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rdrrm8e
Nomad
Posts: 252
Registered: 5-14-2007
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Gee...I guess trying to eliminate the govt's cash flow, vis a vis tourism, couldn't be considered a quid pro quo to the crackdown on the cartels.
Or is that too simple?
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
gnukid,
Boil it down for me. Why is the US causing the violence in Mexico and how is it doing it? What's the motive, what are the means?
Try to be brief. |
The violence whether in fact or sensationalized theater purpose is to destabilize and precipitate a call for federal intervention by US backed
military forces and economic controls further widening demand and fulfillment for control both of food and energy and all economic policy in a
increasingly centralized by continent power grid.
Thus you will see a move to global governance and global central banking precipitated by the formation of European Union, the North American Union and
the Asian Union known as the tri-lateral union of Nations.
Today we see a rapid escalation in movements to precipitate the Global Governance and you will see various steps toward managed chaos to precipitate
the demand and popular will for global governance.
The case of the report on Yahoo is a "calling card" or precise footprint of the black operations which target innocent people with precision and
sophistication in order to intimidate and create a sense of chaos - from chaos order. Its the call of the illuminati.
Simply being aware is the most powerful step to stop their destruction. Thinking for yourself is step 2, providing for yourself is step 3.
See you at the beach!
[Edited on 12-11-2008 by gnukid]
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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Gnukid,
I can't dispute anything you believe because I don't know anything other than what I have read. I read lots of sources,both responsible print
journalism and online blogs, some with real information and some just plain kooky. I am aware of the Canada/US/Mexico/Super Highway, global one
government, one currency movement. It is still also being denied.
Many of your references are a little obtuse. I don't understand everything to which you are hinting.
Being skeptical by nature, I try to examine what and who is behind such things. The respective governments are denying it, even though Texas is
building the first leg of the Super Highway. Our government now has Blackwater operatives on trial because they were hired to do our secret dirty work
in Iraq and who knows where else(?), and they got caught murdering, were exposed by the media and now their operations cannot be denied.
You are correct in that The United States has a long history of Imperialist ambition using covert operations to help facilitate it. In more recent
history, Cheney and the Neocons formed the PNAC and planned the invasion of Iraq in 1992. It is available on Google for anyone to read. They were just
looking for the right dummy stooge-president and then they manufactured the excuse(s) to implement it.
Most Americans know that the CIA performs secret operations. They just would rather not know the details. The details are classified and/or denied
anyway. Most Americans trust that their government is doing good by spreading Democracy (by force) around the world. Many think, that to question
those ambitions makes you "Un-American". The right- Wingnuts will tell you that this cause is righteous. Just go to Off Topic and ask them.
(What I can't figure out is why the ultra-right wing, John Birch Society is the main (perhaps only) organization that is sounding the alarm about the
North American Union. They see it as a threat to their isolationist concept of how the U.S. should exist as a sovereign nation.)
Now, how does this tie in with the cartel drug activities? My theory (and that is all it is) is that it has been condoned by the U.S. and Mexican
governments with a wink and a nod, because, as an underground economy ,it represents a huge portion of the economies at large. Ironically, now
that the "legitimate" economy, run by "legitimate" crooks, has collapsed, we are left with the drug trade to support it.
I do NOT condone that! These murderous thugs have been allowed to operate with a degree of impunity while the governments have given "lip service" to
a so called "War on Drugs". It is bogus! That stupid wall is a huge example of token PR. It is a huge waste of money and won't stop the drug trade.
The "immigration problem" has taken care of itself. That population is going back. I have been saying that this would happen since I have been on this
forum. When the jobs dry up, it's bye bye.
And now it has gotten terribly out of hand; out of control, and our resources have been squandered. Luckily, they are killing each other, but too many
innocents (or perhaps some are guilty by association; friends, family, etc, whom are not "guilty" at all). are also in harms way. The Mexican people
cannot and must not live under siege, by intimidation. What a horrible, terrifying existence. The violence must end!
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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
Registered: 10-8-2008
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Most Americans know that the CIA performs secret operations. They just would rather not know the details. The details are classified and/or denied
anyway. Most Americans trust that their government is doing good by spreading Democracy (by force) around the world. Many think, that to question
those ambitions makes you "Un-American". The right- Wingnuts will tell you that this cause is righteous. Just go to Off Topic and ask them.
! |
Amazing how we "know" , Guys - Our intelligence apparatus (more than just the CIA) is among all facets of this world.
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CG
Junior Nomad
Posts: 68
Registered: 1-1-2006
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Man, y'all high as a mother effer! You smokin' mad blunts dog
Government conspiracies, illuminati. etc...
You want to know the REAL truth about all the severed heads:
There can be only one, HIGHLANDER!
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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most people who aren't lucky enough to be american and who live overseas despise us americans. so what? generally speaking, they all would come here
in an instant if given the chance, and that includes all of those towel heads. they hate us but they would love to come out of their caves and thrive
in the 21 century.... black op's are just another tool. think how the chinese or russians carry out their black op's? is it any different, really?
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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
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Not a conspiracy. Just a fact. Been that way for years. Or did you think the government quit that stuff.
Its only when your high that you forget. Right??? you know
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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that is one of my alltime favorite movies (the original). Connor McCloud of the Clan McCloud.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Interesting that after 200 hundred years of publicly admitted black operation incursions to preciptate every single military entanglement we've
engaged with zero independent unprovoked invasions of the US, American people still look c-ck-eyed when we discuss tiring of this nonsense. Even
still, we have many who support the US backed killing of innocents as we do all around the world in numbers of many millions in Iraq, and millions
more in various other conflicts.
For any of you who have trouble understanding US invasions both public and secret, take a little time, mark 15-30 minutes on the clock, turn off your
tv and sit down and do a search of any previous invasion by the US and read about it, shortly you will see the clearly noted admission of precipitous
provocations of "false flag" incursions by US forces usually attacking our own people killing innocents. In fact, look into our engagements and name
one that was not precipitated by US "false flag" operations. I dare you, you will not find one case where we were attacked independently to provoke us
into war.
The footprint of the US backed operations are consistent and disgusting yet somehow people can justify it in their minds as consistently acceptable
for imperialism, just as people did under Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler and of course under US Presidents such as we do today. Did anyone follow the
bombings in India? They have already been admitted to be US backed false flag while still we discuss attacking Pakistan?
So here we go again, targeting Mexico, targeting the Cartels, targeting innocents, killing people for the simple goal of killing and intimidation-that
is not the policy of Mexican nor American Mafia, gangs or Cartels - killing innocents is the hallmark of US backed black ops and intelligence
operations to precipitate intervention by the US military. And what do the Military do when they arrive? They continue to kill innocents... yet there
exists supporters, here and everywhere. Its a testament to the power of propagandizing via the powerful hypnosis of the media machine.
Now, I dare you to turn off your tv for 1 week or more, go outside, speak to people, better yet do it in Baja and very quickly the patterns of the
lies will become apparent and clear and you will be outraged not passive in support of murder of innocents.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
most people who aren't lucky enough to be american and who live overseas despise us americans. so what? generally speaking, they all would come here
in an instant if given the chance, and that includes all of those towel heads. they hate us but they would love to come out of their caves and thrive
in the 21 century.... black op's are just another tool. think how the chinese or russians carry out their black op's? is it any different, really?
|
I have spent the better part of the last two months with Chinese of various regions and with the opportunity to engage high level administrators.
Finally I asked them about the severity of their control systems and how it plays out and while we agreed they are severe, we concluded that presently
China is more free economically and socially then we are here in the USA. Mexico as well is far more open minded and tolerant allowing for freedom far
exceeding the US which now imprisons something like 1.5:100 that 3 of every 200 people are in jail for crimes ranging from minor non-violent to
serious crime.
We have nearly 1000 new FEMA prison camps which are empty awaiting more slave labor from immigrants or possibly credit crimes, which will increase our
populations to 3:100. But of course that would never happen to any arrogant self-aggrandizing Americans, it only happens to other people, so who cares
right?
So, no people are begging to come here, that's a misunderstood concept as it is difficult to enter from some countries, which is quite different than
they all would jump at the chance. They would not. Not now.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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your generalizations trump mine, generally!!!!
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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PNAC Website
Nothing in the "What's New" section since 2006. Old fashioned Yankee Imperialism nonsense. I'm glad the originators are dying out. Good riddance.
Their Iraq adventure has been a complete failure. Bozos.
The Illuminati Conspiracy
Interesting fiction, I haven't found it yet but I'm sure the "guys" in charge are extra-galactic beings. Maybe, just maybe, God is the boss.
To keep it on-topic, I can't find any mention of Mexican drug cartels.
Anyway, since all the drug violence isn't because of drugs, but because of some effort to resurrect the Roman Empire, do we still need to legalize
drugs?
May the force be with you.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Gnukid,
I can't dispute anything you believe because I don't know anything other than what I have read. I read lots of sources,both responsible print
journalism and online blogs, some with real information and some just plain kooky. I am aware of the Canada/US/Mexico/Super Highway, global one
government, one currency movement. It is still also being denied.
|
Texas Trans-National Corridor is a building block of the North American Union because it takes away sovereignty from our existing ports and gives it
to a foreign entity. Yep! The Port will be in Ohio or some such place and be owned by Australia or another foreign power, effectively ending the Port
Authority.
Well put how is it being denied while at the same time built and with huge billboards. This is "calling card" a truth-lie-truth serving of propaganda.
This method creates confusion and chaos. From Chaos Order is their charge as it is forever written. Note the pattern and start to recognize it.
| Quote: |
Many of your references are a little obtuse. I don't understand everything to which you are hinting. |
If you would like to be more specific that would help. I noted a few well known, well documented US provoked attacks on our own people as "false
flag". These are so well documented that they are taught in most public schools yet you say obtuse? Could you please choose any example I gave, do a
little research and if you want to discuss the background of how we egaged in war in the Mexican wars, WWI, WWII, Korea, VietNam, Grenada etc...
please open a specific dialog. There are many sources which are reputable and conclusive plus public declassified documents, its a simple task to
pursue, choose one and find out how we found ourselves at war, try it.
Do you recall the most recent story about WMDS in Iraq and now 4 million deaths later still no WMDs and no reason for our invasion and murders?
| Quote: |
Being skeptical by nature, I try to examine what and who is behind such things. The respective governments are denying it, even though Texas is
building the first leg of the Super Highway. Our government now has Blackwater operatives on trial because they were hired to do our secret dirty work
in Iraq and who knows where else(?), and they got caught murdering, were exposed by the media and now their operations cannot be denied.
|
Blackwater has 5 people indicted I believe, there is no trial yet and there is a long path prior to trial, they are going to pursue many avenues
including potential trial locations and jurisdictions. Considering the number of documented murders the fact is no one has been tried yet for the
murders. And by the way those troops have been moved to the US in violation of Posse Comitatus Act and those violent thugs are now patrolling the US
to control dissenting people. THere are more than 20,000 US troops in the US running illegal stops, intimidating people much like Hitlers Brown
Shirts. But hey we Arrogant Americans aren't targeted so who cares, right, let them put people in jail for seemingly minor crimes like credit default
or traffic violations.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/12/08/Blackwater_trial_venu...
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6707
| Quote: |
You are correct in that The United States has a long history of Imperialist ambition using covert operations to help facilitate it. In more recent
history, Cheney and the Neocons formed the PNAC and planned the invasion of Iraq in 1992. It is available on Google for anyone to read. They were just
looking for the right dummy stooge-president and then they manufactured the excuse(s) to implement it.
Most Americans know that the CIA performs secret operations. They just would rather not know the details. The details are classified and/or denied
anyway. Most Americans trust that their government is doing good by spreading Democracy (by force) around the world. Many think, that to question
those ambitions makes you "Un-American". The right- Wingnuts will tell you that this cause is righteous. Just go to Off Topic and ask them.
|
Black operations are admitted, budgeted and de facto, stated and then denied and stated and denied. This is the classic confusion game which serves to
divide and conquer the public. If you pay attention its confusing as hell and if you don't you just deny. There you have a split between educated
scholars and the public, interested participants and disinterested types, all the while American people are programmed to have a violent reaction to
discussion, to overact and ridicule reasoning and thought. Its almost of self-managed dumbing down with a mocking tone of any facts which suggests
that the US powers might be acting outside the interests of the public, which by the way they clearly are in the vast growth of military and
overspending to drive us into severe debt well exceeding any previous debt, in fact in the last few weeks and months we spent more than we have in the
previous 200 hundred years but gosh oh golly that couldn't be against the common good will, could it. And we should support more payouts even though
we each have to pay and we suffer for their gains? Makes sense?
| Quote: |
(What I can't figure out is why the ultra-right wing, John Birch Society is the main (perhaps only) organization that is sounding the alarm about the
North American Union. They see it as a threat to their isolationist concept of how the U.S. should exist as a sovereign nation.)
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Its because the ultra right wing are the only ones left who support a tradition of the US as a sovereign independent Nation, one that is truly
American. The current squad of neocons and democrats are out to destroy the Nation as they have achieved and to bring on global union. The middle
class of the US has been destroyed, the poor suffer while their incomes are well above international averages. The US has effectively been destroyed,
dismantled and much of the world has been dragged down too by a planned destruction on their path toward rebuilding a global union with global
currency and global military. Food and energy will largely become the tools of the central government which is why GMO foods are allowed to be
patented and globalized, using round-up tolerant single generation seeds that do not reproduce demanding you pay Monsanto for their seeds at a hefty
premium.
| Quote: |
Now, how does this tie in with the cartel drug activities? My theory (and that is all it is) is that it has been condoned by the U.S. and Mexican
governments with a wink and a nod, because, as an underground economy ,it represents a huge portion of the economies at large. Ironically, now
that the "legitimate" economy, run by "legitimate" crooks, has collapsed, we are left with the drug trade to support it.
I do NOT condone that! These murderous thugs have been allowed to operate with a degree of impunity while the governments have given "lip service" to
a so called "War on Drugs". It is bogus! That stupid wall is a huge example of token PR. It is a huge waste of money and won't stop the drug trade.
The "immigration problem" has taken care of itself. That population is going back. I have been saying that this would happen since I have been on this
forum. When the jobs dry up, it's bye bye.
And now it has gotten terribly out of hand; out of control, and our resources have been squandered. Luckily, they are killing each other, but too many
innocents (or perhaps some are guilty by association; friends, family, etc, whom are not "guilty" at all). are also in harms way. The Mexican people
cannot and must not live under siege, by intimidation. What a horrible, terrifying existence. The violence must end! |
Pay attention, you're mixing apples and oranges, the killings are likely the result of US backed black op intervention to create chaos first and
foremost while blaming drug cartels. Look at their past present and future. Cartels are businesses that meet a market need, they are quite different
than those actions of Blackwater types, Black op types of operations, those dramaticized stories of innocent children being killed those are the
calling card of US operations.
We are a community of like minded people with similar goals and interests. We have everything to gain by tolerance and discussion and we have
everything to lose by being arrogant and intolerant. There is no demand or requirement to "know" or to "understand" only that we participate and
consider the facts before us, that we remain concerned for each other and for the general good will of the people first, and that we demand and
require that our servants act in our interests as we desire, not in their own self-interests and at our peril.
thx
[Edited on 12-12-2008 by gnukid]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
PNAC Website
Nothing in the "What's New" section since 2006. Old fashioned Yankee Imperialism nonsense. I'm glad the originators are dying out. Good riddance.
Their Iraq adventure has been a complete failure. Bozos.
The Illuminati Conspiracy
Interesting fiction, I haven't found it yet but I'm sure the "guys" in charge are extra-galactic beings. Maybe, just maybe, God is the boss.
To keep it on-topic, I can't find any mention of Mexican drug cartels.
Anyway, since all the drug violence isn't because of drugs, but because of some effort to resurrect the Roman Empire, do we still need to legalize
drugs?
May the force be with you. |
Hmmm There is no sense in arguing or convincing, everyone is free to pursue the issues as they see fit, I thank you for the chance to have an open
discussion as quite honestly, I feel nomads are especially thoughtful, resourceful and intelligent.
Funny though that you have no memory of the various drug plane crashes recently, nearly 30 tons have been recovered in CIA related planes, they
crashed when they ere denied fueling on previously approved routes?
Well you brought it up and it is generally publicly admitted and declassified that the same planes and officers that ran torture flights out of the
country returned with tons of drugs. This is front page news. The fact that you can deny it still while it was front page, Times, it is published and
admitted yet you are secure in your denial--that is the most amazing thing to me, K-rico.
I have some doubts as to your sincerity at this point but as a well intended dialogue I'll bite, I do a quick search on the reports and add the links
though we been through this dozens of time before here... by the way its the same story as the Hassenfus story back with Ollie North and guess what
they all still working for the administration even though they are federal criminals charged with dealing crack cocaine to LA and all over. But hey
lets get all Arrogant and American and deny it anyway.
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jul/10/nation/na-contra10
Here you go-next time take 15 minutes on the clock and take a gander on your own--seems like your instincts are correct. Take a look at the reports
that 100's of CIA renditions trafficked drugs-yes these are the tools of the illuminati. Who do you think CIA renditions flights that traffic drugs
work for, me and you?
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j6QonBKKMo2gw1e3ql-xUcQE...
http://www.madcowprod.com/09102008.html
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2007/09/another-coke-jet-myst...
Please do some of research, you clearly have a computer and you can do some work here too and contribute while still bring skeptical.
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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So what about random targets. As a resident of Tijuana, with wife, children and family that live here I would really like to know were the random
shootings are taking place and more so how many have there been since we know of none.
Please if you are wiling to post that random soootings are in efect, please tell us were so we can take apropriate measures.
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Gnukid,
I cannot dispute all of what you are saying because I don't understand it the way you are writing it. From you it is coming too fast, too intensely
and too vehemently for me to catch any more than a few recognizable references. Your rapid fire intensity makes me dizzy.
While it may be unfair to you, I have seen this kind of paranoid intensity before. There are bases for many of your premises (those that I can
recognize), but then they spin into the stratosphere. I am not challenging your ideas. In fact, I am agreeing with many of the ones I can recognize. I
implore you to step back, take a breath, and protect your health. Man, you are out there and may not be able to find your way back...and you probably
don't know it.
I'm sorry I stepped into it. I can neither relate nor communicate with you. I stated what I think is happening. In good writing, brevity serves best
to clearly state an issue. We have both violated that rule.
You carry on. I am out!
 
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
PNAC Website
Nothing in the "What's New" section since 2006. Old fashioned Yankee Imperialism nonsense. I'm glad the originators are dying out. Good riddance.
Their Iraq adventure has been a complete failure. Bozos.
The Illuminati Conspiracy
Interesting fiction, I haven't found it yet but I'm sure the "guys" in charge are extra-galactic beings. Maybe, just maybe, God is the boss.
To keep it on-topic, I can't find any mention of Mexican drug cartels.
Anyway, since all the drug violence isn't because of drugs, but because of some effort to resurrect the Roman Empire, do we still need to legalize
drugs?
May the force be with you. |
This is interesting patterning of dialogue K-Rico. First you mention the Policy for a New American Century or PNAC who created public policy documents
outlining the plan to create a false flag incident to precipitate changing the make-up of the Middle-East through an invasion and occupation of Iraq
then Afghanistan. Which was achieved exactly as described with the support of the Whitehouse administration as we know including, Cheney, Bush, Rice,
Powell, Feith etc... and they later admitted they used incorrect intelligence to aggressively and seemingly knowingly to push for an aggressive
invasion and the murder of 4 million or more innocents. That we know.
So here you state a truth. Then you follow with am absurdity or a presumed lie in reference to aliens while discussing the falsehood of the
illuminati, yet the illuminati or families of the elite are well documented as the leaders of PNAC, Bilderberg, Tri-Lateral Commission, the Council of
Foreign Relations and Club of Rome-all of which are founded by or chaired by David Rockefeller, and the prospective wealthiest families as well as
seats for Cheney, Bush, Clintons, and of course both Michele and Barack Obama. Yet you ridicule their existence?
http://www.cfr.org/content/thinktank/Global_Governance_Progr...
http://www.cfr.org/
http://www.trilateral.org/
http://www.clubofrome.org/
So you see in K-ricos reply, the pattern of dialogue, first a truthful admission of truth of the involvement of a few individuals in misleading us
into military action, followed by a complete and utter denial, to the point of ridicule including farcical references, suggesting falseness and with a
truth and a lie sandwiched perhaps we should throw them both out-eh?
This is the the patternistic style of the propaganda machine, this is the truth-lie sandwich. And here we see K-rico engaging and participating in the
pattern of misleading through this method.
I am not sure if you are parroting the propaganda discrediting technique or just being silly.
If he sticks to the propaganda game plan he will now spout hateful personal insults and absurdities which in turn will turn off most readers, he will
use a long list of insults and assaults which effectively will overwhelm readers and turn them off.
[Edited on 12-12-2008 by gnukid]
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fdt
So what about random targets. As a resident of Tijuana, with wife, children and family that live here I would really like to know were the random
shootings are taking place and more so how many have there been since we know of none.
Please if you are wiling to post that random soootings are in efect, please tell us were so we can take apropriate measures. |
I don't believe there are random shootings taking place as any kind of policy by cartels or any government. Any kind of conspiratorial involvement is
nonsense, in my opinion.
Stay alert, because stray bullets are flying, but you and we are not targets.
Hang in there fdt, and all the rest of you good people. There is hope! 
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Gnukid,
I cannot dispute all of what you are saying because I don't understand it the way you are writing it. From you it is coming too fast, too intensely
and too vehemently for me to catch any more than a few recognizable references. Your rapid fire intensity makes me dizzy. |
So you know, I learn from the people, I listen to the people of remote villages in Mexico, I listen to each of you. I am a simple person, mild
mannered. And many of you who know me personally know that I spend my free time with old salts on the beaches and in the mountains of Mexico, I pay
attention and I learn. I have hardly made any grand statements, only covered known ground which there are references to articles in the New York
Times, Time Mag, AP News, LA Times etc... I make no outrageous statements.
So, though I might enjoy a truely out there talk, or one of stars and planets, or maybe of spirits and souls, I have not gone there.
While it may be upsetting to consider the history of the Mexican American war, I find it valuable, in fact I find it imperative that we look at out
history as Americans and Mexicans. It is important that know the facts, have them at our ready use and to be able to discuss them respectfully.
I have never been hurtful or angry toward anyone though I have named references and included occasional links.
Again my interest is not in arguing or convincing, more so I respect the history, I respect the people and I strive to maintain a healthy open
community dialogue which I have.
Toneart, I respect your desire to bow out, to be overwhelmed and to be discouraged. Though those are not weaknesses of yours or in our discussion. in
fact, we have discussed common history and our commonalities as a group and the benefits to seeing ourselves as a group of likeminded, critical
thinkers.
If you have a specific fact you wish to discuss or refer to please do, it makes the dialogue more easy to follow.
Thanks
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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All I have to say about Gnukid's suppositions is that I have been hearing the same things for the past 25 years (at least), and none of it has hit the
press, or is given any credibility by anybody I know.
Barry
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