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MrBillM
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Misinformation
To Bedman. NO ! TW's info is outdated. What he describes was wiped out by the current court decision.
DISH Network DID reach agreement with the major networks that would allow it to continue broadcasting those stations. That agreement was
Rejected by the Federal Court and the same court imposed the Most Severe penalty available which was to order Dish
to disconnect ALL subscribers to the Distant channel packages, including RVers and others who were Legally receiving those channels.
As far as the difference between Dish and DirecTV, Direc was not accused of "Blatant" disregard in allowing subscribers in prohibited Zip codes to
subscribe to Distant Channel Packages.
Also, when considering DirecTV, I went to their website and my understanding was that, in ANY area where they "offered" a local package (regardless of
location), they would not also offer a distant package. Previously, I had checked Dish Local's for a Bozeman, Montana package and no locals were
offered. However, DirecTV did offer a local package, therefore they would not offer a distant package.
Whatever remedy "might" be arrived at, it will NOT include subscribers in Zip Codes able to receive a Grade A or B broadcast signal from the major
networks unless Congress decides to amend the SHVA legislation.
As far as Dish "knowing" where your receiver is, that could only occur if you tell them because there is NO Two-way transmission.
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MrBillM
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Court Decision vs Dish Network
Here is the explanation posted by one of the RV Websites on the subject:
"This is not, overall, a "Dish vs Fox" issue. Because the 25 Fox-owned stations balked at a settlement, and may have done so because of the ownership
of Fox and DirecTV, it is often being portrayed that way. More on that later.
The way congress sees it, with the laws they've passed, local stations need to have their broadcast areas protected. That is for advertising reasons,
and protects both advertisers and station owners.
So, if you look at the document linked to, you will see that there are only 3 ways that someone living in one service area can be provided network
service from another area.
One is that they cannot receive local stations over the air.
Two is that they are mobile.
Three is that the local stations are receivable, but the stations waive their protection rights (rarely done).
Where Dish got in trouble is that they ignored sections 1 and 3. If you lived anywhere in the country and said to Dish either "I can't get station A"
or "I don't want station A" Dish would say fine, not bother to check, and just give you DNS. An estimated 800,000 unqualified Dish subscribers,
meeting none of the above conditions, were getting DNS.
Dish was sued by the National Association of Broadcasters and the Networks. They lost at every turn. When their case hit the Federal Appeals court,
that court came down with a much harsher judgement than the trial judge. They said all DNS had to be turned off for Dish, both because Dish needed to
be punished, and because Dish could not be trusted in the future to properly offer DNS under the rules.
Dish hurried out to try to settle, and reached a $100 million agreement with everybody but the 25 Fox stations.
But, and this is the important part when Fox is brought up, the trial judge said NO settlement mattered or could be made. He said that he was under
direct order to stop all DNS for Dish, period. And that's what he did.
I don't know if Dish will appeal, but of course passing through that same appellate court is likely a waste of time, so they have to get the Supreme
Court to look at it, which is unlikely.
It appears that Dish realizes that now, which is why, although they are encouraging customers to appeal to congress, they are moving in the direction
of pushing people to local-beamed satellite.
RVers, who were usually properly offered DNS, got caught in the middle of this battle. They weren't part of the lawsuit, but were made part of the
judgement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FINALLY ! For those who wish to read the 23 May 2006 11th Circuit Court of Appeals Decison:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/11th/0313671p.pdf
[Edited on 12-2-2006 by MrBillM]
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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MrBillM...Thank you for your reply on my new topic. Some how I missed this one. I have been conned by Dish Network.
I just signed up with them and they were to send me an application for long distance channels. Now I know why
I may or may not have recourse with them.
What I need is alternatives...I am sure by now you have tryed all. If you have any suggestions, I would love to here them. Do you know anything about
canada or 
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Bedman
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Posts: 523
Registered: 9-4-2002
Location: Orange County, CA.
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Mr. Bill,
As always you provide good solid information. Thank you.
Here's an update on my Dish service. We no longer have the East coast feeds at our house in Orange County, ...........BUT!! We DO still have the East
coast feed in the motorhome parked in Orange county. I was expecting them to drop off shortly after we lost the House feeds, but, they're still
there!! Go figure!!
Bedman
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MrBillM
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Registered: 8-20-2003
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Still have RV Channels
Bedman - you bring up something that occurred with a close friend a few years back. Having a house in Southwestern Colorado, he had the Santa Fe, New
Mexico Broadcast stations. Dish Network informed him that his service would be changed to the Denver Package by a given date, which it was. However,
he had a receiver in Gonzaga which was offline for a couple of months. When he went down and booted it up, it still had the Santa Fe package in
memory and he kept it for quite awhile. After selling his Colorado house, he changed to the Los Angeles local package with Denver as a distant
network. Denver, of course, is gone now on his service.
The BEST answer, at least with Dish Network at this time, is to find an address in one of the Five (?) areas which have full
coverage (not spotbeam). Those are New York, Atlanta, Denver, Los Angeles and (I'm told) San Francisco. For me only NY or ATL would give me East
Coast feed and I've been out of luck, so far, in finding said address. I've got an ex-wife in the Atlanta area, but she'd only do it if she thought
it would contribute to my death somehow.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
As far as the difference between Dish and DirecTV, Direc was not accused of "Blatant" disregard in allowing subscribers in prohibited Zip codes to
subscribe to Distant Channel Packages.
Whatever remedy "might" be arrived at, it will NOT include subscribers in Zip Codes able to receive a Grade A or B broadcast signal from the major
networks unless Congress decides to amend the SHVA legislation.
As far as Dish "knowing" where your receiver is, that could only occur if you tell them because there is NO Two-way transmission.
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About 1.5 years ago, I subscribed to Direct at home. I also have DishNet there. (Right. Two satellite systems?)
Anyway, wasn't sure how Direct would work out in my RV. Drove from Denver and lost the Direct signal around Rock Springs, WY. Called Direct from
California and they said the only way they'd give me Denver network from my RV in CA was to have a 2nd account. That would have meant an account for
home, and an account for my RV.
DishNet has known for years that my Dish receiver is in my RV in CA because after a few months of inactivity at my RV, they cut the signal. I then
need to call them and have them turn it back on -- and in the process, I explain the receiver has been off because I wasn't using the RV. They've
been fine with that so far. I'll find out shortly if I still have signal out there.
I'll report in.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Lost Authorization
It has become quite common for the account authorization to be lost when the receivers are offline for awhile. At least, that is, with the older
legacy receivers (in this case 3900 models) once they went over to the new "Yellow" Smartcards. Prior to that, my receivers in Baja could be off for
a month or more without a problem, but now one or more seems to have lost authorization when I return. I've found the best method to correct it is to
put it online and then e-mail Dish Network tech support with a request to send an authorization signal. I explain the need by saying it's a spare
receiver I keep in a closet for backup. It has worked well (usually within the hour) and I don't have to wait around on hold.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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"[I've got an ex-wife in the Atlanta area, but she'd only do it if she thought it would contribute to my death somehow.]"
Bill, tell her the radiation could kill you since your so far south.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
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Interesting Update
Periodically, I've been checking in on the info available on Dish Network regarding the Distant Channel package information.
There is now a provider (AllAmericanDirect.com) that will supply BOTH San Francisco and Atlanta Broadcast Stations (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) for $9.00 per
month for the package or $2.50 each A La Carte VIA your Dish Network receiver. The website is: http://www.mydistantnetworks.com.
IF your (U.S.) Billing Zipcode qualifies, no Problem. IF not, there is an RV waiver provided you can show an RV registration in your name.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Periodically, I've been checking in on the info available on Dish Network regarding the Distant Channel package information.
There is now a provider (AllAmericanDirect.com) that will supply BOTH San Francisco and Atlanta Broadcast Stations (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) for $9.00 per
month for the package or $2.50 each A La Carte VIA your Dish Network receiver. The website is: http://www.mydistantnetworks.com.
IF your (U.S.) Billing Zipcode qualifies, no Problem. IF not, there is an RV waiver provided you can show an RV registration in your name.
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MrbillM..
I downloaded the form and started to fill it out when I realized it was for San Francisco and Atlanta......Is this to mean I am in San Francisco so I
will receive it on the road???
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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BCSTech
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-16-2006
Location: Todos Santos, BCS / Placerville, CA.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Carpe Manana
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As of Thursday night, I have three customers who were set up with LA addresses who all reported losing their LA locals. Word on the street is they
moved the LA locals to spot beams.
Anyone else in South Baja with an LA address and signed up for the locals who can confirm this???
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
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Spotbeams
Since the Spotbeam footprint is "supposed" to cover a 150 mile radius from the focal point, IF ALL of the L.A. stations were moved to said spotbeam,
there is almost nowhere in Baja that could receive the signal. South of San Felipe, the signals are still being received according to one neighbor.
I'll find out Monday.
However, there is one caveat to the L.A. Locals which were originally on 148 west and were since moved to 119. For awhile now, I've had neighbors
report that the stations were there during the daytime and would disappear at night. Starting about three months ago, I experienced the same
phenomenon, albeit inconsistently. At times they remain around, at others they're gone. The interesting thing is that the station doesn't display a
spotbeam number on the error message which is the norm. Thus far, I have found Nobody who knows exactly what's goint on there.
Personally, I don't give a crap what they do with the L.A. stations. I'd gladly trade them for the NY or ATL stations. While I'm still looking for
an alternate Zip code to move my registered service, my fallback now is to register an RV with this new service. Since my L.A. and NY stations were
costing $9.98 per month, $9.00 for San Francisco and Atlanta is the same deal. The downside is that you can only register ONE receiver.
Note to Al G: As an RVer, you are an "unserved household" and therefore are eligible. SF and ATL are on national feeds so you'll receive them
anywhere you happen to be.
[Edited on 12-16-2006 by MrBillM]
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BCSTech
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-16-2006
Location: Todos Santos, BCS / Placerville, CA.
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Mood: Carpe Manana
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Five customers in Todos Santos and Los Barriles now reporting the LA Locals are gone from their systems.
The signal loss MrBillM is referring to is probably due to a slight "wobble" in the 119 space craft that shifts its pointing very slightly North
during the late evening and early morning. It's not noticible in the US or on larger antennas here in Baja. But smaller or misaligned antennas
operating near "the margin" of about 45 signal strength will experience this, regular as clockwork. The break point in Southern BCS is about 1.0 to
1.1 meter, same size as many converted DirecTV dishes.
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MrBillM
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Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Signal Strength
On All of the antennas that I've aligned in Percebu, I have setup with a Signal Strength on 119 between 78 and 85 with a standard Single LNB or Dual
LNB dish. The ones that are subscribing to the LA stations (five including my two) are experiencing the same problem. The others, which are
subscribed to the SD locals (which are on spotbeam transponders) experience intermittent loss of those stations day or night which ARE possibly a
result of satellite wobble since we are about 170 air miles from City Center.
While I'm not arguing against the "Wobble" explanation, for an extended period AFTER the move from 148 to 119, those stations worked fine, day or
night. It's possible, of course, that the current wobble is different than previously.
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BCSTech
Senior Nomad
Posts: 584
Registered: 4-16-2006
Location: Todos Santos, BCS / Placerville, CA.
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No doubt we're affected by it more here on the "outskirts." I've charted it on a number of our systems hour by hour, good weather/bad weather and it's
consistent and predictable. We never see intermittant drop outs on LA or NY with a 6' antenna, even the mediocre ones made in Guadalarjara.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Jose, Can You See ? LA ?
I received an e-mail response from another friend and They DID lose their LA Broadcast Networks the other evening, BUT the next a.m. they were back
and haven't left again. Another neighbor NEVER lost the channels.
Very Strange. I'll find out what my Network status is Monday Afternoon when I power back up in Baja.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Locals Lost ?
After arriving back this afternoon, I booted up one of my receivers and the L. A. Networks ARE there, BUT when I checked the Transponder info, I
found that they ARE Now on a Spotbeam feed so that would explain those farther South losing those feeds. I'm surprised that we have them here. That
spotbeam must have a larger coverage than the 150 miles. They'll probably go at night since they're on the same one ( 3) that the other locals have
been on.
I suppose that's why the new company providing distant feeds is offering ONLY SF and ATL.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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I jumped through the hoops required and ordered from theses guys...
http://www.mydistantnetworks.com.
Don't know what will happen, but with my 20/22" dish will I see anything in Mulege?....Todos Santos?? Maybe...
What is the next step if I don't?
Also if I pay the $9 to distant networks, can I cancel my locals in San Francisco???
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Al
You left yesterday? He left!!!!!!
[Edited on 12-21-2006 by comitan]
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
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Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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I have Star Choice in Loreto. Great signal. I was told to leave my receiver on all the time, and I won't have a problem with it being turned off
with lack of use. Anyone heard of this one???? (Star Choice uses two heads, apparantly using two sat.'s This leaves me with a 'standard Dish antenna
I'm not using, and a 1 meter antenna I'm not using. All with the LNB's Anyone interested? 1 meter $125.00, and the standard $75.00 They are located
in Loreto. U2U me if your interested.
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