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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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im not advocating that anyone should break the law and i think everyone in the usa should be legal just get tired of hearing money greedy big busness
is the whole problem
jerry and judi
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Bajabus
Senior Nomad
Posts: 892
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Elias Calles B.C.S. or NC USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: My friends..it's good.
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The fence is a joke. TW is right on with his comments.
WTF does 9/11 have to do with it? Like a friggin fence is really gonna even hinder for more than a few minutes someone bent on committing a terrorist
act.
Jeez all I gotta do is come ashore in Florida with my phony drivers lic, walk into a gun shop, then head on over the the feed store, get a few bags of
ammonium nitrate, 5 gallons of high octane gas and head to the Mall. (note I deliberately left out something from that equation for those who know
such things and might want to point it out in a public forum, I do not)
What are you going to do lero put up a fence on the coastlines also?
How about land mines and machine gun turrets
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked of such a thing."
Dwight David Eisenhower
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bajarich
Nomad
Posts: 464
Registered: 1-13-2005
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What an incentive it would be to keep them in Mexico if all of the Gringos building houses down there actually paid the workers gringo wages instead
of $10 per day. I think that some are real hipocrits when they complain about the Mexicans wanting to come to the U.S. but at the same time are
taking advantage of the cheap labor down there. I'm sure it can be rationalized by saying that $10/day is the market rate, but the bottom line is
they are just doing what workers in the States are told to do when they aren't being paid enough..."If this job doesn't pay enough, go find one that
pays more".
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Stickers
Senior Nomad
Posts: 571
Registered: 4-12-2006
Location: SoCal
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Build a tall fence (very tall)
| Quote: | You fricken people care at all that 3000 Americans were killed on 911 or do you just have a convenient memory.?
Like I said in another post , get this one built now so we can get started on the one from Vancouver to Maine
[Edited on 11-10-2006 by Bajalero] |
I guess if we build a fence 60,000 feet high we can prevent another 911 and I must have memory problems since I always forget that those terrorist
came from Mexico.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Bajalero:
Of the 19 Saudi and Egyptian murderers who attacked the US in 2001, can you tell us how many of them crossed the Mexican border on foot? If I'm not
mistaken, when they committed their crimes, they were all flying highjacked airplanes. If I am not even further mistaken, there is nothing in the
design of this fence that will keep airplanes out of the US. (A 40,000 foot tall fence maybe) While the fence might temporarily delay some certain
stupid terrorists, it would be about as effective at preventing another 9/11 as me and my .22 pistol.
I don't think this fence is about protecting us from fear any more than it is a rational way to handle our need for cheap foreign labor.
Again I didn't look at the second page of posts
I'm not really copying those very intelligent people with whom I was agreeing above.
[Edited on 11-10-2006 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Just saw a great flick, A Day Without Mexicans. Says it all.
Iflyfish
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Question for Bajabus and others.
What is you Solution to the Problem:
Words do not Count. Only Solutions that have Actions?
Does anyone know Why DOPE is no longer transported by Airplane from Mexico??
Does anyone Know Why the Berlin Wall kept People inside East Berlin???
Does anyone know the Difference in a Wall that Keeps People Inside as opposed to a Fence that Keeps People "Out"???
Skeet/Loreto
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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Set up a guest worker program that IDs those coming into the U.S. to work and matches them with an employer. A physical fence is not needed. Besides
tunnels can be dug under it. Technology already exist to monitor the border, it just needs to be put in place across all of it. If people can move
across the border legally for jobs, less will try crossing thru the wilderness and deserts and our Border patrol will be better about to control it.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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skeet democrates dont have solutions they only condem republican ideas
jerry and judi
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wornout
Senior Nomad
Posts: 595
Registered: 10-24-2004
Location: San Felipe, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Bad Days
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Stickers
I guess if we build a fence 60,000 feet high we can prevent another 911 and I must have memory problems since I always forget that those terrorist
came from Mexico. |
That's funny, I thought all the airplanes used in 9/11 took off from airports in the United States. I stand corrected and thanks for the education.
I got to get out more!
[Edited on 11-11-2006 by wornout]
This Space Available, E-Mail Me If Interested.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Liberals and other Losers
The Baja "residents" who become apoplexic over the Fence subject for the most part fall into three co-mingled groups.
1. The typical Fellow-Traveller Lefty who hates, and is ashamed of, most everything about the U.S. They believe that we are (and have always been)
the World's Bully and are undeserving of the power and wealth our nation has produced. Born in another decade, they would have been among the
multitudes in the 1930s who were in love with the Marxist movement in Russia and sat around in their secret meetings decrying all that the U.S. stood
for, plotting the overthrow by the proletariat.
2. Those "residents" who are concerned that the fence and securing the border will reflect adversely on their residence in Mexico and wish for their
neighbors to all know how oppressive they think U.S. policies are towards their adopted family and country in hope that they won't be grouped together
with the "UGLY" Gringos who are so oppressing the downtrodden of the American Hemisphere.
3. The last group consists of those who are just plain too Dumb to rationally assess the situation at hand. The Dumbos class tends to be
predominantly LeftWing, thinking that their lack of success in life is due to their oppression rather than their low mental faculties.
The shrill bloviating that "the fence won't work" is really just so much smoke. Secure fencing HAS worked where it has been used and
patrolled. The Left has moaned often enough about the effectiveness of the fence when the subject was Illegals who have fallen in the desert because
of it. Their real concern is that it Will work.
Regarding FAIR wages:
Whatever wages a Mexican worker earns is the responsibility of the Mexican government. They have the power to legislate adequate wage levels, but
choose to do exactly the opposite. When the Macquiladoras were in full force, Mexican law prohibited individual employers from
paying a wage above that which was set by the Government.
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Bajalero
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
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Gee , Where did I say anything about airplanes ? I swear some of you are just a little too simple if that is the best retort you can come up with.
The whole point and my only point is national security and that we need to control who and what comes in and out of the country. Plenty of people from
many other places than Mexico sneak across our borders on a daily basis and some of those probably don't have the best intentions otherwise they
wouldn't be sneaking.
Border issues have been with us a long time , and I realize many of you are far removed and it is not apparent what transpires here everyday . It's
out of control, period , and the rest of the country is finally waking up to the fact because it is affecting their communities and pocketbooks.
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SUNDOG
Nomad
Posts: 176
Registered: 8-9-2006
Location: Baja
Member Is Offline
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the Fence
[img] http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/sundog/graphics/mexfree.jpg[/img]
All the fence will do is slow them down
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Jerry says:
"skeet democrates dont have solutions they only condem republican ideas"
I first ran into this issue some forty-five years ago when I was introduced to picking fruit by “Braceros”. I learned that I couldn’t pick worth
squat. The owners put me on a clipboard-counting bucket in less than an hour. I also learned that I could swap my brown paper bag, balloon bread,
bologna sandwich, a bag of chips and a coke for a trip to the Taco Wagon for a steaming bowl of Chile Verde and corn tortillas and a beer to boot! Now
that was a deal.
I also learned words that I can’t repeat here but caused other workers to laugh their asses off when they heard me say them.
I learned that most of these people had families in Mexico and earned money here so they support them and build a better life. Most wanted to build a
house for their families.
I learned that these were some of the hardest working people I ever met.
I learned that I had better finish school cause there was no future for me in the orchard.
I leaned that there were some “bad apples” in the bunch and that the “good guys” would find ways to protect me from them.
I learned that the Bracero Program was a documented worker program like the one we have now. There were also “*******s” in the group who found their
own way across the border to work. Later there was an “amnesty” declared and some of the people who wanted to stay and raise their families in the US
were able to do so.
There is no simple solution to this problem. I know that people like simple solutions. Issues like poverty, lack of access to medical care, inadequate
resources for infrastructure, public health, and education are chronic social problems that never have a “solution.” As a society, what we do is
continue to evolve approaches that will never completely eradicate the problems we wish to solve.
It is interesting to note that undocumented Mexican and Latin American workers in this country put exponentially more money into the system than they
take from it. I will not bore you with statistics and at this point. They are readily available. This issue has been well studied and documented.
Periodically it is politically expedient for politicians to haul out this perennial issue. Because there is no simple solution, it suits well the need
to slogan around it and to try to polarize the electorate. Are you for it or agin it?
You say that “democrats” offer no solutions. I beg to differ with you. The “solution” to this problem will be a combination of some sort of “amnesty”
and increased border “security”. It doesn’t matter who is in power, these are the options available to us. These are the “solutions” that Democrats
will come up with and the President will go along with. Then, someday in the future, during some election cycle, another candidate will try to
bifurcate the world and bring this issue up again.
I think Robert Frost said it best in his Mending Wall
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'.
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows?
But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.' I could say 'Elves' to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."
Check out the flick A Day Without Mexicans. I think it addresses the issue well.
Iflyfish
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bajarich
Nomad
Posts: 464
Registered: 1-13-2005
Member Is Offline
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I recently saw a T-shirt for sale in Telluride, Colorado. It had a band of American Indians on it dressed for battle. The caption said "Fighting
Terrorists since 1492"
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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The Seeing Eyes
There was a short segment on the a.m. Cable news regarding the border in New Mexico. Without any additional fencing, the deployment of the National
Guard AND High-Tech Infrared sensing devices which allow one Guardsman sitting at a Laptop to survey many miles of border area and
directing Border Patrol units to interdict those crossing has brought the crossings down by forty percent. It Works !
It was cool seeing the screen show even the Jack Rabbits as they crossed the desert area covered by the sensors.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Missing Details
For those "inquiring minds" who want to know more about the details Hinted at by The BajaBus, a rich source of information is "The Anarchist
Cookbook". It's also available online. Although out of print, it is still available at Amazon.com, among others, and is COMPLETELY LEGAL to
purchase, although it's not Legal to build anything therein without proper authorization from the Federal and State Governments. Both Palladin Press
and Delta Press are also an excellent source of numerous how-to books, although it appears that some of the titles I purchased in the past are no
longer available.
It makes for good reading.
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ME
Junior Nomad
Posts: 38
Registered: 5-29-2006
Location: 805
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I run a small construction business and it is very hard to compete with companys that cheat, they pay thier Illagal labor under the table to avoid
liabilitys such as taxes and insurance. all employers need to fear punisment from the goverment and until that happens nothing will change. My house
is clean and I need a fair playing field.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Me;
I am sorry to inform you that it is not only the companys that are "Cheating", it is the Whole Generation!!
Lying, Cheating, and Stealing has become Normal in the New Culture of the Present Young Generation.
You are right about some employers using illegals, not paying Taxes etc. on the other Hand there are problems getting any other Workers, there are
just nobody who will do the Grunk work,Field Work, Dairy Work, Roofing Work.
We need to Stop the Flow.
Set up a Guest Worker Program
I.D. the remaining "Producers'
Heavy Fines and Closure on Employers who Cheat
Send the Criminals back and Let Mexico deal with them.
Skeet/Loreto
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Do it ALL !
I've said it so many times, I am tired of it, but DO IT ALL.
Secure the border with a combination of physical barriers and Electronic interdiction methods.
Identify, Arrest and Deport Every Single Illegal Resident that can be found.
Identify, Arrest, Jail and Fine Every Single Employer found to have knowingly hired an illegal alien.
That should make even the Libs happy since they Claim they object to the fact that employers are not being cited.
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