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Cypress
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At one time I seriously considered buying(whatever that means?) property down in Baja. Tried to, but at that time, '07-'08, it was a sellers market.
Couldn't afford what they were asking. Thank you Jesus!!!
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MitchMan
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Cypress, it's a buyer's market now, especially for the properties in Mexican neighborhoods. You just have to look around, take your time, ask a lot
of people (especially locals) if they know of any places for sale, and you will find unbelievable deals. Going to a fancy shmancy real estate office
and it will be a lot harder to find a really good deal. You'll get shown a bunch of homes at "market price" which is quite a bit higher than what you
could find on your own.
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Cypress
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Mitchman, Thanks for the info. If the fishing hadn't gone to hell I'd still be down there.
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MitchMan
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With regard to fishing, I wonder if there are any safe, accessible places anywhere in Baja Sur to buy a low costing 600 -1000 sq ft casita on the
beach (Sea of Cortez side) where it is easy to beach launch a small boat and the fishing is great for most of the year. I have heard good things
about Los Barriles
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grizzlyfsh95
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
With regard to fishing, I wonder if there are any safe, accessible places anywhere in Baja Sur to buy a low costing 600 -1000 sq ft casita on the
beach (Sea of Cortez side) where it is easy to beach launch a small boat and the fishing is great for most of the year. I have heard good things
about Los Barriles |
Try Cardinale (N. of Barriles)
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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drarroyo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95
| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
With regard to fishing, I wonder if there are any safe, accessible places anywhere in Baja Sur to buy a low costing 600 -1000 sq ft casita on the
beach (Sea of Cortez side) where it is easy to beach launch a small boat and the fishing is great for most of the year. I have heard good things
about Los Barriles |
Try Cardinale (N. of Barriles) |
El Cardonal (sp) is still rather pricey (proximity to Los Barilles), so you have plenty of time to research if it's an appropriate locale, and then by
the time you're ready to commit.... prices will be lower. (ie it's not going UP any time soon. Good time to be looking IMHO)
suerte
[Edited on 4-9-2011 by drarroyo]
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elgatoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
I have been receiving a lot of questions, concerning La Puerta del Mar, in Rosarito, actually in Km. 54-55 Tijuana to Ensenada old road.
[Edited on 4-8-2011 by ramuma53] |
Do you know if the other property at K55 aka Campo Lopez,Punta Mesqutito, have any issues other then the ugly battle between Machado and Negrete
families over management?
Gracias.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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ramuma53
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MitchMan
If a Mexican bought from an Ejido, that does not make the ejido legal, the fact is that, almost all of the Baja´s Ejidos, have a virtual execution and
that is a problem that has not been corrected and that mean that they have no physical land gave to them in a formal way and that mean, they were not
able to sell in a legal way to a Mexican or American.
The fact that you have title insurance and a fideicomiso, only mean that a bank is the one holding the title, with any defect it may have and the
Title insurance, only say that they didn´t find any title problems, but it doesn’t mean, that no title defects exist, only that their attorneys didn’t
find any.
The fact that a title defect exist, does not mean automatic problems, for the actual owner; problems arise when legal problems exist in court, between
two people claiming to be the owners.
If you are not being contested in court, my advice is: Not to do anything, because the Ejido sooner or later, will have to correct that problem and
yours at the same time, without your direct action.
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ramuma53
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Elgatoloco
Do you know if the other property at K55 aka Campo Lopez,Punta Mesqutito, have any issues other then the ugly battle between Machado and Negrete
families over management?
Campo Lopez, it is a fact, belong to National Land property, it was legally notified in 1992 to Mr. Aguilar, the then possessor, but he never bought
it from the Nation and that mean, it is unclaimed National Property, ready to be sold to the first Mexican who ask for it.
Punta Mezquite is another problem.
Punta Mezquite and La Puerta del Mar, are under the Rosendo Victorio Victorio 97 Has. National Land title, that also covers the Venustiano Carranza
town on the other side of the road.
The title was issued in 1994 for 97 Has. But later, Banamex thorough an amparo, voided the title on 2 Has. But the 95 Has. Left, have not been titled
again to Rosendo Victorio, but the title as I know, will come issued out again, in a few months, on the name of Rosendo Victorio, that is unavoidable.
The 2 Has. Voided by Banamex, are the extreme North West area between the road and the Federal Zone, those 2 Has. Are already covered by houses, built
by Medio Camino and sold to American buyers.
Those 2 Has. are being subjected, to an administrative trial, between Banamex and Inmobiliaria Real de Mexico, that belong to Miguel Del Rio Torres, a
Mexico city, casino chain owner and I will bet for Miguel Del Rio, because he formally bought from Rosendo Victorio Victorio, the national land title
holder.
On La Puerta del Mar, just run if you can, that will be the second Punta Banda exactly alike problem. If you bought, ask for your money back or claim
your fideicomiso back or claim your title insurance back, because that land will be returned to Rosendo Victorio and from them to Inmobiliaria Real de
Mexico S.A. de C.V.
The actual La Puerta del mar developers, the lagos group, will be happy if they manage to stay out of jail, because they built the development on the
voided title land, knowing that the title would be re issued in the future and that mean, they sold houses on National Land that was already sold by
the Nation to Rosendo Victorio and that is a clear and present Federal offense.
If there are hot points, in Rosarito coastal strip. This would be the hottest, followed nearly by Popotla, Playa Encantada (La Joya del Mar) and all
the Torres Chavert developments. On these hot points, just try to recover as much money as you can, as soon as you can.
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MitchMan
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Thank you, ramuma53. Very, very helpful. The property in question was originally owned by the neighbor who had it for generations. He sold it to a
Mexican citizen about 12 years ago who sold it to another Mexican citizen, and then sold it to the American several years ago. There has never been
any contesting by anyone, not even the original owner/neighbor. From all appearances, the seller to the American is an unsophisticated housewife
recently divorced who just wanted to get out from under the property, left it vacant for 2 years, and just wanted the money so that she could move
back to the mainland, which she did. She was so eager to sell that she agreed to lower the price quite a bit below market value.
The American owner has read the posts in this thread and I think he wants to pursue if there is a way to pay the government to get a National Land
Title just to be safe.
Thank you, ramuma53.
[Edited on 4-9-2011 by MitchMan]
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ramuma53
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MitchMan
I think the best way in that situation, is to just wait and do nothing, because the problem comes from an Ejido defect and the Ejido will have to
correct that problem in the future or may never correct it, but if they dont do it, they are open to problems, in other words, people who know
(mainland big developers) can just take any land they want from them as long as they have defects and if this happen, your friend may be on the way,
but if this doesent happen, nothing will happen.
In Mulege, Carlos Slim, just played arround with the Ejido owning Santispak and when the ejido, backed by the Baja Governor refused to sell to them,
he just got the place paying even less, trough a Spanish company that ended up being his.
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ramuma53
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bajaengBajaeng
You just hit the main problem being issued here; THE PROFESSIONALS THAT SUPPOSE TO BE YOUR LINE OF DEFENSE ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOB AND INDUCE YOU TO
MAKE THE MISTAKE.
The law orders, that the Public Notary, the Cadastral officer and the Public Registry official, must check with the National Agrarian Registry, to see
if the property, have any problems (like being National land or an Ejido) and check with the local public registry (it must check, but Baja registry
does not), but in Baja, they just do not do it and refuse to do it.
They argue that they must blindly trust another public notary´s work, but the fact is, that old Baja public notaries, just didn´t act legally and
their work cannot be taken as legal true, but since public notaries in Baja, are family businesses, inheritable to sons, they are protecting their old
relatives actions.
That is why, I advise you to do it yourself and do not accept any excuse, just know the law and see that it is obeyed yourself in your own benefit.
On this case, it is clear that the advice, some people gave, about buying where powerful Mexicans buy, is not a good advice, Grupo Lagos who built
Puerta del Mar, is one of the biggest developers in Baja, they are related to Ismael Yagues Ames, also one of the wealthiest Mexicans in Baja, that
have been acquiring big chunks of land in Baja, by the very illegal way of buying the Real Estate rights, that were supposedly owned by the 1880s
American Surveyor companies and trying to put them on his name, in the public registry and I mean 100s of 1000s of Has. So much that they stopped
him, but he managed to do it for a while, causing that the Tijuana public registry is no longer trustable.
Ismael Yagues perfectly know, about the national property issue, because one of his main technical people, Rolando Salazar, worked for the national
land office as a supervisor for the National land commission in 1992.
In this case, since the National land office, formally sold to Rosendo Victorio Victorio, that 97 Has. Land lot, there is absolutely no way, the title
will not be re issued, because the Banamex amparo voided it, only for 2 Has. Being a 97 Has. Title, and the balance, returned to him. La Puerta del
Mar, was built after the problems and the title was voided; this is an absolute irresponsibility by the developer and the worst advocate, is the
professional, you sent to find the title defects.
When a title is voided, it cease to have legal effects and that mean, that, if the land was formally sold by the Federal Government, as National
Property, it just returned to being National Property, not acquirable by any other mean and everyone in Tijuana, Rosarito Ensenada, knows about the
problems Rosendo Victorio had with the developers, who put him in jail several times, using their influence with the Estate Governor, who used the
police as their personal white guard, because the whole Venustiano Carranza town went to the Tijuana streets to claim for Rosendo to be liberated.
Rosendo Victorio family are as poor as any Mexican labor worker can be, but he will prevail, because Mexico is a laws Nation, the developers trying to
steal his land, may delay the process, but they cannot stop it and American buyers should not be the ones to loose, because that is the developer´s
intention and way to press the government, in to leave things as they are, let me do it, or there will be another Punta Banda.
That have not worked for 20 years and the dam is about to break, please don’t be in the way, so later you do not blame Mexico.
Greedy people exist all over the world, only in Mexico they are able to get away with it for a little while longer.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaeng
ramuma53:
Thank you for sharing this very valuable information about the TJ-Ens stretch along the coast. It is quite an eye opener and now I know why one real
estate office advised us to rent due to all the many possible uncertainties. |
A real estate office is now advising people to rent, not buy? That's interesting and likely the next step to getting this land title problem solved
for Rosarito. The internet will not allow the corrupt to maintain the status quo, or put their genie back in the bottle. Most owners now do their
real estate research on the web and the Realtors are all aware of these problems because their clients are now asking about them. For Rosarito to
move forward and grow the land title problems needs to be solved sooner, rather than later. Now is the time. If not, when the economy and real
estate market does start to rebound the buyers will go elsewhere and Rosarito will wonder what happened...
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Wooosh
Right on the money
The market will rebound in 2 years and that will be a sellers market because of all the Baby boomers that have not bought, in this period and that
will then try to buy at the same time as the freshly comeing baby Boomers.
Then people will not care that much about the problems and that mean that people must know now and press the developers to correct the problems or in
two years, they would have won and just pass the developments with problems and all to the buyers.
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elgatoloco
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Ok. So it sounds like K55/Campo Lopez which is different then K55/Puerta Del Mar has no Banamex issues.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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ramuma53
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elgatoloco
Yes you are right, Campo Lopez has no Banamex issues, but it is National land.
As National Land, nobody should be chargingn for rent or anything, because then, they are renting Federal property and commiting a federal felony.
In my opinion, La Puerta del Mar has a clear way of correcting the problem, because they can buy from Rosendo Victorio, but Campo Lopez has to buy
from the Nation and at this time, nobody has claimed that land.
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elgatoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
elgatoloco
Yes you are right, Campo Lopez has no Banamex issues, but it is National land.
As National Land, nobody should be chargingn for rent or anything, because then, they are renting Federal property and commiting a federal felony.
In my opinion, La Puerta del Mar has a clear way of correcting the problem, because they can buy from Rosendo Victorio, but Campo Lopez has to buy
from the Nation and at this time, nobody has claimed that land. |
There are mexican nationals who own their homes and the land they are on in that campo. The rest of the gringos "own" their homes and pay rent for the
land to the Machado and Negrete (by way of marriage to a Machado) clans. The two clans have a longtime argument and do not get along, from what I
hear.
Crappy beach and lousy polluted surf breaks make on eownder why anyone would want to be there anyway? 
Thank you for the info.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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ramuma53
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elgatoloco
You say that they own, but they absolutely does not OWN that land, they are just irregular possessors of National Land, in other words, just squatters
in national land.
They cannot give away any right to those lands, they cannot rent it or lease it or anything without a formal Federal permission, any other way it is a
Federal Offense.
Remember that the Machado sold whatever they had in 1915 to a foreign owned company and since then they are just irregular possessors, without any
right to the property.
To use or possess any national land, you need a permit issued by the National land office, any other way, it is a Federal felony.
I say this without even a doubt, because I know that Mr. Aguilar was formally notified about the National Land property in 1992.
Many people get induced to think that to have an inscription on the Public Registry, mean that Property is assured, but let me tell you, that the
Public Registries, are only declaratory, and it mean, that it is only to inform people about a fact, it absolutely does not prove the property right,
it only publicly inform of of a fact, true or false, but it does not prove it in any way.
That means that having a right in the Tijuana, Rosarito and Ensenada Public Registries books, does not prove they are the owners, and in this case, it
is not true what the Public Registries inform.
Why, because the Local Public registries have an obligation to check and be coordinated with the national Public registries, being these: National
Agrarian Registry (RAN), National Agrarian Cadastral office, National Property Public Registry and can say, that those National Registries do not
check or are coordinated with the local public registries and since they are not legally coordinated as the law order, the public notaries and local
public officials do not check with them as the law orders.
That is the Baja California problem, the local public registries, show different data, than the national Registries, but the National Registries are
superior authorities to the local Registries and in a legal consequence, the true right is what exist in the National Registries and in this case in
the National Registries, the National Property exist on those registries while in the local Registries, you can find the Machado rights, in a
contradiction to themselves that have also the Machado sale to the Foreign Company in 1915.
Yes, I know what you are going to say, that it is an abominable official mess and you are right, but the Developers press the government, in to not
correcting anything and they just let them exist that way in an absolute irresponsibility that nobody want to accept or make public.
If the land rights basis were national titles, issued according to the law, time would have corrected the problem, but being National Lands, time does
not have any effect and the problem just exist until someone with the information want to take advantage of it.
Let me give an hypothetical example:
At this time, Campo Lopez is unclaimed National Land, that is being occupied by irregular squatters and I do not care how they want to justify that
possession or for how long the possession time.
If any person, being a Mexican entity (physical or company) go to the national land office and offer to buy Campo Lopez, they will see that Mr.
Aguilar was notified in 1992 and did not exercised his right to buy, then the first one who want to buy it, will be next in line and they will just
sell it to him.
Then you will have a true owner that does not have the physical possession, but that is not that difficult, because you are buying from the Federal
Government and the SRA will have an obligation to give you the physical possession and since they will go and find squatters, they will order an
investigation to the Federal Police to see why are those squatters there.
The Federal Police will just go and take the people they find there to Mexico city, like criminals and at their offices in front of the Revolution
monument in Mexico city, they will ask them to show the permit issued by the national Land office to use Federal Property, since nobody have one of
those, they will be in deep Federal problems that will land them in a Federal penitentiary until they give the possession away to the National land
office and then derve prision for as much time as the judge say.
The SRA will just give to the legal buyer the land free of any problem.
This is something that the Developers do not want anybody to know, but it has been happening time and time again, the last I know is for Animale disco
in Rosarito Beach downtown.
In other words, if the hard headed developers, do not correct the National land issue, they are open for entrepreneurs that use the law, to take away
the land they want and when that happen, they cry like children, saying that they were robed and that they have a moral right to own that land, in
other words, they are waiting for some public official, to just come and give away that land for free to them, but in 20 years that have not happened,
because public officials are not allowed by law, to do it for free, the minimum price allowed by law, is the cadastral value and they do not want to
pay it.
We have some hard headed people, that want to get land for free to sell it to Americans at US$3500.00 dlls./m2 built; the right way to do it, would be
for them to pay US$100.00 to the lawful owner (The Nation) and then sell with the law on their side at US$3500.00 but they don’t want to pay.
Well, then let Mainland entrepreneurs, come and take away their built already developments and see if when that has happened several times, the other
200 will open their hard head a little or better said, their hard wallet.
This will be a mega business for someone, the mainland developers or the now hard headed local developers; the only difference, is that the local
developers want the land for free and the American buyer to hold the risk forever.
I would go for the mainland developers.
[Edited on 4-13-2011 by ramuma53]
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaeng
one thing I am wondering is if there are all these potential land issues due to "National Title", then why does the federal govt ignore places that
build and live or do illegal transactions on land not given national title? it seems they should have the equivalent of "Bureau of Land Management"
like the US has. |
and follow the model of the California Coastal Commission- nothing over 30 feet within a mile of the coast.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Cypress
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Baja real estate advice? Go for it! You'll have some interesting stories and it'll probably more fun than playing the slot machines at some funky old
casino.
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