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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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As a person who doesn't care for racing but who enjoys backroad travel, I would like to see racers or sponsors do more to repair roads. I like to
drive from Loreto to Comundu, and the shortest and most beautiful route has some really treacherous spots. I've heard that these places were torn up
by races (bala mil I think) that pass through. As the road is now I think it is unsafe, bad news for me, and for local ranchers up there. This is a
general comment, and probably has nothing to do with the places being discussed here.
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Corky1
Nomad
Posts: 416
Registered: 11-22-2003
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"I asked a question - who is making "lots" of money? Sponsors are involved for sure - they spend it. Rich race teams spend it. Not rich teams spend
it. So do the vounteers and the fans. Come on Ken, you're so smart, answer the question - back up your statement. Who is making lots of money?"
I don't know how much "lots" of money you are thinking about, but I can assure you SCORE doesn't put this race together to break even.
I do agree someone should repair some portions of the race course.
Corky 
 
\"Keep The Rubberside Down\" |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64595
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I must say that Baja had bad roads BEFORE off road racing.
It was Baja's roads that gave birth to off road racing.
That the tradition (history) is still alive in Baja after 40 years of off road racing, it can't be all that bad!
A Tercel was not designed to make the run to San Francisquito, a Tacoma WAS... Go see your Toyota dealer for a trade up!
Collecting more money from 'rich' teams to pay for damage done by all??? You been reading too much Karl Marx, perhaps?
As Bajalero said, it is bad roads that filter out the undesireables!
About the money statement... I have been in an off road pit team, a pit captain, and race car co-driver ('79 1000)... It is done for FUN &
recreation my most... a business for a few... and serious competition on race day by all! Very little money is earned if any... most is spent on a
great vacation in Baja to the benefit of the people of Baja... who love off road racing a LOT more than the people of the U.S.!
The money collected by SCORE for road repair work you can bet is handed over to Mexican officials. If the dinero isn't going to road graders or ejido
personal, don't blame Sal Fish!
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carlo
Newbie
Posts: 16
Registered: 5-1-2007
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The only people that make money on the races are the people of Mexico. Each race brings millions of dollars into Ensenada and the cities along the
path of the course. Mexico isn't like the US. Most businesses are family owned so the money goes to the people, not a corporation.
I’ve been going to Score races in Mexico for years. Every local I’ve ever met enjoy the race and want it in Baja. Not because of the money, but
because they are excited to see a world class sport in their country. They are proud to have it in their back yard and proud to be part of the race.
Regarding the roads and conditions – the people that own or control the property determine if the race is on their road. If they didn’t want the race
to use their road, it wouldn’t be on it.
The 250 was moved from San Felipe to Ensenada due to a land dispute between the local Ejido and the city of San Felipe. It had nothing to do with
Score. The Ejido wouldn’t let the race on their land to get back at the city for siding with El Dorado Ranch in a land dispute. El Dorado Ranch is
expanding on the east side of the highway on land that was said to be reserved for the University of Baja.
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PJC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1670
Registered: 3-28-2003
Location: EVERYWHERE
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Mood: Right
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Well said Carlo!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64595
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Oh, if it wasn't for off road racing in Baja, Doug 'Baja Nomad' would not have discovered the wonders down there... TRICK Racing Fuel sponsoring the
race years ago was how Doug came south! Thanks to Baja racing, we have Baja Nomad Forums!
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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Thanks for the Answer to my Question
Well I got a answer to my question. I got more, alot more!
It seems that $75 is collected by Score from each entrant to turn over to someone in Mexico. The Municipality most likely that the race starts in.
With the idea that it gets to the Ejido's where the course in run. All 500-1000 miles? That's alot of folks.
The point is that Score does in good faith pay dollars to someone for something.
Sorry but $37,500 won't do much road repair even if it all went to that. But that is another thread I'll leave for others.
What I did learn from this thread:
Locals don't use any of the roads the course runs on.
I don't have a clue.
Baja had bad roads before the off road races started 40 years ago.
I might be a closet Communist.
Very little money is made during a Score race, and what money is made is by Mexican's only.
Advice given to me:
Trade in the Tercel I don't own for a Tacoma.
Get off my Veranda and experience the real world.
Leave my Norte American sensiblities at the border.
So I want to thank all you Nomad Race Fans for the heartfelt advice to another inquiring Nomad.
I don't think I will be leaving my Norte American Sensibilities at the border, but I will try to leave my narrow mindedness, my fading type A
personality, and most other obnoxious traits some americans bring to Baja.
The next rainy weekend when I can't get my 4 by 4 down to Baja to explore some out of the way place, I'll dust off an old copy of "On any Sunday" and
a newly acquired DVD of "From Dust to Glory" and sit and watch a Score Race just like I have done for over 30 years. And no David I haven't read Karl
Marx since I was in College over 30 years ago.
By the way, did I mention that I too am a fan of Baja Score Races, and would like them to continue. I guess I wasn't clear enough to some.
Have a nice day, amigos.
Ken
[Edited on 6-6-2007 by tripledigitken]
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Well I got a answer to my question. I got more, alot more!
It seems that $75 is collected by Score from each entrant to turn over to someone in Mexico. The Municipality most likely that the race starts in.
With the idea that it gets to the Ejido's where the course in run. All 500-1000 miles? That's alot of folks.
The point is that Score does in good faith pay dollars to someone for something.
Sorry but $37,500 won't do much road repair even if it all went to that. But that is another thread I'll leave for others.
What I did learn from this thread:
Locals don't use any of the roads the course runs on.
I don't have a clue.
Baja had bad roads before the off road races started 40 years ago.
I might be a closet Communist.
Very little money is made during a Score race, and what money is made is by Mexican's only.
Advice given to me:
Trade in the Tercel I don't own for a Tacoma.
Get off my Veranda and experience the real world.
Leave my Norte American sensiblities at the border.
So I want to thank all you Nomad Race Fans for the heartfelt advice to another inquiring Nomad.
I don't think I will be leaving my Norte American Sensibilities at the border, but I will try to leave my narrow mindedness, my fading type A
personality, and most other obnoxious traits some americans bring to Baja.
The next rainy weekend when I can't get my 4 by 4 down to Baja to explore some out of the way place, I'll dust off an old copy of "On any Sunday" and
a newly acquired DVD of "From Dust to Glory" and sit and watch a Score Race just like I have done for over 30 years. And no David I haven't read Karl
Marx since I was in College over 30 years ago.
By the way, did I mention that I too am a fan of Baja Score Races, and would like them to continue. I guess I wasn't clear enough to some.
Have a nice day, amigos.
Ken
[Edited on 6-6-2007 by tripledigitken] |
Ken, the Karl Marx thing may have been inspired by my presence on this thread-- but I'll let you have the rest.
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Minnow
Banned
Posts: 1110
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Lost Wages
Member Is Offline
Mood: Embarrased Harry Reid is a Nevadan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
Holy chiites Pat, if all I have to do to get strapped into one of those things is rail a little about how destructive and irresponsible all that
racing is than you guys are evil incarnate and should not only repair all the roads but handle all the issues of politics for sale down there,
too.
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I have had to decline rides in Pats car because of not feeling 100% He is a generous person and if you want to ride in his car, he will probably give
you one. He might even loan you a crash helmet.
The hobby not a sport comment was obviously ment to p some folks off, but hell, to me Golf is a hobby. Lets just say, if it is not in the olympics,
or invented by some European, it is a hobby.
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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burro bob
Nomad
Posts: 264
Registered: 3-15-2004
Location: Poblado del Ejido Plan National Agrario
Member Is Offline
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"The money collected by SCORE for road repair work you can bet is handed over to Mexican officials. If the dinero isn't going to road graders or ejido
personal, don't blame Sal Fish!"
David where do you come up with this garbage? If the people of the Ejido knew which agency is receiving the money they wouldn't have as big a problem
with SCORE as they do. But SCORE refuses to tell anyone who this money is paid to. If you can prove this money is going to a Mexican government agency
then please post it here or drop a line to the Ejido.
"The 250 was moved from San Felipe to Ensenada due to a land dispute between the local Ejido and the city of San Felipe. It had nothing to do with
Score. The Ejido wouldn’t let the race on their land to get back at the city for siding with El Dorado Ranch in a land dispute. El Dorado Ranch is
expanding on the east side of the highway on land that was said to be reserved for the University of Baja. "
Carlo, SCORE has been in danger of loosing this race for many years. I was told a month after the 2006 250 that there would not be a race the next
year if Sal did not come to the table with the ejido. Sal lost it all by himself. After 4 years of trying to get him to deal with them directly the
Ejido kicked him out. Draging Pat Butler into the problem was just a way to try and smear him. So yes The Ejido has major problems with Sal Fish and
they very much revolve around road mantainance or lack thereof.
Right now Sal is ignoring the letter that was sent out by the city. He claims that several properties did not refund deposits after this years
cancellation of the 250. He will not enter into any talks about returning to race here until all deposits are refunded. A list of these properties is
being compiled and when we sure it is correct it will be made public.
Tripledigitken, to answer your original question, Yes there should be an effort to regrade some roads after a race. The racers already pay a $75 per
car land use fee and they would like to think that it is being used to repair some of the damage. Unfortunately the fate of the $75 fee is the biggest
secret since the Manhattan Project. That kind of money won't pay for grading the whole course but it would take care of those dirt roads that are used
during the rest of the year. No the Ejido does not expect to get all the land use money, only their share.
Some of you might want to think about why CODE is still allowed to race here but SCORE is not.
burro bob
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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Well, by this time I would imagine that Sal has either seen this post personally or has been told of it by someone in the organization.
It would seem a simple matter for him to post here and clear up the question marks of:
1-how much money SCORE takes in
2-how much they disburse to Mexican officials
3-who those Mexican officials are
Why should the rest of us speculate on this....he can easily answer these questions right here.
Returning 250, 500, 1000 miles of dirt to some kind of "same as it ever was" condition? Now, that hilarious.........
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Have seen some vehicle tracks, ruts etc. through the desert that are clearly visible after several years.  Maybe the racers could hire some of the neighborhood folks to repair the damage, might pay better than picking
strawberries and they wouldn't have to leave home.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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burro bob - I agree with all you have posted on this with one exception. A member of the Ejido board told me in Jan. that they understood Sal paid
the money to Ensenada Tourist Bureau to distribute and it didn't get here. He then said as you mentioned that they wanted him to sit down with them
to get things settled, but this didn't happen.
Here is a translation of a letter from Ejido PNA regarding the race.
"
TRANSLATION OF THE LETTER ISSUED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE EJIDO ON 26 FEBRUARY 2007
THIS DOCUMENT IS INTENDED ONLY TO PROVIDE INFORMATION FOR SPEAKERS OF ENGLISH AND HAS NO OFFICIAL VALIDITY.
NATIONAL AGRICULTURAL PLAN OF MEXICO
PROVISION FOR COMMON LAND *(t.n.)
SAN FELIPE BC
With regard to the position adopted by the Ejido Assembly **(t.n.) on February 25, 2007, whereby said organization refused passage through common land
to participants of the San Felipe 250 Race, the Ejido Commissioner states the following:
First.- As in all previous years, the authorities, organizers and other parties interested in conducting the San Felipe race again left negotiations
with Ejido representatives to the last place in their agenda.
Second.- Following the 2006 race, the company “Score” along with authorities and other organizers agreed to meet two weeks after that event in order
to negotiate terms for the race’s 2007 edition. No such meeting took place.
Third.- In a meeting held at the municipal offices in January this year, Sal Fish and his legal representative, Lic. Oscar Ramos; the Municipal Deputy
for San Felipe, Joaquín Sahagun Delgado; the Deputy Coordinator Ing. Benjamín Castillo; Lic. Rubén de la Peña, Managing Director of “Cotuco” in San
Felipe; Jesús Olmos, Manager of “Épocas de Oro Ranch”; Lic. Roberto Ledon Perezchica, Canaco Delegate for San Felipe; the Tourist Sector’s Rafael
Navarro; Dr. Javier Ayala, President of the Matomi Ejido Commission; Isaac Rodríguez, Commissioner of the Delicias Ejido; the Ejido Plan Nacional
Agrario’s President, Treasurer and Secretary, respectively Ing. Samuel González Lares, Aurelio Torres Flores and Arturo González Martínez, were joined
by representatives of the ejido in question. The Commissioner for the Ejido Plan Nacional Agrario resolved for those who participate in the
organization of the event to draw up a written agreement, whereby one of the organizing parties is designated to assume full responsibility, since not
one of the groups represented at the meeting could admit to holding said commitment at the time.
Fourth.-The original agreement had been that the Ejido would receive the total sum of the "land fee" (++) which brokers pay in order to obtain
authorization to hold events such as this race, an agreement which Mr. Sal Fish made public. The San Felipe 250 race traditionally has over 350
competitors, where the money to be collected in land fees exceeds $21,000 US. Approximately $10,000 US were paid to the Ejido in last year’s event, an
amount that is insufficient to cover road damage caused by the race. In terms of the land fee that is payable to Ejido tenants under Mexican law for
an activity of this kind, the complete sum has never been received by them, despite the fact that on this specific occasion a direct commitment was
made by Mr. Sal Fish, who, with funds from the Municipal Deputy and Canaco, was only able to provide the Ejdo Assembly with $8,000 US. To date, the
reasons that led Mr. Sal Fish to breach the agreement are unbeknown to this office as they are to the respective Ejido tenants.
Fifth.- In view of the above, the ensuing reaction by Ejido tenants should be seen as a result of the illogical and inappropriate offer made by the
Municipal Deputy of San Felipe in conjunction with Canaco representatives. No blame can therefore be placed on Ejido members for faults committed by
the event’s organizers, the latter’s equivocal proposal, the unrest their attitude provoked among the Ejido community and the disappointment these
organizers evidently brought to local business.
San Felipe, Baja California, February 26, 2007
SINCERELY
ING.SAMUEL GONZÁLEZ LARES
President of the Ejido Commission
Ejido Plan Nacional Agrario
(National Agricultural Plan of Mexico)
* Translator’s note: “Ejido” is the name given to ‘common land’ in Spanish, hence translation of title - “Ejido Plan Nacional Agrario”; ** Common Land
Tenants’ Assembly.
++ Editor's note: Each entrant in the Baja 250 race is required to pay a "land fee" of $75 US to be used to repair damage caused as a result of the
running of this race across public and private lands.
?????
Follows is my edit.
I don't think Score allows you to race unless you've paid all your fees "up front".
[Edited on 6-7-2007 by bajalou]
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17599
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Minnow
| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
The hobby not a sport comment was obviously ment to p some folks off, but hell, to me Golf is a hobby. Lets just say, if it is not in the olympics,
or invented by some European, it is a hobby. |
Baseball, golf, poker, motor cars and video games are not sports. They are hand-eye coordination games. I'm not saying games aren't fun, they
certainly are a hoot, I'm simply thinking that motor racers are delusional to think they are participating in a sport. If you don't need
cardio-vascular fitness and you can do it well with a beer belly, it is not a sport. |
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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From Wikipedia definition of sport-
"Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Used by itself, sports commonly refer to
activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determiner of the outcome (winning or losing), but the term is
also used to include activities such as mind sports and motor sports where mental acuity or equipment quality are major factors. Sports are used as
entertainment for the player and the viewer. It has also been proven by experiments that daily exercise increases mental strength and power to study"
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Roberto,
I have gotten your answer to my question
in spite of my cluelessness.
By the way do you feel good insulting someone who is asking a fair question?
Ken |
What was the insult - I was just trying to get an answer. Unless my OPINION that you have an agenda is an insult.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Corky1
"I asked a question - who is making "lots" of money? Sponsors are involved for sure - they spend it. Rich race teams spend it. Not rich teams spend
it. So do the vounteers and the fans. Come on Ken, you're so smart, answer the question - back up your statement. Who is making lots of money?"
I don't know how much "lots" of money you are thinking about, but I can assure you SCORE doesn't put this race together to break even.
I do agree someone should repair some portions of the race course.
Corky
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No, they're not in it to break even - but Sal Fish is no a millionaire - which he should be by now if the races make lots of money for SCORE.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by carlo
The only people that make money on the races are the people of Mexico. Each race brings millions of dollars into Ensenada and the cities along the
path of the course. Mexico isn't like the US. Most businesses are family owned so the money goes to the people, not a corporation.
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Exactly what I hoped Ken would realize. Of course the sponsors get publicity, and through that possible increased sales and eventually, possibly, some
income. But the folks who make the money are, as Carlo says, down south for the most part.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
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Baja SCORE racing is verrrrry cool. It's a good thing!!
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leadmoto
Junior Nomad
Posts: 64
Registered: 3-2-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Froggy
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Some of these roads exist because of SCORE.
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