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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Yesterday I saw an illegal wearing jeans and Tevas |
How did you establish he was illegal?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by irenemm
My 17 year old granddaughter born in Ensenada and has lived her whole life in Vicente Guerrero sums it up for me. She does have a green card.
If you did not do anything wrong what is the problem. If they ask me for papers and I have them what is the problem. If I don't have them then I guess
I am breaking the law. You pay the price for breaking the law
I like her thinking
Just 17 |
BRAVO! SHE'S A GENIOUS! SAYS IT ALL...
(No matter how many times anyone tells Goat and Jesse that there is no random stopping of Mexican looking people in this bill, they continue to say it
does... So, as long as you believe a lie then you can never be satisfied with the facts: In the process of questioning someone for ANOTHER reason/
like being drunk in public/ they can now ask for documentation IF they don't have a Arizona drivers license or U.S. issued ID.)
It's so easy, even a caveman can do it (figure it out)!  
Close the thread Doug, before any more amigos turn into enemies over this!
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
But Barry, what criteria do you use to decide that someone driving down the road or walking down the street "might" be guilty of being in the US
illegally? What constitutes "Suspicious behavior"? I think that's the crux of a lot of the arguments. |
The criteria isn't as capricious as many here are concerned about. There are legal cases that establish the precednt and therefore the ciriteria.
One of them (aging memor ytime here) is Tarry vs something, because it gave rise to the name "tarry stop". Most law enforcement officers are very
well trained in the criteria.
Some are immediately going to yell, "they will profile anyway". I'm not going to deny that possibility. If it happens, suits will be brought, cops
will be fired and lose their pensions and the law might even be struck down, depending on the court. The Feds, if they can demonstrate standing may
challenge the state's right to implement the law at all. That challenge would most likely have nothing to do with race and could have more far
reaching consequences.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by irenemm
My 17 year old granddaughter born in Ensenada and has lived her whole life in Vicente Guerrero sums it up for me. She does have a green card.
If you did not do anything wrong what is the problem. If they ask me for papers and I have them what is the problem. If I don't have them then I guess
I am breaking the law. You pay the price for breaking the law
I like her thinking
Just 17 |
BRAVO! SHE'S A GENIOUS! SAYS IT ALL...
(No matter how many times anyone tells Goat and Jesse that there is no random stopping of Mexican looking people in this bill, they continue to say it
does... So, as long as you believe a lie then you can never be satisfied with the facts: In the process of questioning someone for ANOTHER reason/
like being drunk in public/ they can now ask for documentation IF they don't have a Arizona drivers license or U.S. issued ID.)
It's so easy, even a caveman can do it (figure it out)!
Close the thread Doug, before any more amigos turn into enemies over this! |
Just because you claim or believe there will be no random stops, it doesn't mean its true. This law was created using very vague words like "lawful
contact", "reasonable doubt", and this was done in purpose. Why didn't they use very clear guidelines and words to explain it?
You claim they can't just stop you randomly, then why didn't they just write that on the bill? and avoid such mess?
You know exactly why, but your ignoring it.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Close the thread Doug, before any more amigos turn into enemies over this! |
No No No...........Please don't close it before Goat has a chance to tell us what acceptable profiling method he used to establish that a man on the
street was illegal. His technique may be what we need to solve this issue.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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too many U2Us asking me to re-post this
here so.....from Off TOPIC newz....
finally AZ does the RIGHT thing!!
be legal or get out.
stop looting our social services. stop sending money out of the country - about $28 BILLION a year.
the denouncers have their facts WRONG and need to read the law - cops cannot profile or make random stops - it's not a gestapo deal - they have to
have probable cause and then can inquire if they have a proper ID which can be a DL or a gov't issued one.
that's it - if you cannot prove reasonable circumstance of citizenship or OTHER legal means of presence like visitors visa etc - you get hauled off!!
the feds refuse to watch our border - AZ takes the upper hand. one rancher murdered is one too many.  
thx good people of Nomadlandia...
we know we are RIGHT in this...
ok, back to the news - Shakira is on!! wow is she smart! she has a news conference here in Phx... did she go to the University of P.O. Box 2000?? but
in Columbia??
oh wait...now she is tearing up...if i was holding a concert ticket i'd be tearing it up!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by irenemm
My 17 year old granddaughter born in Ensenada and has lived her whole life in Vicente Guerrero sums it up for me. She does have a green card.
If you did not do anything wrong what is the problem. If they ask me for papers and I have them what is the problem. If I don't have them then I guess
I am breaking the law. You pay the price for breaking the law
I like her thinking
Just 17 |
BRAVO! SHE'S A GENIOUS! SAYS IT ALL...
(No matter how many times anyone tells Goat and Jesse that there is no random stopping of Mexican looking people in this bill, they continue to say it
does... So, as long as you believe a lie then you can never be satisfied with the facts: In the process of questioning someone for ANOTHER reason/
like being drunk in public/ they can now ask for documentation IF they don't have a Arizona drivers license or U.S. issued ID.)
It's so easy, even a caveman can do it (figure it out)!
Close the thread Doug, before any more amigos turn into enemies over this! |
Just because you claim or believe there will be no random stops, it doesn't mean its true. This law was created using very vague words like "lawful
contact", "reasonable doubt", and this was done in purpose. Why didn't they use very clear guidelines and words to explain it?
You claim they can't just stop you randomly, then why didn't they just write that on the bill? and avoid such mess?
You know exactly why, but your ignoring it. |
It's like a "so what?", Jesse... Police in Mexico and maybe here pull over people that really didn't do something... STILL, IF YOU ARE NOT ILLEGALLY
IN ARIZONA, what is bothering you? If you are not breaking the law, then you have NOTHING to fear... Same story for Mexican army checkpoints or the
border or the police, anywhere.
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Just because you claim or believe there will be no random stops, it doesn't mean its true. This law was created using very vague words like "lawful
contact", "reasonable doubt", and this was done in purpose. Why didn't they use very clear guidelines and words to explain it?
You claim they can't just stop you randomly, then why didn't they just write that on the bill? and avoid such mess?
You know exactly why, but your ignoring it. |
Most of our laws are written this way Jesse. Terms like lawful contact are defined and tested in a body of hundreds if not thousands of cases. Law
Enforcement knows what it means.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Yesterday I saw an illegal wearing jeans and Tevas |
How did you establish he was illegal? |
That's the point!
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by irenemm
My 17 year old granddaughter born in Ensenada and has lived her whole life in Vicente Guerrero sums it up for me. She does have a green card.
If you did not do anything wrong what is the problem. If they ask me for papers and I have them what is the problem. If I don't have them then I guess
I am breaking the law. You pay the price for breaking the law
I like her thinking
Just 17 |
BRAVO! SHE'S A GENIOUS! SAYS IT ALL...
(No matter how many times anyone tells Goat and Jesse that there is no random stopping of Mexican looking people in this bill, they continue to say it
does... So, as long as you believe a lie then you can never be satisfied with the facts: In the process of questioning someone for ANOTHER reason/
like being drunk in public/ they can now ask for documentation IF they don't have a Arizona drivers license or U.S. issued ID.)
It's so easy, even a caveman can do it (figure it out)!
Close the thread Doug, before any more amigos turn into enemies over this! |
Just because you claim or believe there will be no random stops, it doesn't mean its true. This law was created using very vague words like "lawful
contact", "reasonable doubt", and this was done in purpose. Why didn't they use very clear guidelines and words to explain it?
You claim they can't just stop you randomly, then why didn't they just write that on the bill? and avoid such mess?
You know exactly why, but your ignoring it. |
It's like a "so what?", Jesse... Police in Mexico and maybe here pull over people that really didn't do something... STILL, IF YOU ARE NOT ILLEGALLY
IN ARIZONA, what is bothering you? If you are not breaking the law, then you have NOTHING to fear... Same story for Mexican army checkpoints or the
border or the police, anywhere. |
For all of those that support this law, i would love to see your reactions, if Baja created a law, where cops in any legal contact, and with
reasonable suspicion, could ask you for your papers, and if you didn't have them, you would be hold until your immigration status was determined.
Do you sincerely think i am such an idiot to believe the cops would ask for their immigration papers, to the same numbers of Mexicans than whites?
Would you like to live in such state?
You would all be gathering up and treatening with selling your homes, and crippling tourism at the very least.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Yesterday I saw an illegal wearing jeans and Tevas |
How did you establish he was illegal? |
well, he was speaking spanish and wearing a UCLA t-shirt
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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It's what we call a "loaded" question because you have already decided that law is racially motivated.
For some of us it isn't a matter of supporting the law or not supporting the law.
We are interpreting its purpose differently.
I don't think you are an idiot. It is extremely rare when a cop has lawful contact with an individual (assuming it is a non violent apprehension)
that the first words out of the cops mouth aren't "may I see your id?" depending. If a white person produces a valid US drivers' license, it not
likely they will ask for immigration papers. But if white, don't have a drivers license, don't understand English, guarantee you they will ask for
immigration docs. especially if they are white...think about it.
Hey, I get asked for my passport and/or visa all the time here. Don't think a thing about it.
[Edited on 4-30-2010 by oldlady]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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I just read that the Democrats are ready to introduce immigration reform that includes picture SSI cards with biometric information that will be
impossible to forge. I wonder how long it will take the Republicans to come out against it?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
For all of those that support this law, i would love to see your reactions, if Baja created a law, where cops in any legal contact, and with
reasonable suspicion, could ask you for your papers, and if you didn't have them, you would be hold until your immigration status was determined.
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It happened to me. Somebody wanted me out of here. They made a phone call to somebody who knows somebody and I was picked up by the local police. I
had no papers at the time so they held me for three days, turned me over to immigration and I was deported.
The reason used by the head of immigration was that I'm an activist. Since I had no idea what they were talking about, I asked what type of
activist, they said, "I don't know."
I guess it would have been futile to try a discussion of law and probable cause with them, but they were right. I was illegal and I was out the door.
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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How active were you? Enquiring minds.....
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
For all of those that support this law, i would love to see your reactions, if Baja created a law, where cops in any legal contact, and with
reasonable suspicion, could ask you for your papers, and if you didn't have them, you would be hold until your immigration status was determined.
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It happened to me. Somebody wanted me out of here. They made a phone call to somebody who knows somebody and I was picked up by the local police. I
had no papers at the time so they held me for three days, turned me over to immigration and I was deported.
The reason used by the head of immigration was that I'm an activist. Since I had no idea what they were talking about, I asked what type of
activist, they said, "I don't know."
I guess it would have been futile to try a discussion of law and probable cause with them, but they were right. I was illegal and I was out the door.
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Someone reported you, i don't have a problem with someone reporting an illegal Mexican in Arizona. A whole different thing would be if a local cop
arrested you out of "reasonable doubt" that you where here illegally, i would not be in support of such a thing down here.
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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Nah....this "reasonable suspicion" thing. like any law, isn't perfect. Having civilians reporting people soley because they are illegal, or an
activist and illegal, isn't the direction any one (exceot the real nut cases) wants to go in.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Someone reported you, i don't have a problem with someone reporting an illegal Mexican in Arizona. |
That's funny. Report it to whom?
Jesse...talking with you on this issue is like talking to the wall. Your mind is made up, even in the face of strong arguement.
Boycott Arizona. I couldn't care less.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Someone reported you, i don't have a problem with someone reporting an illegal Mexican in Arizona. |
That's funny. Report it to whom?
Jesse...talking with you on this issue is like talking to the wall. Your mind is made up, even in the face of strong arguement.
Boycott Arizona. I couldn't care less. |
I read nothing strong about your argument.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
I read nothing strong about your argument. |
I wasn't arguing.....just telling a story about something you said wouldn't happen.
Others here have presented point after point that you and others in your camp won't acknowledge. That's the problem with internet debate. It turns
blind stupidity into a technique.
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