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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bahiamia
If your friend was only going to Ensenada and for less than 72 hours, then why did he want to apply for an FMT? Those who need an FMT for their
travels, should get one at a point of entry.
[Edited on 7-20-2007 by bahiamia] |
He's going south.
It's not 72 hours anymore. It's one week. Look it up while you're looking everything else you don't know.
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bahiamia
Nomad
Posts: 143
Registered: 12-16-2004
Location: Bahia de los Angeles
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Ok, then he's not traveling only within the "Free Zone". Just merely passing through the free zone doesn't mean that you don't need an FMT. If
you're driving a vehicle in Mexico it is strongly suggested you get FMT even if your actual travel destinations don't require them. That's incase you
are in an accident or such. Don't appreciate the personal slam by the way. I don't look things up...I pass along things from personal experience.
I was there when it occured to a friend so I felt I should pass that along.
I will, the next time I am Ensenada, go and talk with the officals there and hopefully they can give me some documentation on their policies to get it
right from the horse's mouth that will clear up any confusion or speculation.
[Edited on 7-20-2007 by bahiamia]
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Dennis is making a point.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
They're still a bunch of thieving, opportunists who work with the approval of the government.
Oh yeah....They are the government.
Tell you what gull........ Don't ever apologize to me for these A-hole's crap. When they do it to your brother, they do it to you, if you can
understand that concept..... We're the one's with the SELF-RESPECT look on our faces. |
Whoa, Dennis. What you're suggesting might be lost on this crowd. Self-respect? Right and wrong? 20th century corruption?
I recognize the point Dennis is making but I, too, like others here, won't get worked up. If I was at the effect of corruption, say, a shake-down,
then I might start sqawking. In MX, they get you coming and going.
Also, on a bigger level, I doubt any Mexicans will understand the point being made. The logic might be: well, for 50 pesos, he didn't have to go
back to the border, no? Or, the 50 pesos put food on the table for the FM clerk who had the office in the closet.
There is a higher level, by Northern standards, being violated here. On the other hand, this is MX and that's how things are being done today.
Maybe not tomorrow, but every now and then, someone is singled out.
The principle is noted here, Dennis, and sometimes it's good to let off steam.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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Sorry didn't realize it was a tourism visa and not an FM. What I described was mexican passport and other mexico related documents. I know its wrong
but if you're stuck between a rock and a hard place...50 pesos vs a 3 hour round trip drive...I'd pay the five bucks just out of convienence, two
packs of cigarettes, a six pack, two cappuccinos to go...five bucks no es mucho.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bahiamia
I will, the next time I am Ensenada, go and talk with the officals there and hopefully they can give me some documentation on their policies to get it
right from the horse's mouth that will clear up any confusion or speculation.
[Edited on 7-20-2007 by bahiamia] |
Yeah....HAHAHAHAHA.. you do..HAHAHAHAHA..that.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grover
| Quote: | | Originally posted by DENNIS... Is self respect the trade-off for dealing with the government?... |
 You're asking like you don't know.
He should have stood on principle and returned to Tijuana. Would've cost him another 20 bucks in gas, tolls, vehicle wear, time... Maybe 20
wouldn't quite cover it. 
You're complaining about something I think one of the most endearing things about Mexico: the little guy still has access to influence. And at a
downright reasonable cost. |
No. You don't get it. Neither does Pam. Had I been there with him, I would have asked the officer to call the main office in Tijuana for
clarification. He wouldn't so but, I would have insisted. I would also insist on speaking to his superior on site. He would give me his name and I
would note the time of day with his pen and paper. I would do this in a calm manner. He would issue the document as is his job and there would be no
bribery, mordida or nonsense involved.
The little xxxxxxxx only has the power that we give him.
None from me........You give him all he needs.
[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A]
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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I'm sorry Dennis but the immigration official has the power.....................................If you think he doesn't just butt heads and see where
you end up.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Same thing happened to my brother, told we had to go back to point of entry at TJ...but he said we could pay the fine there and get one too....so the
lady in the broom closed wrote up the "ticket" sighting the infraction and we paid the 5 bucks happy not to have to go back as Guerrero Negro bank
would have been closed when we got there too....so as I said, they were happy to pay the fine for ignorance and be on our way!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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That's OK, comitan. Just bend over in the line up with the rest of'em, pants down to the ankles and head against the wall and tell them how much you
love Mexico. When you look at yourself in the mirror from that time on, you can tell yourself, " They had the power so, it was worth it. "
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Dennis
I think you have gone a Little overboard, a lot of us have said its better to be HUMBLE when dealing with immigration, I can tell you first hand it
works I have not furnished forms and they have made them out for me, they don't do that for everyone. Also I have had them show up at my house for
mistakes I have made in forms and helped me correct them. I am proud that I can be a little humble and gain respect!
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bajatastic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
That's OK, comitan. Just bend over in the line up with the rest of'em, pants down to the ankles and head against the wall and tell them how much you
love Mexico. When you look at yourself in the mirror from that time on, you can tell yourself, " They had the power so, it was worth it. "
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Here you are "bending over" in the stolen car/dog thread...
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I also take my dog everywhere I go but, she wouldn't be a deterrent. From now on, I'll pay the parking lot guards [ I guess that's what they are
] to stand by my truck while I'm in the store. I don't care what it will cost, two or three bucks I figure. I couldn't stand to go through what
that Rosarito couple is going through now. |
The fact of the matter is... Mexico is a foreign country. As a foreign country it has different customs, norms, and ways of doing things. If you
don't like it, I suggest you either learn to deal with it or stay in the USA. You can always visit France instead of Mexico if you can't accept the
culture as it is in Mexico.
Do I pay the parking attendant a few pesos when I park in Mexcio? Sure I do. Do I pay anyone in the USA? No. Do I ask the see my hotel room first
in Mexico? Yep; but, in the USA I just take the room I get. I drink the tap water in the USA and flush my TP here too. Get the picture? Welcome to
Mexico, it's not the USA.
Justified or not, to avoid backtracking to the place I should have gotten my FMT in the first place, I'd pay my $5 and be wiser the second time. I
suggest the only real course of action is to take it as a lesson learned and get your FMT at the border next time.
It's not even worth the time to wig out about it. I am not sure why you are so insistent as to attack people that follow the rules and have learned
to accept the culture in Mexico the way that it is. I thank you for the heads up about the office in Ensenada; but, your attacks on the people here
that think different than you are ridiculous.
Don't want to accept the Mexican culture for what it is? Fine. Go ahead and flush all the TP you want, just see what you get back in return.
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Bedman
Senior Nomad
Posts: 523
Registered: 9-4-2002
Location: Orange County, CA.
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Mango, you may be fairly new here, but I like your style. Beat me to the punch on Dennis. You can ride with me anytime.
Grover, dumb you are not. Being able to see the BIG picture and the little details is Ohhh so important.
Gull,
First
Second
Third
Fourth
Fifth
Too Funny!!
Mia, a wise and sage individual that has lived in Baja a life time and has a plethora of penninsular information (I made that word up) and a Great
website too.
Roberto, Your a Class act too. (inside joke folks, sorry)
AND THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN IS......
daneab, .......your just in over your head. You might not want to throw gas on a fire when you don't know how to turn on the water.
Dennis, you seem to have the ability to take a crap and get it all over yourself.
Bedman
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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I am glad to be clear about this issue. We purchased fishing licenses in Ensenada but the other papers at the border. Since Ensenada is the last town
in the "Free Zone" I might have made the mistake of trying to kill two birds with one stone by doing it all in Ensenada. To my way of thinking, that
would make sense. However, my way of thinking is not Mexican.
It is not clear to me that what was paid was a bribe. It may have been a fee for a service provided to those who through ignorance did not get their
papers where they should have gotten them. I have just learned from Mango that I have been blithely walking past the guy who has been watching my
vehicle for me in the parking lot of the grocery stores without giving him a tip. I routinely tip the bag boy/girl in the USofA who carries my bags to
my car. Da......just out of touch in some ways I guess. They have all been very polite to me, I must exude ignorance. I can now see the shaking heads
as I drive away in my palacial motor home that they have been watching while I was in the store. We live and hopefully learn I guess.
If it is indeed Mordida, then what's new? Mordida is not dead and one has to find ways to deal with it. It is dying but it ain't dead yet. We all are
in the same boat in regard to it. This system evolved over millennia to deal with the economics of being an oppressed people. A little cubby hole,
closet or niche was the only way to survive and that then became the inherited right of patrimony for the "position" held. To the average Mexican,
this system is as much a part of life as throwing the paper into the can beside the toilet. Most third world countries are like this. Read VS Naipol
on his trip to India. a nation of little niches.
I look forward to the time, though I doubt it will be in my life time, when Mexico no longer is held in the grip of the Black Hand. As long as poverty
exists to the level that it does, then it will continue to flourish.
As to your indignation and wish for others to share that with you. I doubt that you will get many on board that train. There is a necessary adaptation
that one must make to living in a foreign country and that adaptation takes time and is often frustrating to the point of madness. We all at some time
have raged against the system. It is probably good to go through that catharsis in order to purge our system of its frustration. There are many Norte
Americano’s that I have met in Mexico who make this sort of outrage their reason de arte. This colors all of their experience as they daily arm
themselves against the inevitable incompetence, greed, sloth, chinga and graft that they will run into on any day in Mexico. Eric Berne, M.D.
described the game as "Ain't it Awful" and it is easy to play. A place like Mexico offers endless opportunity. I too have played it. I noticed however
that that by playing that particular game I had to hold onto anger and indignation in order to play. This use of my time, energy and emotions
interfered with my appreciation, wonder and joy. I have read many of your posts and have seen your own sensitivity, joy and wonder. We all have been
frustrated by these sorts of experiences. I think others on this post have been trying to share with you their way of dealing with the issues you have
addressed. There is much wisdom here if we don’t talk past each other.
I wrote on another forum a description of the process of obtaining necessary permits in Mexico. I recommended that they purchase a copy of "There is a
Word for It in Mexico" and to read it while standing in line to see if they could identify various transactions that were occurring in front of them.
I made this suggestion as it provides another way to structure time while engaged in processes and procedures that would seem to our Norte mind could
be handled in milliseconds while we while away hours in multiple lines to accomplish a single task.
Iflyfish
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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What irony. What would other Nomads think???
As much noise that is heard from as many Nomads it amazes me how easy it has become for some to cave. I got lamblasted a while back for exactly what
some here talk about.
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=18168#pid1570...
It was a spontaneous decision based on my time vs ?? or just 20 bucks, or go to the police station and take my chances..
Yes , as an American I am part of the problem. After all it does take two to tango when it comes to mordida when you get pulled over or are subject
to pay diferent fees.
Look, if you get the feeling you're getting ripped off, and not just paying a familiar regular token duty then hell yes I understand Dennis. I'd be
peeed as well. We need consistency damn it!
btw, they have been pulling fast ones there on unsuspecting visitors for a long time. The broom closet thing is new.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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bahiamia
Nomad
Posts: 143
Registered: 12-16-2004
Location: Bahia de los Angeles
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The requirement is now that alll FMT's need to be obtained at a border crossing. If you don't do it, you are in violation of that requirement. Yes,
there is a fee to process it in Ensenada since by their regulations you should have already obtained one before you got there. That is how they
explained it to us when it happened to a friend.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
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Mood: High
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Yeah Gull..........
Thats the point. He got caught up in an old bribe structure which I thought belonged to the 20th century.
I guess it shows that nothing in this regard has changed. They're still a bunch of thieving, opportunists who work with the approval of the
government.
Oh yeah....They are the government.
Tell you what gull........ Don't ever apologize to me for these xxxxxxx crap. When they do it to your brother, they do it to you, if you can
understand that concept. Pull your head out of your digestive track and join us.
We're the one's with the SELF-RESPECT look on our faces.
[Edited on 7-20-2007 by Hose A] |
Dennis,
Your penchant for exaggeration in this and other "issues" in Baja are well established. You have insulted a number of people posting on this string.
If you are so "in" to doing the right thing all the time - what gives you the right to attack people with a different viewpoint. At a minimum, you
owe Mia an apology, a public one.
The line for the hypocrits starts over by the little broom closet. To get out of line costs $4.63.
Your actions on this string got you censored by big brother. Congrats on stepping over that line, as well.
If you don't like the "oppressive" nature of the Mexican government asking for visitors following the established visa procedures by getting their
papers at the border, move to a perfect country of your choice. That will save you the stress of ranting and raging on this site.
I did not apologize for the activity you so incompetantly described. I do not have a brother. I do not need amateur tutorials on Baja as I have been
active in the area since 1969 and have forgotten more than you will ever learn. I do not want to join "us" since it looks like your "us" is "you,
only". If your face had Self Respect on it, could there be room for "respect for others"? Are you getting the message?
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Gull, Your writing as always a pleasure to read. But me tinkx that DENNIS got his desired response. I know he would love dealing with PROFEPA and
their Environmental N-zis.
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latortugaguera
Banned
Posts: 42
Registered: 10-20-2005
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I made the same mistake the first time I came to Baja. The immigration official was wonderful; he offered to pay for the fine. What better service
than that.
I love Mexico
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: High
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
Gull, Your writing as always a pleasure to read. But me tinkx that DENNIS got his desired response. I know he would love dealing with PROFEPA and
their Environmental N-zis. |
Thanks Russ, but something tells me with the 'tude expressed, Dennis is going to get what he "deserves" if he hasn't already at various times in his
life.
Ya gotta luv that in another posting of his, Dennis espouses paying for parking when there is no requirement. Where is the righteous indignation at
having to pay to secure the "goodwill" of a local citizen to watch a car? As I wrote before about the separation of a fool and his money...
It takes a lot of stupid moves or a very small brain to have a chip on one's shoulder the size that would catapult this spew over a legitimate
exercise of a Government rule, specially one that accommodates the visiting "ignorant" American scofflaw.
The Mex Government should insist on sending "buddy" from Ensenada to the SY crossing to get his papers. Otherwise, at GN he could be told to turn
around and go to SY. I think it is very accommodating that the Mex Gov allows such a second chance to get a simple thing done.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
Dennis
I think you have gone a Little overboard, a lot of us have said its better to be HUMBLE when dealing with immigration, I can tell you first hand it
works I have not furnished forms and they have made them out for me, they don't do that for everyone. Also I have had them show up at my house for
mistakes I have made in forms and helped me correct them. I am proud that I can be a little humble and gain respect! |
A little humble goes a long way... in dealing with life  CaboRon
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