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Woooosh
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No one likes change. No wants wants change. Change is inevitable, growth is optional. Calderon could not have kown it was as bad as it was. Couldn't
have.
For as bad as this war is- Mexico and this temporary narco problem is dwarfed by other problmes in the world. No one cares if Mexico implodes except
Mexico. The Mexicans who could have saved Mexico are posting from the USA now- safe and with hope for their grandchildren. They threw in the towel
long ago (see moral compass post above ) .
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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k-rico
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Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
For as bad as this war is- Mexico and this temporary narco problem is dwarfed by other problmes in the world. No one cares if Mexico implodes except
Mexico. The Mexicans who could have saved Mexico are posting from the USA now- safe and with hope for their grandchildren. They threw in the towel
long ago (see moral compass post above ) . |
Oh the drama, where do you get this stuff??
Lighten up.
Zoloft, Prozac, a few hours at Anthonys, I dunno.
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gnukid
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Posts: 4411
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
No one likes change. No wants wants change. Change is inevitable, growth is optional. Calderon could not have kown it was as bad as it was. Couldn't
have.
For as bad as this war is- Mexico and this temporary narco problem is dwarfed by other problmes in the world. No one cares if Mexico implodes except
Mexico. The Mexicans who could have saved Mexico are posting from the USA now- safe and with hope for their grandchildren. They threw in the towel
long ago (see moral compass post above ) . |
How is it that you have the idea that drug smuggling is temporary or limited to a Mexico issue?
Didn't every child's text book growing up note opium trade, even George Washington wrote extensively about Marijuana as a crop and as a commodity
traded for centuries? And every paper chronicles the market daily.
There are systematic divisions of market and profitability from growing, production, harvesting, selling from farmer to trafficker, smugglers,
distributors, funding, money laundering, distribution and street dealing as well as legal distribution? Plus complimentary industries, policing,
prisons, military, bribes etc...
What truck did you fall off of to decide that this is a surprise to Calderon or to anyone? That is the most naive concept I have heard and definitely
misses the point by more than a few kilometers. Can we drop the 'boy what a surprise?' reactions and move forward to reasonable approaches to this
vast interconnected industry that affects every aspect of our lives from lending, to construction, to military industrial complex growth, to wars, to
IMF, Federal Reserve, etc...
How could one become an adult in any country let alone the USA and not have a better handle on the state of drug affairs which affects our lives in
every possible conceivable way while claiming complete ignorance as well as fantastic naivete and further project this upon a head of state?
A basic set of tools to problem solve includes a basic understanding of the drug market and its impact before we can approach this far reaching issue.
Why not look into it a bit? Or are you among those who refuse to educate themselves defiantly?
Try this - Catherine Austin Fitts is a financial advisor who was HUD assistant secretary, she wrote extensively about Narco Dollars and how they
affect so many markets.
http://www.drugwar.com/fittsnarco1.shtm
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k-rico
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Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Let me pose just one more question. At San Ysidro, with the random red lite/green lite thing going on for years, have they ever caught a shippment
of arms going south? I've not heard of one except for some brain-dead Marines getting into the wrong lane.
This whole thing stinks.
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"I've not heard of one" - I guess it's never happened then, right? 
A question - Do you read Mexican newspapers or listen to Mexican TV news?
My wife does daily and she just told me that they (Mex Army) just busted an AFO cartel guy in TJ with 3.5 million dollars in his car and busted some
smugglers on the mainland with tons (literally) of cocaine.
I know that's not about the border but my point is there is alot going on that US news sources don't bother to report. And I think that especially
applies to successful events and other happenings when there aren't any bloody details.
If you're only reading/listening to US news, you're getting only a fraction of the story.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Let me pose just one more question. At San Ysidro, with the random red lite/green lite thing going on for years, have they ever caught a shippment
of arms going south? I've not heard of one except for some brain-dead Marines getting into the wrong lane.
This whole thing stinks.
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"I've not heard of one" - I guess it's never happened then, right?
A question - Do you read Mexican newspapers or listen to Mexican TV news?
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1. I didn't say or imply that. It was a question.
2. Yes I do.
Read back. My question was specific as to place and contraband. Your examples addressed neither.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
No one likes change. No wants wants change. Change is inevitable, growth is optional. Calderon could not have kown it was as bad as it was. Couldn't
have.
For as bad as this war is- Mexico and this temporary narco problem is dwarfed by other problmes in the world. No one cares if Mexico implodes except
Mexico. The Mexicans who could have saved Mexico are posting from the USA now- safe and with hope for their grandchildren. They threw in the towel
long ago (see moral compass post above ) . |
How is it that you have the idea that drug smuggling is temporary or limited to a Mexico issue?
Didn't every child's text book growing up note opium trade, even George Washington wrote extensively about Marijuana as a crop and as a commodity
traded for centuries? And every paper chronicles the market daily.
There are systematic divisions of market and profitability from growing, production, harvesting, selling from farmer to trafficker, smugglers,
distributors, funding, money laundering, distribution and street dealing as well as legal distribution? Plus complimentary industries, policing,
prisons, military, bribes etc...
What truck did you fall off of to decide that this is a surprise to Calderon or to anyone? That is the most naive concept I have heard and definitely
misses the point by more than a few kilometers. Can we drop the 'boy what a surprise?' reactions and move forward to reasonable approaches to this
vast interconnected industry that affects every aspect of our lives from lending, to construction, to military industrial complex growth, to wars, to
IMF, Federal Reserve, etc...
How could one become an adult in any country let alone the USA and not have a better handle on the state of drug affairs which affects our lives in
every possible conceivable way while claiming complete ignorance as well as fantastic naivete and further project this upon a head of state?
A basic set of tools to problem solve includes a basic understanding of the drug market and its impact before we can approach this far reaching issue.
Why not look into it a bit? Or are you among those who refuse to educate themselves defiantly?
Try this - Catherine Austin Fitts is a financial advisor who was HUD assistant secretary, she wrote extensively about Narco Dollars and how they
affect so many markets.
http://www.drugwar.com/fittsnarco1.shtm |
What is "temporary" is delaying the obvious solution- decriminalize it, legalize it, regulate it, tax it and move on. It's really that simple. All
the other problems will go away- just like alcohol. Toomuch money involved. There are just as many corrupt police and narcos in the USA- Calderon
said it to Hillary and no one disputed it.
It's all about the money. Everyone is corrupted. With the limited income opportunities the uneducated have in Mexico- I don't blame them. It's
their one shot to live the lifestyle they grew up watching on abc, nbc and cbs. Probably their only chance.
Yes, I'm an old connecticut yankeee with that value set. Those values have saved the world more than once and I don't back off them or ever apologize
for them. Americans deserve to ride on their high horse- they paid for it will the blood and guts of our fathers and grandfathers. America was
founded by a revolution of the people- we have a different mindset Meican can never undestand or appreciate. La Raza... geeeesh
Yes, it is a very high horse I proudly ride as an American while Mexico rides a flea infested burro painted like a zebra headed down a path it can't
even find. That is reality.
[Edited on 7-21-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
even George Washington wrote extensively about Marijuana as a crop and as a commodity traded for centuries |
Wasn't that "Hemp?" I thought there was a technical difference.
What do I know? My drug of choice is Pacifico.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Correct again Dennis. I think there used to be coca in coca-cola once too. LOL
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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fishingmako
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Registered: 10-10-2008
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Mood: always up
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Above there was an interesting item saying about Chinese weapons, do you might think some of these may be coming in on Cargo ships to Mexico? or am I
just off course? might be easier than autos and a heck of a lot more, with no checking????????
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishingmako
Above there was an interesting item saying about Chinese weapons, do you might think some of these may be coming in on Cargo ships to Mexico? or am I
just off course? might be easier than autos and a heck of a lot more, with no checking???????? |
Ya think? Mexico never released the total numbers and types of combat weapons confiscated to date or even a breakdown by country of origin. They have
it- but they can't blame the USA if they admit most all come from somewhere else.
Allwe know for sure is 90% of the guns Mexico physically turned over to the USA for testing were made in the USA. That's all we know.
[Edited on 7-23-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishingmako
Above there was an interesting item saying about Chinese weapons, do you might think some of these may be coming in on Cargo ships to Mexico? or am I
just off course? might be easier than autos and a heck of a lot more, with no checking???????? |
Ya think? Mexico never released the total numbers and types of combat weapons confiscated to date or even a breakdown by country of origin. They have
it- but they can't blame the USA if they admit most all come from somewhere else.
Allwe know for sure is 90% of the guns Mexico physically turned over to the USA for testing were made in the USA. That's all we know.
[Edited on 7-23-2009 by Woooosh] |
90% of the traceble guns come from the US, wich means, guns that still have some sort of serial number that can be traced to its origin. The rest of
the guns cannot technically be traced because they have had all id marks removed. Now, what in the world would make anybody with any rationality
think, that if 90% of the traceble guns wich by the way, are confiscated all over the country, from several cartels, and from several suppliers, are
from the US. That the rest of the non traceable guns that are confiscated under the same conditions, are from somewhere else ?
Do you understand how ridiculous it is to think that all the cartels, and all the gun traffickers, and all the organized crime cells operating around
the country, have managed to get togeter in order to remove IDs from non americans guns when we all know they donīt give a damn?
And a few people here keep saying we "Mexicans canīt accept responsability".
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by fishingmako
Above there was an interesting item saying about Chinese weapons, do you might think some of these may be coming in on Cargo ships to Mexico? or am I
just off course? might be easier than autos and a heck of a lot more, with no checking???????? |
Ya think? Mexico never released the total numbers and types of combat weapons confiscated to date or even a breakdown by country of origin. They have
it- but they can't blame the USA if they admit most all come from somewhere else.
Allwe know for sure is 90% of the guns Mexico physically turned over to the USA for testing were made in the USA. That's all we know.
[Edited on 7-23-2009 by Woooosh] |
90% of the traceble guns come from the US, wich means, guns that still have some sort of serial number that can be traced to its origin. The rest of
the guns cannot technically be traced because they have had all id marks removed. Now, what in the world would make anybody with any rationality
think, that if 90% of the traceble guns wich by the way, are confiscated all over the country, from several cartels, and from several suppliers, are
from the US. That the rest of the non traceable guns that are confiscated under the same conditions, are from somewhere else ?
Do you understand how ridiculous it is to think that all the cartels, and all the gun traffickers, and all the organized crime cells operating around
the country, have managed to get togeter in order to remove IDs from non americans guns when we all know they donīt give a damn?
And a few people here keep saying we "Mexicans canīt accept responsability".
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This horse has already been beat to death. Weapons come up from the south and from the narcos friends worldwide- plenty in Columbia heading this way.
And how many Mexican military weapons are in the hands of the narcos- Mexico isn't talking about those. Not ALL wepaons are marked when they made
either- only ones from reputable manufacturers. There is no way for anyone to determine the truth about gun numbers- but Mexicos attempt to blame
the USA for everything the past 100 years is tiresome.
While Meixco is playing the victim- the rest of world decided to let it. You can't fix stupid.
[Edited on 7-23-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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This gun arguement is about as useful as the flu arguement. Too much emphasis on where it came from. Knowing where the flu started won't prevent it
from starting there again and just because we know the US has a permissive gun policy wont stop that from continuing. If guns were to miraculously
dissappear, cartels would be terrorizing the country with golf clubs.
Torturing prisoners and killing is all that's left in the government arsenal. Use it or lose it.
Another thing....this shipping of high-maintenance prisoners to the states and incarcerated at our expense has to stop. The vermin have to be
erradicated at the point of exchange. Shroud them with our Bill Of Rights and burn them to dust. Adios MF.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
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Canīt handle the truth, i rest my case.
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Dave
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Responsibility
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Do you understand how ridiculous it is to think that all the cartels, and all the gun traffickers, and all the organized crime cells operating around
the country, have managed to get togeter in order to remove IDs from non americans guns when we all know they donīt give a damn?
And a few people here keep saying we "Mexicans canīt accept responsability".
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The issue is not where weapons are purchased. It's whether they get to Mexico.
Mexico bears the responsibility to police its borders. It appears that they are making the attempt.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
No one likes change. No wants wants change. Change is inevitable, growth is optional. Calderon could not have kown it was as bad as it was. Couldn't
have.
For as bad as this war is- Mexico and this temporary narco problem is dwarfed by other problmes in the world. No one cares if Mexico implodes except
Mexico. The Mexicans who could have saved Mexico are posting from the USA now- safe and with hope for their grandchildren. They threw in the towel
long ago (see moral compass post above ) . |
How is it that you have the idea that drug smuggling is temporary or limited to a Mexico issue?
Didn't every child's text book growing up note opium trade, even George Washington wrote extensively about Marijuana as a crop and as a commodity
traded for centuries? And every paper chronicles the market daily.
There are systematic divisions of market and profitability from growing, production, harvesting, selling from farmer to trafficker, smugglers,
distributors, funding, money laundering, distribution and street dealing as well as legal distribution? Plus complimentary industries, policing,
prisons, military, bribes etc...
What truck did you fall off of to decide that this is a surprise to Calderon or to anyone? That is the most naive concept I have heard and definitely
misses the point by more than a few kilometers. Can we drop the 'boy what a surprise?' reactions and move forward to reasonable approaches to this
vast interconnected industry that affects every aspect of our lives from lending, to construction, to military industrial complex growth, to wars, to
IMF, Federal Reserve, etc...
How could one become an adult in any country let alone the USA and not have a better handle on the state of drug affairs which affects our lives in
every possible conceivable way while claiming complete ignorance as well as fantastic naivete and further project this upon a head of state?
A basic set of tools to problem solve includes a basic understanding of the drug market and its impact before we can approach this far reaching issue.
Why not look into it a bit? Or are you among those who refuse to educate themselves defiantly?
Try this - Catherine Austin Fitts is a financial advisor who was HUD assistant secretary, she wrote extensively about Narco Dollars and how they
affect so many markets.
http://www.drugwar.com/fittsnarco1.shtm |
What is "temporary" is delaying the obvious solution- decriminalize it, legalize it, regulate it, tax it and move on. It's really that simple. All
the other problems will go away- just like alcohol. Toomuch money involved. There are just as many corrupt police and narcos in the USA- Calderon
said it to Hillary and no one disputed it.
It's all about the money. Everyone is corrupted. With the limited income opportunities the uneducated have in Mexico- I don't blame them. It's
their one shot to live the lifestyle they grew up watching on abc, nbc and cbs. Probably their only chance.
Yes, I'm an old connecticut yankeee with that value set. Those values have saved the world more than once and I don't back off them or ever apologize
for them. Americans deserve to ride on their high horse- they paid for it will the blood and guts of our fathers and grandfathers. America was
founded by a revolution of the people- we have a different mindset Meican can never undestand or appreciate. La Raza... geeeesh
Yes, it is a very high horse I proudly ride as an American while Mexico rides a flea infested burro painted like a zebra headed down a path it can't
even find. That is reality.
[Edited on 7-21-2009 by Woooosh] |
Whoooosh,
Gnukid raised good questions. I am glad you at least closed the gap with your first paragraph regarding your/(my)/The obvious solution. 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Mexico bears the responsibility to police its borders. It appears that they are making the attempt. |
Policeing ports of entry is only part of the job and responsibility. Our lame efforts to control immigration testify to that.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
What is "temporary" is delaying the obvious solution- decriminalize it, legalize it, regulate it, tax it and move on. It's really that simple. All
the other problems will go away- just like alcohol. |
Go away? Go where, Tony? The larger part of the problem now is people. The cartels, not the drugs. Where will this standing army go? Even if
they wanted an honest job, where is that to be found?
It would probably take everybody's breath away if the estimated strength of the cartels were known. A huge number, I'm willing to bet. If it were
public knowledge, the exodus for the border would be of biblical numbers.
This problem has no simple solution. Solve one part and you creat another.
This is war.
I'm not sure who I quoted up there. It's getting confusing.
[Edited on 7-23-2009 by DENNIS]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Dennis You act as though the affect of contraband smuggling is only on Mexico, where as crime related to smuggling is felt in every city in the world
and the numbers are much higher than in Mexican Cities.
It seems that you would benefit from a closer analysis of contraband worldwide and its affects?
And perhaps instead of looking at US/Mexico Military as the savior consider their funding/involvement as a direct relationship to
crime/murder/smuggling.
It doesn't need to be so cryptic? The issue is not the size of US or Mexico's military its their practices and direct relationship to drug channels,
shipments, murders, etc...
Again, its a bit silly to speak of Mexico's human rights violatations when the US is actively hosting many civilian torture camps, and Obama is
promoting detention of civilians even if they are innocent? Yet you are concerned that Mexico has a problem?
If you are so energetic and vocal about issues why not focus on those that affect you the most, the ongoing policies of Obama as a continuation of
Bush/Cheney which promotes torture of civilians, warrantless surveilance, assassination squads etc...
And can you explain why the two countries actions are unrelated when they share funding, training, channels, profits, prisons, etc...
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
What is "temporary" is delaying the obvious solution- decriminalize it, legalize it, regulate it, tax it and move on. It's really that simple. All
the other problems will go away- just like alcohol. |
Go away? Go where, Tony? The larger part of the problem now is people. The cartels, not the drugs. Where will this standing army go? Even if
they wanted an honest job, where is that to be found?
It would probably take everybody's breath away if the estimated strength of the cartels were known. A huge number, I'm willing to bet. If it were
public knowledge, the exodus for the border would be of biblical numbers.
This problem has no simple solution. Solve one part and you creat another.
This is war.
I'm not sure who I quoted up there. It's getting confusing.
[Edited on 7-23-2009 by DENNIS] |
No Dennis, that quote was not from me. I did comment on it though, briefly, as a possible solution.
So........
You have a point there Dennis! But you have to start somewhere. War is not the answer. In fact, it has made it worse.
Get the middle man (cartels) out of it by decriminalizing it on both sides of the border. Squeeze that balloon and then deal with where it goes when
that direction becomes apparent. Drugs is the business they know. Perhaps when fragmented, the cartels won't have the profit motivation or a clear
focus on where or why to continue their violence.
Right now, drugs are their focus. They are already into kidnapping for ransom. If that is all they are left with, it would be a one at a time
endeavor, with some success and some failures.
We have had this discussion before on this forum. I think that it would be difficult for people to change their basic philosophy regarding this
proposal. So be it!
For those that are open to breaching the status quo, strategy is open for discussion.
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