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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
A Spanish company has been buying up land south of San Quintin in 500 hectare parcels, supposedly with the idea of building wind generating farms.
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Fools and their money are soon parted -- avg wind spd is too low in san quintin
Utility scale wind and solar power is only economically feasible near border where you have grid to wheel power to USA for sales of greater than 5
cents per kWhr and can partake of USA tax credits -- that's why you see Sempra and other USA and European firms driving the La Rumorosa project.
Wind and solar are not economically viable in Mexico where wholesale rates are so low, and govt doesn't subsidize private developers with tax credits
like USA. May be economically "viable" for govt to develop, but not private developers.
If you had a grid, Vizcaino plains would be good place for util scale wind turbines.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
I think wind power is great for more remote areas where the "wind corridors" are (like near Palm Springs), but pretty they are not.
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I think big turbines/towers and blades are beautiful and graceful. The Campo wind farm is quite pretty as you drive across I-8. I think the Palm
Springs wind projects are quite beautiful. A lot better looking than a housing development or suburban spawl.
BTW, I think Oceanside is already a dump, got no problem with dumping nuke waste in Oceanside. Proably would give employment to a few of the gang
bangers, meth heads and AWOL marines
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by BajaGringo I doubt they will be building any nuclear power plants soon, but I wouldn't really mind. The French really do
have the design down and there are methods available to recycle the plutonium waste back into reusable fuel cells. |
really? I didn't know that. So- other than Three Mile Island and the five legged cows of Chernobyl- what's the resistance to Nukes as one part of the
energy solution?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Bajahowodd
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Is there a strong enough constant wind velocity around San Quintin to make it feasible? Most wind farms are built in areas of great pressure
gradients, such as Altamont or Cabazon.
Wanted to also chime in on an earlier post regarding the Iranian nuclear thing. Let's all remember that back in 2002, Saddam let the UN inspectors
back into the country. Given that access and time, it would have been determined that there was no active nuclear program in Iraq. That would have
prevented the deaths of over 4,000 of America's finest young men and women; not to mention thousands maimed; not to mention the horrid toll on the
Iraqis. George W had an itching, and told the UN inspectors on the ground in Iraq to get their hineys the heck out. Mission accomplished.
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David K
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Tidal power generators in the upper Gulf of California would provide awesome power with no pollution... only the fish would be bothered, but less so
than if we catch and kill them for our dinner!
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BMG
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Wanted to also chime in on an earlier post regarding the Iranian nuclear thing. Let's all remember that back in 2002, Saddam let the UN inspectors
back into the country. Given that access and time, it would have been determined that there was no active nuclear program in Iraq. That would have
prevented the deaths of over 4,000 of America's finest young men and women; not to mention thousands maimed; not to mention the horrid toll on the
Iraqis. George W had an itching, and told the UN inspectors on the ground in Iraq to get their hineys the heck out. Mission accomplished.
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Political statements like this belong in Off-Topic. Has nothing to do with this topic.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | | Originally posted by BajaGringo I doubt they will be building any nuclear power plants soon, but I wouldn't really mind. The French really do
have the design down and there are methods available to recycle the plutonium waste back into reusable fuel cells. |
really? I didn't know that. So- other than Three Mile Island and the five legged cows of Chernobyl- what's the resistance to Nukes as one part of the
energy solution? |
Two totally different scenarios. Chernobyl was a true disaster and largely due to design, starting with the fact they used U238 fuel cells. Sometimes
called a "fast" fuel, U238 is the most common form of uranium found. Its downside is that it can remain in a super-critical state of fission / neutron
production in the absence of cooling water to the core. Its control totally depends on the functioning of control rods made of neutron absorbing
material like hafnium or boron. In the event of a loss of cooling medium and breach of the fuel cell containment structure, the emitted U238 may still
fission.
Reactors in the USA are called thermal reactors using U235 which require a moderator like water which not only cools the reactor core but acts as a
"braking system" where the water molecules provide surface area for the neutrons streaming out of a fission event to collide and slow down. In a U235
core the neutrons reach a "thermal speed" after 5 to 7 such collisions where they can be absorbed into the nucleus of an available U235 atom. At
fission speed they are going too fast to cause another fission event. You remove the cooling water and the neutrons emitted from fission events will
simply escape out from the reactor core, effectively taking the core sub-critical and shutting the reactor down.
Chernobyl was a disaster waiting to happen and why there were so many injuries and fatalities. We still don't know how many and their problem is still
not solved. They just encased the whole place in concrete they injected to cover the reactor but the high radiation is quickly breaking the concrete
down and they are (supposedly) working on a long term plan to deal with it.
TMI was a thermal core and in the worst case scenario where a loss of coolant/moderator partially uncovered a reactor core causing it to overheat and
damage the upper areas of the fuel cells. As the core was only partially uncovered the lower areas of the cells continued to produce fission events
and the core remained "live", so to speak and through a series of human and equipment failures there was a release of radioactivity from the plant.
There were zero fatalities from TMI. They have since incorporated many design and control changes to drastically reduce the chance of that ever
happening again.
The difference in design played a key role in the fact that the results of these two events were so different. Look into how many have died over the
years in the USA alone in energy related production of coal, natural/liquid gas and petroleum. We just accept that risk. People have this vision of a
mushroom cloud over a reactor cooling tower. It could never happen. It would be easier to build a nuclear bomb from scratch.
I have pulled control rods in GE and Westinghouse thermal plants. You couldn't get me to take out the trash at a U238 plant.
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
A Spanish company has been buying up land south of San Quintin in 500 hectare parcels, supposedly with the idea of building wind generating farms.
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Fools and their money are soon parted -- avg wind spd is too low in san quintin
Utility scale wind and solar power is only economically feasible near border where you have grid to wheel power to USA for sales of greater than 5
cents per kWhr and can partake of USA tax credits -- that's why you see Sempra and other USA and European firms driving the La Rumorosa project.
Wind and solar are not economically viable in Mexico where wholesale rates are so low, and govt doesn't subsidize private developers with tax credits
like USA. May be economically "viable" for govt to develop, but not private developers.
If you had a grid, Vizcaino plains would be good place for util scale wind turbines. |
I don't have any professional experience with wind generators but I can only tell you what I know. They are buying up some land about 40 miles south
of San Quintin and they seem to think they can make it work. Who knows?
I have several neighbors living near my new place out on the beach who power their homes 100% off batteries charged by wind generators. I guess it is
possible to make it work on an individual scale where we are at. I can hardly remember a day without wind...
YMMV
[Edited on 6-5-2009 by BajaGringo]
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Woooosh
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Thanks BG! I learned more in your post about current nuke technology that I've seen in print anywhere. So it seems the obstacles are more political
than technological- or the engineers are waiting for cold fusion to be perfected.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Cypress
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Small wind turbines require wind speeds of 9-10mph.
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BajaGringo
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You're welcome Woooosh. It's not a debate I like to get into normally because it tends to turn into one of emotional impressions of images and fear vs
logic and facts. I have found that if someone can just put their fears aside and take a good look at the facts they may very likely change their mind.
I personally do not want to work at a commercial plant - it is one of the most boring jobs you will ever encounter which is why you will see coffee
pots all over the place. I was a navy nuke and with constant changes of power levels and operating conditions, a nuclear reactor at sea was the best
job I ever had in my life.
I just hated having to deal with the rest of the Navy once my shift was over and I had to go topside. But that is another story.
Wind? I have seen wind generators advertise they can produce power at less than 5 mph - don't know how true that is. Out where we are at it seems like
it is constantly in the 10-20 mph range.
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Cypress
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Nuclear energy!  All the negative BS regarding nuclear power is just
that, BS, put out by who the heck knows. Probably the coal industry.
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BMG
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I have pulled control rods in GE and Westinghouse thermal plants. |
So that explains the hairdo.
Thanks for the informative post.
"obstacles are more political than technological" may be the understatement of the year.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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BajaGringo
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I "wish" I had that much hair!
The good news is that my wife tells me I make a good night light when the power goes out...
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flyfishinPam
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Wow... That's great, I guess... but amazing after the realization that the wind generating turbines kill birds and the noise scares away migrating
species!
Why not use nuclear power...? It makes warm water that encourages sea life where the reactor's cooling water is released. 
Too bad the geothermal plant south of Mexicali isn't expanded instead... That's clean natural energy, like hydroelectric.  |
nuclear or nookular power in BCS? get real! would you really want a local responsible for a nuke plant? I sure as hell wouldn't, they don't even
know the purpose of a ground wire in home or commerical electrical systems!
I like wooshes suggestion, fire up those closed down or underused maquilidoras and crank our solar placas, inverters, batteries, etc. We got plenty
of sun! One 2 X 4 foot panel can power much of my house for four hours!
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Osprey
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Gringo, thanks for the info on fusion (or is it fishin'?). I like fishin. You gave us a great Cliff's notes on the process. As far as nuclear power
goes, some think it is mankind's greatest invention. I'd argue it's the bowling ball. I mean, think about all the time and effort to walk down there,
kick all those pins over! Sheesh.
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woody with a view
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Gringo, thanks for the info on fusion (or is it fishin'?). I like fishin. You gave us a great Cliff's notes on the process. As far as nuclear power
goes, some think it is mankind's greatest invention. I'd argue it's the bowling ball. I mean, think about all the time and effort to walk down there,
kick all those pins over! Sheesh. |
well Osprey, wouldn't that explain the clown shoes???
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
I like wooshes suggestion, fire up those closed down or underused maquilidoras and crank our solar placas, inverters, batteries, etc. We got plenty
of sun! One 2 X 4 foot panel can power much of my house for four hours! |
I do like that idea...
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wiltonh
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Last winter I was camping on the beach in Southern Baja and a guy came to me and asked where the local power came from? I told him, that as far as I
knew it was an oil driven power plant.
He then pulls out a AAA map and shows me a site on the coast near Ciudad Insurgentes which was labeled "Nuclear Plant". The actual location was just
North of the road that ends at a town called Adolfo Lopez Mateos.
I had been there the year before and I did not see anything that looked like any type of power plant. I decided to see what Google Earth had to say.
It shows a large open area with no buildings. I printed the images and gave them to my friend.
Since that time, I have seen two more AAA maps that show the same thing. I did not record the date of the original map so I am not sure if the later
two maps were just copies or different versions.
The real question is why did AAA ever think there might have been a nuclear plant there?
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wiltonh
Last winter I was camping on the beach in Southern Baja and a guy came to me and asked where the local power came from? I told him, that as far as I
knew it was an oil driven power plant.
He then pulls out a AAA map and shows me a site on the coast near Ciudad Insurgentes which was labeled "Nuclear Plant". The actual location was just
North of the road that ends at a town called Adolfo Lopez Mateos.
I had been there the year before and I did not see anything that looked like any type of power plant. I decided to see what Google Earth had to say.
It shows a large open area with no buildings. I printed the images and gave them to my friend.
Since that time, I have seen two more AAA maps that show the same thing. I did not record the date of the original map so I am not sure if the later
two maps were just copies or different versions.
The real question is why did AAA ever think there might have been a nuclear plant there? |
On my desk here is a 2007 and 1980 AAA Baja map and neither one call the town 'Adolfo'... both say 'Puerto Lopez Mateos' and there is no power plant
shown.
If you could provide the year of the map and double check who's map it is, that would be great! Thanks!
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flyfishinPam
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
On my desk here is a 2007 and 1980 AAA Baja map and neither one call the town 'Adolfo'... both say 'Puerto Lopez Mateos' and there is no power plant
shown.
If you could provide the year of the map and double check who's map it is, that would be great! Thanks! |
The correct name is Puerto Adolofo Lopes Mateos many signs say Pto. A. Lopez Mateos. No nuke plant around there but they may have confused this with
the "geothermal plant" which is really a diesel generator just outside Puerto San Carlos which is West of Ciudad Constitucion. In front the sign says
its a geothermal plant, so of course I was surprised and impressed but I soon found out afterwards that it is a diesel burning generator that produced
most of the electricity for BCS.
Back in mid October I was a bit worried about the path of Norbert that could have taken it as a category 1 or 2 right where that plant is. That could
have shut down all of the electricity in BCS. Now think about it, if we need to actually worry about hurricane activity as well as seismic activity
would you really want a nuke plant here. There are places where they work well and places where they don't. This is one place where they wouldn't
work.
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