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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
1.-I don't believe in open borders
2.-I believe the US has the right to control its borders
3.-If the US decides its necessary, they have the right to deport all illegals
4.-I believe the Mex goverment is responsible for Mexicans leaving for the US
5.-I believe US corporations, and to an extent, the US gov, allows this
6.-I don't think its right, to implements vague laws where you leave it up to police officers, to decide wether i should be asked for ID based on how
i look |
I agree with you on 1 thru 5, and I understand your feelings about number 6, but I submit that Police officers have always had the discretion of
stopping you and asking for ID if they can articulate "probable cause" or "reasonable suspicion" as to why they are doing so, on both sides of the
border. If they did not ask about your citizenship up to now, then that was because it was against local "policy". When I was a cop in San Diego in
the early '60's we always asked about citizenship if we had any doubts, and if no ID turned them over to the Feds.
We are closer than you may think in our beliefs and feelings, I am thinking.
Barry
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mtgoat666
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the problem with zonies/other govts is that they want to focus on pursuing the undocumented immigrants instead of pursuing the US employers.
it would be easier and cheaper to end immigration problems by going after the employers, but zonies/other govts don't care to go after employers,
because voters (white middle age and old age) are stupid/racist/xenophobic and are appeased if they see their govts simply chase around a few poor
foreign people.
the primary reason border fence sections were built is that it made good PR for idiots like hunter, and it provided govt funds to construction firms.
the wall is mostly pork.
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comitan
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JESSE
Thats it in a nutshell, very well said for me.
OK Goat, I'm with you on that.
Anyone else.
[Edited on 4-29-2010 by comitan]
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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rts551
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Barry
If thats the case then we really didn't need a new law. did we
Ralph
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
1.-I don't believe in open borders
2.-I believe the US has the right to control its borders
3.-If the US decides its necessary, they have the right to deport all illegals
4.-I believe the Mex goverment is responsible for Mexicans leaving for the US
5.-I believe US corporations, and to an extent, the US gov, allows this
6.-I don't think its right, to implements vague laws where you leave it up to police officers, to decide wether i should be asked for ID based on how
i look |
I agree with you on 1 thru 5, and I understand your feelings about number 6, but I submit that Police officers have always had the discretion of
stopping you and asking for ID if they can articulate "probable cause" or "reasonable suspicion" as to why they are doing so, on both sides of the
border. If they did not ask about your citizenship up to now, then that was because it was against local "policy". When I was a cop in San Diego in
the early '60's we always asked about citizenship if we had any doubts, and if no ID turned them over to the Feds.
We are closer than you may think in our beliefs and feelings, I am thinking.
Barry |
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tripledigitken
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
the problem with zonies/other govts is that they want to focus on pursuing the undocumented immigrants instead of pursuing the US employers.
it would be easier and cheaper to end immigration problems by going after the employers, but zonies/other govts don't care to go after employers,
because voters (white middle age and old age) are stupid/racist/xenophobic and are appeased if they see their govts simply chase around a few poor
foreign people.
the primary reason border fence sections were built is that it made good PR for idiots like hunter, and it provided govt funds to construction firms.
the wall is mostly pork. |
Quit embarrassing yourself and read the bill.
It only takes about 15 minutes, you'll find in Off-Topic.
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
" Sure, but not "to busy" to take up Cap and Tax, I bet!!!"
Barry.... back to sleep
Arizona ranks 19th in total taxes and the Republican/conservative dominated legislature is looking at another 1 percent increase in sales tax... its
not just your hatred lefties |
rts, I don't "hate" lefties-----some of my best friends are lefties and we spar verbally constantly. Lately, the Repubs have been drunken-sailor
spenders just like the Dems-------little difference. It's ALL appalling to me. "Sleep" is impossible under the circumstances. (except at night)
Barry
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DENNIS
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What needs to be done here is to redefine the term, "Racist." Right now it's only being used as a weapon.
If everybody here who has been called a racist said, "OK....I'm a racist. Now what?"
I think a lot of folks would be left with nothing to fight with.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Barry
If thats the case then we really didn't need a new law.
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Of course we don't need a new law---------like I said many times, I think they (AZ) wants to get the attention of the Feds., and use this "new law" as
a baseball bat, or "big stick" to try and get the Feds to DO SOMETHING ----NOW!!!! or at least SOON.
Will it work??? that remains to be seen, but SOMETHING has got to be done, and NOW!!!!
If you are an "open border" person, all this dialogue is just smoke and mirrors to create doubt, fear, anger, defuse any progress, and move towards
their end-------Open Borders. Bad idea!!! and it is not going to happen.
Barry
[Edited on 4-29-2010 by Barry A.]
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JESSE
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I submit that Police officers have always had the discretion of stopping you and asking for ID if they can articulate "probable cause" or "reasonable
suspicion" as to why they are doing so, on both sides of the border. If they did not ask about your citizenship up to now, then that was because it
was against local "policy". |
It is one thing for Police to stop you and ask for an ID if they feel theres a posibility of some sort of criminal activity, and a whole different
thing to stop you simply because you might be an illegal.
Why?
Because the determination to stop you, is going to be based solely on the color of your skin. If your a Canadian illegal, unless you commit a crime,
or do something that might be considered suspicious, nobody is going to ask for your papers. But if i am Mexican, and i haven't done anything wrong,
but a cop thinks for whatever reason, that i might be illegal, hes going to ask me.
It is clearly two different treatments for two people based on how they look.
Theres already enough problems with some police officers that don't like Mexicans. I hate to see how this law is going to be enforced by them.
[Edited on 4-29-2010 by JESSE]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
[Of course we don't need a new law---------like I said many times, I think they (AZ) wants to get the attention of the Feds., and use this "new law"
as a baseball bat, or "big stick" to try and get the Feds to DO SOMETHING ----NOW!!!! or at least SOON.
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no, the law is not the baby (zonies) crying to mommy (feds) for attention. the only rxn by feds will be feds over-ruling AZ law, which zonie
republicans would like to drum up white votes for november.
more likely, root of the law is hate mangering by republicans to drum up votes for next election (have you read about the long association of the
primary bill author with hate groups?). republicans found that beating up on immigrants gets white votes. sad but true
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: |
I submit that Police officers have always had the discretion of stopping you and asking for ID if they can articulate "probable cause" or "reasonable
suspicion" as to why they are doing so, on both sides of the border. If they did not ask about your citizenship up to now, then that was because it
was against local "policy". |
It is one thing for Police to stop you and ask for an ID if they feel theres a posibility of some sort of criminal activity, and a whole different
thing to stop you simply because you might be an illegal.
Why?
Because the determination to stop you, is going to be based solely on the color of your skin. If your a Canadian illegal, unless you commit a crime,
or do something that might be considered suspicious, nobody is going to ask for your papers. But if i am Mexican, and i haven't done anything wrong,
but a cop thinks for whatever reason, that i might be illegal, hes going to ask me.
It is clearly two different treatments for two people based on how they look.
Theres already enough problems with some police officers that don't like Mexicans. I hate to see how this law is going to be enforced by them.
[Edited on 4-29-2010 by JESSE] |
Arggggggg-----Jesse, being "illegal" IS criminal activity!!!!!
Barry
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
[Of course we don't need a new law---------like I said many times, I think they (AZ) wants to get the attention of the Feds., and use this "new law"
as a baseball bat, or "big stick" to try and get the Feds to DO SOMETHING ----NOW!!!! or at least SOON.
|
no, the law is not the baby (zonies) crying to mommy (feds) for attention. the only rxn by feds will be feds over-ruling AZ law, which zonie
republicans would like to drum up white votes for november.
more likely, root of the law is hate mangering by republicans to drum up votes for next election (have you read about the long association of the
primary bill author with hate groups?). republicans found that beating up on immigrants gets white votes. sad but true |
Incredible!!!!!! You are truly paranoid!!!! I am getting a head ache just reading your posts. Yes, boooooooo!!!!! we are all racists out to
git you, and those brownskin folks from down south!!!! You got our number, for sure, for sure. The word "dunderhead" comes to mind (love that
word-----havn't had a chance to use it for a long time) 
Barry
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I think they (AZ) wants to get the attention of the Feds., and use this "new law" as a baseball bat, or "big stick" to try and get the Feds to DO
SOMETHING ----NOW!!!! or at least SOON. |
Then Arizona should have passed a tough law that goes after the employers of undocumented workers......from any country. No, they had to pass a law
that goes after a whole class (culture) of people and that's why this new law is discriminatory and will be found unconstitional. The politican said
that you can tell an illegal Mexican by the shoes he wears. Is wearing the wrong kind of shoes probable cause (with my fat legs, I better stop
wearing shorts)? I wonder how that applies to the Al Quaida terrorist who sneaks across the border? What kind of shoes does a terrorist wear? This
law is aimed squarely at Mexicans in Arizona, whether legal or illegal, and that is wrong. We will never see how it is actually enforced because it
will be thrown out before then.
I don't expect to change any minds here, but one has to stand up for what is right and fair.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I think they (AZ) wants to get the attention of the Feds., and use this "new law" as a baseball bat, or "big stick" to try and get the Feds to DO
SOMETHING ----NOW!!!! or at least SOON. |
Then Arizona should have passed a tough law that goes after the employers of undocumented workers......from any country. No, they had to pass a law
that goes after a whole class (culture) of people and that's why this new law is discriminatory and will be found unconstitional. The politican said
that you can tell an illegal Mexican by the shoes he wears. Is wearing the wrong kind of shoes probable cause (with my fat legs, I better stop
wearing shorts)? I wonder how that applies to the Al Quaida terrorist who sneaks across the border? What kind of shoes does a terrorist wear? This
law is aimed squarely at Mexicans in Arizona, whether legal or illegal, and that is wrong. We will never see how it is actually enforced because it
will be thrown out before then.
I don't expect to change any minds here, but one has to stand up for what is right and fair. |
Correct me if wrong, but is there not already a law against the employers??? I agree that it should be aggressively enforced if there is one. You
make an interesting point here, Oxxo, if you are correct. But no, it is NOT a law against "Latinos", only illegals.
Barry
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
we are all racists out to git you, and those brownskin folks from down south!!!! You got our number, for sure, for sure.
Barry |
you said it.
you are a fool to think that politicians don't play you. you fall for it hook, line and sinker, and are never aware of it.
the republicans like to say they are inclusive moderates, but they wink and look other way when their extreme right wingnuts uses hate speech and
racism to drum up votes and $$.
barry, you do not have to defend everything your party does. this is not Mao's china -- the party will not assign you to a re-education camp if you
grow a pair and stand up against the bigots in your party.
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bajalou
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Arggggggg-----Jesse, being "illegal" IS criminal activity!!!!!
Barry |
But Barry, what criteria do you use to decide that someone driving down the road or walking down the street "might" be guilty of being in the US
illegally? What constitutes "Suspicious behavior"? I think that's the crux of a lot of the arguments.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: |
I submit that Police officers have always had the discretion of stopping you and asking for ID if they can articulate "probable cause" or "reasonable
suspicion" as to why they are doing so, on both sides of the border. If they did not ask about your citizenship up to now, then that was because it
was against local "policy". |
It is one thing for Police to stop you and ask for an ID if they feel theres a posibility of some sort of criminal activity, and a whole different
thing to stop you simply because you might be an illegal.
Why?
Because the determination to stop you, is going to be based solely on the color of your skin. If your a Canadian illegal, unless you commit a crime,
or do something that might be considered suspicious, nobody is going to ask for your papers. But if i am Mexican, and i haven't done anything wrong,
but a cop thinks for whatever reason, that i might be illegal, hes going to ask me.
It is clearly two different treatments for two people based on how they look.
Theres already enough problems with some police officers that don't like Mexicans. I hate to see how this law is going to be enforced by them.
[Edited on 4-29-2010 by JESSE] |
Arggggggg-----Jesse, being "illegal" IS criminal activity!!!!!
Barry |
And i don't have a problem if they are targeted, but regular decent law abiding legal mexicans shouldn't be harrased by this law, when whites are not.
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rts551
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Barry... Arizona, as a State, can be discriminatory. Always has been. I live here and it is nothing new. There have been jokes about the behavior
here for years.
Foe fun you should look at some of the other laws they have tried to pass... But hey, we have the OK corral. and..........Phoenix
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Theres already enough problems with some police officers that don't like Mexicans. I hate to see how this law is going to be enforced by them.
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Actually, there are police officers who don't like anybody. Have you been through the border lately?
That's a zone where profiling is a standard tool and not just for race. Why don't we hear a bunch of screaming about that?
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Arggggggg-----Jesse, being "illegal" IS criminal activity!!!!!
Barry |
But Barry, what criteria do you use to decide that someone driving down the road or walking down the street "might" be guilty of being in the US
illegally? What constitutes "Suspicious behavior"? I think that's the crux of a lot of the arguments. |
According to Brian Bibray, a San Diego Republican (50th District) "[Police] will look at the kind of dress you wear, there's different type of
attire, there's different type of...right down to the shoes, right down to the clothes."
I have undertaken a study of the workers in my neighborhood and will report back to you with my findings.
Yesterday I saw an illegal wearing jeans and Tevas,... and I know many of you Nomads wear jeans Tevas (albeit, many of you wear mom jeans)
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