| Pages:
1
2
3 |
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
Well this must mean something???
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
My first response from emails today...the responder asked not to be quoted...
My first "friend" was my marketing professor at Cal Poly Pomona in 1978..he was a Vice President Marketing for Texaco Oil.
Here it is...
Bob,
Here are some answers to your questions about acetone in gasoline.
Acetone mixed with gasoline will degrade the fuel lines faster than gas alone.
Why it does this I'm not exactly sure, but ketones (class of organic compounds like acetone) are notorious for swelling polymers and leaching out
plasticizers.
It may do some of these things to your car and you won’t want that to happen.
Acetone lowers the flash point of fuel and a lower flash point fuel will improve fuel economy.
Cheaper grade gasoline also gives you better gas mileage because it has a lower flash point.
You can also get a 'pinging' in the engine (pre-ignition sparking coming from the gas igniting too early). This isn't good for your car.
If you own a high-performance car, the compression in the cylinders REQUIRE a higher-grade fuel with a higher flash point to run correctly. So
don’t put this stuff in your Porsche 911.
Remember Bob; acetone is about 5% water.
You wouldn’t want to put water in your engine or gas tank.
Acetone and gas will not react when combined, but you probably don't want to add acetone for the following reasons:
1. Pre-ignition of the fuel
2. Damage to fuel lines from normal acetone properties.
3. Water in acetone condenses inside cylinders and rusts out gas tanks.
4. Ketones and other oxygen-bearing organics like ethanol have been known to produce carcinogenic incomplete combustion products in exhaust. This
means the exhaust is NOT CLEAN!!!
When the price of gas goes up there are always people looking for ways to stretch their gas-dollar.
John |
Bob,
Please do not consider anything I say on the subject at hand as a personal attack aimed at you. I am sure you are a gentleman and wonderful person.
This discussion is truly a educational exercise only.
I did say opinions of oil company's twist and spew people would hold no merit.
I should not, but feel compelled to answer.
1. Pre-ignition of the fuel
The addition of acetone increases octane not decreases it.
I don't expect you to understand combustion, but be assured when an engine knocks you need to increase your octane. Acetone will not cause
pre-ignition of the fuel period. This has not ever happened, but let us say it did. A simple 1/4 degree retarding of ignition would solve the issue.
2. Damage to fuel lines from normal acetone properties.
Bunk! We are talking a concentration of 640 to 1 part acetone.
You dilute acetone 640 to 1 with water you would have a great women's exfoliater. Only kidding
CAUTION: Acetone degrades cheaper plastics. They can not,and will not degrade modern quality fuel systems plastics. They are trying to use yesterday
to confuse you. The oil company's answers years ago was "degrades rubber". I am glad he did not try to run that one past me, as they have not used
exposed rubber in a long time. If they did the amount of acetone used would take a hell of long time.
3. Water in acetone condenses inside cylinders and rusts out gas tanks.
The answer to each is, YES. What can I say? The combination of acetone and water super cleans your cylinders!! The word condenses is what they play
on. It is meant to scare you. The fact is water is absorbed by acetone and is readily burned. At high idle take a coke bottle of water and slowly pour
it down your carburetor. Then take it out and put the pedal to the metal and watch the carbon blow out the back. I am not saying that water is good
for your engine. To much of anything is not good, except maybe prayer. Now consider this. Acetone 640 to 1 (2 oz to 10 Gal.). Water 5% of acetone "
Remember Bob; acetone is about 5% water" Can any of you good mathematics people tell me how much water that is? I don't think I can measure that
minuscule amount. The fact is opening you gas cap at almost anytime you accumulate more then that. Should we even mention how much water is pumped
into our tanks through the pipeline. Again, acetone absorbs water and burns it. Acetone rusting the tank. When??? 20-30 years??? Did you notice they
did not say it rusted the cylinders.
4. Ketones and other oxygen-bearing organics like ethanol have been known to produce carcinogenic incomplete combustion products in exhaust. This
means the exhaust is NOT CLEAN!!!
Before I get into this let me post a quote"
"
Acetone
A colorless, volatile liquid with a sweet odor. It is considered the least toxic solvent in industry. It can occur naturally. It is used in the
production of lubricating oils, chloroform, pharmaceuticals, pesticides, paints, varnishes and lacquers. If present in water, it is more likely to
volatilize or biodegrade before bioaccumulating or adsorbing to sediments. Acetone will also readily volatilize and biodegrade in soil. It is also a
common laboratory contaminant, so its presence in a sample does not always indicate its presence in the environment. Synonyms - Dimethylketone and
2-propanone.
Again I refer to the 640 to 1 use rate. I have been handling and using Ketones for 40 years. Oh I forgot I am sure I have cancer and should not be
able to type!!!!!!!!!!
How many excuses does the oil company's really have?????? They know they are dieing and are holding on by their nails. The world is running out of
stupid people.
My God, do the oil company's really think that their product does not produce carcinogenic by products????
If you want to be part of the future invest your money in QTWW. The oil company's will surely say the by product (water) will surely rust your pipes.
Now if the by product was Pacifico they would quit their silliness and drink one with us.
Albert
[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
|
|
Al?you?re correct
I?m nowhere near a chemical engineer.
This discussion is truly an educational exercise only.
Just because something is posted on the Internet doesn?t mean it?s TRUE.
Posting something like ?Pouring Acetone in your tank? is just not a good idea.
People do things stupid?
I see lots of Internet hoaxes and myths that gullible people truly believe.
I would HATE to see someone that poured a chemical in his or her gas tank to get better mileage break down in the middle of MEX1.
?Motor Heads? that change stuff on their car or truck always amaze me?people are ALWAYS trying to invent a better mouse trap.
?A simple 1/4 degree retarding of ignition would solve the issue.?
Again?Car Manufactures spend MILLIONS to produce a quality long lasting car. Why change something that?s not broke!!!
(RE:Water?)?Bunk! We are talking a concentration of 640 to 1 part acetone.?
Water injection systems are made but?they don?t work for the ?common man?.
And the?Women?s Exfoiler = I?m sure a MAN invented that TORTURE DEVICE ?remember the one that ?rips? the hairs out?OUCH!!!
?They can not, and will not degrade modern quality fuel systems plastics.?
But with todays plastics being made in every part of the world how does someone know until it?s too late and they?re stuck on the Santa Rosalia grade?
Don?t assume that if you ?Buy American?, the parts came from America.
Third world countries do a lot of the ?dangerous? manufacturing.
?Acetone rusting the tank. When??? 20-30 years??? Did you notice they did not say it rusted the cylinders.??
I agree here?I?ve only kept 2 cars longer than 4 years, my 911 and my Sunbeam Tiger?both gone now. Who are you saving it for???The next guy?
?Ketones?have been known to produce carcinogenic incomplete combustion products in exhaust. This means the exhaust is NOT CLEAN!!!?
I pretty sure ALL exhaust is CANSEROUS right now without Acetone!!!
I?m like every ?OLD GUY? and have sucked in lots of gas, paint fumes, and asbestos.
I just hope I beat the odds. 
|
|
|
comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
|
|
Again?Car Manufactures spend MILLIONS to produce a quality long lasting car. Why change something that?s not broke
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
Thanks Bob
A reasonable and responsible reply and I think we should leave it here for other to make up their own minds.
Best regards
Al
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65257
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
Back in my days at Palomar College where I took a series of automotive mechanic classes, one of the instructors regularly poured a Coke bottle (the
old fashion small ones) of water down the carb of his Ford, keeping the RPMs up so it wouldn't stall, exactly like the post above stated... He claimed
it 'steam cleaned' the inside of the motor, no harm done! Perhaps 1950's mentality?
Later, I installed a water injection system on my Subaru 4WD in the days of 79 octane Pemex NOVA gas... It worked fine.
If acetone was so dangerous, thousands of Vietnamese nail salon girls would be dropping over, ... true?
It does seem odd that such a tiny amount would have such a good result on economy, yet not have any negatives... So, why isn't it added to some brand
of gas, like Techrolene is added to Chevron?
Tell you what, as Antonio is an engineer (electrical not chemical, however), I will ask him about this later...
You would think we would see late night ads on TV for an acetone miracle fuel inhancer, though???
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
It is and they do
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Back in my days at Palomar College where I took a series of automotive mechanic classes, one of the instructors regularly poured a Coke bottle (the
old fashion small ones) of water down the carb of his Ford, keeping the RPMs up so it wouldn't stall, exactly like the post above stated... He claimed
it 'steam cleaned' the inside of the motor, no harm done! Perhaps 1950's mentality?
Later, I installed a water injection system on my Subaru 4WD in the days of 79 octane Pemex NOVA gas... It worked fine.
If acetone was so dangerous, thousands of Vietnamese nail salon girls would be dropping over, ... true?
It does seem odd that such a tiny amount would have such a good result on economy, yet not have any negatives... So, why isn't it added to some brand
of gas, like Techrolene is added to Chevron?
Tell you what, as Antonio is an engineer (electrical not chemical, however), I will ask him about this later...
You would think we would see late night ads on TV for an acetone miracle fuel inhancer, though??? |
... "So, why isn't it added to some brand of gas, like Techrolene is added to Chevron?"
I would think that Techrolene blows a hole in the story of additives have no merit, or does it show the oil companies deceptive ways.
I see mileage ads all the time and I am sure some have some acetone. I will not pay the price.
Sorry Bob, Techrolene (spell?) was to big a target. They can sell us something, but we should never think for ourselves.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Uglyhat
Newbie
Posts: 19
Registered: 8-24-2005
Location: Oregon
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
Again?Car Manufactures spend MILLIONS to produce a quality long lasting car. |
I must take some exception to this statement. Car manufacturers are in the business of selling cars. Their heirarchy of priorities probably goes
something like this:
1) Stock price, profits, shareholders.
2) Meeting emissions standards.
3) Meeting safety standards.
4) Fuel economy.
5) Reliability.
6) Performance.
- just my 2 clams
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
I forgot to say " techorlene could be acetone" has all the same properties.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
|
|
Homebrew Gasoline
Regardless of any supposed merits to these additives, aren't you spending a lot of time and effort to save a relatively insignificant amount of money
? So far, the gasoline increases have not made that much of a dent in consumer spending.
If the U.S. were determined to address the Oil crisis seriously, they would set rules in motion to drill for more oil in the domestic market, increase
refinery capacity and focus on increasing the amount of Ethanol produced and utilized. I watched a History Channel segment the other day on Ethanol
use in Brazil. It's was interesting to see what a country could do if they had the determination. All of the downsides to Ethanol have been
addressed because they made it government policy to do so.
|
|
|
Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
|
|
...hey I thought we were done????
Techrolene
Marketing...Laughing cartoon cars
Gas is Gas.
Remember Chevron/Texaco/Shell= SAME COMPANY!!!!
Priorities for car makers:
MAKE MONEY Period!!!
Market Share
"They" don't care about ANYTHING else!!
The Government only wants the car makers to provide jobs (and they do this well) so the economy will continue.
We're just ants in the ant farm!!!
ps
AL Texaco hasn't got back to me yet....thik they ever will????
[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Bob and Susan]
|
|
|
MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
|
|
Gas IS Gas
Amen to that. When I was younger, I had a Brother-in-law who was an engineer at the Standard Oil Facility in El Segundo. The line you heard so often
from Gas Station operators was that the small independents bought at discount from the major refineries the sub-par gasoline they produced. Asking
him about that, he said that they pumped ALL of their product from the same tanks, no matter who the customer was. Additionally, they sold product to
other major suppliers (Shell, Texaco, etc) when those producers had shortage problems.
On a different subject, but related to the above, I once had a friend who tried to get me a job with Firestone Tire and Rubber in Salinas. At the
time, Firestone was operating at high capacity because the Union was striking Goodyear (or Goodrich ?) so Firestone was producing their tires in
addition to it's own. Think about that the next time you hear a tire manufacturer talk about the superiority of their product.
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
gas IS gas
This reminds me of a story of the 70s gas shortage.
May have told this on another thread?
I had a manufacturing plant in a little town called Wallace. (cabinets)
My close friend Ron had a Exxon station in Valley Springs. while everyone else had to wait in line for two hours, he, myself and family went down at
night and filled up. This was important to me because I had trucks for delivery.
The reason I bring this up is in order to get gas the supplier would only allow him to open 2 hrs a day creating the impression of a shortage. There
was never a time he couldn't get his tanks filled and pumped more gas then he had ever before. He was a good guy, but he was making a killing. It was
the most profitable time in his whole life.
I don't know if it was guilt or what, but I have been  at oil companies ever
since.
Also your are right he never knew which brand he was selling next, and if you think all gas is equal think again.
many times he had to make them clean his tanks because it was contaminated. Mostly water.
Albert
[Edited on 9-16-2005 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
|
|
..gas and water don't mix
Water in the tank is a leak or condensation.
His FAULT!!!!
He probably left the HUGE tank empty....
Todays stations have FILTERS to remove the water.
|
|
|
bajaden
Nomad
Posts: 496
Registered: 4-7-2005
Location: Ensenada
Member Is Offline
Mood: vicarious
|
|
Thanks for all the info guys. Its been an interesting discussion. Being the adventurous type I'm inclined to try it. I could tell a few Oil company
stories but they would be redundet. Well, off to the hardware store to buy some acetone. Funny, I was in printing for 22 years and used the stuff all
the time. Never thought of putting in the gas tank.
|
|
|
comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
|
|
Bajaden
I put mine in a bottle with a little trans. fluid. Probably won't do anything but it seems a though I was told by someone the top cyl. lub they sell
was atf. thought it would be good idea.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
|
|
|
Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
|
|
WOAH!!!
Now we're putting trans fluid in the gas too???
Type F or Type A???
What NEXT??? Salsa or Vinagar???
How about just plain ol gas....
|
|
|
mrchuck
Junior Nomad
Posts: 82
Registered: 11-6-2002
Location: Gun Barrel City, TX
Member Is Offline
|
|
Moth balls, anybody remember mothballs added to your gas tank for street racing? I do.
White gas for your outboard motor, another memory,,,,
Saludos,,,mc
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
..gas and water don't mix
Water in the tank is a leak or condensation.
His FAULT!!!!
He probably left the HUGE tank empty....
Todays stations have FILTERS to remove the water. |
I must of have not mentioned this was in the 70's.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
Bajaden
I put mine in a bottle with a little trans. fluid. Probably won't do anything but it seems a though I was told by someone the top cyl. lub they sell
was atf. thought it would be good idea. |
The closest description: Acetone+ATF="Tolene" or "Xylol"
Quote:
"Adding Tolene is just an octane additive",( years and years and still a miss conception!! Al) "I don't know what the negative sides are.(none
except loss of horse power-Al) When I used to run turbo cars it wasn't uncommon to see guys mixing this stuff in their garage before heading out. I
never
bothered; it reminded me too much of adding mothballs to the gas tank" -
"another octane additive that I just never tried on my own.StreetRacer." (talk about old school)
I point out these additives as "Bunk" ATF mix, tolene (toluol), and Xylol (Xylene)
Any oil will reduce octane!!! This is the excuse the Oil companies used to state: " acetone will cause your engine to PING (knock). They are lumping
all Ketones together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are confusing the issue of acetone!
[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
|
|
|
The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
WOAH!!!
Now we're putting trans fluid in the gas too???
Type F or Type A???
What NEXT??? Salsa or Vinagar???
How about just plain ol gas.... |
What kind of salsa? Cruda? Picante?
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
