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Stephanie Jackter
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| Quote: | Originally posted by academicanarchist
The Baegert account says that it did take place, and he was the guy on the spot writing about it. Unfortunately, as David points out, the natives are
gone, and they did not leave their version of things for us. |
History gets written by the most literate, not necessarily the most trustworthy or least prejudiced. Ethnocentric bias always has to be looked at as
THE grain of salt in any account of Indian Tribes by so called "civilized" people.
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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academicanarchist
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Second Harvest
The problem I have with that position is that, given their clear bias towards the natives to begin with and the generalized perception that they were
inferior savages, there was no need to invent stories such as the second harvest. Moreover, there are descriptions of the second harvest from several
Jesuits, which makes me think that it was not made up. It is the task of the ethnohistorian to evaluate the reliability of sources, and given the
context of the situation and the mind set of the Jesuits, I do not believe they made it up, or had a reason to do so. I would like to know the source
that claimed that there was no second harvest, and the basis for the claim.
[Edited on 3-21-2004 by academicanarchist]
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academicanarchist
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Perspectives
Many years ago I was giving a talk at a library in Santa Cruz about Santa Cruz mission. I was making reference to one of the handful of oral history
accounts recorded in the 1870s of a former mission resident, who discussed the murder of a Franciscan. There are many details in the account that
confirm, in my mind, its accuracy, details corroborated by contemporary Spanish documents. The account described how, following the murder of the
missionary, the men released the women from the dormitory where they were kept at night, and essentially had an orgy. A man in the audience who
claimed to be a Native American said the account could not be true, because Native Americans don't have orgies. A little revisionistic history.
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bajalera
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since you asked, anarchist . . .
My initial game plan was to make available in one book nine papers on Baja written by my late husband, an anthropologist (resetting the type for the
sake of consistency). This plan veered off course largely because of Baja Nomad. And for that I'm grateful to Jefe Doug Means and all you enthusiastic
Bajaficionados who post on this board.
To make the papers more readable for people who aren't anthropologists, I had already edited several of them to the husband's satisfaction (no big
deal, editing is what I've mostly done for a living). But reading Nomad posts gave me the idea people might also be interested in some stuff I've
written (or in some cases just thought about) over the years, and haven't seen published elsewhere.
The Second Harvest Revisited chapter is an example of my approach. Personal experience with pitahaya eating gave me a clue as to what was actually
involved, a hunch reinforced by Miguel del Barco's first-hand account. This evidence indicates that the process was nowhere near as disgusting as
commonly described.
Or maybe not. Yesterday I said, "Another thing about the Second Harvest--" at the breakfast table, and was interrupted by the
anthropologist-in-residence, who said, "Mom, if you don't mind, save that till I've finished eating!"
So there you are.
bajalera
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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Stephanie Jackter
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Anarchist,
I'm not arguing that it did or didn't happen. I'm just saying that you shouldn't look to the historical documents for anything near propper context.
If you've ever had occasion to be at an event where something was blown totally out of proportion by modern press, and I have, you would take whatever
a spaniard had to say about the "heathen" indians, with plenty of suspicion.
Even the orgy could have well been an act of protest toward the idiots who were isolating the women in convents- their captors- a way of collectively
saying "screw you", as opposed to any kind of common practice. The insertion of these dominating people who hated them into their lives would not
only color what was recorded, but the very nature of the activities that were being recorded.
I also wonder if the people who made the confirming accounts of these activities had any contact with each other or intermediaries between them. If
so, one account of something done in the desperation of a late harvest or famine, could have been blown out of proportion, into something that was
done regularly.
Sorry for being such a skeptic, but the void between historical perspectives and anthropological perspectives always fills up with a healthy dose of
skepticism to account for bias and cultural contamination. Few ethnographic accounts stand out as suffering from neither.
The only relevance I see here is that finding cutural definitives in these accounts might, itself, be very similar to picking through doo doo to find
pithayas. - Stephanie
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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David K
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Lera, Bruce Barber of San Felipe just published his book and one is being sent to me this week. He has a lot of Indian anthropology in it, I
understand. Perhaps you would find some good details in it. As soon as I get it, details will be posted. If you would like me to make a Baja
connection, drop me an email. Bruce is meeting me at Parral Canyon after my San Pedro Martir hike and he also is going to the Pyramid Resort's book
signing party on May 1.
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academicanarchist
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Debate
Stephanie. I agree that what the Spaniards wrote about Indians has to be treated carefully, which I do in my own writings, and good historians do not
always accept what historical sources have to say. There are many very poor historians who do, on the other hand, read too much into what the Spanish
did say. One example of this can be found in the writing of Peter Masten Dunne, S.J., or Zephyrin Engelhardt, O.F.M.. I also know that there is some
controversy in anthropology, as evidenced by revelations a few years back about Margaret Meade. I have always thought that a few anthropologists have
had the wool pulled over their eyes.
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bajagrouper
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Mood: happy and retired
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the real second harvest
happens every Sunday morning at the Hotel Serenidad...half full glasses of every drink are left around the pool,all you do is pour the leftovers into
a large glass and drink...now that's a second harvest...ol
I hear the whales song
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Stephanie Jackter
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All the more confirmation of how difficult it would be to parse truth our of century old accounts.
| Quote: | | AA: I also know that there is some controversy in anthropology, as evidenced by revelations a few years back about Margaret Meade. I have always
thought that a few anthropologists have had the wool pulled over their eyes. |
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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bajalera
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Stephanie and AA, I think we all object to the same kind of bias. Today I ran across this example from Padre Salvatierra's account of the building of
a road from Loreto to San Javier:
A Capt. Mendoza, who had built roads on the mainland, scouted the area, and with 9 soldiers worked with picks and axes on terrain so rocky it wore out
their shoes. They came to a place that needed a bridge, which would take 3 months--"when an Indian from Vigge came and said it was more practical to
make the road on the other side. Don Cristobal Guitierrez and soldier Melchor de Luna accompanied the Indian, and later walked a little way and found
the narrow trail--and on seeing it recognized the advantrage of opening the road through there in 3 days instead of 3 months."
So three Spaniards get named, but the guy who should be credited with the basic smarts was the anonymous Indian.
bajalera
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Stephanie Jackter
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Yep, that's classic
I just visited an art exhibition in Phoenix which featured American "Masters". Well, that was debatable.....After walking through rooms and rooms of
portraits of "Lady so and so" and Judge so and so, and merchant so and so, etc., almost all of which were poor looking copies of the style of the
European masters, I came across this portrait of a black man, obviously a slave, that just jumped out of the frame; his smile and character were so
vibrant looking. I looked in the guide to find the name of the painting and it said "Head of a Negro". But, after all the years, the subject, being
the most compelling in the whole gallery, got the last laugh whether he was credited or not. You could almost tell on his face, he knew he would. -
Stephanie
When the goin' gets tough, the wierd turn pro
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jrbaja
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Second harvest
Some of the best tomatoes I have seen came from a leak in a sewer pipe above our house. I had to complement our neighbors in their choice of salsas to
produce such quality items. Does that apply as second harvest ??
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academicanarchist
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Second Harvest
Marginally only.
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Neal Johns
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Mike H.
Since I knew what the Second Harvest was, I just got around to reading this topic.
Bottom line - You're dead meat! 
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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