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JDCanuck
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I am sure there will continue to be a flooded market of used BEVs as the newest models continue to improve in range or charging options. This should
allow you to buy a heavily discounted and mildly used EV much cheaper than at present that you can charge cheaply and slowly at home and use for
shorter trips up to 200 miles only.
As long as we charge only at home, our costs to charge and time to charge are not an issue to deter us. At 180 km per week average so far we can
recharge once per week overnite on only 120v 12 amps which everyone should have at home. Just don't plan on taking any longer trips where you have to
risk public charging station problems.
I think Sayulita to PV is well within the range of most BEV's sold now for instance.
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by JDCanuck]
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surabi
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Yes, I wouldn't be concerned about range. I don't go on road trips- I just run into town a couple times a week and make a PV trip an average of once
every 3 weeks.
What I would be concerned about if I bought a used EV in Mexico is repair if something went wrong. My friend in Canada had something go wrong with her
Hyundai Kona, I don't remember the issue, but it necessitated it being in the shop for a week. She had bought it new, and paid for a good extended
warranty, so the repair didn't cost her anything and they gave her a loaner car.
But how many EV mechanics are there in Mexico? And if it's anything like getting repairs done on gas-powered cars, taking it to a dealership, if it
isn't under warranty, is way more expensive than a good backyard mechanic.
When I bought my previous car, a Honda CRV, from a friend here in Mexico when she was moving back to Canada, she gave me a good deal, because the
suspension needed work. She said she had taken it to the Honda dealer in PV, where they said it needed new shocks, to the tune of $800US.
My Mexican mechanic checked it out, said there was nothing wrong with the shocks- it needed a new boot. He did that, it fixed the problem, and only
cost a few hundred pesos. :-)
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by surabi]
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JDCanuck
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So....it pays in this case not to be the first on the block to embrace new tech, but wait until the locals are familiar with the technology. Its not
the drive trains that are overly done, its all the keyless entry and immobilizers, automatic lighting systems, emergency braking, lane change
corrections and facial recognition, etc. that will be causing the majority of problems.
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JDCanuck
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I think the more important issue as it relates to BEV's in Baja is the proportion of grid power that is NOT provided with high CO2 and SO3 producing
fossil fuels. The articles I have accessed indicate only under 21% is from renewable sources in BC and in BCS the majority of additional power demand
was being supplied by Portable Diesel Generators.
At present, until the grid is supplied by a far higher percentage of renewables, it might be a better investment to install solar panels with the goal
of ultimately powering your EV's from them.
My combined installed costs for solar including 32kwh of LiFePO4 storage batteries in BCS was more than twice yours for a 3000sq ft home, so I am
assuming you have a grid tied system while I had fully off grid independent of CFE power and a somewhat larger home with designed excess to power a
limited amount of EV charging. My max output was a bit over 55kwh per day averaged throughout the year, over 60kwh per day during the hottest months.
There was enough excess unused solar power still available to provide about 70 miles of EV driving daily by either a BEV or a hybrid.
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by JDCanuck]
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oxxo
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You make some good points and are definitely on the right path Canuckistani (don't take the name personally, this is a self-deprecating joke shared
with me by my very conservative Canadian friends).
Regardless of some minor difference in our viewpoints, I sincerely applaud your accomplishments!
Live long and prosper.
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surabi
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Quote: Originally posted by oxxo  |
A common theme I read here is, "BEV's don't make economic sense to me personally." I agree with you. The state of the current BEV/Solar Panel
technology does not make sense as far as IMMEDIATE payout.
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by oxxo] |
While my friend in Canada with the Hyundai BEV doesn't have solar and charges o'nite on her grid electric, she has seen a positive immediate economic
advantage.
She bought the vehicle new, and it certainly was not cheap, so of course she didn't pay for it in cash, she has monthly payments.
But those monthly payments are around the same as what she worked out that she is saving in $ by not filling her vehicle with gas. For working folks
who commute to work, as she does (a 45 minute drive each way, 5 days a week), and who would otherwise spend a lot on gas, the EV makes almost
immediate personal economic sense, apart from wanting to be part of the pollution solution rather than adding to the problem.
There were also several thousand $ in govt. rebates for switching to EV that she took advantage of.
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JDCanuck
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I agree in Canada with the very high percentage of renewables, mainly hydro, it makes sense to drive an EV. The trick is making it pay you back
economically while reducing your carbon footprint.
Its a lot tougher in Baja.
We looked at buying an EV a few years back in Canada for CAD 53000 after rebates. Or...we could invest the same 53000 in a solar system in Baja. We
chose the latter as the payback was far higher in reducing the carbon footprint and at the same time would eventually pay for itself. Seems like a lot
of money to pay, but the lot was far cheaper as it was understood you would have to supply solar power than an equivalent sized lot with CFE access
would have cost.
For people currently paying the lowest tier for CFE power in Mexico it will be very hard to justify solar unless their power demands push them up to
the higher priced tier, or they decide it is justified as a carbon free power source to charge an EV. At a minimum, I think a 3kw solar system with
inversion to 120v at 12 amps would be needed to power an EV for shorter trips of 40-50 miles per day.
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by JDCanuck]
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RFClark
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The numbers are somewhat confusing but running EVs an PHEVs from solar is far better than running them from Thermal generating stations.
This site calculates both upstream and tailpipe emissions for EVs and PHEVs
Average gas car emissions in California are 400g/mi
2022 Kia Niro PHEV or EV on grid electricity 83g/mi even less with solar
electricity
22g/KWH is the estimated total emissions for solar panels which works out to 6g/mi when the electricity is used in a car.
The total upstream emissions from thermal natural gas fired generating plants is 420-480g/KWH obviously this is not included in the EV/PHEV per mile
numbers.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2 Site for calculations
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mtgoat666
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You guys obsess over energy use of automobiles, but are probably missing the bigger picture…
Car transport is just one aspect of your personal energy consumption.
***
How much energy powers a good life? Less than you're using, says a new report
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/12/1092045712/how-much-energy-po...
How much energy does it take to have a good and healthy life? A new Stanford University study has found that the answer is far less than the average
American is using.
Comparing energy use and quality of life across 140 countries, researchers found that the magic number is 75 gigajoules a year, or less. For context,
one gigajoule of energy is equal to about 8 gallons of gasoline.
Americans use 284 gigajoules a year per capita, nearly four times that much energy, according to the new research.
"That suggests to me that we could nudge energy use downwards in a bunch of hyper-consuming countries and not just make a more equitable world, but
perhaps make ourselves healthier and happier," said lead author and professor of earth system science Rob Jackson.
***
The U.S. has long used more energy for air conditioning than all other nations combined. USA uses more electricity for cooling than the
entire continent of Africa, home to a billion people, consumes for all purposes..
https://e360.yale.edu/features/cooling_a_warming_planet_a_gl...
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
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I try to conserve various types of energy as much as possible. It's not just the cost involved, but not wasting resources.
For instance, I only light my propane hot water tank 20 minutes before I am going to take a shower. I don't even leave the pilot light burning. Of
course this isn't as convenient as just leaving it on all the time, but it only takes about 3 minutes to light it. There's no reason to have a tank of
super hot water sitting there, constantly reheating when the temperature drops, for hours a day and overnight when I don't need hot water.
And because my water is gravity fed from a big black tinako on the roof, the water is never really cold, and in the summer, it's almost warmer than
you want it. The hot water tank basically never gets lit from June until November.
I also don't leave electric consuming things on when I am not using them, like my computer. My electronics, like the TV and DVD player are plugged in
to a power bar, which gets unplugged when I am not using those things. So there are no devices or appliances which have those little red lights or
clocks on them which are on all the time.
I do have to leave fans on in the summer to keep the air moving so things don't get funky with the rain and high humidity. But they are turned down to
low unless I am in the room.
Most Americans (and probably Canadians) don't really think about this stuff or bother to try to conserve energy, or even care. Just like not wanting
an EV because you might have to spend half an hour at a charging station, "convenience" seems to be super important and if it continues to be more
important to people than conserving resources and cutting down on pollution, the state of the planet will not get better. When I've pointed out to
friends and family that all those little red lights on their appliances and devices are sucking electricity for no good reason, the reply is usually,
"Yeah, but it's only a tiny bit." But tiny bits add up, especially when everyone is using "only a tiny bit".
If I just left my hot water tank turned on all the time, not only is it a waste of propane, it means I would have to get propane deliveries more
often, so the delivery truck is also using more gas or diesel fuel.
I have a friend who is the impatient and not detail-oriented type. She was staying with me and was making a fruit salad one day. She was peeling the
mangoes in a way that was leaving a good deal of the flesh on the skin. I said, "Whoa- you're cutting off half the mango with the skin and throwing it
in the compost". Her irritated response was "I'll buy more mangoes, okay?"
I explained that that wasn't the issue for me when it comes to wasting food- it was that that mango was grown, picked, packed, shipped, unpacked and
put out on the store shelf, only for her to throw half of it in the compost, because she couldn't be bothered to peel it properly.
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by surabi]
[Edited on 6-9-2024 by surabi]
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
I have a friend who is the impatient and not detail-oriented type. She was staying with me and was making a fruit salad one day. She was peeling the
mangoes in a way that was leaving a good deal of the flesh on the skin. I said, "Whoa- you're cutting off half the mango with the skin and throwing it
in the compost". Her irritated response was "I'll buy more mangoes, okay?"
I explained that that wasn't the issue for me when it comes to wasting food- it was that that mango was grown, picked, packed, shipped, unpacked and
put out on the store shelf, only for her to throw half of it in the compost, because she couldn't be bothered to peel it properly.
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Oh, @ Surabi, I hope you didn't lose a friend because of that! Friends are too valuable to lose over a simple misunderstanding. The next time she
comes over, you peel the mangoes and let her de-thorn the nopales! 
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oxxo
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A long, long time ago, I spent two years on a remote island, 1 mile wide x 3 miles long, in the middle of the ocean. I existed on zero energy other
than building a fire to cook. If I didn't spear any edible fish that day, it was just pineapples and bananas to eat. I lived in a simple thatched
hut, 10' x 20'. Since I lived at the edge of the lagoon, I even survived a tornado waterspout that tore through my yard in the middle of the night.
Did I have a "good and healthy life?" Absolutely, yes I did, but I also learned that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life that way!!! Boondocking in the Baja desert in a camper pickup would be a luxurious
lifestyle compared to what I endured!
So I enjoy all the comforts and convenience of life today but realize that it does cost me money to live a life with a manageable and reasonable
minimized carbon footprint.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo |
Oh, @ Surabi, I hope you didn't lose a friend because of that! Friends are too valuable to lose over a simple misunderstanding. The next time she
comes over, you peel the mangoes and let her de-thorn the nopales!
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I actually haven't talked to her in several years, but not because we had a falling out, we just kind of lost touch. We both acknowledged that we were
like sisters who fight a lot, but love each other and then kiss and make up.
I once stayed with her at her home in Denver and worked for her in her gardening business for a month. We irritated the hell out of each other on the
job, because we do things totally differently. At the end of the day, we'd come home, shower, fix ourselves a c-cktail and have a great evening
yakking, making dinner, and playing scrabble.
There's friends you can do almost anything with and have a good time. And others you can't live or work with, but nonetheless enjoy each other's
company.
[Edited on 6-10-2024 by surabi]
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JDCanuck
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Goat: The remedy to increasingly hot temps to avoid heat related deaths is unfortunately more AC which will in turn drive temps even higher. Or...you
can move to a colder place like Canada or Alaska and delay the need for AC. Our provincial government is now handing out free AC units to try to keep
the hot season deaths down.
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RFClark
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Most of those who would make you “Live like a refugee” don’t do it themselves!
If you have solar the sun shines whether you use it or not!!If you have a well and recycle grey water and AC condensate you probably return most of
the water back to the water table. In our area the un-pumped water flows back into the sea and is lost.
The list goes on and on! It’s exactly like being told to “eat all your vegetables because there are children who are starving”!
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JDCanuck
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RFClark: Thanks for that site, very informative. Unfortunately, it did not accept the Baja area code i tried to enter to get an idea of local to Baja
benefits
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RFClark
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JD,
Since most electricity in BCS is generated from dirty oil 580g/KWH is probably a better number for the total upstream cost.
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surabi
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??? Water that flows into the ocean isn't "lost". Water evaporates from the sea, creates clouds and rain, which then replenishes the water table.
That's like grade school science.
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
??? Water that flows into the ocean isn't "lost". Water evaporates from the sea, creates clouds and rain, which then replenishes the water table.
That's like grade school science. |
I believe he understands that concept. The funny thing is you fear mongers were telling everyone to not brush teeth or take long showers because of
wasting water. Ludicrous indeed.
Back on topic, Solar doesnt work in a large number of areas that are outside of the desert environment.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
??? Water that flows into the ocean isn't "lost". Water evaporates from the sea, creates clouds and rain, which then replenishes the water table.
That's like grade school science. |
You are both correct, I understand both of your points and agree with them. I think the disagreement between you two is a matter of semantics.
Nothing to get worked up over.
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