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Rainer
Junior Nomad
Posts: 65
Registered: 1-16-2007
Location: Las Cruces, NM
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Mood: Missing Baja
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To compare the Berlin Wall (or the former East German Border fortifications) with the US Border or border fortifications is ridiculous. The issues are
quite different.
As to why those that come to the US illegally do so, well, while there are quite a few who come here just to work and make a better life for
themselves, there are also some that could, and would, harm the US or the the people in it.
Besides, to all the liberals with the open border syndrome, what does illegal mean - is there a valid question with that??
Finally, when there is more lawlessness - isn't it a good thing to have more law?? And we DO NOT have enough law enforcement officers by a long shot.
Any idea how many people have to be checked for their legallity to enter? Or, how much cargo does NOT get inspected entering the country?
By the way, I am a legal immigrant and my wife was illegal at first, now legal and we're both US CITIZENS.
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
Posts: 2129
Registered: 8-21-2003
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My great grandfather was an illegal from Ireland, came on his own fishing (sailing) vessel into NY....He got his citizenship through hard work and
dedication. On the other side of my liniage, they were from Germany, had to learn to speak "our" language.
Another sore spot for many of us. I, as a part time resident of Mexico, make every effort (at 62) to learn and speak the language of Mexico.
There was no freebees back then for immigrants (legal or not) to take advantage of. Illegals have become a financial burden to the "citizens" of the
United States, it's time to put a stop to it.
Not rocket science, just reality.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Rainer
To compare the Berlin Wall (or the former East German Border fortifications) with the US Border or border fortifications is ridiculous. The issues are
quite different.
As to why those that come to the US illegally do so, well, while there are quite a few who come here just to work and make a better life for
themselves, there are also some that could, and would, harm the US or the the people in it.
Besides, to all the liberals with the open border syndrome, what does illegal mean - is there a valid question with that??
Finally, when there is more lawlessness - isn't it a good thing to have more law?? And we DO NOT have enough law enforcement officers by a long shot.
Any idea how many people have to be checked for their legallity to enter? Or, how much cargo does NOT get inspected entering the country?
By the way, I am a legal immigrant and my wife was illegal at first, now legal and we're both US CITIZENS. |
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Ok, let's see if we can draw a few parallels. A wall with concertina wire, guards with guns along the perimeter.
Nope you're right back, in 1962 they didn't have the infrared motion sensors, the remote cameras and other hi-tech deterents. Nor did they have
concertina wire. Of course over the years the Berlin Walls integrity grew with available technology.
What they did have however were people seeking a better life(much like yourself) with people on the other side ready to shoot em or accept them.
Liberals and conservatives.
I think to install that wire only in selected areas is repugnant and adds a visual element of danger and the look of a "police state".
If you really wanted to isolate Mexico we certainly have the resources to do so. Now that's rediculous.
So inference here is that the wall replete with razor wire is a "conservative" thang? I guess that would mean that they manage the line in the sand.
Have you changed your position now that you and your wife are legal immigrants? You may sound like a genuine flip-flopping hypocrit to some.
Where do you draw the line? Rather, now you see the wire behind you. Lucky Sperm Club"?
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3718
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
Member Is Offline
Mood: muy amable
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You really will like this one- NOT!!
Here is a column that I wrote for our local newspaper.
Those of you so proud of your inherited citizenship should really like this one....
http://www.modbee.com/opinion/community/story/102435.html
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Ok, let's see if we can draw a few parallels. A wall with concertina wire, guards with guns along the perimeter.
Nope you're right back, in 1962 they didn't have the infrared motion sensors, the remote cameras and other hi-tech deterents. Nor did they have
concertina wire. Of course over the years the Berlin Walls integrity grew with available technology.
What they did have however were people seeking a better life(much like yourself) with people on the other side ready to shoot em or accept them.
Liberals and conservatives.
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Huge difference. A wall built to keep illegal aliens from entering any country is much different than a wall built to keep a country's population from
leaving that country. I can't remember ever hearing of a West German saying, "Hey, I need a better life. I'm going to head over to East Germany."
I think the world is run by C- students.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Rainer and BMG, 
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Whatever. My point was just that they both are walls that separate societies. Granted the wall in Berlin was NOT for immigration rather wasn't it for
soverienty and security?
It's the latter that worries me. See the connection?
In this hyper-paranoid US govt mindset, they are convincing people what a threat it is to our security thru terrorism not to have a fortified fence.
Seems that the wire, the fence, the location of it and security in other PC areas is vastly different. That is a joke. There is more than meets the
eye imo.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Your heading on this post, which won't accompany the quote, said it wouldn't be appreciated and you are right. It's childish garbage.
What's next? Do you tell the world of a sector of society that robbed 7/11s because they had a burning desire to get ahead? To better their lives?
I'm so sick and tired of hearing this worn out crap about being a nation of immigrants as though that qualifies anybody and everybody to immigrate at
will and at their desired point of entry. Your wife is just another of those uninvited guests who came to the party through the back door and never
left.
How in hell can you glorify this illegal activity? I know she's your wife and she did a good job but, she broke the law. Just because she's your
wife doesn't make it alright but, your error is that you don't see it that way. You see it as, "she's my hard working wife so she's above that law."
You're the problem with your self-righteous justification of only accepting laws which are comfortable for you. Other less convenient laws don't
apply.
Nation of immigrants? CRAP. I'm not an immigrant and neither were my parents. I'm worn out with the contention that the world has the same rights
in my country as I have simply because they broke the law and ended up on US soil.
Another thing Runner...this isn't a matter of liberal/conservative differences. It's a matter of national pride, something you think is worthless.
Shame on you for that.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by thebajarunner
Those of you so proud of your inherited citizenship |
This clearly illustrates the stupidity of your reasoning. I didn't inherit anything. I was born into it.
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Whatever. My point was just that they both are walls that separate societies. Granted the wall in Berlin was NOT for immigration rather wasn't it for
soverienty and security?
It's the latter that worries me. See the connection?
In this hyper-paranoid US govt mindset, they are convincing people what a threat it is to our security thru terrorism not to have a fortified fence.
Seems that the wire, the fence, the location of it and security in other PC areas is vastly different. That is a joke. There is more than meets the
eye imo. |
Sorry, I can't agree with your point. The Berlin wall was a prison wall to subjugate the East German citizens and keep them from fleeing to the west.
There was never a security issue about West Berliners attacking East Berlin and the wall wasn't put up to protect the sovereignty of East Germany, the
Soviet Union had plenty of military might to ensure that, wall or no wall. How many of the people killed trying to cross no-mans land were shot from
the front, not in the back?
As for separating societies, the East Germans and the West Germans were the same society before and then again after the puppet government collapsed.
Making an effort to ensure that aliens in the U.S. are there legally will not separate the societies. I believe the lowering of tension and ill
feelings towards immigrants will lessen knowing that they are in the U.S. legally.
No, the U.S. wall is not about separating societies. Most countries recognize the right and the need to protect their borders. How many other
countries can you think of that have literally had millions of illegal aliens cross their border? We have a wall around our house for the same reason,
to help keep out people we don't want in our house. It does have barbed wire on some of, broken bottles and nails on other parts. (Don't have the
machine gun turrets completed yet.)
More than meets the eye? I think the wall is a half-assed, knee jerk political reaction to the illegal immigration problem and is not the correct
solution for the problem. It will be like the little boy putting his finger in the hole to stop the dike from leaking. But then no one from Homeland
Security or the Border Patrol asked me.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Walt Disney should have been president of the United States. You should see the wall around Disneyland.
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Walt Disney should have been president of the United States. You should see the wall around Disneyland. |
I think the world is run by C- students.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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"More than meets the eye? I think the wall is a half-assed, knee jerk political reaction to the illegal immigration problem and is not the correct
solution for the problem. It will be like the little boy putting his finger in the hole to stop the dike from leaking. But then no one from Homeland
Security or the Border Patrol asked me. "
I agree with this. As far as your analysis of the wall not being used for security I'd have to disagree. The Cold War created large scale Soviet
military buildups in E. Germany. I doubt those were to stop fleeing E. Germans.
from Wiki:
| Quote: |
The East German government claimed that the Wall was an "anti-Fascist protective rampart" ("antifaschistischer Schutzwall") intended to dissuade
aggression from the West [6]. Another official justification were the activities of western agents in Eastern Europe [7]. A yet different explanation
was that West Berliners were buying out state-subsidized goods in East Berlin. Most of these positions were, however, viewed with skepticism even in
East Germany. The construction of the Wall had caused considerable hardship to families divided by it, and the view that the Wall was mainly a means
of preventing the citizens of East Germany from entering West Berlin or fleeing was widely accepted.
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So what influence do you see on this project from HS? Looks like they've been a big player on all fronts.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Great Sign! Must be Orange County!
Did you ever visit Disneyland in the 60s? No holes in pants, no long-hairs, tuck in shirt. No shady characters!
That sounds like a North Korean military school! Can you conform??
Ah heck, they were all sub-human anyhoo.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
As far as your analysis of the wall not being used for security I'd have to disagree. The Cold War created large scale Soviet military buildups in E.
Germany. I doubt those were to stop fleeing E. Germans.
from Wiki:
| Quote: |
The East German government claimed that the Wall was an "anti-Fascist protective rampart" ("antifaschistischer Schutzwall") intended to dissuade
aggression from the West [6]. Another official justification were the activities of western agents in Eastern Europe [7]. A yet different explanation
was that West Berliners were buying out state-subsidized goods in East Berlin. Most of these positions were, however, viewed with skepticism even in
East Germany. The construction of the Wall had caused considerable hardship to families divided by it, and the view that the Wall was mainly a means
of preventing the citizens of East Germany from entering West Berlin or fleeing was widely accepted.
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Your cited quote disputes what you say. The wall was simply to keep East Germans from fleeing. There was no threat from West Berliners attacking. If
there was an armed conflict during those troubles times, Soviet tanks would have rumbled right over West Berlin without any problem. Everyone in West
Berlin knew that was the case but then maybe they would have been the lucky ones not having to go through a nuclear holocaust as we all started
shooting ICBMs at each other.
Don't kid yourself about people facing death in the hopes of escaping the Soviet occupation. Talk to some older Germans, Hungarians, Poles, etc.
Wasn't a good time for many countries after WWII that ended up on the wrong side of the line.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
So what influence do you see on this project from HS? Looks like they've been a big player on all fronts.
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Too much money to play with and no real direction. I think it was one of Bush's biggest mistakes making Homeland Security a cabinet level agency.
(Let's not start on Bush bashing.)
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Great Sign! Must be Orange County!
Did you ever visit Disneyland in the 60s? No holes in pants, no long-hairs, tuck in shirt. No shady characters!
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Grew up in Orange Co. Went to Disneyland all the time. Even dated the daughter of the Monorail's head mechanic.
One trick to get into the special event nights (when a big company like McDonald Douglas rented the entire park for their employees) was to go in
early in the day. Then when they would announce the park closing to get ready for the event, we would hide out in Frontierland until the new crowd
started showing up. Didn't need any E-tickets then. (I guess that made us illegal guests.)
Never did get turned away at Disneyland but couldn't walk into TJ one time in 1969 because of my ponytail. Oh where has all the time and hair gone?
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I think the world is run by C- students.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Our trick was to hide on Tom Sawyers Island and then we'd break out the stash. We had a ball regardless of their PC attempts.
West Berlin 1965
I used that E. German reference and my point of view to illustrate the psychological and perhaps violent message expressions like that(wall&wire)
make. . There are many points of view on something as prominate as a row of razor wire. It makes a huge statement and I view it as more than a
barrier.
When I look at the stuff I wonder if it's not designed for a rabid enemy. Maybe when others look at it they see peace and pink bunnies, how would I
know. It's certainly been effective here.
[Edited on 5-19-2008 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
"More than meets the eye? I think the wall is a half-assed, knee jerk political reaction to the illegal immigration problem and is not the correct
solution for the problem. |
I couldn't agree more. On the other hand, Disney's wall made Disneyland the "Happiest Place On Earth" and has kept it that way for fifty years. It's
all a matter of who controls what. Either we control our border or Mexico does. It can't be both ways.
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
There are many points of view on something as prominate as a row of razor wire. It makes a huge statement and I view it as more than a barrier.
When I look at the stuff I wonder if it's not designed for a rabid enemy. Maybe when others look at it they see peace and pink bunnies, how would I
know. It's certainly been effective here.
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So you aren't opposed to a wall? Just having razor wire on it?
My wife wants to replace the barbed wired around our house with razor wire. Sure see a lot of it around properties here in La Paz and I haven't seen
any evidence of a rabid enemy.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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Despite what Robert Frost really thought, Good fences do make for good neighbors.
And putting razor wire on a fence sure does a good fence.
And despite what it says on the Statue of Liberty, it is not the responsibility of the United States to rescue the poor people of the World; if it
were, there would be a couple of Billion people lined up to get in (or already here). The saying really sounds more like a French curse on the US to
me.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Mexico needs another revolution to fix it problems. The US can no longer be Mexico’s safety valve. Mexico has plenty of resources to support itself,
if they could be made available to all the people, not the top 0.0001 %.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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Mood: Optimistic
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Good Fences make good neighbors.
I agree...and it does a lot to support the local economy.
The Great Silk Purse Wall 
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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