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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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Thanks for posting the pictures. I've heard good things about your operation.
Good luck with your new boat.
Ken
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Holy bigfish...great pics Dale and nice dump too! (Although you don't look mexican) You make excellent points about the high cost of permits and being
legal which most tourist have no concept of at all. This is why us mexican businesses get so steamed when foreigners "take people fishing"...you
know...meet tourists in bars and say hey I'll take ya fishing on my boat..which really cuts into the legitimate businesses charters, as well as all
the illegitimate charter "operations"...hard to compete with those... Plus the point about getting all the stuff into your remote area and the price
of gas etc...but I see now from the price lists that we need to raise our prices....maybe double!!! suerte compañero
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gonetobaja
Nomad
Posts: 286
Registered: 1-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Holy bigfish...great pics Dale and nice dump too! (Although you don't look mexican) You make excellent points about the high cost of permits and being
legal which most tourist have no concept of at all. This is why us mexican businesses get so steamed when foreigners "take people fishing"...you
know...meet tourists in bars and say hey I'll take ya fishing on my boat..which really cuts into the legitimate businesses charters, as well as all
the illegitimate charter "operations"...hard to compete with those... Plus the point about getting all the stuff into your remote area and the price
of gas etc...but I see now from the price lists that we need to raise our prices....maybe double!!! suerte compañero |
Sheri,
I just looked at your website, and IMHO you do need to raise your prices. Im not sure how you can operate at those rates when one bad day can end up
in a bent or destroyed prop that can cost the profit of 8 weeks at your rates. I started with lower prices when I first got going, 4 day all
inclusive trips with lodging and food plus the boat for two days for 700 bucks.
Several propelors, rudders, waterpumps, impellors, hull repairs, trailer damages, and boat ramp fees later I decided that I would actually have to
raise my prices or just go out of business. Im not sure how it is down south but in my area we pay our taxes every month. We use the equivelant of a
Mexican CPA to handle our books so everything is proper.
If you are taking people out for 100 bucks after you subtract fuel, taxes, insurance, and licenses how much are you making? Not enough in my neck of
baja to get your water tank filled and buy some chicken legs.
By the looks of your website you offer a great service with a wide range of options for your customers. My advice would be to raise your prices so
you can offer this service to anyone and everyone for years in the future. It is very hard to offer a stable dependable service for tourists when you
are just getting by.
One of the main problems I have encountered over the years is that there is a majority of tourists who think that barganing down the prices is the
"Mexican Way". I would like to submit that this is the "Tourist Way". I dont know of any mexicans that try and jack their paisanos out of 3 dollars
of profit. Its the tourists who come down and think that everything should be a bargin because its Mexico. People think that by going down to Baja
and buying stuff at a super low price is a helpfull thing. The truth is that tourism can also be just as harmfull to areas as helpfull. Paying for
goods or services from a vendor and not allowing them to make enough profit to take care of their families has been the standard operating procedures
for tourists for too long.
How much does a blanket vendor or a panga operator or a taco stand make in a day? Well take a look at the areas where the people live that perform
these services for tourists. They live in 1 room shacks with no running water, a car battery for power and a VHF radio for a phone (if that). They
take the 17 dollars they made for the day and get rice and beans and some propane and hope to survive another day. I have spent alot of time with my
friends in the area where I live. I have never met a Mexican who brags on how much money he is making off of the tourists. The only ones I know sit
at home at the end of the day after taking care of a tourist all day, cleaning their fish, loading and unloading their gear, and then get a 10 dollar
tip for the day because the tourist was thinking....."Damn I already paid 300 bucks for a freekin panga, they should do that stuff for free...."
Whoever reads this if you are a tourist that goes to Baja and tries to squeeze all the profit out of every service you see or use than you might
consider that you may be one of the reasons that the panga guy that you use every year still lives in a one room shack.
Someone told me once that if you are not part of the solution than you may be the problem.
I cant buy something in Mexico with a clear mind unless I give the dude a couple of bucks more than he wanted. To me its a couple of bucks, to the
vendor its his families welfare. I never got buyers remorse from giving the vendor a 20 dollar bill for something he wanted 16 bucks for.
But Im so rich that I can buy 6 dollar burgers at Carls Jr and just throw the fries in the trash...sometimes I even upgrade to onion rings...cause Im
rich like that, I even tipped a taco stand 5 dollars one time for 3 fish tacos...money is no object for a rich charter captain like me.....its just
how I roll....
Dale
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18397
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gonetobaja
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Holy bigfish...great pics Dale and nice dump too! (Although you don't look mexican) You make excellent points about the high cost of permits and being
legal which most tourist have no concept of at all. This is why us mexican businesses get so steamed when foreigners "take people fishing"...you
know...meet tourists in bars and say hey I'll take ya fishing on my boat..which really cuts into the legitimate businesses charters, as well as all
the illegitimate charter "operations"...hard to compete with those... Plus the point about getting all the stuff into your remote area and the price
of gas etc...but I see now from the price lists that we need to raise our prices....maybe double!!! suerte compañero |
Sheri,
I just looked at your website, and IMHO you do need to raise your prices. Im not sure how you can operate at those rates when one bad day can end up
in a bent or destroyed prop that can cost the profit of 8 weeks at your rates. I started with lower prices when I first got going, 4 day all
inclusive trips with lodging and food plus the boat for two days for 700 bucks.
Several propelors, rudders, waterpumps, impellors, hull repairs, trailer damages, and boat ramp fees later I decided that I would actually have to
raise my prices or just go out of business. Im not sure how it is down south but in my area we pay our taxes every month. We use the equivelant of a
Mexican CPA to handle our books so everything is proper.
If you are taking people out for 100 bucks after you subtract fuel, taxes, insurance, and licenses how much are you making? Not enough in my neck of
baja to get your water tank filled and buy some chicken legs.
By the looks of your website you offer a great service with a wide range of options for your customers. My advice would be to raise your prices so
you can offer this service to anyone and everyone for years in the future. It is very hard to offer a stable dependable service for tourists when you
are just getting by.
One of the main problems I have encountered over the years is that there is a majority of tourists who think that barganing down the prices is the
"Mexican Way". I would like to submit that this is the "Tourist Way". I dont know of any mexicans that try and jack their paisanos out of 3 dollars
of profit. Its the tourists who come down and think that everything should be a bargin because its Mexico. People think that by going down to Baja
and buying stuff at a super low price is a helpfull thing. The truth is that tourism can also be just as harmfull to areas as helpfull. Paying for
goods or services from a vendor and not allowing them to make enough profit to take care of their families has been the standard operating procedures
for tourists for too long.
How much does a blanket vendor or a panga operator or a taco stand make in a day? Well take a look at the areas where the people live that perform
these services for tourists. They live in 1 room shacks with no running water, a car battery for power and a VHF radio for a phone (if that). They
take the 17 dollars they made for the day and get rice and beans and some propane and hope to survive another day. I have spent alot of time with my
friends in the area where I live. I have never met a Mexican who brags on how much money he is making off of the tourists. The only ones I know sit
at home at the end of the day after taking care of a tourist all day, cleaning their fish, loading and unloading their gear, and then get a 10 dollar
tip for the day because the tourist was thinking....."Damn I already paid 300 bucks for a freekin panga, they should do that stuff for free...."
Whoever reads this if you are a tourist that goes to Baja and tries to squeeze all the profit out of every service you see or use than you might
consider that you may be one of the reasons that the panga guy that you use every year still lives in a one room shack.
Someone told me once that if you are not part of the solution than you may be the problem.
I cant buy something in Mexico with a clear mind unless I give the dude a couple of bucks more than he wanted. To me its a couple of bucks, to the
vendor its his families welfare. I never got buyers remorse from giving the vendor a 20 dollar bill for something he wanted 16 bucks for.
But Im so rich that I can buy 6 dollar burgers at Carls Jr and just throw the fries in the trash...sometimes I even upgrade to onion rings...cause Im
rich like that, I even tipped a taco stand 5 dollars one time for 3 fish tacos...money is no object for a rich charter captain like me.....its just
how I roll....
Dale |
Dale,
You really don't like some of your customers, do you?. When you take a disliking to your customers, do you throw them to the sharks?
You sound like a gringo, and your company cars have CA plates -- but you said you were a mexican biz. ?? How/why do you do transport in Mexico w/o
mex vehicles and mexican drivers,... taxi and bus drivers in cities will eat you for lunch when they find out.
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pascuale
Nomad
Posts: 224
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Somewhere South
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lets fish!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
I'm going to try and be a little nicer to Dale.
I did research the Enchanted Islands in the archives of Mexfish. There are some fish there.
I found one report from private boaters in a 28ft skipjack. They did catch 2 dorado trolling outside the islands.
It was in August. When they went to a store in Gonzaga or somewhere there the thermometer read 132 degrees. The writer didn't think it was right and
that it was really only 122 degrees.
The dodos were 20lb class. Nice fish. They also caught some yellowtail. But none bigger than 10lbs. Mostly much smaller. Smaller!?
Sierra mackerel where the other good game fish. Grouper were down in 1000 feet of water trying to stay cool.
That was really the only good report. There were many too.
Dale, sir, I admire you for living your dream. You've got balls.
But may I suggest that you should announce the grand opening of your sportfishing business with a more... um... cheaper price?
Say $200/day? And then build up a clientle and post a bunch of great photos of fish and your boat and smiling fisherman.
My friends Shari and Juan have posted some great photos. So good in fact that I drove the 500-600 miles just to fish there.
And when I meet them I wanted to hang out with them and fish with Juan every chance I can.
And if fish are around Juan will find them too.
We fished in a minipanga with three men and piled fish up in that thing.
It was some of the best purist fishing I have ever done.
So I don't know how you came up with your business model but it may be unrealistic.
Some people built a fancy boutique hotel. It's beautiful. They opened and the price was $400/night. I checked it today and it's now $200/night. Maybe
this time next year it will be $100/night. The market will determine the price.
But please keep us informed. I may be wrong about this. If so I will buy a panda and open a sportfishing business there.
Do they make pangas with airconditioning.
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There are no other guide services in the area and there are plenty of fish there fishbuck. Nice cabrilla, gulf grouper, Pargo, Sierra, Yellows,
Dorado, and yes I have caught roosters in Gonzaga. The best part is there are almost no other boats fishing the area as far as the eye can see. The
Golden Reef is soooo Fishy. You just have to know how to fish there. I dont see the point in bashing such a positive thing for the area. If you dont
like the operation, area, or prices, dont go! Stop being a "GOF"
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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Well, I'm glad you guys have fish there. That's always a good thing in my book.
Like I said I checked the Mexfish archive. All the other spots are well documented with lots of fish in season. Puetecitos is barely ever mentioned.
The only mention of San Filepe is the motherships and they fish the midriff islands. Why?
Trust me if there were fish there I would know about it.
If you do't like my comments that's okay. This is a discussion board. Don't expect me to kiss you a$$ and I won't expect you to kiss mine either.
And I don't see anything positive about a $400/day panga in a place that's hotter than the sun and deader than the moon. But I guess you do. Different
(sun) strokes for different folks I guess.
Now a 150/day panga in a place with a cool pacific breeze ad yellowtail a half mile off the beach. Ya, that's a positive.
If fact it doesn't get any better than that! Right Shari!
PS: I'm guessng that Dale posted a monster fish picture but my server choked on it so I'll look at it when I get to work.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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Fishbuck,
Sounds like you need a trip to TJ to improve your attitude.
Ken
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gonetobaja
Nomad
Posts: 286
Registered: 1-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
Dale,
You really don't like some of your customers, do you?. When you take a disliking to your customers, do you throw them to the sharks?
You sound like a gringo, and your company cars have CA plates -- but you said you were a mexican biz. ?? How/why do you do transport in Mexico w/o
mex vehicles and mexican drivers,... taxi and bus drivers in cities will eat you for lunch when they find out. |
I am a gringo with a FM-3 and a work visa. I have permanent residency. The company is owned buy my partner who is Mexican. I speak spanish and my
wife is Mexican, my time in mexico is measured in years not trips. We do not provide a "transportation service" per say and do not offer
"transportation" as a solo option. If a person orders an all inclusive package the truck ride is just part of the deal. The Hacienda has no problem
with me providing transportation as part of the overall service, nor do they have a problem with using my home for the people to stay there. The
problem arises when you try and use your home as a per night hotel, or your vehicle as a per ride business. These types of business need to be
licensed and taxed accordingly. Similar if a panga operator offers you lunch, that does not mean he is a licensed resturant.
I love my customers, when I get one that I dont like I keep my mouth shut and do my job, which is get them on the fish and get them back to shore
safely. Unfortunately being a guide is a "customer service" position and you get all types of people comming down for the service. You never know
when are going to get bad apple but I can assure you that they are out there. Run a tourist service company and you will see what I mean.
Start the day with a tourist that has been drinking from 7:30 am and then take them out on the water for 6 hours. Then feel my pain as he takes a
leak all over the back of the boat because he is too drunk to stand up straight by 10am and wants to blame you because a wave hit the boat when he was
taking a leak and he got it on his leg.
The information I post here on the Nomads board is aquired from experience in the tourist industry, not speculation. Every job has its bad days,
thats why they call it work. The majority of my customers are return customers, they know that if they book me than I will be ready with no excuses.
I have put many people on their biggest fish, most fish, whale shark rides, and other once and a lifetime experiences. I love the look on someones
face when they have one of those days. But sometimes a person comes down on a vacation with pre-concived ideas on how it should go and ends up
stressed out because things in Baja dont always go as planned. Sometimes these people will take out their stress on the people who are trying to give
them the services they are looking for.
A person drives hours to get to baja only to have the charter operator tell him that the wind is too bad to get to the islands, he will have to stay
close to shore for triggerfish and snapper......it is not unheard of for the customer to blame the captian and be peeed off all day.
Im just passing some knowledge to the Nomads who come down to baja so they can have a little insight as to what the service providers really think.
The stuff I am writing on this board is downright kind compared to some of the things I have heard other service providers say about tourists.
bottom line is that our company offers a LEGAL, DEPENDABLE AND FAIR SERVICE, we work hard and do what we say.
Some people might read this and not like it because it may sound like them. I dont make stuff up I just report the facts.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Dale makes some very good points...we started with low pricing but now we have new bigger, pangas and are desperate for a better trailer as here on
the pacific, launching is a real challenge..we need another engine, etc, etc...I'd love to have another battery so I don't have to use the one from my
truck!...gas has gone way up...I can see that raising our prices would allow us to have these important upgrades as like Dale says, we are barely
making ends meet....so take note Nomads...prices are going up...I'd love to hear what some of our clients think of that! Maybe a famous Nomad poll is
in order here!
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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Shari,
Back when you brought up the topic of tips, a few (myself included) thought you needed to raise your prices. The service you provide is unique and
warrants a fair price not just for the customers but for you also.
Ken
[Edited on 7-9-2008 by tripledigitken]
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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i would think if you need money to cover ongoing costs you'd raise prices. if you take clients out everyday maybe the lost revenue (due to higher
prices) would wash with the volume.
tough decision if you don't have the volume, but prices for everything ARE going up. just remember not to price yourself out of the the market. then
there is the occasional person (like me) who isn't a hardcore fisherman with the best tackle who wants to just take his wife out and have fun.
maybe there should be a sliding scale based on the value of your tackle?
or maybe i'll just keep my little fistful of peso's and stick to shore fishing.
good topic.....
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I totally agree Woody...and we have always offered sliding scale fees with lots of our clients. You see...our prices reflect what WE might be able to
pay and since we have a very humble income, we want to offer fun to those who perhaps cant afford the big price vacations. I really want to keep our
prices reasonable so normal folks can come and enjoy this place but boy, the cost of doing business is going up and up so and we need some better
equipment to offer better service. One neat thing is that our regular clients know how we live and they reward our "personal" service by bringing us
lots of goodies that we wouldn't be able to afford or cant' get here. Take Santiago for example...he arrived last night and livened up the dinner
party with some nice BIG bottles of wine and food stuffs..some folks bring fishing gear for Juan, baja warrior gave us a super deal on an old trailer,
bajaboy always brings lots of goodies and Pale Ale....speaking of which, excuse me while I go crack one.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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baja bartering nomads......the way it should be....
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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Dale - pay no attention to the devil goat, he has never much positive to say about anything here.
and to correct my earlier comment.......puertocitos is kinda dumpy...;^) yes.
but Dale's Coral Castle is way cool!!!!!!!!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Anxious to get south
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How far south from Puertocitas are you Dale? We have a beach house in Playa Hermosa/Santa Maria 25 miles south of San Felipe. I'd like to make it down
to your place sometime for a side trip.
Also, is your office in Bay Park/San Diego? I've seen your truck around. If so, I live right up the street.
[Edited on 7-9-2008 by BajaWarrior]
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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Okay I'm at work. Those are some great fish! But looks like mostly spearfishing. But some beautiful fish. Thanks for posting them. Mostly bottom
fish, any palegics?
Thank you for taking the time to explain the costs. I'm sure it is very expensive to run a first class operation like yours.
But keep in mind that it's equally expensive for the fisherman who would drive or fly to your location and stay a day or two.
Anyway, I'm curious to see how it works out for you. You have certainly handled my comments like a gentleman and I sincerely wish you great fishing
and sucess.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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1) A business needs to make a profit or it doesn't stay in business... and that service or product is no longer available to the customer. [does the
customer want a panga or not]
2) Be Flexible! If you notice a drop in business while others don't, a lower price increases sales! Better to make a little profit than no profit!
3) Cost increases due to higher costs of: operations, products used, government taxes must be added to your charge or you will make less and less as
time rolls on... Is your business a hobby or do you need to live on what you make (the profit) from your business?
The income a fisherman makes on taking a tourist out must pay for the cost of the day (fuel, upkeep, safety equipment, fishing supplies, business
license and business taxes... THEN the amount left over is the 'profit' ...but wait! That is a gross profit, from which the fisherman must live off of
and enjoy for his efforts... He needs to have a home, a vehicle, pay living expenses, then he should make something beyond that so he can enjoy life
beyon the basic needs or have money to re-invest or build up his business.
So, who would spend a day on the water and not make anything doing that? Would any of you go to your jobs if you made less than what it took to get
there... assuming you are not wealthy.
The fisherman, boating guides, etc. of Baja are not a charity service that should only get enough income to buy the fuel for the day's trip or the
cost of the day's operation... No, they need to be payed enough to feed their wife and children, live every day... not just when the weather is good,
and so on...
In 1973, a panga fishing day out from Loreto/ Puerto Escondido was under $50... 35 years later, is $300+ really that shocking?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaWarrior
How far south from Puertocitas are you Dale? We have a beach house in Playa Hermosa/Santa Maria 25 miles south of San Felipe. I'd like to make it down
to your place sometime for a side trip.
Also, is your office in Bay Park/San Diego? I've seen your truck around. If so, I live right up the street.
[Edited on 7-9-2008 by BajaWarrior] |
Chuck, on his web site, under services: http://www.gonetobaja.com
We are located at beautiful Playa Escondida 1 mile north of the small town of Puertecitos. There are several Palapa camp sites for rent and has the
finest beaches in the area. For those who would like to drive down and visit us in your own car we also rent fishing poles and offer hot showers at
the campo. We are also currently under construction of our Castle by the Beach, Castillo Escondido, where future guests can have all of the creature
comforts available, with a beachfront room to boot. Check out our "Our Gear" page for more info.
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Anxious to get south
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Thanks David, we just drove down to Campo Costilla a couple of weeks ago for some swimming and exploring, I guess we missed seeing the house from the
road...
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gonetobaja
I one time went out in a panga that had the cylinder head re-fused together with JB weld, yep good ole JB weld.......20 miles out with no chance of
rescue.....yep I hope it holds........$250 for the day..............JB weld............"hey amigo, do you have a RADIO in here somewhere?".........."I
gotte radio but is at for the home, no prolem I fixe the enchen ver goood with the JB weldit"......... |
| Quote: | Originally posted by gonetobaja
You are not the first person from the states to complain about paying a fair wage for a service in Baja. I have seen first hand how tourist will come
down to baja and expect that people, because they are poor, to be desperate and do everything under the sun to please the tourists.
Its usually the tourist that want the lowest prices that want the most service, and who will say the most stuff if they dont get it. The same type of
person that wants a 3 dollar discount on a 15 DOLLAR blanket. "Tell the senyor that I will give him 12...." |
| Quote: | Originally posted by gonetobaja
Puertecitos is a dump? Well, I will talk to the people there and after we figure out how to get full time power and running water we will tackle
other issues. I spend alot of time on the beach picking up trash left over by tourists who think that if they camp on the beach and leave a big burro
bag of trash then it will somehow dissapear like magic.
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For a guy that is trying to get business from Nomads and other tourists, you sure sound like you hate them !!
I have no desire to fish with you.
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