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RandyMacSC/SO
Special Correspondent
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jr and davidb
another good laugh. Haven't had a snow cone in years. I can still remember the look on my mom and dad's faces when that music from the snow cone
truck would come down the street, way back in the 60's.
I'm thinkin of trading er for a Yurt somewhere near Todos Santos and the beach, and a year supply of XXs. Just waitin for the right offer.
[Edited on 5-23-2004 by RandyMac]
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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jrbaja
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Randy
I'm thinkin within a little dry ice and newspaper, you might have a good thing going with that business in Todos Santos. They are all " artists" down
there ya know.
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Packoderm
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What is this place called?
Here is something interesting:
http://www.oceanoasis.org/fieldguide/manynames.html
by Judy Gibson, Botany Department, SDNHM
Anyone interested in Baja California soon discovers that the same region or locality may be called by different names at different times, by different
people, or on different maps. Sometimes this reflects the languages of the speakers?Spanish, English, and indigenous Indian languages. Sometimes it's
a result of historical and political changes in what certain areas are called. And sometimes it might even be a result of misspellings or
mispronunciations being passed down through time.
While we've tried to be consistent within any section of this site, it hasn't been possible to choose one "authoritative" usage throughout?because
even the authorities disagree! Certainly the writers of the different sections do. Below is an attempt to sort out some of the names.
The Peninsula of Baja California
In the oldest European history of the region?when most of western North America was part of the Spanish colony of Mexico, and the peninsula to the
west had just been discovered and was little explored?the name "California" was applied to all of the peninsula and what is now the state of
California in the United States. At some point this large region was divided into Alta (Upper) California?the continental portion which became the
state of California, and Baja (Lower) California?the peninsular portion which remained as part of Mexico.
Things became more complicated when the peninsular portion was divided at the 28th parallel into a northern state called Baja California, and a
southern territory, Baja California Sur?later to become a state as well. The correct name of the northern state is "Baja California," not "Baja
California Norte." The easiest analogy for Americans is that it's like the names of Virginia and West Virginia. No state of East Virginia was created
when Virginia was divided.
The problem, of course, is that if the northern state is called "Baja California," then what do we call the whole peninsula with two Mexican states?
If a scientific report refers to "the plants of Baja California," does it mean of the whole peninsula or only half of it? And if you say "peninsula,"
does that include the nearby islands?
It's best to be explicit: "the State of Baja California," "the Baja California peninsula." Some prefer the old-fashioned "Lower California" as clearly
referring to the peninsula and its islands, and not to the state. Incidentally, using "Baja" alone raises eyebrows as being the ungrammatical use of
an adjective as if it were a noun (for example, one wouldn't refer to New York as just "New").
The Binational Geological Region
Ignoring the political boundaries, another problem is trying to find a name for the geological unit to the west of the San Andreas faultline.
"Peninsular California" is one solution; somewhat less satisfactory is "greater Baja California."
The Gulf and its Islands
The body of water that separates the peninsula from mainland Mexico has two names, and both are used in both English and Spanish.
One is "Gulf of California," or "Golfo de California." The other is "Sea of Cort?s," or "Mar de Cort?s." Scholars tell us that the name of the
explorer for whom the sea is named is correctly spelled with an "s" rather than a "z" (that is, "Cortez" is a historic misspelling).
It's also important to be aware that most of the islands in the Gulf have been known over the years by more than one name?so that for example, if you
see a reference in different sources to a species being found only on a particular island, but the references name different islands, it may simply be
that they're using two different names for the same island. The only solution to this problem is a list of synonyms.
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David K
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Excellent Packoderm, thanks!
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
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De nada, compa.
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RandyMacSC/SO
Special Correspondent
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Good article packoderm
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Ole' Irish saying (Gaelic): 'Go neirigh an bothar leat, go mbeidh an gaoth choiche sa droim agat, is go mbeidh tu thuas ar neamh leath-uair roimh is
eol don diabhal go bhuil tu marbh'.... OR 'May the road rise up to meet you, May the wind always be at your back, and May you be in Heaven a half hour
before the Devil knows you're dead'
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TMW
Select Nomad
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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We could change the names
We could change Alta and Baja California and Baja Califiornia Sur to No-Cal and So-Cal, but that would be infringing on Jim Rome's sport show
language. Just a thought.
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Speedy Gonzalez
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To: academicanarchist
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Originally posted by academicanarchist
Many of the Norte Americans who post here do not have a complete knowledge of Spanish, and are not a part of the academic world. Unless they are
fluent in Spanish, people interested in Baja California history will look for something written in English. ( ) You are really in the wrong venue to
be raising that question.
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Lo siento mucho entonces... Sorry then... 
You somehow confirm what I was trying to say: many visitors of this forum (that discuss history) have their knowledges from US publications. Many
therefore have an image of Baja California and Mexico from an US point of view which sometimes doesn't correspond to what we say, think or believe in
Mexico.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by academicanarchist
So, your point is not really valid in this venue. You can not expect Gringos who enjoy visiting Baja California because of its stark beauty to be
familiar with the academic publications of Mexican historians.
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Well, why shouldn't those people who write about history in this historic forum, not also have a look at Mexican publications... ? As I can see you
also expect me to read your books...
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Originally posted by academicanarchist
When you have read my publications on Baja California, come back and discuss again the historiography of the region.
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Muchas gracias... I still have enough to read with the Mexican publications at the moment 
Sound like this forum about the Mexican peninsula Baja California is thought to be for US-Americans (and maybe Canadians) only...  I therefore leave this platform after a short presence. Have a good time all
together!
Adios a todos! Que se diviertan con su foro sobre la historia de mi peninsula! Fue un placer estar con ustedes.
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JESSE
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I don't think theres nothing wrong with calling Baja California "Baja", after all, we Mexicans are perhaps, Latin Americas leading promoters of the
bad use of the Spanish Castillian language.
We refer to the U.S.A as "el otro lado", "los states","gringolandia" etc etc, so theres nothing wrong with them saying Baja.
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Eli
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Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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Well, I certainly do thank Speedy G. for again giving me something to consider that really I just took for granted before. I am as guilty of cutting
the California off of Baja as anyone that I know. Anyway, I expect that as much as I will always think of Don Jimmy and cringe/chuckle when I hear
"The Baja", well, Speedy, you also have entered my conciseness with your concern that we stay respectfully formal when we ever we refer to Baja
California. Must say that I sure have enjoyed reading all the valid perspectives that Sr. Speedy's reflection provoked, a lot of good thoughts have
been presented on the subject!
My own vision on this being that the Northern states of Mexico, as well as the Southwest of E.U.A. are inhabitant by a dual citizenry reflecting the
cultures of both sides of the boarder; Baja California is not exclusively Mexican culture, anymore, than Alta California is "Just the gringo way or
the highway", both sides of the boarder have been influenced by this homogeny of cultures that creates new language and cultural perspectives that are
indicative to the two worlds merging. When one refers to going to "Baja", or say that they live in "Baja", that is a casual perspective reflecting
So-Cal slang., I see no mal intent perpetuated by this casualness.
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jrbaja
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Well, there goes another one.
Let's see if those Gringo patriots can chase off Pemex, El Rosario so that the information provided here is just to your liking rather than factual
information.
Good work boys, another u.s.victory. You should be proud.
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academicanarchist
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To Eli
I would say that the international border is an artificial construct that seperates two regions that have more in common.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64845
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Location: San Diego County
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Speedy, don't run off because we don't all do things your way... This forum is a community. Mostly English speaking people who love Baja California
(peninsula and both states). It is a learning and teaching web site. You need to be a little flexible or just take from here what you need.
You had a good arguement that El Camino Real was never the name used by the missionaries. I provided proof that the Franciscans and Dominicans did
call it that, but I was willing to concede that the Jesuits did not.
You persisted that the burro trails in Baja never were Camino Reales because they didn't look like the Camino Reales in mainland Mexico. I then found
evidence that indeed even the Jesuits called their roads Camino Real and provided documentation. You dismissed that evidence, too.
As friendly as I hope to be with you, you just seem very inflexible. By saying you are leaving us it is kind of like you came to our game to play, we
invite you to join, then you want us to change the game to your rules...?
JR is even blaming us because you don't want to play?
Speedy, as you do not seem to understand that 'Baja' is different than the rest of Mexico, may I ask where are you from and how long have you lived in
Baja?
I really hope you don't go and that everyone can benefit from our exchanges... I certainly learned more about the naming of El Camino Real, thanks to
you... Heck, I even talked about you to Harry Crosby in my email to him regarding your statements. I am sure you can benefit from being here as well.
Think about it amigo,
Gracias/Thank you/ or?
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
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Well golly DK
since you put it like that, perhaps I was a littly hasty. Sorry.
From a different perspective, The true Mexicans I know don't ever argue, dispute, whine, snivel or place themselves in a position to do so. They
walk away.
Speedy I am sure was not used to this type of "conversation" and was more than likely, taken aback by it.
I hope that he realizes that it was nothing personal and comes back "aboard". I personally will miss the input from another perspective.
You really need to learn Spanish though!!
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3718
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Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
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Mood: muy amable
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Adios (addy-yoss) Speedy
My Alta California Hispanic hermanos will be relieved to see you go, actually. It came as some surprise to me several years ago that my brown eyed
brethren around here are very offended by the cartoon character "Speedy Gonzalez" > a fact that I had previously refrained from pointing out to you.
Now that this name is gone from our board, some of my boys can relax...
Baja Arriba!!
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Margie
Banned
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Speedy Was Right
I agree with Speedy Gonzalez, this just really seems like an American Campo mentality here. Too bad.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Location: San Diego County
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JR, I do speak Spanish... maybe not fluently and not all words, but daily none the less. My assistant is from Oaxaca and won't speak English... won't
even try (but I think he understands most everything). I even have been chatting (MSN chat) in Spanish with a Mexicali businessman who owns a guest
ranch near Laguna Hanson... invited me to have a Viva Baja party there (sounds great to me). My computer has been down for a couple weeks... so no
contact lately. I have invited him to our Matomi campout at Nuevo Mazatlan and the book signing...
Anyway, this is an English speaking discussion board for Baja California related subjects. I don't know why you think Spanish is some kind of
qualifyer for posting here. Speedy Gonzalez could have been from Armenia as far as we know? Mexicans don't think that character is politically
correct. They even managed to kill the Frito Bandito... "ay yai yai yai, I love Fritos corn chips I love them I do... I love them so much, I take them
from you!"
Personally, I have fun speaking as much Spanish as I can while in Baja. If I can swing it, Keith Rolles has invited me to train at the Baja California
Language College in Ensenada... I do want to get better. ?Quiero aprender mas!
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Packoderm
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As you can see on this linked posted below, I was calling it by the proper terminology even way back when.
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=282
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Packoderm
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Or maybe I should have called it "The peninsula consisting of the Mexican states Baja California Norte and Baja California Sur." I'll call it by that
name each and every time I mention the region if you really insist; I really will.
[Edited on 11/21/2003 by Packoderm]
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David K
Honored Nomad
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You're a good man Packo!
So, how was turkey vulture? Any good?
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