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Russ
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Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Geo_Skip, Your knowledge about "Ocean Activists" is commendable. And my ignorance shines brightly. However my lack of information/knowledge does
not make me any less concerned about my small area of the SOC or the SOC as a whole. I am not an activist nor fund raiser for any of the causes that I
may have strong opinions about. So, though my remarks are "causal and flippant" they are more from frustration than an attack on those passionate,
aggressive activist who make or will make, I hope, a change for a healthy SOC.
"Please do not be casual and flippant about Calling On A volunteer, private contribution funded activist group to come save your burro...unless you
are equally willing to play/pay your part."
It is not my burro that is in need of salvation but the whole SOC. I have contacted and sent contributions, many times without any response, to Sea
Shepard and others. Their lack of response is part of my frustration. Pam in Loreto Has responded and I will continue to help in my small way to the
organizations she is part of. I do appreciate your response to this post and hope that with your knowledge of activist groups you will continue to
educate and inform us as to the happenings concerning the SOC. ~~Russ~~
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Geo_Skip
Russ and others...If you want to diss the Ocean Activists,, do you really expect them to rush to your aid?
Ocean activism is a tough lifestyle, requires living poor, fund raising constantly and constant harassment from governments (representing the
business interests against them) and well funded businesses. Anyway, Greenpeace is just a video making group. If you want to ask for real help...be
expected to offer REAL support or you will get no answer. These groups have a dozed crises a day on their table.
Then, if you are committed, contact Sea Shepard. They are the Ocean Activists who do the REAL HEAVY LIFTING! If you want to change something...do
you want to just be used by a Greenpeace group for a new fundraiser video...or do you want actual action?
This is a serious decision... doing the job right against any government and it's protected business is a serious, long term commitment of time and
money. Many of your freedoms will be at risk (In the USA as well as any other country).
Please do not be casual and flippant about Calling On A volunteer, private contribution funded activist group to come save your burro...unless you
are equally willing to play/pay your part. |
Well, my knowledge of ocean activists is not lacking and in fact I have set through a lot of meetings with Greenpeace and Sea Shepard. And after
setting through most of the meetings I continue, by choice, to dis the goings on of most of those groups. Most are philosophically about the same
place as PETA and operate completely out of an emotional basis that is very seldom grounded in fact. Sea Shepard would go out commando style and pull
up longlines and shred all of the equipment they found even though the fishermen who had set them were totally legal and operating under the set of
laws that they were given to function under. I absolutely abhor the use of long lines or big purse seines that kill indiscriminately and destroy
everything in their path, but I also believe that there are ways in the system to allow for proper change and disallowance of these destructive
methods.
Lets compard Sea Shepard's method of destroying all long lines found, stealing nets in the middle of the night, disrupting people who are going
about their job as best they know how with The Billfish Foundation. Right now, The Billfish Foundation is actively involved with the government of
Mexico, by legal and responsible channels, and it looks like this Sept. or Oct. that they will not only get Shark Norma overturned, but that they will
have made Dorado and all Billfish legally obtainable only by a sport fishing license in all waters of Mexico. They accomplished this with reason,
actual research, and economic impact studies as compared to adolescent rantings, demonstrations, and willfull destruction.
I have set down with Governor Agundez and had a meaningful discussion and I think that the wheels are slowly begining to turn but I also think it
will be a slow process. Secondly, I think that the main movement must, of necessity, begin with the Mexican people and not a handful of
Norteamericanos who tend to want things differently. This last impact of the swine flu scare coupled with the violence scare has caused the local
fishermen who rely on tourist dollars the come to some realization that their business is more directly tied to tourist dollars than they had
realized.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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I agree here. We must work in accordance with the law. Remember you cannot approach a working commercial vessel less than 250 meters. I do not
agree with cutting nets and longlines. The commercials have their permits and if they are valid they are operating within the law. I never heard of
sea shepard but if they violate the law in order to further their agenda then I do not support them.
What pescador says about fishermen realizing the power to tourist dollars has become reality here too. The politicos are also taking notice and for
whatever reason they are trying to organize and making lots of promises to them. I am suspicious because I base their promises on their past
performances. IMHO for lack of inversionistas and mordidas, perhaps, they [politicos] are now turning to the people they're supposed to be working
for.
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Martyman
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Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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Thank you Russ, Pescador and Pam for your attention and thoughts to these matters! Very insightful.
Marty
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Sharksbaja
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Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
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Kudos to you who see thru the over-the-top organisations. While distructive acts turn heads they don't do squat to address the pertinent issues and
seek resultant solutions.
Russ has good right to worry tho, the seiners/draggers play cat and mouse in the Bay of Concepcion. An area off-limits to commercials. The know
exactly when the military boats are around. They probably use the same sources that ramuba and Narc uses.
Seriously, if they ARE breaking laws I don't think it's irresposible to investigate and perhaps document and turn em in. I think that is responsible
stewardship.
Do we even know if there IS any law being broken by the commercials? That is other than the breaking of the back of the Sea of Cortes.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
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Location: Baja California Sur
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Ok, Russ got my curiosity up so I stopped by to see Martin at the PESCA office in Santa Rosalia and his information was that the sardine seiners are
totally legal and operating on a permit issued by Mexico City. He says he hears complaints all the time but they are totally within their rights to
do what they are doing at this point. So now it looks like we are back to the idea of torpedos (just kidding) (I do not want to be hung to dry over
this idea as it definately was not mine)
Guess we could take up a collection and find out what a boat makes in a certain period of time and maybe we could pay them from 1/2 to full amount
if they would go net over at San Carlos or Topolabampo.
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Russ
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Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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Thanks for checking. It is definitely not what I/we wanted to hear.
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Sharksbaja
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The seiners probably have considerable bycatch. What's the deal with that? Must they dump all but the target species or ??
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Cypress
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Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Sharksbaja, They eat 'em, ice 'em and sell 'em.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Cypress is right. If it has any value the keep it. The junk that goes over the side is stuff that they can do nothing with.
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mulegemichael
Super Nomad
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Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
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it seems the seiners have left for right now...we fished all the way up to san marcos yesterday and didn't see even one....as soon as they leave the
fishing gets good; we nailed em yesterday!...i think the presence of the marines have made the commercial boys a little nervous....about time!!
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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Russ
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Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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I've noticed that too. Seems when the patrol boat is out and about the seiners aren't. Something is fish about all this. ???
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BajaBruno
Super Nomad
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I didn't want this thread to die without a quick comment attributed to Gene Kira, reacting to President Fox killing the Shark Norma legislation in
2002 (before it was raised from the dead by the current administration):
"Next, it can hardly be forgotten that the basic policy of CONAPESCA and its parent agency, SAGARPA, is still all-out commercial fishing at any cost,
as illustrated by this ludicrously short-sighted statement attributed to a high SAGARPA official: "I have one interest and only one in SAGARPA, and
that is to produce food for the hungry people of Mexico. The protection of the vaquitas, the reefs, the sharks and all the other nonsense of the
ecologists, a bunch of people that have nothing else to do except create problems for the producers of food, should be the concern of Mr. Lichtinger
and SEMARNAT."
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Cypress
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It's the weekend!  The commercial guys are taking a couple days off. Got to
unload their catch etc. Monday, they'll be fueled up, with ice and ready for another week of plunder.
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Sharksbaja
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(sigh) Yep the Shark Norma Legislation failed to address many concerns and opened loopholes. It didn't take long for the long-liners to see
exploitable opportunities, oh and don't forget the inshore gill-netters.
I'd like to hear some current stats on shark takes or tonnage. I'll bet that resource is about to end. It is a shame that besides the reluctance to
monitor and scrutinize commercials and near-shore pangueros the agencies in charge of enforcement still believe like Skeet does, that there really is
no shortage of fish(i.e; sharks, rays, fish, anythang that swims, etc.) Methinks if the deep sea there didn't hold so many squid, you would hardly see
any pelagics in there as a result.
I fear the gov't will start allowing large squid operations to take place.
THese folks most likely will not see the complete collapse of the SOC in their lifetime. Rather the food web(chain) is so complex that while Dorado
and Yellowtail seem abundant to the layman the damage to near-shore fishing is very evident. Compare that to the Pacific side and you soon see how
vastly different they are. How much more prolific the Pacific side coastal fisheries are now. It wasn't always that way though. The SOC held huge
stocks of reef and rock fish. Hundreds of species of fish. Many large sharks and mammals were common only 25 years ago.
A greater appreciation of that body of water is in order from all users.
Please do not be greedy. You do not need to catch extra fish with the auspices of giving it to your favorite restaurant. It's not fsir to the fish,
the other fishermen or the other restaurants. It gives some an unfair advantage and might I say, it provides another opportunity for you to catch
yourself another fish.
Go ahead and be a pig, just don't be a hog.
[Edited on 6-7-2009 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Sharksbaja, Had a dream of going down to Baja, enjoy the super fishing, buy a little cassita, kick back and relax. Found out that the fishing is in
serious decline. Changed my mind about the whole deal.
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