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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Frigatebird
I disagree. How much of the problem you are, is the real issue. If you are here, you are part of it. It is unavoidable.
And solutions? Patience may be in order. |
Solutions? Yes, get your car smogged.
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I've never seen smog in baja. |
Out in the wilderness, no. Near the larger cities, yes.
| Quote: | | There are simply not enough vehicles to cause smog. |
Incorrect. Every improperly tuned vehicle causes smog
| Quote: | | I am no expert on the subject but as I recall air pollutants break down over a short period of time. |
Incorrect. Smog is a contributing factor to "greenhouse gases". Smog doesn't "breakdown over a short period of time". It enters the upper
atmosphere.
| Quote: | | It's when the concentration of pollution grows in a small area over a short period of time that you get smog and the accompanying health issues.
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Only partly true. Smog contributes to larger global issues. It is very shortsighted to think because smog is not in back yard it is not my problem.
Do the responsible thing for your children and grandchildren. Have your car tuned to meet smog emmissions standards.
| Quote: | | It's really unreasonable to expect the people of a sparsely inhabited desert to worry about air pollution. |
Why is it an unreasonable expectation? An improperly tuned car causes smog even in a sparsely inhabited desert.
Do the responsible thing for your children and grandchildren. Have your car tuned to meet smog emmissions standards.
| Quote: | | Eventually air pollution will come to baja though (perhaps La Paz, Ensenada, and the like already have). |
Probably. So let's be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Good Work, Greenies ! Keep Tilting !
There are a lot of windmills still standing.
Given that my individual contribution is insignificant in terms of the overall problem of Industrial Pollution, I'm depending on you to work extra
hard at curbing Air Pollution because I don't intend to do anything the law doesn't require me to do.
I saw the other day on the news that the major cities in China are so heavily polluted that it is difficult seeing tall buildings a short distance
away. To a lesser degree, the same problem exists in Japanese, Indian and (even) Mexican cities, none of which are making any real effort at curbing
polluters.
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oxxo
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
There are a lot of windmills still standing. |
Thanks for the encouragment. We are making progress.
| Quote: | | Given that my individual contribution is insignificant in terms of the overall problem of Industrial Pollution, |
But it is a contribution. Think about the next generation.
| Quote: | | I'm depending on you to work extra hard at curbing Air Pollution |
I'm doing my best.
| Quote: | | because I don't intend to do anything the law doesn't require me to do. |
No you won't BillyBob. You have already posted that you tuned your friends car so that it would pass the smog test one day and then tune so itg that
it will polute the next. You will do the same with your own vehicle. You just don't get it.
Believe it or not, I am a very conservative person, maybe even more conservative than you. I believe that less government is good government, fewer
laws are better laws. I don't want to be forced by government to do anything. When that happens, they often force you to do nonsensical stuff. That
is why I would rather act responsibly and do the responsible thing so that governemnt does not get involved to make me do something. Improved air
quality is not nonsense.
Do the responsible thing and get your car smogged despite the expense and inconvenience. It will reduce air polution to some degree.
| Quote: | | I saw the other day on the news that the major cities in China are so heavily polluted that it is difficult seeing tall buildings a short distance
away. To a lesser degree, the same problem exists in Japanese, Indian and (even) Mexican cities, none of which are making any real effort at curbing
polluters. |
You are unfortunately correct.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
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I really get worried if I can't see what I breath.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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The Slant-Eyed 800 LB Gorilla
Speaking of China (on a slightly tangental issue), it was noted yesterday or Thursday that the Chinese have adopted their own DVD standare (EVD) which
will compete with the current two HD standards currently vying for supremacy. They actually had brought out this standard awhile back, but withdrew
it when the rest of the world refused to go along. NOW, they are bringing it back and decreeing that after a coming date, there
will be NO DVD players built anywhere in China to other standards. If the rest of the world doesn't want to go along, they said that
their domestic market will support their decision. This will, of course put sizeable pressure on World Markets to go along.
This is just the latest example of what we're going to see from China as they flex their huge economic muscles. The day is gone when anyone will be
able to dictate economics or anything else to China. As the filthiest factory polluters in the world, they, more than anyone else, will determine the
future.
Damn that RMN.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lou's comment reminds me of a Wedding I went to in Culver City many, many years back when I was living in Indio. After the ceremony, I was standing
around with the other guys outside the chapel and one remarked what a "Beautiful" day it was and the others agreed, adding their own comments.
Dumbfounded, I looked around at the dense Smog obscuring even the nearby hills completely and I asked "You consider this a Beautiful Day with all of
this Smog" ? "oh, that's just normal, they all said". Well, OK. I guess you just get used to it.
[Edited on 12-9-2006 by MrBillM]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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OXXO---
Actually I agree with most of what you say, just not the intensity of it. I said earlier, when in Mexico, do as the Mexicans do. Living by their
standards is good citizenship. We would be considered arogant to promote a "better" way of life. There are so many things one could do which would
benefit the atmosphere such as, not driving at all. Are you willing to pay that price while living in a society with fume belching busses and
unfiltered refinery stacks? Are you willing to pay that price anywhere?
Probably not.
See OXXO? We all have our line in the sand which we wont cross. You have yours as well albeit in a different place. But, until you reach your line,
you're a polluter as much as anybody.
Or, maybe you dont drive a car and I'm wrong.
In defense of a zero pollution effort, I have heard that birds cant live in Mexico City. Any truth to that?
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oxxo
Banned
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Living by their standards is good citizenship. We would be considered arogant to promote a "better" way of life. |
It is up to the Mexican nationals how they want to run their country. I have no intention of telling Mexicans how to do things but I do intend to
lead by example. We are Americans driving American plated cars. We knew the rules when we bought our US plated cars. We know that a properly tuned
car meeting smog emission standards will reduce the amount of smog in the atmosphere. We Americans can set an example for the rest of the world about
how to clean up the environment. Eventually, Mexico (China, india) will have to do something about their air polution. It would be nice if we
Americans could show them what good global citizens can do if we act responsibly.
I know that we will never reach a level of zero polutants in our lifetime. But the responsible thing to do is get your car smogged despite the
expense and inconvenience.
| Quote: | | There are so many things one could do which would benefit the atmosphere such as, not driving at all. Are you willing to pay that price while living
in a society with fume belching busses and unfiltered refinery stacks? Are you willing to pay that price anywhere? Probably not.
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I have a Tesla all electric car on order......0-60 in 4 seconds, 250 mile range on a charge, zero emissions, about a penny a mile to operate, but not
practical for most Mexican roads. (Yes I do know that there is some polution created in the manufacture of the battery pack and components). This is
a car that is way more expensive than I can afford, but no more expensive than some of the RV rigs I see driving Mexican roads. But I am going to put
my money where my mouth is. Tesla is quite open about their business plan. They say their car is way overpriced for what you get ( (it should really
sell for about half of retail). But they say they are using the excess profits to fund the R/D for a 4 door all electric family sedan priced similar
to a Honda Civic or Toyota Celica but with twice the performance.
Just do the right thing about smogging your car. Every little bit helps. Thanks.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
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OXXO ---
I commend you for your efforts as well as your conviction. Go for it.
What about those birds?
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beercan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 4-3-2005
Location: North of da Bear
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Mood: happy to be in Baja
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No, oxxo you just don't get it !
When Arizona stared smoging autos ,I took my 1964 Chevy Impala SS with HP 300 hp 327, with out any smog gear and it registered so low that they ran me
thru two more times . They couldn't believe that it didn't produce even the minimuns !!!
It was just tuned properly. Ditto the same for my brothers' 70 Duster--340 cu in 300 hp just a PCV valve and no emissions !!
| Quote: | by oxxo boy
No you won't BillyBob. You have already posted that you tuned your friends car so that it would pass the smog test one day and then tune so itg that
it will polute the next. You will do the same with your own vehicle. You just don't get it.
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* libs, all about choice until you choose different
* B. Hussein Obama - an Empty Suit for Empty Minds.
* Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy!
* Arguing facts & truth to libs is like bringing a warm smile to a gun fight.
* Lets win the War on Terror
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BajaBruno
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Posts: 1035
Registered: 9-6-2006
Location: Back in CA
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Mood: Happy
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I have no intention of getting involved in the fight this thread seems to have devolved into, but I will try to answer the original question.
I searched the California Vehicle Code for all instances of "Baja" and there are none. Then, all instances of "Mexico," and there are only two:
neither of them apply to the question of this thread.
I then searched all California codes and got nothing. It may be in a DMV or Bureau of Automotive Repair regulation (different than codes), but I
found other material that seems to indicate that Mexico is not exempt. Anyway, I guess my point is that I looked and I can't help educate us! For
whatever that is worth.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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oxxo
Banned
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Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by beercan
When Arizona stared smoging autos ,I took my 1964 Chevy Impala SS with HP 300 hp 327, with out any smog gear and it registered so low that they ran me
thru two more times . They couldn't believe that it didn't produce even the minimuns !!!
It was just tuned properly. Ditto the same for my brothers' 70 Duster--340 cu in 300 hp just a PCV valve and no emissions !! |
I commend you for having your cars smogged.
Interesting your comment about the 327 smallblock. I have one with "double hump" high performance heads and get it smogged every two years as
required by California and it passes everytime with very low emissions. It is a hobby and I keep it well tuned although I rarely drive it, maybe 50
or 60 miles a year. For some reason the 327 must be a very efficient engine.
Although my 327 engine will soon be "grandfathered" out of the smog requirements, I will continue to take it in every couple of years to have it
tested if for no other reason than to test my tuning skills.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Gringo loco
You want all the vehicles in baja smogged? That's akin to going to Central Australia or Outer Mongolia and trying to convince their people to do the
same. "Yes, but a car in Mongolia produces the same amount of emissions as one in Detroit". You would leave them scratching their heads.
I can just see you tryng to educate the citizens of Santa Rosalia with your 'fine example'. They would listen to you very politely. Once back with
their own friends and family they wouldn't stop laughing about the gringo loco.
As a concerned citizen of global air quality you should worry about the big polluters. Baja's contribution is virtually zilch.
In my opinion people like yourself actually hurt the environmental movement. Rather than zealots it needs members who have common sense and are fair
and balanced in dealing with the issues. And who are realistic. They have too many individuals who are on a missionary quest to remove the last carbon
atom from the atmosphere. The environmentalists need fewer Felix Ungers in their midst.
[Edited on 12-10-2006 by Skipjack Joe]
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
You want all the vehicles in baja smogged? |
You sir, did not read my posts. You have extrapolated your prejudices into something I did not say.
This thread is about an individual who is trying to avoid their responsibilty to have their car smogged. It is an American plated car and subject to
the California smog emission standards. The excuse is that it is too expensive (California does place a maximum limit on the amount of repairs) and
too inconvenient to have it smogged.
I'm saying that if you have an American plated car get it smog tested, wherever you drive. It is the responsible thing to do for future generations -
Americans and Mexicans. Every IMPROPERLY TUNED car emits emissions, even in Baja. It is umimportant what Mexican nationals do or don't do or what
the law is in Mexico. Getting our cars smogged is the responsible thing to do for us Americans driving in Mexico. We smog our cars that we drive in
the U.S., why not smog our U.S. plated cars that we drive in Baja?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18398
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
because I don't intend to do anything the law doesn't require me to do.
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Behaving ethically requires more than following the law. People who are ethical do what is right. People who are unethical only worried about
themselves; hence, only look at the law, and ignore ethics, norms of polite behavior and the golden rule.
By the way, your belching car pollution hurts you and others in the desert, even the most remote desert. Next time you get stuck behind that slow
moving car or truck and you are breathing that belching exhaust, think about the crap swirling thru your lungs.
All of you licensing your car in the US but leaving it in Mexico, you are probably breaking some Mexican law on vehicle import-registration. I find
it disconcerting that many on this board profess to be great lovers of Mexico and feel they are part of the community, but feel that they can pick and
choose which local laws to obey, and use this board to discuss ways to avoid mexican regulations Many of you complain about the illegal immigrants
breaking the law in the US, but you come to this board to discuss how to break the law in Mexico. People who live in glass houses should not throw
stones.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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Goat Cheese
Well, we've pretty well thrashed out our various positions on the whole pollution question with no surprises from either side. El Diablo's Cabron
will continue to spew rhetoric with the hope of antagonizing me. No surprise there, either. Like everything else, no opinions will be changed on
either side. I will continue to live each day according to MY OWN values with no consideration of Goatman's opinion. Cabron
detests my opinions and I dismiss his (hers ?). He/she is appropriately named.
I'm done with this one. Nothing left to be said.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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BillyBob, in the immortal words of Ronald Reagan, "uh.....there you go again."
When you can't come up with a reasonable defense, you resort to personal attacks. Let's debate the issues and not the personalities.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Billy Bob ?
The only Billy Bob I know of is Billy Bob Thornton and he seems to have done OK so I guess being his namesake would be OK, too.
While I appreciate your constructive criticism, there are certain personalities I find so vacuous (especially Goats), that the temptation to demean
their thinking and existence is unavoidable. Besides, what more is there to be said on this subject ? It seems that the issue and the positions are
pretty well-defined. No minds will be changed. Of course, they never are changed here. Unlike the definitive questions and answers which deal with
how to get somewhere, what is going on somewhere or how to deal with specific problems, etc, The rest of this is just recreation having no import
other than distraction.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
I guess being his namesake would be OK, too. |
It's just term of endearment
| Quote: | | there are certain personalities I find so vacuous (especially Goats), that the temptation to demean their thinking and existence is unavoidable.
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I know, the Devil makes you do it, but resist the temptation. Show the stuff you're made of.
| Quote: | | No minds will be changed. Of course, they never are changed here. |
Not so quick there BillyBob. Like you, I am a person of strong convictions but I always try to maintain an open mind. As a result of some
discussions on this Board, I have had to re-think my position on some topics.
| Quote: | | Unlike the definitive questions and answers which deal with how to get somewhere, what is going on somewhere or how to deal with specific problems,
etc, The rest of this is just recreation having no import other than distraction. |
Not necessarily. I believe that Mexicans living or "moving" to the U.S. should follow Americans laws and Americans living and moving to Baja should
follow Mexican laws. A society that picks and choses what laws to obey and what not is a society of anarchy. I believe discussions on this Board
critical of Mexicans immigrating to the US in an illegal manner is understandable, but at the same time discussions on this Board about how Americans
can circumvent both US and Mexican laws (i.e. avoiding your responsibility to smog your US plated car) is disengenious. If I were a Mexican national
reading this Board I would have to wonder about the integrity of Americans. We should lead by example, not digress to the lowest common denominator.
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bajalou
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Location: South of the broder
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The only point I try to make is that there are many places in Calif. and in many other states of the USofA that do NOT require periodic smog checks.
In Calif it is only people living in certain areas that the CAB thinks should be checked. They do not think it is necessary or advisable for vehicles
registered in Imperial and several other counties to spend money on the bi-annual checks. If they thought every vehicle in the state should have
them, I'm sure they would be on a big campaign to get that done, as they they then fulfill their primary purpose - a bigger bureaucracy with more
underlings so the salaries can be increased.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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