----and Yosemite Valley was saved------a logical decision, to me at least.

Don't get me started on the "Wilderness Act" and how it has been abused by the enviro's, but suffice to say I believe we have gone wayyyyyyyy overboard on setting aside supposed "Wilderness Areas" and the draconian restrictions that come with them, especially in the desert areas, and believe me I was in the thick of that.

The "Wild and Scenic River Act" has been much better managed and implemented, IMO, and I have no real problems with that one. There are still many rivers that could and should be damned.

Your first link above does not seem to work, but your second one on rivers does. (for me, at least)

Barry

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by Barry A.]

monoloco

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 02:14 PM

Hydro Electric is a lot cheaper than coal. Environmentalist have stopped dam building, however.

Thank God, otherwise we'd have no wild rivers or salmon.

------and in the grand scheme of things, "salmon" and "wild rivers" fit in where????

I love to fish, and ran wild and non-wild rivers professionally for years, but really?!?!?!?

Barry

Barry, I was responding to DK's suggestion that we should just let the free market decide where we get our power. My point is that if we only used market based criteria, we would have dammed ALL the rivers with hydro potential long ago, we would have a lot more coal burning plants, and it's likely that solar would have never been developed. In the grand scheme of things, the salmon runs on those rivers provide employment for fishermen, 100's of millions in economic activity, and high quality protein.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by monoloco]

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monoloco

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 02:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Here's another of my postulations-

Let's talk solar panels?
Life span of panels? 10 to 15 years.
Cost recap rate vs other sources- 10 to 15 years. Net- 0 sum game.

I have solar panels that have been in service for almost 20 years old and are still producing over 95% of their original capacity. Those are 75 watt panels that cost around $500 a piece when new, now the cost of solar panels is less than a dollar a watt.

My sister and Bro-in-law installed solar on their new house in San Diego, and also in their second home in Borrego Springs, both about 20 years ago------------neither ever worked well at all, and both systems were abandoned after having thousands in supposed repairs made----------?!?!?!?!?!

Very discouraging!!! Presumably the "new" systems are improved???

Barry

We are completely off-grid, and our system has worked flawlessly. This last summer, this whole area was without power for over 3 weeks due to hurricane Odile, our system never missed a beat, even after having 2 panels blow away. I would never give up the security that our system provides.

"The future ain't what it used to be"

Stickers

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Here is an interesting way to deal with it

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article1298372...

.

David K

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 02:23 PM

posted on 3-9-2015 at 02:24 PM

So you don't trust people to want to buy cleaner energy? Don't you want to?

You missed my reply, or do you think only you want a clean planet and you must use government to force down the throats of everyone?

I think the majority of people want a clean planet, but most taxpayers don't want nor should have to be forced to pay more than they are already. If government were removed from the mix, energy would be cheaper.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by David K]

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Don't forget that without flood control dams such as Shasta, Orville, and Folsom in California, the Sacramento River basin would be in deep water every time we got the Pineapple Express aimed at Northern CA!
We are in one of the worst winters ever for rainfall, almost all of it came in two storm systems. Without those dams, the flood damage would have probably been far more costly than the drought.
Don't get me wrong, I am more of a wild river fan, but without flood control the Sacramento Valley could not exist the way we know it now.

If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!

"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 02:33 PM

posted on 3-9-2015 at 02:38 PM

..... If government were removed from the mix, energy would be cheaper.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by David K]

David,

Your comments are so anti-government most of the time, I am wondering if you think we would all be better off with no "government" at all.

What amount and kind of benefits do you enjoy as a result of any form of "government" taxation and subsequent benefits provided?

Just curious, as you seem to drop your government-hater innuendos quite frequently. :?:

Don't believe everything you think....

Barry A.

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 03:01 PM

Hydro Electric is a lot cheaper than coal. Environmentalist have stopped dam building, however.

Thank God, otherwise we'd have no wild rivers or salmon.

------and in the grand scheme of things, "salmon" and "wild rivers" fit in where????

I love to fish, and ran wild and non-wild rivers professionally for years, but really?!?!?!?

Barry

There always seems to be "the rest of the story". Ain't it grand???? :bounce:

Barry

David K

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Quote: Originally posted by motoged

posted on 3-9-2015 at 03:14 PM

..... If government were removed from the mix, energy would be cheaper.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by David K]

No Ged, I am not an anarchist, I am a firm believer in the Constitution and that it is the rule book for all national government activities. Government is needed at all levels in a society, but within its specified boundaries. Citizens do not need or should have a nanny government. Time to grow up and be responsible!

What history has shown: A government that governs least, governs best.
Places with the most government fail, are corrupt, or are prisons: Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea are examples of what more government is like.

mtgoat666

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 03:19 PM

What history has shown: A government that governs least, governs best.
Places with the most government fail, are corrupt, or are prisons: Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea are examples of what more government is like.

how do you measure size of government?

here is a list of the largest governments ranked by total budget:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_budgets_by_c...

which of the largest governments are failing?

nothing wrong with big government if it is good government.

mtgoat666

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 03:28 PM

Hydro Electric is a lot cheaper than coal. Environmentalist have stopped dam building, however.

Thank God, otherwise we'd have no wild rivers or salmon.

------and in the grand scheme of things, "salmon" and "wild rivers" fit in where????

I love to fish, and ran wild and non-wild rivers professionally for years, but really?!?!?!?

Barry

There always seems to be "the rest of the story". Ain't it grand???? :bounce:

Barry

often the best things in life come with costs. like sex, drugs and rock-n-roll, goofing off, daredevil thrills, and wide open wilderness. wilderness and wild rivers may provide greater benefit to man in a natural state, a benefit that outweighs it's resource extraction value. just because you can make a buck off a natural resource does not mean mining is the best and highest use of the natural resource, eh?

Barry A.

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Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

posted on 3-9-2015 at 03:34 PM

Hydro Electric is a lot cheaper than coal. Environmentalist have stopped dam building, however.

Thank God, otherwise we'd have no wild rivers or salmon.

------and in the grand scheme of things, "salmon" and "wild rivers" fit in where????

I love to fish, and ran wild and non-wild rivers professionally for years, but really?!?!?!?

Barry

There always seems to be "the rest of the story". Ain't it grand???? :bounce:

Barry

Hmmmm, I may see our problem here, Goat. I have never paid for ANY of the things you say have a "cost", that I can think of. :lol:

Barry

monoloco

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"Cost" isn't always monetary.

"The future ain't what it used to be"

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 04:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

posted on 3-9-2015 at 04:37 PM

..... If government were removed from the mix, energy would be cheaper.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by David K]

Honduras is currently going through a "less" government (libertarian) experiment, perhaps you should look into this David:

http://www.economist.com/node/21541391

An opinion of a traveler there:

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/02/my_libertarian_vacation_nigh...

Barry A.

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Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

Quote: Originally posted by motoged

posted on 3-9-2015 at 04:42 PM

..... If government were removed from the mix, energy would be cheaper.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by David K]

LOL---------well, no bias or prejudice in THOSE articles in SALON / THE ECONOMIST. (righttttt) Most of the stuff the "traveler" b-tched about I can't really relate to-------never saw things that way in my travels, but whatever. Personally, I like Hong Kong. His description of the residences & businesses reminded me of Mexicali back in the '70's and '80's------don't know what it is like now, but I do know that it did not bother me then.

Different strokes for different folks.

Barry

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An example of going WAAAYYY overboard
Just west of Las Vegas is a wilderness area. No problem with it being there. Then someone wanted to buy an old cement mining operation about 4 miles due east of the wilderness line to build homes. All of a sudden we had to have a "Buffer Zone" of no building to "protect the border of the wilderness zone! How far do you suspect that buffer zone went to the east? You guessed it, just past the mine area.

Barry A.

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 04:51 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Over-reach, always over-reach!!! So many tolerable, or even good ideas have been screwed up by "over-reach"!!! Drives me nuts!!! And some wonder why I am so skeptical of the eco-folks and their ideas---------because of examples like you, Cliffy, just cited.

Barry

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by Barry A.]

motoged

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posted on 3-9-2015 at 09:58 PM