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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Seems that there should be more than survival involved here... Do we or can we enjoy turtles more by observing them in nature, than by eating them?
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Good points, David. The food-chain goes on, for sure. I'm more concerned with the methods of capture, the lack of respect for a species, the
over-the-top brutality involved in bringing these animals to market. The animals don't need to suffer just because they bring a good price.
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bajabeachbabe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marla Daily
A philosophical question— the answer based on personal boundaries (and prompted by the eating burro thread):
Would you, a guest or foreign resident in Mexico, join in on a local fisherman's turtle feast at a fish camp? Why or why not?
It is estimated as many as 35,000 green, loggerhead, leatherback and olive ridley turtles are consumed in the region every year; eating sea turtle has
been against the law in Mexico since 1990. |
So, the philosophical question really is would you not eat the turtle because:
a. it is against the law
b. it is an endangered species or
c. the thought of eating turtle disgusts you
This question reminded me of last year when I was in Grand Cayman where they have a turtle farm. Originally it started as a commercial operation to
raise turtles for consumption by the local population for whom turtle was a traditional food. The commercial operation failed and today the turtle
farm is a tourist site where they raise all species of sea turtles. People can get up close to the turtles as well as snorkeling in a pool with them.
They do release about 20-30% to the wild each year, but they also serve turtle on the menu in their restaurant. I admit that while I was there I
a. held a turtle
b. snorkeled with the turtles and
c. had turtle stew in the restaurant
I certainly had mixed feeling about item c. And, having now eaten turtle stew I know that I won't have it again because it was greasy and I didn't
like it.
So in answer to Marla's question, I wouldn't partake for all three reasons. But, the bottom line is: eating an endangered species from the wild is
wrong whether it is legal or not.
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David K
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Bahia de los Angeles, 1-05
Baja Angel's first trip with me... the turtle station was a hit!
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ELINVESTIG8R
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[Edited on 1-25-2009 by ELINVESTI8]
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Bajaboy
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Okay, so it sounds like the majority here won't eat turtle. But what about other endangered species...let's take it one step farther...would you
condone building a road or a house in an area that would further threaten a species extinction? How far are you willing to go to protect ALL
endangered animals and plants? Or are you primarily concerned with turtles? I find this topic interesting and a bit hypocritical.
I am only playing devil's advocate here....I know where I stand.
zac
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Okay, so it sounds like the majority here won't eat turtle. But what about other endangered species...let's take it one step farther...would you
condone building a road or a house in an area that would further threaten a species extinction? How far are you willing to go to protect ALL
endangered animals and plants? Or are you primarily concerned with turtles? I find this topic interesting and a bit hypocritical.
I am only playing devil's advocate here....I know where I stand.
zac |
Oh boy Zac... are you feeling feisty?
WHO determins IF a project (road, house, etc.) would endanger a species?
Do animals have 'rights' that outweigh man's needs?
Who determins that?
Who determins if a species is indeed endangered or not?
(of course I know that 'government' ie. courts bowing to animal rights lobbyists and enviromental groups does... BUT, who is certain if that is a
decision based on science or emotion?)
No matter what we do or try to do... Nature bats last! Our time on this
planet as well as ALL animal species is NOT guaranteed, afterall!
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Sharksbaja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
(of course I know that 'government' ie. courts bowing to animal rights lobbyists and enviromental groups does... BUT, who is certain if that is a
decision based on science or emotion?)
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There ya go again. So protecting animals is just to placate the liberal environmentalists. Does that infer conservatives don't give a ratsass or
sense emotion or accept the consensus of scientists? That I believe
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David K
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I didn't say anything other than what has happened before... No need to throw gas on a fire Corky. I love animals... many taste good too. No species
should be hunted to extiction... good management as practived by some fishing co-ops (like Abreojos and Asuncion) is doing great so that we can
continue to eat lobster and abalone for years to come. Too bad the turtle hunting happened before these 'farm' management practices began.
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Sharksbaja
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David, when you seed a thread like this with American(your) politics, it's YOU who are stoking the fire, not me.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
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elizabeth
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Okay, so it sounds like the majority here won't eat turtle. But what about other endangered species...let's take it one step farther...would you
condone building a road or a house in an area that would further threaten a species extinction? How far are you willing to go to protect ALL
endangered animals and plants? Or are you primarily concerned with turtles? I find this topic interesting and a bit hypocritical.
I am only playing devil's advocate here....I know where I stand.
zac |
I fail to understand what you think is hypocritical about this thread.
I personally would support whatever I thought was necessary to protect any threatened or endangered species...but let's talk about turtles since
that's what the thread is mostly about. If there was construction of any sort that impinged upon a turtle nesting area, I would tend to oppose it or
find mitigating measures. If someone else felt differently, I would not consider him/her a hypocrite because the didn't eat turtles, but were ok
about the construction. I would probably try to convince them otherwise, but in the end, they have just made a decision on a risk/benefit analysis
that is different then mine.
Decisions on the protection of threatened and endanged species are not always black and white...decisions are made on a continuum...and it seems to me
that deciding not to eat and/or protest slaughter of an endangered species is a pretty good start toward protection.
(Edited to fix my grammatical errors before someone else found them!)
[Edited on 1-24-2009 by elizabeth]
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
What would Charles Darwin have to say about this? Isn't the 'natural order' for the weaker to be consumed by the stronger? Yes, but we do have a
choice as humans. Darwinism or evolution may not be right.
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Words of wisdom from Professor Limbaugh---the usual oversimplified twisted version of an important concept.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
(of course I know that 'government' ie. courts bowing to animal rights lobbyists and enviromental groups does... BUT, who is certain if that is a
decision based on science or emotion?)
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And, once again, you do wear your politics on your sleeve and cannot keep them out of a thread.
Some of your comments could be taken more seriously if you would leave your politics in off-topic where they belong.
You, as do others, have a right to your personal opinions, but
Darwin, and US politics have anything to do with this topic.
Diane
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Okay, so it sounds like the majority here won't eat turtle. But what about other endangered species...let's take it one step farther...would you
condone building a road or a house in an area that would further threaten a species extinction? How far are you willing to go to protect ALL
endangered animals and plants? Or are you primarily concerned with turtles? I find this topic interesting and a bit hypocritical.
I am only playing devil's advocate here....I know where I stand.
zac |
I fail to understand what you think is hypocritical about this thread.
I personally would support whatever I thought was necessary to protect any threatened or endangered species...but let's talk about turtles since
that's what the thread is mostly about. If there was construction of any sort that impinged upon a turtle nesting area, I would tend to oppose it or
find mitigating measures. If someone else felt differently, I would not consider him/her a hypocrite because the didn't eat turtles, but were ok
about the construction. I would probably try to convince them otherwise, but in the end, they have just made a decision on a risk/benefit analysis
that is different then mine.
Decisions on the protection of threatened and endanged species are not always black and white...decisions are made on a continuum...and it seems to me
that deciding not to eat and/or protest slaughter of an endangered species is a pretty good start toward protection.
(Edited to fix my grammatical errors before someone else found them!)
[Edited on 1-24-2009 by elizabeth] |
VERY WELL stated, especially the last part. Thank you
Diane
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woody with a view
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Okay, so it sounds like the majority here won't eat turtle. But what about other endangered species...let's take it one step farther...would you
condone building a road or a house in an area that would further threaten a species extinction? How far are you willing to go to protect ALL
endangered animals and plants? Or are you primarily concerned with turtles? I find this topic interesting and a bit hypocritical.
I am only playing devil's advocate here....I know where I stand.
zac |
this is funny...sorta. we are on stand by as a multi million dollar construction job at camp pendleton is temporarily shut down. all because of an
endangered......bird? nope. lizard? nope mouse? nope. insect? nope
an endangered weed...... will it ever end?
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Sharksbaja
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SAVE THE WEEDS & SAVE CALIFORNIA!
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
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DianaT
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Ah, but then we might have consistency.
| Quote: |
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds., Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Sharksbaja
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If you paint with a big enuff brush we are all hypocrits in one respect or another.
OK, let's just stick to the subject of declining sea turtles.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Okay, so it sounds like the majority here won't eat turtle. But what about other endangered species...let's take it one step farther...would you
condone building a road or a house in an area that would further threaten a species extinction? How far are you willing to go to protect ALL
endangered animals and plants? Or are you primarily concerned with turtles? I find this topic interesting and a bit hypocritical.
I am only playing devil's advocate here....I know where I stand.
zac |
I fail to understand what you think is hypocritical about this thread.
I personally would support whatever I thought was necessary to protect any threatened or endangered species...but let's talk about turtles since
that's what the thread is mostly about. If there was construction of any sort that impinged upon a turtle nesting area, I would tend to oppose it or
find mitigating measures. If someone else felt differently, I would not consider him/her a hypocrite because the didn't eat turtles, but were ok
about the construction. I would probably try to convince them otherwise, but in the end, they have just made a decision on a risk/benefit analysis
that is different then mine.
Decisions on the protection of threatened and endanged species are not always black and white...decisions are made on a continuum...and it seems to me
that deciding not to eat and/or protest slaughter of an endangered species is a pretty good start toward protection.
(Edited to fix my grammatical errors before someone else found them!)
[Edited on 1-24-2009 by elizabeth] |
Hi Elizabeth-
I am not pointing fingers at anyone but certain "causes" seem more popular than others with regards to protecting certain animals. For example,
should we not allow beach front homes to exist on the coast? Here is a story regarding the decimation of sea turtles on the coast of Florida: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=floridas_sea_tur...
Again, I know where I stand with this issue. And I agree with you....I don't think it's as black and white of an issue as some people make it out to
be.
As I said in my earlier post, I'm primarily playing devil's advocate.
Zac
[Edited on 1-24-2009 by Bajaboy]
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David K
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Baja Boy asked for some dialog... so I gave an opinion based on real situations... 'let's talk about it' (was the idea)...
Oh no... can't have open speech with Liberals ready to brow beat any opposition to the (sometimes) 'wacko' world of enviromentalism... Only words from
like-minded liberals are allowed here to go unopposed with facts and common sense...??? Who brings up Rush...? Not me... I don't need a radio
personality for common sense.
You know what's funny Corky and Diane? I was in favor of 'saving' the turtles... but that fact slipped right by because it was more important for you
both to take issue with my question FOR ZAC... I guess in this new era, there will be no need for a First Amendment because nobody will feel free
enough to speak fearing the wrath of the Left! Did I say anything that wasn't true that needed any of you to call attention to?
Geeze Louise (Luis)!
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Baja Boy asked for some dialog... so I gave an opinion based on real situations... 'let's talk about it' (was the idea)...
Oh no... can't have open speech with Liberals ready to brow beat any opposition to the (sometimes) 'wacko' world of enviromentalism... Only words from
like-minded liberals are allowed here to go unopposed with facts and common sense...??? Who brings up Rush...? Not me... I don't need a radio
personality for common sense.
You know what's funny Corky and Diane? I was in favor of 'saving' the turtles... but that fact slipped right by because it was more important for you
both to take issue with my question FOR ZAC... I guess in this new era, there will be no need for a First Amendment because nobody will feel free
enough to speak fearing the wrath of the Left! Did I say anything that wasn't true that needed any of you to call attention to?
Geeze Louise (Luis)! |
Needed a good laugh today.
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Bajahowodd
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This thread has been all over the place. Including a so-called unsavory way the turtles were slaughtered. You can go all around the world and find
customs and practices that are offensive to our Western culture. Question is who has the right to demand changes in such practices? So, Sea Turtles
are on the endangered list and Mexico recognized this. A much earlier post mentioned the cayman Island attempt to farm turtles. I, in fact, ate a
turtle burger on Grand Cayman years ago. I really don't know why the commercial venture failed. god knows, we have all sorts of farmed food. Perhaps
The Mexican government could divert some of it's tourist related development budget to trying to develop a sustaining turtle program providing meat
and turtles released to the wild.
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