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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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I just asked my kids what they would do if they encountered this situation. They both responded that they would run to find me and tell me what they
saw asap.
When I asked what they would then expect me to do, they said they would expect me to go look and help the man somehow.
When I asked what they would feel if I just said to forget it and did nothing. They both looked at me with confused looks; they couldn't understand
why I would do this. It would dissapoint them.
I'm proud of my kids and I want a better world for them.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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i'm glad that i can still provoke a little controversy now and then. i think (most) everyone has a valid perspective on the subject but having the
comfort of hindsight and a computor monitor does twist reality a bit, no?
my point has been made and i'm not trying to win any accolades or make any enemies. all i can say is next time you pass the area, why don't you go for
a walk with one of your kids and decide, with the notion of hindsight being 20/20.
it has nothing to do with stopping to help a stranded motorist and everything to do with walking into an unknown situation, with your child. 
as for not going to the nearest person/authorities to report what i'd seen? well, after all, it is a foriegn country and maybe i just was spooked at
the time and maybe i wasn't. again, hindsight.
[Edited on 3-25-2006 by woody in ob]
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Tomas Tierra
Super Nomad
Posts: 1281
Registered: 3-23-2005
Location: oxnard, ca
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Mood: Tengo Flojera
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Diver-
At 4 months old, My son would not have been tought anything about manhood, thank you very much...
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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I hope everyone understands that I am just expressing my feelings and mean no offense but.......
.......this is the most fun I've had since JR passed ! I do miss the man.
Lot's of spirited opinions ! All welcome, of course.
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Tomas Tierra
Super Nomad
Posts: 1281
Registered: 3-23-2005
Location: oxnard, ca
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Mood: Tengo Flojera
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Yu are prety qiuck on the judge and insult there Diver...I have helped COUNTLESS people on the side of the road (ussually dirt road) and feel my road
carma is good...my kids are being brought up well and taught safety first when we are in Baja..to get involved with some dude laying in a ditch in the
middle of the desert is un safe with young kids IMHO...
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Tomas Tierra
Super Nomad
Posts: 1281
Registered: 3-23-2005
Location: oxnard, ca
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Mood: Tengo Flojera
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You snuck that one in whilst I was typing Diver...and yes its all good....Its all hindsight and really, who knows how one would react in that sit. I
can only guess at my reaction....safety for the ninos #1 concern!!
JR would be going off lately!! Seems people are coming out of their shells since the Man passed.... HE is missed!!
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
Registered: 11-7-2002
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I agree with Dessert Rat. Curiosity would get the better of me. I would check it out - though I don't think I'd go through his pockets, steal his
boots, or place a lighted M-80 in his mouth or anything like that even if he is dead.
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Tomas Tierra
Super Nomad
Posts: 1281
Registered: 3-23-2005
Location: oxnard, ca
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Mood: Tengo Flojera
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Your makin people think Woody!! Been talkin to my wife all morning about this stuff...
Good thread! Tuff subject..
Desert Rat..way to get right to the heart of it man! you are absolutely right
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Someone mentioned JR--Wonder what he would have done. Desert Rat is right on--Setting up an ambush with no reasonable expectation that someone would
stumble into it is just not real world.
Having been a 'first' responder---I always thought that is what we were supposed to do--respond!
Heck, I didn't even look at this post because I thought it was just one of those--"Where is this" posts.
Going to the authorities--now that IS iffy particulary in Mexico with the guilty until proven innocent thing operating.
Most interesting post. Go back now! If he smells it is not a setup.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Natalie Ann
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2819
Registered: 8-22-2003
Location: Berkeley
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Not only is the choice of location a poor one for an ambush, as pointed out by Desert Rat... I gotta tell you folks that if someone wants to ambush
you in the middle of the desert they've no need to lie across the path playing dead. They'd have much better luck hiding behind brush or some of that
rock, where you'd never suspect trouble lurking.
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.
.....Oscar Wilde
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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To me, "Ambush" is not the real question---
-----I agree that an actual "ambush" is not likely, but the real issue is that the kid was there (or anybody else, for that matter). Your "instinct
to help" should not put somebody else in danger, unless they are competant to take on that danger, whatever it may be, it seems to me. We were
always taught, "back-up", "back-up", "back-up" before ever responding to a potentially dangerous situation. Sometimes you don't have that luxuary,
but in this case (as described) I am real leery of just rushing in. There is a dead guy (probably), and that is potentially dangerous, and it is
Mexico and the laws are different----all contribute to being hesitant to just rush in. If I was alone, I probably would have investigated further,
more out of curiosity than anything else. This does not seem to me to be someone just in "trouble".
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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like i said, there are 100's of reasons that guy was there. i didn't think there were skinny banditos behind the scrub at the time. i'm more worried
about coming close enough that the guy spins with a knife, machete, etc at close range. NOPE, not this gringo, or my son!!!
we'd been out there for some time so the guy COULD have been aware we were coming closer. or....
so maybe i'm callous? if he's dead, i don't want to be anywhere nearby when the birds start circling. if he wasn't dead, then i'm happy we didn't
disturb him and left him to his own devices. after all, he got there somehow! if he was hurt and couldn't move when he heard me call to my son, well,
maybe he was too far gone anyway and i don't want to be anywhere around when the questions start coming.......
[Edited on 3-25-2006 by woody in ob]
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10562
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Woody: you did absolutely the right thing. No way, no how would I have gone near that guy. I'd would be out of there so fast it would make your
head spin. I would report it though.
[Edited on 3-26-2006 by JZ]
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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why are some of you so afraid of reporting some one that needs help or anything else.
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Bruce----for me, it's "you are guilty until proven innocent."
-------that "rule of law" can really ruin your day.
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
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I would never have believed I would hear some of the previous responses from Baja Nomads. I'm very dissapointed. Sorry, but I just don't understand.
Come on people. What if that was your son and no one would even tell another human he was there ??? Is this is the behavior of civilized men these
days ??
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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I've erased what I wanted to say 6 times now. So...I'm the guy who would of checked him. If for nothing else other then my conscience. My family knows
Im that kind of guy, and my sons will be also. I have to be who Iam , no matter what/where/when.
Woody, your gut/instinct said leave, you listened. I cant fault you for that.
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Bedman
Senior Nomad
Posts: 523
Registered: 9-4-2002
Location: Orange County, CA.
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SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA.....
We can all come to a conclusion via supposition or conjecture. Sad to say we have no idea What was happening in the mind of another soul at any one
particular point in time.
Just think, you've been traveling for 9 hours.
As you crossed the border and weaved through Tijuana traffic a Not so upstanding cop had stopped you and wrongfully accused you of a hit and run
accident. You deny it flatly and unequivically and think the worst is going to happen. He threatens you deny. It goes on for a few minutes until he
puts the bite on you. Looking at your son you breath a sigh of relief you hand over a sum of money and the cop warns you to be "Extra Careful" in a
menacing and ominous tone.
Next Stop is the Pemex in Ensenada and the attendant pulls the old "Back to Zero" pump scam. You think, "Should I call a cop?" You don't. "Damn, that
just cost me $40 bucks" as you pull out into traffic. Looking at your son as you point your way South your figuring you'll have a Great time when you
finally get to your favorite fishing spot and get camp set up.
Your car drops into the second vado in Catavina. You pull off to look for those Blue Palm seeds you want to grow. You know exactly where they are.
Walking up the quiet canyon you see somebody lieing down. Who is that? Why is he here? It's too quiet you think to yourself and the hair on the back
of your neck starts to tingle. You call to your son...no answer. You call out again and he calls back to you. That little voice in your head starts
talking loud and clear. The bells and sirens are now ringing inside your head. Warning! Warning!
Do you take your son by the hand and walk up the arroyo? Do you call a Friendly cop? Do you tell the guy at the gas station?
I'm not saying all these things happened, Hell, I have no idea what happened that day.
I do know, I wasn't there, I don't get a vote.
Bedman
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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This is one of the most disturbing posts I've seen here in a long time.
One man finds another who is in need of assistance in the open desert. He takes a picture of him and leaves. Only to post the picture of the victim
and discuss the circumstances on the internet. It makes your blood chill.
The night before reading this post I had watched Titanic on the boob tube. My mind went straight to that film. 1,500 people were crying for help in
that freezing water while 700 others sat in their lifeboats listening and unwilling to do a damn thing. They told themselves that it was too
dangerous. That their boats would be swamped. In hindsight they look like a cowardly lot. A class of people (the rich) who had lost their perspective
and moral values to do the right thing.
There was a story in the Mercury News a couple of years ago that's also related to this. We had a very wet winter that year and the Coyote river had
flooded. A migrant worker had seen a boy in distress carried by the rushing water. The man jumped in to help. Later on they found the drowned man
downstream but the boy miraculously survived. Was the would be rescuer a hero? Or was he a fool? He was neither. He did what he had to do. He reacted
instinctively. The time called for action and his core values were strong enough that no thinking or analysis was required.
And that's how I feel about this thread. There's too much rationalization about something that should have been a gut check.
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
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Seems like people posting on this no-brainer are making a choice....and it is a very basic one for your place in the world.
You are either an Invalid or a Nurse.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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