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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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how would you like...
to reel this up from the ocean floor.....wouldnt that be exciting...nah,i'll take fish any day over tofu
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Is using my dogs
for furniture considered sadistic?
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
As a fisherman, however, you don't leave the docks in the morning with the goal to hurt something. Even, when the fish is on the line I never think
about hurting it. That's not my intention.
It's a matter of degree. One is an aberration, a mental illness. The other is normal. Yes, it's normal to enjoy the hunt.
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I think you misunderstand. I said "sport fishing is sadistic" not "sport fishermen are sadistic".
I don't have any problems with the catching part, just releasing.
If you catch it, kill it and eat it or give it to someone who will.
Ever watch bass fishing on TV?
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. |
I don't have a problem with that, either. (As long as it's my dog doing the eating.)
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Although, I have friends whom I love and respect dearly that do it, I don't for the life of me understand the sport of fishing. I understand fishing
to get something to eat, I love to eat fish. I even use to fleete fish for a living. I just don't get the catch and throw back angle of it. Still,
like I said, doesn't mean I hold people that do it in any less esteem.
[Edited on 6-11-2005 by Eli]
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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I agree with Goneto & Dave too
I never quite understood the philosophy of catch & release.
On one hand the mighty fisherman may catch twenty fish only deciding to keep one nice one, thus saving lives, culling the herd if it were...
On the other hand he is a complete butthead for tramatizing 19 hapless fish. Why? Were they undersized? Were they too small for his ego? Does he feel
like a conservationist because he can say he only kept one and released the rest.
I may be breaking the law but if the trout etc. is gut-hooked I keep em regardless of size. I also take care to release any fish lip caught that is
not a target fish(fish to eat). I believe most released fresh water fish survive the practice. Ocean fish not as often due to depths and other trauma
inducing retrieving. Bill fish, sailfish, marine mammals and all sharks should not be targeted/taken at all. This may seem a radical approach but
these Apex predators are so marginal in (many)species numbers that it may take decades to stabilize some species if takes were forbidden today.
I feel I don't pressure the sea much the way I Fish(or dive). I am satisfied to eat damn near anything I land that's edible. Sometimes it doesn't
take long to get a fish or two and call it a day. Other times I get to enjoy the day trying, but not connecting. Oh, boo hoo. Either way it makes my
day.
It's well known that some large game fish generate large quantities of lactic acid while being traumatized during landing(s). This can induce"shock"
in the fish. The other obvious problem with C&R is the animals depleted O2 levels. This is evident and sometimes the animal needs help (from his
captor) regaining strength enough to swim off. I have seen them swim off too. Saw them bellyup hours later.
Sportfishing for C&R makes little sense to me. Thank god they don't have vocal chords
We still have to remember WHO is doing the most the damage.
Gill-netters and long-liners who hunt blindly and indiscriminately. A goverment whose enforcement uses horse-blinders, and a general "We could give a
f***" attitude by many on all sides of the fence.. Much like we've seen in other places/scenarios where we grew up. Probably why some of us care more
than others.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gonetobaja
I thought I liked to spearfish because of the time I spent in the ocean and the experience, not to mention the food.
Now I find out its just because Im horny?
Well sounds like a good reason to me , Im leavin tomorrow!!
Its ok to love to fish, just dont "love" the fish.
GTB
"sex crazed fish killer....":moon: |
That hilarious GTB, but basically right as evolutionists see it.
You're total net worth in the end is the size of the egg you lay. The bigger the egg, the greater your contribution.
The only value to that experience you had in second grade pulling that girls's pigtails is whether it got you the big egg thirty years later.
The reason we have evolved to enjoy catching fish is because it puts food on the table resulting growth to sexual maturity and finally -- ta da, that
all-important egg.
skipjack
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Like I said, I don't understand their particular love for catching fish just to catch fish. These guys are not the big concern regarding fish
depletions. Like Whistler said, they work hard at trying to keep the fishery viable. As far as pain and suffering...... I can say I have mixed
feelings. There is a proper way to C&R to reduce injury and trauma. Not that we know exactly what a fish personally endures during the event is
why I can't say it's a "bad" thing. It certainly is a logical approach to taming or satisfying the thirst of the "hunter" in lieu of killing them.
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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perfect...
| Quote: | Originally posted by whistler
Okay,you guys win.I will kill everything I catch. |
then grill it up and throw it in a pan with some butter
and limon and youre set
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
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Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by eetdrt88
| Quote: | Originally posted by whistler
Okay,you guys win.I will kill everything I catch. |
then grill it up and throw it in a pan with some butter
and limon and youre set |
I strongly disagree. Butter & garlic first. Then a squeeze of lemon
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Like I said, I don't understand their particular love for catching fish just to catch fish.
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Sharks, it's not about the understanding of this pleasure. It's a gut thing. It's not a mental thing. That's why I trust it and cannot change it.
Has your blood ever rushed at the sight of line screaming off the reel when a tuna heads for the horizon? Has your heart stopped at the sight of a
marlin tailwalking next to your boat? Have you every held your breath in anticipation of a trout rising to your fly - will he take it or not?
If you haven't had these feelings then it's not your truth. It's my truth and that's why I fish.
Why do we like to fish?
Because of 5 million years of human evolution!
I don't know how else to say it. It's not a right or wrong thing. It's not about being fair or unfair ("What has that innocent thing ever done to
you?"). You are what you are and there is no apologizing for it. The lion does not apologize to the gazelle for eating it, nor for the pleasure of
chasing it.
skipjack
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Buzzbee International Newsletter
Dear Members; You all knew we would be catching some flack from all over with the announcement of our Second Annual Buzzbee Hummingbird Tournament.
This one, June 12 thru 16 in Panama has lit up more boards than I could have guessed.
I expected a lot of noise from the Audubon people, a lot of bird huggers but Ducks Unlimited? Come on!! And the billfish people. I know I have had
to mention some striking similarities between our tournaments and theirs in a few of my flyers and editorial pieces.
When they jump on us I send them the standard stuff in reply; a copy of our Certificate of Standardization for our mist nets and our scales. They
all know we are after the smallest bird, not the largest and though our prey might be different in that respect, we follow the same kinds of game
protection practices they employ ? at times we exceed them. For example we allow no mist netting within 50 feet of a known nesting site.
I have been very clear and vocal with these groups. Yes, some birds are injured, killed in the nets. Yes, some birds are killed, harmed, eaten by
raptors, shrikes, even spiders when tournament entrants can?t get to the nets quick enough. To the billfish tournament groups I submit that we lose
far fewer birds than they lose billfish (per tournament).
The fishing people have harangued me to death about some things:
A.. Catch and Release, Catch and Release. We release every bird that?s unharmed, able to fly. Always have, Always will.
B. Charitable Contributions. All proceeds of Buzzbee Tournaments International go to charities chosen by the board at our annual meeting in October
of each year. In 2001, our first year, we were able to give some $68,000 to several worthwhile causes around the globe.
C. Animal Protection. All the billfish organizations claim that their tournaments aid the fishery, help the fish. I don?t know how that can be.
How does catching (harming) fish help the fishery, help the fish? The charity dollars go everywhere except back into the fishery to grow more fish.
It seems to me that if you are successful at promoting fishing for billfish, more fish will be caught, killed, injured. The greater your success, the
more fish you kill, injure.
Members, take heart. I will continue to keep the record straight with these groups. I?ll update them each time we add another protection service.
In February I alerted them about our new rules concerning mandatory net alarms, weighing area enclosure standards, updated feeder placement
regulations (including allowable nectar formulae).
Until next time, ?Find the Wee One, Win the Big One?, keep the Bees Buzzin.
Osprey
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rpleger
Super Nomad
Posts: 1087
Registered: 3-12-2005
Location: H. Mulegé, BCS
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Mood: Was good.
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Don`t remove the hook.
Cut the line close to the hook.
The hook will desolve in a day or two and the fish will be as healthy as ever.
Catch and release works.
Richard on the Hill
*ABROAD*, adj. At war with savages and idiots. To be a Frenchman abroad is to
be miserable; to be an American abroad is to make others miserable.
-- Ambrose Bierce, _The Enlarged Devil\'s Dictionary_
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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That is simply not true...
| Quote: | Originally posted by rpleger
The hook will desolve in a day or two and the fish will be as healthy as ever. |
Steel is fairly resistant to corrosion when it is fully submerged in salt water. Put a hook in a jar of salt water and see if it is gone in "a day or
two".
++Ken++
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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We only leave the hook in if you will do more harm then good removing it, ex. a deeply hooked fish. We try to only use "bronze" hooks, they rust out
but not in a day or two.
Its amazing to me so many of you dont understand the benefits of CPR. I know you want us not to catch the beautiful fish, or is it only if we kill
everything we catch. Every pangero/cruiser skipper knows that every fish released is another he can catch again on his next charter. How many of these
multi-generation fisherman have switched from commercial gillnetter to fishng guide who uses CPR? Do they not make more $$ taking gringos fishing then
gill netting? How much does bird watching, sitting on the beach and hiking help the local economy?
I really doubt Mex 1 would of been paved if it werent for the great fishing.
One more thing. I dont know of anyone who "rockcod" and doesnt keep the fish. {Rockcodding is fishing really deep, when the fish come up they dont
survive, they bloat up}. In my fishing circles, the worst thing you can do is waste the resource. If your caught by the wrong person, you could be in
for a realy bad day.
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baitcast
Super Nomad
Posts: 1785
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: kingman AZ.
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Mood: good
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Rusty Hooks
Ken was being nice.more like a year or two if not more,the hooks of today are made of fine materials and will last forever.
I can just picture myself cutting the line off an 8$ jig or plug rather than carefully extracting a hook or two.
It has made me wonder in the case of billfish,while watching off shore fishing you see them cut the line all the time when they bring the
fish alongside,how do they know the hook placement unless its in the mouth or bill?
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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You will see them cut the line if the fish was caught on live bait, not a marlin jig. Most guys are using circle hooks which 99% of the time gets the
fish in the corner of the mouth. Usually the wire man, if he is good will be able to bill the fish and remove the hook. Marlin also have the ability
to invert thier stomachs to expell anything that wasnt good to eat, they then just swallow it back down.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Frank
Every pangero/cruiser skipper knows that every fish released is another he can catch again on his next charter. |
I'd like to think that this perfectly illustrates my point.
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
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I think you misunderstand. I said "sport fishing is sadistic" not "sport fishermen are sadistic".
I don't have any problems with the catching part, just releasing.
If you catch it, kill it and eat it or give it to someone who will.
Ever watch bass fishing on TV? |
Im confused.
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