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BajaGringo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Our dilemma is that our ideological choices are channeled through two political parties which command our vote, but do not represent us.
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Amen to that...
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
BajaGringo, The global standard of living? Would be interesting to know exactly what that is.
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How do we avoid it? in the long run we cannot maintain regionally higher standards of living in a global economy. Any regions with a higher standard
of living = higher wages meaning they cannot compete in the global economy = they will sink down to the mean.
The industrialized nations make up less than 5% of the global population. "They" figured that if the economies were boosted for the other 95% by even
a modest amount it would dramatically increase "their" revenue. That is what is behind "outsourcing". It's simple math...
("They" = 1%)
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MitchMan
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TW, listen to yourself. You just said, and I paraphrase, that the reasons why the bottom 60% have only 4% of the wealth are 1) Some people are
mentally or physically unable to make it as they say and they need help.2) others are disconnected from society being a drunk, on drugs, various
criminal behavior etc. 3)Divorce 4)unwed black and hispanic mothers 4)women's low wages 5)lack of proper education
Are you saying here and now that over 180,000,000 people in the USA have only 4% of the nation's wealth because of the above 5 items, 180 million out
of 310 million people are poor because of their own such misbehavior? Are you thereby, by implication, saying that our economic structure has no
blame for that bottom 60% having only 4% of the nation's wealth?
If so, that is one of the most abominable statements thus far, blaming well over half of the USA population for their own plight. Blaming them
because of their deficiencies and their own voluntary decisions. Wow, you are some great American, some patriot you are.
BTW TW, you don't believe that the USA ranks 2nd worst in the world in wealth disparity? Look it up genius. You have just made public record of your
willingness to express blatant ignorance. Look it up! It is an easy find on the internet. Look under GINI coefficient for world wealth. It's a
matter of record... TW... not opinion.
| Quote: | TW
By the way I don't believe the USA ranks second worst in the world for disparity of wealth. I know of a lot of countries including Mexico that are
worse. |
What is it with you right wingers? We recently passed corrupt Mexico on the way to 2nd place. Is this a problem of rank ignorance or voluntary
hubris? Try not relying on your "hunches" and start connecting with some reality and fact. How about a little independent study? Apparantly, that
wouldn't hurt you.
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Cypress
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MitchMan, Independent study? And who would conduct that little farce?
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MitchMan
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Barry, there you go again. More statements, assertions, opinions but not varifiable support. This time you topped yourself with a slew of
rationalizations excusing yourself from real debate:
| Quote: | Barry A.
I can "disagree" with the conconclusions reached because NEVER are all the "FACTS" presented...
...we ALL know, you can quote facts & stats to support any theory that you want, but that does not make the theory necessarily true...
... reasonable people leave room for interpretation of facts & stats...
... the fact that I don't cite "facts" to back up my statements is, to me, a RED HERRING...
...My Gawd, do you really want to wade thru all the 'facts'?? ...
... Again, the most powerful evidence that I have is my personal experience |
Excuses, excuses, excuses. Barry, we're talking about economics and politics, mostly economics as it pertains to circumstances on the ground, in our
country, not how many angels are on the head of a pin or the Shakespearian definition of love. Your excuses might work for that, but not for the
discussion at hand. M
BTW, the stats that I quote are from IRS tax rolls and the US Census bureau, and others. Easily verified.
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MitchMan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
MitchMan, Independent study? And who would conduct that little farce?
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You, Cypress, by you. I used the word "study" more as a verb, not a noun. Sheesh.
[Edited on 10-30-2011 by MitchMan]
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
MitchMan, Independent study? And who would conduct that little farce?
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Well, you had more success than I did. After quite a search, I found a site that showed the USA as about in the middle (58th out 111) of the graph
for wealth distribution.
So I guess we need more instruction, or something. 
Barry
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MitchMan
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Barry, I think that you found the GINI coefficient for income distribution, not wealth distribution. Look for wealth distribution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_distributi...
It's at the bottom right of the page. I believe that Switzerland is ranked first.
[Edited on 10-30-2011 by MitchMan]
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Barry A.
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Spiro had a point after all---------You intellectual lefties all sound like chronic "nabobs of negativity" to me (or something like that).
And to prove your points, you are willing to pull the rest of us down into the morass, it would appear.
Sorry, just lazy I guess---------I am not going there. 
Barry
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MitchMan
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We lefties hit you righties with the facts and better logic and continually prove you righties wrong and it just seems like you are being subjected to
"nabobs of negativity" when we successfully negate your contentions.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Barry, I think that you found the GINI coefficient for income distribution, not wealth distribution. Look for wealth distribution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_distributi...
It's at the bottom right of the page. I believe that Switzerland is ranked first.
[Edited on 10-30-2011 by MitchMan] |
Thanks, Mitch.
On that same chart:
Check out the WEALTH PER ADULT figure!!! Impressive, but looks low to me.
Barry
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Cypress
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MitchMan, Iflyfish and anybody else that subscribes to their line of thought, you are cumbersome. You're just parrotting the leftist view. A trained
bird! 
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
We lefties hit you righties with the facts and better logic and continually prove you righties wrong and it just seems like you are being subjected to
"nabobs of negativity" when we successfully negate your contentions. |
 Facts, maybe--- stats, maybe-------better logic, I think not, and THAT is the key.
"Facts" and "stats" are your stock in trade-------relating all that to the BIG PICTURE, not so much. 
Barry
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MitchMan
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Oh no, Barry, if anything, I tend to look particularly at the big picture.
The stats for per capita income look low because today the nation's wealth is some $55 trilion, that GINI coefficient was reflective of $40 Trillion.
But, let's digress for a moment and look at what this figure of per capita means in the Big Picture. At $55 Trillion in the nation's wealth, the per
capita wealth is some $270,000 today. Now, since the bottom 40% own only 1/4 of 1% of the nation's wealth, that calculates to only about $1,100 per
capita for the bottom 40% of America.
Look at that! $270,000 Vs $1,100 for 40% of the people! 40% of Americans! That is an unhealthy stat. Our economy is unhealthy, Barry. It's at
critical mass. That disparity is not acceptable. And a disparity of that low magnitude is not the fault of the failings of the bottom 40% as TW
would have us think. That is a clear economic system dysfunction.
The other side of this coin is that the top 1% own 40% of the nation's wealth, or $15,700,000 per capita wealth for the top 1%. That is obscene and
an economy killing condition. Look at the facts, that is all I am screaming about. Look at the facts!
[Edited on 10-30-2011 by MitchMan]
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Oh no, Barry, if anything, I tend to look particularly at the big picture.
The stats for per capita income look low because today the nation's wealth is some $55 trilion, that GINI coefficient was reflective of $40 Trillion.
But, let's digress for a moment and look at what this figure of per capita means in the Big Picture. At $55 Trillion in the nation's wealth, the per
capita wealth is some $270,000 today. Now, since the bottom 40% own only 1/4 of 1% of the nation's wealth, that calculates to only about $1,100 per
capita for the bottom 40% of America.
Look at that! $270,000 Vs $1,100 for 40% of the people! 40% of Americans! That is an unhealthy stat. Our economy is unhealthy, Barry. It's at
critical mass. That disparity is not acceptable. And a disparity of that low magnitude is not the fault of the failings of the bottom 40% as TW
would have us think. That is a clear dysfunction. Look at the facts, that is all I am screaming about. Look at the facts! |
Yep, it ain't good.
But, I could go around the circle again (but I won't, thank Gawd) and say that I know how to at least help those dismal figures improve, and it ain't
the way the Administration is taking, so far. Lots of great ideas out there, most of them coming from the businessmen of the Country, and the
enlightened Economists. Let's get on with it. AND, in the process lets reduce spending as a share of GDP, by a LOT!!! Now that may seem like the
"same old thing" to you guys, and it is, but it will work I am convinced. It's hard to say something that is SIMPLE and make it sound new and
jazzy!!! Again I say, watch THE LARRY KUDLOW show on CNBC most every weekday afternoon (4 to 5pm PST) for an overview of the situation over time.
Barry
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Iflyfish
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The ecomomy is showing signs of improvement. This is good news for all of us. However this does not negate the underlying stuctural problems that
exist. This could help unemployment but the wealth disparity continues.
http://www.fxstreet.com/fundamental/market-view/the-trading-...
If the current administration is responsible for the problems is it also responsible for the improvement?
Iflyfish
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
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Fish-------to me the truth is that the Admin./Fed. has really very little it can do to help, other than stay out of the way. But they can hinder
improvement by discouraging business, mostly small business, from moving ahead and hiring again (bla bla bla). This is what they have been doing, and
you know all the reasons why that is true as I KNOW you have been listening. (more blaw, bla, bla)
Most of the Tea Party rally's here in Redding, Ca are small business people saying this exact same thing, many of them my friends.
Barry
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mtgoat666
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Let them eat cake
temporary fix for unemployment and income disparity
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
This could help unemployment but the wealth disparity continues.
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(oops! i forgot the GOP voted to eliminate unemployment funds,... oh, well, feed the cake to the hounds!)
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rts551
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If the government would have stayed out of the way, then Madoff (entrepreneur extraordinaire) would still be working his magic. There is a valid
place for government Barry.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Fish-------to me the truth is that the Admin./Fed. has really very little it can do to help, other than stay out of the way. But they can hinder
improvement by discouraging business, mostly small business, from moving ahead and hiring again (bla bla bla). This is what they have been doing, and
you know all the reasons why that is true as I KNOW you have been listening. (more blaw, bla, bla)
Most of the Tea Party rally's here in Redding, Ca are small business people saying this exact same thing, many of them my friends.
Barry |
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TMW
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Oh no, Barry, if anything, I tend to look particularly at the big picture.
Look at that! $270,000 Vs $1,100 for 40% of the people! 40% of Americans! That is an unhealthy stat. Our economy is unhealthy, Barry. It's at
critical mass. That disparity is not acceptable. And a disparity of that low magnitude is not the fault of the failings of the bottom 40% as TW
would have us think.
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I gave you true facts and you choose to ignore them. Prove anything I said was wrong.
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