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Ski Baja
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Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Seems to me
that yall would be a little more interested in fixing the problems in your own country rather than spending all this time trying to fix Mexicos
problems.
But then, I guess some of us have the need to stick our noses everywhere as long as we can get an argument. Right Steph.
And to answer your question regarding this happening in the U.S., Long Beach had the exact same things going on not too many years ago. They got
caught and punished for it too. Just like the TJ officers would have been if Terwilly went to the Police Station. In Mexico.
Unless of course you believe that all TJ cops are dishonest like Steph. And again, if this is the case, stay home.
It's time for a return to Addams Family values!
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Dave
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How to solve the problem:
A couple of vigilantes should pick up the cops in question, take them for a joy ride and "explain" how not to treat those they are sworn to protect,
with a warning that if this continues, others will meet the same fate. Once this got back to their brother officers you would see a marked decline in
this kind of behavior.
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Anonymous
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JR, what would you prefer us tourist do? Stay out of Mexico altogether, because the local cops won't protect it's dollar spending visitors.
Over recent years this has become the issue with prospective tourist as well as those of the past. I have had mumerous friends who love to go to Baja
in the past. I can not get a single one to travel with me anymore. They say its not save, all the news is bad and they would rather stay and vacation
in this country. If this keeps up, what will happen to Mexico's number ONE industry?
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Ski Baja
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What will happen ?
The Canadians, Japanese, Europeans and well to do Mexicans will continue to take over and develop as they are already doing everywhere in Baja besides
BDLA, Gonzaga Bay and Punta Peque?a where the american enclaves are.
As far as american tourists go, I recommend doing a little bit of research and study before visiting any country. And leaving your attitudes at home
where they belong. These people are very happy and honest. Except in the cities. Just like in the U.S.
It's time for a return to Addams Family values!
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Ski Baja
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My recommendations
Problems I have personally witnessed in Mexico by American tourists are generally attitude related. Many of these problems could be avoided had a
little respect been shown from the americans having the problems.
Knowing the laws of Mexico or any country you are visiting is a wise idea. Most of the problems arise from a law being broken.
Speaking the basics of the language will get you far. And for some of you, "The Basics" doesn't mean talking louder but using please and thank you
instead. In Spanish.
Baja is being populated by the people that don't read the nonsense that the U.S. media loves to write about Mexico. And these people seem to love
it here. So do I.
I doubt there is a place on the planet without some sort of crime but for americans to make such a big deal out of the crimes committed in Mexico
while they are themselves afraid to go out after dark in their own country does tend to bother me. Something about the frying pan calling the kettle
black.
When and if these american people were to set a good example with their own country and families, many more would be a little more respectful and
attentive to their blabber and attempts to americanize the rest of the planet.
The way it stands now, very little respect is being shown to the average american because of what their government is doing. Most Mexican people
have morals enough to show respect but the criminals just don't care about much of anything. Especially dumb gringos.
Bottom line. Learn the language. Learn the laws. Pay attention and show respect. You are gauranteed respect from all that way. Including the
criminals.
It's time for a return to Addams Family values!
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Anonymous
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Don't worry Stephanie! I think one of those Tijuana street corner zebra-striped burros runs more risk of being raped than you.... :moon:
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Baja Red
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Ski Baja/attitudes
I know what you mean about "attitudes". I have "ALWAYS" been polite and courteous to the Federallys, police, and anyone else that I come across while
in Baja. I was taught many years ago to have respect for it's people and their land. I have never been treated badly while in Baja. 20 years ago while
on a trip from Guerro Negro to San Franciscuito (a rough ride at the time!!) we came to a fork in the road and a rancher pointed us in the right
direction. We gave him some sodas and were on our way. Fortunately for us he had pointed us in the right direction. If you go there with a
"holy-er-than-thou" attitude you will get treated differently. If you give attitude, you will get it back. And as far as the Spanish goes....as
long as you can say "taco de pescado and dos cerveza por fa vor" you've got it made!!!  No, really...I am starting a Spanish class this month!! Ski, Happy New Year!! Baja Red
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Ski Baja
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dos cervezas
Assuming that you are ordering that extra cerveza to share with someone, you won't even need the Spanish classes!
It's time for a return to Addams Family values!
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ski Baja
Problems I have personally witnessed in Mexico by American tourists are generally attitude related. Many of these problems could be avoided had a
little respect been shown from the americans having the problems.
Knowing the laws of Mexico or any country you are visiting is a wise idea. Most of the problems arise from a law being broken.
---------------------------------------------------
Bottom line. Learn the language. Learn the laws. Pay attention and show respect. You are gauranteed respect from all that way. Including the
criminals. |
Nonsense! Problems with corrupt cops has nothing to do with attitude. Crooked cops are criminals with badges and do not deserve courtesy OR respect.
They deserve to have their kneecaps busted.
I could care less if criminals respect me. I do however want them to FEAR me.
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Herb
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Location: Torrance, CA
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You name me one city...
| Quote: | Originally posted by Stephanie Jackter
You name me one city in the US or Mexico where tourists are being taken out of the shopping district and being robbed and raped by the very police
that are assigned to protect them.
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Oh, let's see, how about making a list of the 50 largest cities in the US and then the answer would be?
All of them have the same problem! It's just how you define "tourists."
There are corrupt law enforcement officers and corrupt people everywhere. We have a former highway patrol officer serving a life sentence in prison
here in California for raping and killing a woman he pulled over. There is an investigation still going on in Los Angeles (for years now) trying to
catch all of the officers that were involved in a string of police atrocities that included extortion, robbery narcotics trafficking and murder.
The key for corrupt law enforcement anywhere is to choose victims who are likely to have no viable recourse against their assailants. That is why here
in the US the majority of the victims of these crimes are people who are themselves criminals or have commited a crime. They are less likely to come
forward and complain and are unlikely to be believed even if they do. (It was not so very long ago in this country that people would regularly fall
into this category just because of the color of their skin, whether they had commited a crime or not. It still happens, just not regularly)
In Tijuana, it is assumed by the thugs that the foreign tourist, particulaly one who does not seem savvy or speak the language, who is least likely to
have recourse and so becomes the common victim.
The only reason that rape occurs so infrequently among corrupt law enformcement here is because they are well aware of the technology available to
prove their crime beyond a "he said, she said" credibility gap. When they still cross that line, then they dispose of the body like the Highway Patrol
officer I mentioned above.
So, there are bad apples in every profession in every country. What bothers me most, as well as others who have posted on this topic, is how as soon
as any thing like this happens in Mexico we want to get on our high horse and threaten to "show them!" To quote someone here, "Hahahahahaha!"
The fact is, we have. You see, there are some that say we should use our economic leverage and threaten their tourist revenue if they don't clean up
their act. Well, add up all of the money flowing through Tijuana as the result of: Americans buying narcotic drugs in the US that were smuggled
thruogh that region, Americans crossing the border to buy prescription drugs illegaly, underage teenagers coming to Mexico to drink illegally,
Americans of all ages coming to buy all sorts of other contraband, American "Johns" seeking illegal paid affection for one evening and foreigners from
everywhere paying bribes to run their maquiladora plants contrary to the laws and the intent of NAFTA...
It quickly becomes obvious that the revenue from the sale of "trinkets" is not so signficant and I believe the ongoing trend in police corruption in
Tijuana reflects as much. Given the environment and the typical police salary, I believe it is a testament to the inherent decency of Mexican culture
and society as a whole that there are any honest cops at all in Tijuana and that complete and total lawless chaos doesn't rule the streets.
Don't get me wrong. I like to hear warnings, even if they are rumors, just to get a feel for what the word on the street is so I can be more informed
and aware. I am also savvy enough not to totally believe everthing I hear, though. ( I wonder how many of these forced withdrawals are stories by the
aformentioned Johns used to placate suspicious spouses who question, "How in the heck did you drink $300 worth of tequila in one night?)
So, yes, I do believe there is a growing problem in Tijuana as Jesse, who lives there, can attest. But before we start spouting off about how WE ought
to show THEM, lets remember that THEY are not unique and that sometimes WE are part of the problem.
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Anonymous
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I have always maintained a respectful additude in Mexico. For the most part I have had wonderful experiences while visiting there. But every now and
then I run to a local with a rude disposition, such as your's By the way what is you do in Rosarito? Do you own a tourist destination, or work in
one????
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Dave
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Excellent post Herb!
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Ski Baja
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Nonsense
Take it back you big pastrami head. You know what I am saying and it's true. With a little savvy, even the corrupt cops go away. But, the majority of
problems down here don't stem from corrupt cops. They come from drunk gringos.
It's time for a return to Addams Family values!
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Stephanie Jackter
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All your points (except the HaHaHa part, which I still think is crass as Hell), are well taken, Herb
You put up an eloquent argument. Dave's point that a corrupt cop is a corrupt cop and should have his power taken away toot sweet is also well taken.
But back to your argument, we can definitely blame Americans for having helped create an environment that led to this insanity, but to blame the
victims of these attacks is an insult to those who were injured and supports future criminality even further.
And you're unfortunately probably right about future events as well. If the women who were raped are successful in their prosecution of these
rapists, the message to future rapists may well be not to leave any evidence behind next time. - Stephanie
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ski Baja
Take it back you big pastrami head. You know what I am saying and it's true. With a little savvy, even the corrupt cops go away. But, the majority of
problems down here don't stem from corrupt cops. They come from drunk gringos. |
Well, maybe you and I could finesse our way out of a potentially dangerous situation but we're not the typical casual tourists in TJ, and I'm NOT
talking about rude, drunk gringos either, (although that shouldn?t matter).
Regardless of the situation OR one's demeanor, law enforcement officials everywhere have a RESPONSIBILITY to behave in a professional and courteous
manner. There is no excuse for this kind of S**t, in Mexico OR the U.S. Machismo should end when a person puts on a uniform, badge and straps on a
gun. Robbery and rape are NOT acceptable behavior, no matter what the provocation, no matter what the country. U.S. tourists even the rude,
belligerent and/or drunk ones and Mexican citizens have the right to DEMAND proper police behavior.
Now, when are we going to the big city to sip some suds?
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Ski Baja
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I don't know,
I'm startin to get a little nervous about going to Tijuana. But not as nervous as going to L.A. so let's make it pretty soon. Next Tuesday work for
you ?
And I also am a firm believer in vigilante justice when called for. It is still practised here when dealing with real criminals and those that are
considered harmful to society. Rather than the victim of the crime losing on all counts as in the U.S.. Got robbed and killed the verga, now you go
to jail for murder ? Brilliant system they have going up there!
[Edited on 1-7-2004 by Ski Baja]
It's time for a return to Addams Family values!
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Anonymous
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Ski Baja
Certainly the Lord rewards the behavior of the godly, but the behavior of the wicked is self destructive; psalms 1:6
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Ski Baja
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Praise the gourd
It's time for a return to Addams Family values!
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Anonymous
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The Tongue of the Wise treats Knowledge correctly but the mouth of the fool spouts out folly. Proverbs 15:2
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Brian Hadcock
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Registered: 1-8-2004
Location: Deroche, B.C. Canada
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police abuse
This is my first time at this site and I was very entertained by what I have read. Now I have only been going to Mexico ( mainland) and the Baja for
the last 40 years so I am relatively new to this counrty. I have always traveled by road and by doing so I have had the opportunity of meeting many
locals. And I must say a friendlier people I have never found. Now the border Police Forces have been another matter. And I might add I have
crossed into Mexico at many different crossings.
The fact that the Police would accost a tourist or anyone for that matter is unacceptable. Lanuage barrier not with standing. When people in power
abuse that power it affects us all tourists and locals alike. A please don't use the excuse that it happens in the USA and Canada as examples to
nullify what happens in the Baja and Mexico (Mainland). Over the past 40 years I have see an increase in the agressiveness of the Mexican Police, and
quite frankly I find it disturbing. I have like many been ask for money to make a minor problem go away. But you can always ask to be taken to the
Police Station in the hope that everything will be solved. And as I read the postings some people seem to have the idea that alot of the problems
expressed were brought upon themselves. Could be true, to a point, but still no excuse for those you would hope to protect you, to in fact abuse you.
Now getting back to the problems in the USA and Canada with regards to police corruption. I have be a Peace Officer for more years than I care to
remember and the police corruption and abuse of power is almost zero when you take the number of police officer there are. I wish I could say that
about out Mexican counter parts. The only thing I feel we can do about the problem is what I tell folks at home here, be aware of your surroundings
and when in doubt have others near by and travel with others. Also show some empathy for those people that are trusting of others and are let down by
that trust. Everytime this happens another small piece of humanity is sliced away and we are all lesser for it. Well that about does it I have shoot
my bolt. Thanks for the opportunity. And please forgive the spelling errors, I am well educated but still can't spell.
Brian
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