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Sharksbaja
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Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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I applaud thee!
Nice to I know I'm in good company with this topic. Thanks for havin' the guts to voice opposition to this big-money big-head enterprise. There is
more going on than you can imagine. Moreover, the long-liners are wreaking havoc with the Norma laws. Although I would like to see a moratorium on ALL
billfishing for some period of time, I fear the backlash could/would be twofold. First, the revenues and attraction(not that I care, it might be good)
would take a hit.
Second, wherever there is a void or vacuum, the opportunist will fill it.
These animals are to be acknowledged. They represent an upper hierarchy in the food chain. It is only greed and self gratification that drives
big-game hunters. The Worlds' best (animals)are at stake all over the planet. She can't give up a whole lot before the scales of nature tip greatly.
We already understand the ramifications. Money and greed and narcissium drive the industry. You know ....like hunting other horn-ed creatures.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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flyfishinPam
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Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Jorge
However, could you please release me before you drag me up over the rail, bruise me, scrape me, suffocate me and dump me back into the frigging water
to die!
Keep em in the water, light em up, let em go. I'll duck now. |
That image is from my website and I happened to be on the boat and took the picture. when Captain eulogio was landing the fish he was saying
repededly "I´m sorry" i have this on video he´s a sweetheart and a great captain. this fish was out of the water for less than two minutes then
revived at the side of the boat for about 10 minutes before he struggled free. he was a strong fish when he swam away. It was beautiful.
i realize that our release policy is a "drop in the bucket" and our adherence to limits or less than limits or all out release of catch is not going
to ake a difference in the fish populations of TODAY but I believe it will make a difference for TOMORROW because we are setting an example that is
being well received and noticed. i just LOVE IT when I hear captains complain of others who take too many, take juvenile fish, take billfish, large
roosters and sharks. We have to remember that the commercials who prevailed on the passing of NOM 029 use our over limits, dead billfish, etc photos
as ammunition for their arguments and they present them very effectively. so in this instance we are our own enemies and we must realize this.
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Cypress
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Whether it's a commercial boat taking a ton or 10 sports boats taking a ton, the result is the same. The commercial boats usually do more damage if by-catch is factored in.
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backninedan
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Cypress, long liners are putting one and a half MILLION hooks in the water each day. There is no way in hell that sport boats come close to this.
True that a ton is a ton, but there is just no comparison between the two types of fishing.
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Cardon Man
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Location: Thetis Bank
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Marlin on the "Fly Pole"
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Don Jorge,
Flyfishing for marlin or tuna is really tough on the fish. The equipment (no matter what wt rod) just isn't strong enough to do it quickly enough.
These fish come up exhausted. |
Hola Skipjack,
I disagree with your statement regarding fly tackle. Todays fly rods and reels are very capable of landing your typical Baja striped marlin every bit
as quick as conventional tackle. The x-factor is the skill of the fly angler. It takes some experience to learn how to put sufficient pressure on a
big fish with a fly rod. A skilled blue water fly angler, like Grant Hartman in the photo you commented on, can bring a marlin to the boat very
quickly indeed. However, there are not many anglers that have that level of experience. Furthermore, most fly anglers are way too hung up on IGFA
standards. IGFA places arbitrary guide lines on what is and isn't "legal" in fly fishing. This means most anglers fish no more than 20lb class tippet
which leads to fish being played way to softly and for too long in my opinion. In synopsis, the fly tackle is certainly up to the task...it's limited
fish fighting skills and light tippet that lead to worn out fish.
Regarding the "hero shots'...I agree that hauling a billfish over the gunnel can't possibly be good for the fish. I have no idea what the mortality
rate is...perhaps those stats exist somewhere. Those in the sport fishing business are in a tough spot. Clients pay big bucks to fish and those photos
are part of what they pay for in their opinion. When I worked as a mate in Central America my skipper would allow only one such photo per day. I think
that was a step in the right direction at least.
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
i realize that our release policy is a "drop in the bucket" and our adherence to limits or less than limits or all out release of catch is not going
to ake a difference in the fish populations of TODAY but I believe it will make a difference for TOMORROW because we are setting an example that is
being well received and noticed. i just LOVE IT when I hear captains complain of others who take too many, take juvenile fish, take billfish, large
roosters and sharks. |
I hope you are right, Pam. Nothing would please me more than to be wrong on this one, but I am skeptical. I can imagine the pleasure that hearing
those comments from the Mexican captains gives you.
Keep up the good work.
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Skipjack Joe
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Cardon Man,
I thought I read that that was his first fish on a flyrod. Maybe I misread that.
Regarding the rest of your observations. Are you implying that a fish caught on a flyrod can be brought in as fast as conventional tackle? Probably
not. I think you're saying that it can be brought fast enough to insure a healthy release based on an anglers skills. Can't argue with that. I'm just
saying what I've witnessed from personal experience. Would you agree that few such anglers exist that are either properly equiped or have the skills
to bring a tuna in quickly.
I took several groups of fly anglers down to the Punta Arena resort in the late 90's several times (groups of 20 people). That's very common with fly
clubs in california, arizona, and nevada. We pursued mainly dorado and yellowfin tuna. There was no problem with dorado. They fight quickly and come
in. But tuna. They sound and circle below using their broadside as leverage and are very hard to bring in. What I saw was that by the time these fish
are at the surface they virtually can't move a fin. To make matters worse, the flyrod doesn't allow you to bring the fish in to the fish easily
without 'high sticking', which easily snaps a rod into three. There are always people who break rods on each trip due to high sticking. So, to avoid
breaking the rod you need to wear the fish even further. The 10-15 lb tuna were usually landed in 15 minutes and I felt they were released in good
condition. But a 25-30 lb tuna took 45 min to an hour and had virtually no chance.
The problem with high sticking in a panga is that you just can't walk back from the rail far enough to allow the guide to grab the leader or use the
gaff. They sometimes try to help by grabing the tip of the rod but that can easily lead to breakage.
So if you know a method for quickly landing a hot fish with a flyrod in a panga then I would certainly be interested in hearing about it. As far as
shortening the fight by reducing the arc of the rod and fighting it more from the butt - I am familiar with that. On the other hand, why fish with a
flyrod if you're not using it fully and virtually fighting the fish off the reel. I guess I just don't think the flyrod is the proper tool for some
gamefish.
I would like to hear your opinion on this.
You might enjoy this. Back when Los Muertos was still called that. The pictures are small by today's standards, however.
http://www.peninsulaflyfishers.org/Fishing_Tales/eastCapeBajaAlbum/baja_fishout.html
[Edited on 9-18-2007 by Skipjack Joe]
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Cypress
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Location: on the bayou
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backninedan Good point. Agree with you.
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honda tom
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Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: middle calif
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ok, so the word for all of you fisherman bashers is ignorant. Untill you can post your thoughts in spanish, on a board that mexican fisherman will
read, you should stop wasting your breath.
question..... what exactly happened on the boat that brought in that small marlin? Oh thats right... none of you know! Theres a good chance
that it died if the fisherman was using light tackel, like some kind of fly rod. Heavy tackel could have brought a small fish like this in quick,
increasing its odds for a live release.
But for all of you that feel so strong about this "injustice", on your next trip to baja. go down to the boat ramp and tell those fellas with the
nets and traps how you feel.
It is sooooo funny to read the post of all of you that claim to love baja sooooo much..... but choose to blame all the wrong in baja on gringos,
especially those gringos that truly love baja.
You ignorant ones are vacationing and living amongst ones that will rape the ocean and the land for what they need on that day. and you.... such
the smart one, will get all over somebody for photographing a fish on the small side of normal.
me. i would have done whatever i could to put that one back. but sometimes it doesnt work out.
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Roberto
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I guess it's time to go home. The genius has spoken. 
Nothing else left to say after THAT piece of wisdom.
[Edited on 9-19-2007 by Roberto]
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Don Alley
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Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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Sometimes a fish can't be released alive. Maybe because of the tackle used, maybe because of a lack of skill or experience, maybe because someone is
too quick to pronounce the fish unreleasable, maybe because of where it is hooked, or maybe just bad luck.
I've had fish die on me that I would have prefered to release alive.
But a picture is worth a thousand words, and a dead billfish or roosterfish hanging from a resort's fish gallows, broadcast on fishing sites, tells
the wrong story. Regardless of how the fish died. JMO.
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honda tom
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glad i could clear it up for you.
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Sharksbaja
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Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Hanging billfish suck
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
But a picture is worth a thousand words, and a dead billfish or roosterfish hanging from a resort's fish gallows, broadcast on fishing sites, tells
the wrong story. Regardless of how the fish died. JMO. |
I suppose pictures can be subjective too. What you, I and others see is a travesty but many others would say "it's a beauty!" Hmmm"beautiful
dead fish".....just doesn't sound right.
I doubt there is much info on commercial bycatch of billfish. Logic would say that these "incidental" catches reap a bigger profit. Someone is buying
that stuff. We have an active monitoring system in place and hefty punishment for lawbreakers. In Mexico, the seizure and confiscation by the Navy
amounts to token busts. It can't be that hard to figure out where these boats off-load.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Osprey
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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When I vacationed at fishing resorts in Baja California I would make sure I hung around the photo gantry, get my picture taken with somebody else's
fish hanging up there. The fishermen didn't care, the resorts didn't care and I got my surprise prize back home. I would usually do that the first
day, then I could release everything with a big smile on my face for the rest of the week.
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honda tom
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trying to tie a traditional sporting custom (the hanging and photographing of the big one), and unreasonable or irresponsible fishing practices, is
way off mark.
sportsman are not the problem! If you dont like to hang fish thats fine, but you are confusing the issue if you try to tie these photos to a
decline in fish in the gulf of california.
want to read something crazy?
Google... "the midriff island shark disaster" heres the problem.
my dad turns 75 this year, and has yet to land a marlin. when he does I could use some help for that father son photo.
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Cardon Man
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Hey there Skpjack joe...
Regarding that photo, the guy with the fly rod is a client who did the catching. The other guy is Grant Hartman. Without a doubt one of the most
skilled all around anglers you can find, conventional or fly tackle. With his level of experience with a fly rod I would say yes, he can land a
striper as fast as most could with conventional tackle. This is a function of well honed skills and good boat handling by the captain. The
combination allows for a fast, healthy release. I have seen many sailfish landed in under 10 minutes and striped marlin in under 15. However, I do
agree that most fly anglers can't pull that off. That takes a lot of experience.
Now, if you fish heavier tippet than IGFA standard 20lb the speed of release goes up big time in my experience. You can put major heat on a big fish
with 30lb tippet. Also, IGFA fly leaders have no more than 12" of 100lb bite tippet. It's tough to leader a billfish with only 12" of 100lb to grab.
Either you break the fish off...or wear it down until it's easy to subdue boat side. This is partly why i feel that IGFA is crap.
With regards to tuna....They are brutal to land on the fly. Period. I don't think one should get involved with catching and releasing them. Catch and
kill your limit and call it good. Furthermore, who in their right mind wants to catch more than two 25lb or 30lb tuna on a fly in the same session?
That's just self abuse! ha ha.
Let's face it...fishing is a blood sport. If one doesn't want to injure fish then catch your limit and quit. And in the case of billfish, take every
measure possible to learn how to land them fast and handle them carefully. If this means fishing heavier/longer leader than IGFA so be it.
The heavier/longer leader helps big time in the landing process from a panga. with 30lb it's easier for the skipper or mate to hand line the fish in
once it's close enough to the boat. Thereby sparing the high sticking and broken rods.
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
Hey there Skpjack joe...
Furthermore, who in their right mind wants to catch more than two 25lb or 30lb tuna on a fly in the same session? That's just self abuse! ha ha.
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You're right, it's abuse on both ends of the line. I did that once and felt sick the rest of the day. Didn't want to pick up a rod. Just laid around
kind of dazed.
My partner blew his fly reel out on a tuna. The line compressiion was just too much for the reel. Most guys and ladies would land one tuna and tell
the guide to fish dorado, roosterfish, or toro (just as tough as tuna, only smaller) the rest of the week.
I've personally never caught marlin on a fly but from those I caught on conventional gear I thought it would be just as hard. Sounds as though I may
have been wrong, though.
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Hook
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Honda Tom, I see your point on this, but it's like ignoring small things like switching out incandescent lights for fluorescents to reduce our oil
dependence. Yeah, Big Industry is more responsible for consumption, but with a finite resource, you do what you can do.
Besides, with the way longlining is continuing, you have to assume an increasingly shrinking pool of marlin. The effects of the sportfisherman becomes
a more significant impact on the marlin left over.........no matter who is most to blame for the decline.
Take it from those of us who have hung marlin and released them as well............the feeling of releasing these magnificent creatures is far
superior.
Maybe your pops will understand this and embrace it..........
BTW, to David K and others, you no longer need to have the carcass to have a mount made.
Yeah, it's not the same fish...........
The real one is still swimming and renewing the resource.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
BTW, to David K and others, you no longer need to have the carcass to have a mount made.
Yeah, it's not the same fish...........
The real one is still swimming and renewing the resource. |
Or, you can buy a full size Marlin pillow from Cabela's for around twenty bucks. It looks life-like....for a pillow. And, just think.......you
don't even have to tear it's guts out and bring it back from the brink of death.
Cabela's.com
They have other fish pillows as well.
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Cypress
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Hook and DENNIS Keep on keeping on, there's a world full of folks that agree with you.
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