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loki
Banned
Posts: 54
Registered: 8-9-2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: really happy
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Just thinking out loud which is still allowed the last time I checked.
I want the truth. Do not give me B$
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by loki
Just thinking out loud which is still allowed the last time I checked. |
Hard to tell anymore 
CaboRon
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jodiego
Nomad
Posts: 319
Registered: 2-16-2007
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: ever hopeful
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As I seem to be the only voice of reason on this thread, I thought I would just let it go on without any more comments. Then I read an editorial in
the San Diego Union this morning on this very subject. They brought up some good points that all of you have mentioned regarding mexican authorities
and their lack of caring and/or response time to incidents at the border. But in no way did they condone the use of a gun, stating that they should
only be used "only as a last resort". Please read the entire editorial if you are able. As I read through the comments on this thread I sense some
real hatred. Is it directed towards mexicans in general, mexicans who throw rocks, or mexicans who are trying to enter this country illegally, or any
combination thereof. Whichever it is, it is very disturbing, especially coming from Baja Nomads. My comment about the border patrol retreating to
avoid the rocks was met with a rather juvenile comment that we were on our property and they started it, so we were well within our rights to shoot a
gun at them. Just to reiterate my point one more time....how far is a person able to throw a rock the size of a softball or a piece of concrete
weighing 5-10 lbs? Common sense regarding the use of guns in any situation would spare a lot of pain and heartache for all involved.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jodiego
As I seem to be the only voice of reason on this thread, I thought I would just let it go on without any more comments. Then I read an editorial in
the San Diego Union this morning on this very subject. They brought up some good points that all of you have mentioned regarding mexican authorities
and their lack of caring and/or response time to incidents at the border. But in no way did they condone the use of a gun, stating that they should
only be used "only as a last resort". Please read the entire editorial if you are able. As I read through the comments on this thread I sense some
real hatred. Is it directed towards mexicans in general, mexicans who throw rocks, or mexicans who are trying to enter this country illegally, or any
combination thereof. Whichever it is, it is very disturbing, especially coming from Baja Nomads. My comment about the border patrol retreating to
avoid the rocks was met with a rather juvenile comment that we were on our property and they started it, so we were well within our rights to shoot a
gun at them. Just to reiterate my point one more time....how far is a person able to throw a rock the size of a softball or a piece of concrete
weighing 5-10 lbs? Common sense regarding the use of guns in any situation would spare a lot of pain and heartache for all involved.
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Where do you draw the line ....
A weapon is a weapon .....
Criminal behavior will not be tolorated on US soverign soil...
Try throwing rocks at Mexican Police , and let's see what they do ....
Oh, what they do best !! Demand Cash
CaboRon
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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when does "last resort" begin
as the rock is in the air or as it bounces off YOUR head? you can play monday morning QB all day long, but i would rather have the US agents deciding
when enough is enough than ANY other cop with a gun, anywhere in the world. i think our guys are the most hard
working, decent cops on the planet, even as you all love to sit here and call them criminals.
maybe we should just fire them all and let whoever wants to come across do so. like 150 years ago? yeah, that'll be cool. then instead of going to
baja for vacation the canucks will just have to cross their southern border.
wow, i can't see any downside...... get a spine people and stand behind the
men and women who are dodging ROCKS just to try to earn a living....
[Edited on 8-15-2008 by woody in ob]
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
as the rock is in the air or as it bounces off YOUR head? you can play monday morning QB all day long, but i would rather have the US agents deciding
when enough is enough than ANY other cop with a gun, anywhere in the world. i think our guys are the most hard
working, decent cops on the planet, even as you all love to sit here and call them criminals.
maybe we should just fire them all and let whoever wants to come across do so. like 150 years ago? yeah, that'll be cool. then instead of going to
baja for vacation the canucks will just have to cross their southern border.
wow, i can't see any downside...... get a spine people and stand behind the
men and women who are dodging ROCKS just to try to earn a living....
[Edited on 8-15-2008 by woody in ob] |
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loki
Banned
Posts: 54
Registered: 8-9-2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Member Is Offline
Mood: really happy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jodiego
As I seem to be the only voice of reason on this thread, I thought I would just let it go on without any more comments. Then I read an editorial in
the San Diego Union this morning on this very subject. They brought up some good points that all of you have mentioned regarding mexican authorities
and their lack of caring and/or response time to incidents at the border. But in no way did they condone the use of a gun, stating that they should
only be used "only as a last resort". Please read the entire editorial if you are able. As I read through the comments on this thread I sense some
real hatred. Is it directed towards mexicans in general, mexicans who throw rocks, or mexicans who are trying to enter this country illegally, or any
combination thereof. Whichever it is, it is very disturbing, especially coming from Baja Nomads. My comment about the border patrol retreating to
avoid the rocks was met with a rather juvenile comment that we were on our property and they started it, so we were well within our rights to shoot a
gun at them. Just to reiterate my point one more time....how far is a person able to throw a rock the size of a softball or a piece of concrete
weighing 5-10 lbs? Common sense regarding the use of guns in any situation would spare a lot of pain and heartache for all involved.
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You are the voice of reason. Give us a break.
You are an apologist for all that is wrong in Baja and will tell us the sky is red if you think that it furthers your position.
You read a editorial in the SD. paper and tell us its gospel in regards to force.
I will tell you what a reasonable amount of force is. Whatever the US authorities deems reasonable force.
Go find a protest parade to join as the rest of the VOICE OF REASON CROWD are waiting for you.
I want the truth. Do not give me B$
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jodiego
As I seem to be the only voice of reason on this thread, I thought I would just let it go on without any more comments. Then I read an editorial in
the San Diego Union this morning on this very subject. They brought up some good points that all of you have mentioned regarding mexican authorities
and their lack of caring and/or response time to incidents at the border. But in no way did they condone the use of a gun, stating that they should
only be used "only as a last resort". Please read the entire editorial if you are able. As I read through the comments on this thread I sense some
real hatred. Is it directed towards mexicans in general, mexicans who throw rocks, or mexicans who are trying to enter this country illegally, or any
combination thereof. Whichever it is, it is very disturbing, especially coming from Baja Nomads. My comment about the border patrol retreating to
avoid the rocks was met with a rather juvenile comment that we were on our property and they started it, so we were well within our rights to shoot a
gun at them. Just to reiterate my point one more time....how far is a person able to throw a rock the size of a softball or a piece of concrete
weighing 5-10 lbs? Common sense regarding the use of guns in any situation would spare a lot of pain and heartache for all involved.
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I'm with you jodiego, for sure the shooting, justified or not, only worsens the situation. It's also true that there are too many people, here and
elsewhere, willing to attribute the bad behavior of some to the whole society. I think it's called prejudice (opinions formed before sufficent
knowledge).
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jodiego
Nomad
Posts: 319
Registered: 2-16-2007
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: ever hopeful
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You don't know all the facts and I don't know all the facts. All I do know is that you all are quick to pull the trigger. Why is that?
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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Who are you to tell me what I feel about any race? And what test did you pass to make you the voice of reason? I suggested you try throwing a rock
at any official with a gun and see what happens? I'd like to see you reason then.
You're right about throwing rocks probably don't equate to being shot. But, it could happen and it did happen. So I'd reason it's probably not a
good idea to throw rocks at the BP or you might get shot.
I encourage you to state your feelings and opinions regarding the situation...it makes for good discussion, debate, and thought. But please don't
suggest that I hate anyone or that you are the only person of reason.
In the name of open debate, please continue the discussion.
Zac
| Quote: | Originally posted by jodiego
As I seem to be the only voice of reason on this thread, I thought I would just let it go on without any more comments. Then I read an editorial in
the San Diego Union this morning on this very subject. They brought up some good points that all of you have mentioned regarding mexican authorities
and their lack of caring and/or response time to incidents at the border. But in no way did they condone the use of a gun, stating that they should
only be used "only as a last resort". Please read the entire editorial if you are able. As I read through the comments on this thread I sense some
real hatred. Is it directed towards mexicans in general, mexicans who throw rocks, or mexicans who are trying to enter this country illegally, or any
combination thereof. Whichever it is, it is very disturbing, especially coming from Baja Nomads. My comment about the border patrol retreating to
avoid the rocks was met with a rather juvenile comment that we were on our property and they started it, so we were well within our rights to shoot a
gun at them. Just to reiterate my point one more time....how far is a person able to throw a rock the size of a softball or a piece of concrete
weighing 5-10 lbs? Common sense regarding the use of guns in any situation would spare a lot of pain and heartache for all involved.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jodiego
You don't know all the facts and I don't know all the facts. All I do know is that you all are quick to pull the trigger. Why is that?
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Because you just bring out the best in people
Keep up the obfuscation
CaboRon
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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A rock weighing as much as 5#'s hitting your head is deadly force. Those throwing the rocks know the targets are armed. Deadly force meets deadly
force.
The Border Patrol is doing their job, the thugs throwing the rocks are just that......... thugs.
Now if some want to take this analysis and project that I and others hate all Mexicans and am prejudiced, it shows your ignorance.
Ken
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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Admittedly I do not know the rules and regulations of the U.S. Border Patrol but I am pretty sure they are not told to run away when confronted with
deadly force. Deadly force is deadly force whether it comes from a rock a firearm or a knife, etc. The Border Patrol is an authorized law enforcement
body to protect the borders of the United States of America. They are not there to be murdered by criminal elements coming from Mexico or other
countries that have infiltrated Mexico. As far as I am concerned if you try to injure or kill a border agent you deserve what you get. The Mexican
government needs to step up to the plate and start patrolling their side of the border to stop these acts of violence.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
A rock weighing as much as 5#'s hitting your head is deadly force. Those throwing the rocks know the targets are armed. Deadly force meets deadly
force.
The Border Patrol is doing their job, the thugs throwing the rocks are just that......... thugs.
Now if some want to take this analysis and project that I and others hate all Mexicans and am prejudiced, it shows your ignorance.
Ken |
I don't see anything prejudicial in your statement.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3508
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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When is enough enough?
There are so many levels going on here with each capable of having it's own thread.
I think the majority of people on both sides think it's not good to provoke law enforcement -- those wearing guns and badges. It would seem that
rock throwers are on notice -- throw rocks get shot.
There is definitely (pick a word) anger, rage, hatred, frustration, on the part of ''Americans'' who think 12 million illegals is enough and a more
''proactive attitude'' is in order. It's obvious that no one in government has taken the ''immigration'' problem seriously enough.
There are more levels, aren't there?
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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A Difficult, perhaps impossible, Situation
Politcal considerations have created an atmosphere that the Mexican Outlaws daily take advantage of. The Rules of Engagement have to be extemely
frustrating to the vast majority of conscientious Officers. What's unusual and unfortunate about this incident is that it is so rare. Every day and
night these agents are bombarded and rarely fight back knowing that they are taking the chance their reaction and the resulting escalation will
impact them negatively.
Just as the police in blighted urban areas develop a hostile and callous attitude towards those they are in combat with daily, there is no doubt the
same thing happens with these officers to an unknown extent. Couple the politics with the frustration in the ranks and the results aren't good. The
amazing self-control (so far) is mostly a result of their knowing one mistake can end their career and (possibly) put them in prison along with Ramos
and Campean.
Many years ago (early 80s), I was eating at a restaurant in El Centro and the booth next to me was occupied by four Border Patrol agents. The banter
between them describing some of their latest encounters and their attitude towards those they encountered, battled and arrested would have validated
the worst stereotypes imagined by the ACLU types. Perhaps, they were simply trying to out-boast one another, but I wondered later (to my wife) how
mainstream their attitude was among the field troops.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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A country that can put a man on the moon, yet is unable to control it's borders? Come on, isn't there something wrong with that picture? The shootings and rock throwings are just distractions.  The border will remain porous.The border agents
and the illegals will play hide-and-seek. People on both sides of the border
will continue to reap the benefits. It's not all bad, it's not all good, but it is reality.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jodiego
As I read through the comments on this thread I sense some real hatred. Is it directed towards mexicans in general, mexicans who throw rocks, or
mexicans who are trying to enter this country illegally, or any combination thereof. Whichever it is, it is very disturbing, especially coming from
Baja Nomads.
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jodiego, your use of the word "hatred" is both inflammatory and over-reaching. What you sense in these comments is "frustration", frustration with
both the Mexican and American governments to come up with a comprehensive solution to illegal immigration that is both fair and equitable to everyone.
What that solution is, I don't know. However, if you will elect me to be your next President of the United States, I will find a solution pronto, I
guarantee it.......I promise......send money!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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jodiego. You know, if your're looking for something(hatred etc.), you'll be able to find it, but it might be in your own mind. You'll find what you seek, if you look hard enough.
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jodiego
Nomad
Posts: 319
Registered: 2-16-2007
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: ever hopeful
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Whew, this is a lot to take in. My use of the word "hatred" is just a gut feeling I get from reading the words that are typed on this thread. Using
a gun to quell a disturbance has to involve something beyond justice. Whatever it is, it makes me uncomfortable enough to express my feelings on the
subject. I would love to continue this discussion, no matter how circular it is going, but I'm going to be away from a computer for 2 weeks. I
really do wish you all the best.
PS......Ron, I love that Baja Sur flag you have 
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