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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3509
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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''Who's the leader of the Band....''
I feel safer already. Thanks Terry.
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susanna
Junior Nomad
Posts: 76
Registered: 2-17-2008
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We were in TJ on 5 /28 just for the day on business and then we drove thru Rosarito on our way to Puerto Nuevo with no problems at all. The federales
were in PN and we enjoyed a Lobster Dinner at Las Brisas. I feel sorry for the
vendors there is not much business. I appreciate Fernando the tour guide he advised us to go as i was debating whether we should go. You know we hear
so much about Baja and all the Bad stuff going on but we have our problems over here too like everybody else.So my advise is go and don't let crime
stop you from going across the border.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8947
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
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Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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I noticed only one group of gringo Americanos on La Revo when the street was literally flooded with Americans in the 80s and 90s. Revoluccion was
very safe with police standing on every street corner. The restaurants looked eager to serve anyone that would walk throught their doors, and I felt
like I was doing everyone there a favor by my patronage.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
I would speculate that there are various causes, less disposable income being at the top of the list, increased fear somewhere in the top,
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Various causes, for sure. You touched on Border Wait Times in your post and that's another big reason.
In addition to these, I have to wonder if there may be some innocuous sign-of-the-times type reasons to add to the list, such as progress. Travel and
behavior patterns don't only change as a result of negative occurances. Could it be that Mexico, Baja in particular, is rapidly entering the twenty
first century and the cultural differences between US and Mexico are blending together to the point that one seems like the other?
In Southern California, this is definitly true. A traveler from upper mid-west USA could spend one week in National City [for example] and the next
in Ensenada and hardly tell the difference. The sounds of Mexico permeate the airwaves in the US and Mexican cooking is everywhere as are Mexicans
themselves with the Spanish language.
Many years back, a trip to TJ was like a trip to Mars what with the cultural differences and what I'm trying to say is that one no longer has to put
up with the inconveniences of going to Mexico to experience Mexico. In the US, Mexico is all around us.
Anyway, just a thought.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8947
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
I would speculate that there are various causes, less disposable income being at the top of the list, increased fear somewhere in the top,
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In the US, Mexico is all around us.
Anyway, just a thought. |
This is exactly the thesis in the LA Times article I read this morning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tijuana Elite flee to San Diego County
Crime wave leads to an exodus of upper-class residents.
By Richard Marosi, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
June 7, 2008
The Plascencia family boasts the brand name for fine dining in Tijuana. Their showcase restaurant -- Villa Saverios -- is a foodie destination, its
elegant dining room a gathering spot for the city's political and social elite.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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I can tell you that when I have posted on another site of owners of motor homes like ours, I have heard FEAR, over and over, FEAR.
On the scale of human emotions fear is one of the primary motivators. Flight, fight is built into our DNA. Fear is primal.
I mention to people here in Oregon that I travel to Mexico and the immediate response is FEAR!
Human beings fear the unknown and the "other". "The Other" is often demonized and dehumanized. This is part of the root of racial prejudice which I
see all around me towards Mexicans here in the US. FEAR and PREJUDICE are at the root of a lot of what I see as Mexophobia.
"I would never travel there", "It's unsafe", "You really dare to travel there", these are the things I hear when I mention travel to Mexico. 99% of
the time this is what I hear. I would love to hear something else, I really would, I love to share stories and experiences with people who have
traveled in that great Republic, but alas, what I hear is FEAR. The very real and current drug war are frosting, big, thick frosting on that cake.
Iflyfish
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standingwave
Nomad
Posts: 182
Registered: 11-10-2007
Location: Lytton, Canada
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Fear of travelling
When I hear stories about the dangers of travelling I remember the experience I had when I was nineteen and travelling in Europe. I began by flying to
London and working for awhile as I planned my trip south. I shared my plans with my new found friends and they warned me of going to France. I was
told stories of the terrible things that had happened to people they knew who had travelled to France. Well, although worried, cancelling my trip to
France was not an option and I continued on my way. In southern France, before I headed in to Spain, the same thing happened. People I talked to
warned me of the dangers of travelling in Spain, and again had lots of stories to tell. I continued to Spain and worked my way south. In southern
Spain as I prepared to catch the ferry to Morocco once more I heard the same fears expressed. Once more people I talked to in the campgrounds had
stories to tell about the terrible things that had happened to people who had gone - in this case - to Morocco.
Of course I travelled on to Morocco (and ended up spending three magnificent months there that changed my life - which is irrelevant to this story but
true nonetheless :-). Never in my travels over those six months did I have any terrible experiences with the people around me.
From that time on whenever I hear someone talk about the dangers of travelling somewhere I keep this experience of my youth in mind.
Conclusions? Generalizations? Why not - here's one. There are two kinds of people ;-) , travellers and non-travellers (tourists aren't travellers).
Travellers know that people are much the same everywhere. Everywhere you go people are part of families, everyone is somebody else's son or daughter,
or wife, or husband, or brother, or sister, or cousin, or uncle, or auntie, or granny or grandfather and on and on. So it isn't hard for travellers to
feel at home wherever they are. The differences in language, culture, economy, etc. don't mean as much as the similarities we have as human beings.
Non-travellers don't see beyond the differences, which may charm and entertain them or alienate and terrify them - either in their armchair at home or
in the air conditioned comfort of their tour bus abroad. For these folks, feeling at home when in a foreign country is - almost by definition -
impossible.
\"I could not help concluding this man had the most supreme pleasure while he was driven so fast and so smoothly by the sea.\"
James Cook |
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Yep------Between StandingWave and Fish, the subject is about totally covered.
------but for some of us, Baja has changed (duh!!!) and is no longer the "place" that we once sought out--------my friends and I went to Mexico (Baja
and Sonora) because it was wild and pristine, with no people other than the very friendly and happy locals, who we really enjoyed. It was
inexpensive, and exciting, and adventure was around every corner in it's remoteness and lack of services. Now, it is increasingly like the USA,
with the attendant hassles unique to Mexico, and therefore does not hold the "draw" that it once did, at least for us.
Now I explore the wilds of Utah, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, West Texas, Colorado, Wyoming, and the deserts of eastern California-----all which hold
the same "draw" that they always have, but are somewhat more "comfortable" to us in our 60's and 70's than the still "roughness" of Mexico's deserts
and sea coasts. We are almost totally campers, using our small 4x4's as our base of operations, only occasionally taking a Motel for the night to
clean-up.
So, it is not entirely "fear" that keeps us home in the USA, but that certainly is a factor now that these "crimes" are being so publicized--------tho
I choose to call it "caution", and being careful, which we have always done no matter where we are.
I will return to Mexico, but now probably not without several vehicles and other friends, if I can find any still willing to go-----and that is a big
change of style for us, who normally travel alone. It is hard to be gypsies when in a "group", at least we find it so. And at our age, we are not so
self-reliant as we used to be--------and yes, I guess that is a form of "fear".
Just my thoughts.
Barry
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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A must see
http://freedomchannel.blogspot.com/2007/07/abc-2020-are-we-s...
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8947
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by standingwaveThe differences in language, culture, economy, etc. don't mean as much as the similarities we have as human
beings. |
Republic of Aaland/Finland on the Baltic:
While this sounds nice, you still gotta watch your back. I met up with 3 "nice humans" on a barge on the Baltic going from Sweden to St. Petersburg.
These 3 "nice humans", sons, brothers, happened to be Neo-N-zis going to some Skinhead rally in Northern Russia. Their red Doc Martins and
"Skrewdriver" t-shirts gave them away as Skins.
Needless to say, they didn't like me very much. 
I am not the type that looks for trouble, but I always travel places, ready for it when the time comes.
Colombia (Soledad, Atlantico):
Over the Christmas break, I was there for my 2nd visit. I have heard over and over about how dangerous this place is, but I like to live on the edge,
so no problem. Right? INSIDE my Fiance's house there was a Home Invasion, but luckily, Onelis and I had just returned, and she warned her brother
there was an assailant who rushed into their home, and for her brother to "get up quickly." Hans overpowered the other guy, punching and beating him,
before the father beat the guy with a baseball bat, and the mother brought out the machete, nearly severing his arm. Yes, I have the commotion on
video! 
Colombia (Barranquilla, Atlantico):
I watched one homeless guy pummel another homeless guy lifeless - in front of a crowd, but no police around for blocks, stealing all of his panhandle
change from his pockets. At the downtown market, a shopowner is chasing after a shoplifter, no police again to help.
Tijuana (Revoluccion):
I watched a guy "Get fresh" with another guys girlfriend and later get his head kicked in. The police hauled the "dirty talker" away in handcuffs.
On another occasion, I watched a drunk get beaten and robbed right in front of a crowd that gathered to watch.
Late on Friday morning, two guys tried robbing me at an ATM, but before I could get my card out of the machine, they got scared and ran off - perhaps
because I wasn't afraid of these two midgets.
Sure, I get looks like I might be a dangerous criminal for being African-American, but I just ignore people and go about my business. But, when
people try and assert themselves like I'm going to be their victim, and I show I'm ready for a good fight, they **always** back down. I still love to
travel internationally, but I just watch my back, and try not to go everywhere alone.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8947
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Barry A.I will return to Mexico, but now probably not without several vehicles and other friends, if I can find any
still willing to go-----and that is a big change of style for us, who normally travel alone. |
Barry. No worries, I'm still young (39), and I love adventure. I'll take you and your elderly friends into the desert w/no problems to worry about.
But, you'll have to hear about Jeeps at the campfire at night.
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Lindalou
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 1-12-2004
Location: Punta Banda Baja
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Oh great. Now we have to convoy to the ATMs. |
Not to worry Dennis, we'll go with you. 
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.I will return to Mexico, but now probably not without several vehicles and other friends, if I can find any still willing
to go-----and that is a big change of style for us, who normally travel alone.
Barry. No worries, I'm still young (39), and I love adventure. I'll take you and your elderly friends into the desert w/no problems to worry about.
But, you'll have to hear about Jeeps at the campfire at night
Ken-------- that
is a GREAT offer, but if I have to listen to your "jeep talk", you have to listen to MY music!! We alllllllllmost bought a Rubicon, but at the last
min. got an X-Terra---------as I am a anti-dust nut and I heard the plastic top on the Ribicon leaked. I now know that there are "cures" for that
problem, but it is too late. Our "X" is awesome, tho.
In 3 days, we are off for the wilds of eastern Utah for about 3 weeks, so that will give me time to really "think" about your offer.  
Barry
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8947
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.In 3 days, we are off for the wilds of eastern Utah for about 3 weeks, so that will give me time to really
"think" about your offer.
Barry |
My fiance and I won't be allowed to leave the USA for a few years while her status gets adjusted, and she REALLY wants to visit Utah (her mother is a
Mormon). So, as long as you don't mind Salsa and REGGAETON, she might like to hear your Country & Western music. Of course, everyone here knows
all I like is Psychedelic Trance. Haha What a combination...
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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If you're afraid to visit Baja, then you probably ought to visit "safer" areas.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8947
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
If you're afraid to visit Baja, then you probably ought to visit "safer" areas. |
No fear, here. I'm going back on Thursday for the HARDCORE RETO 4x4 event in Canyon Rosarito for 2 days.
On the 21st of June, Markus Schultz is performing at Planeta Tijuana. I picked up his event flyer in Playas - his music label (UK's Ministry of
Sound) is spending big money on advertising his event. I'll be sure to pull money from the ATM during daylight this time.
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sloopy
Junior Nomad
Posts: 26
Registered: 5-17-2008
Member Is Offline
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Sounds as if TJ is getting like LA. Remember that cartoon in the LA Times a few years back...shows a couple driving in I-5 through L.A. She riding
shotgut and is holding an AK-47. He's driving their family sedan and in the caption he's telling his wife, "Cover me, Alice, I'm changing lanes!"
Pretty funny at the time they were having a lot of freeway shootings.
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