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Eugenio
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
And it would poor Government policy to allow agents to make on the spot decisions as to when to enforce the laws and when not to based upon the claim
that the goods are for charity.
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Tell us how one can make a donation of goods, not money, in Mexico and get a tax write-off from the states. I would imagine a dollar donation to the
International Red Cross would work for this. |
I don't know, perhaps an American charity can get goods across for Mexican charities. My posts were in response to negative comments like these in
this thread that slam Mexico and its people:
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Heartless #@^%$*&*%$!!!!!!!!
What is wrong with these people? I just don't get it?
no wonder People stay like they are.
That is Mexico
Mexicano Ways of doing things
Mexico has resisted change for many years and will keep doing so
their national attitude is, "We don't need your help. We can do it ourselves"
what kind of heartless government
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Comments made by charitable people???????
Don't forget, I'm the sole gringo in the Tijuana Booster Club. Too bad there aren't more. The lousy attitude many Americans have towards Mexico is
doing more damage than any hurricane does.
[Edited on 10-13-2009 by k-rico] |
Far from being a "slam" or "lousy attitude" against Mexico, these folks sound like kind hearted sorts simply expressing exasperation - they would like
to help more. They're the good guys - ease off...
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toneart
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Thank you, Eugenio.
No soup for K-rico! 
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k-rico
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Criminy, now I feel bad. I didn't mean to be hard on anybody. I just disliked folks calling the Mexicans heartless, too proud to accept help when it's
needed, and the other negative implications on their culture just because the border agents were doing their job and enforcing the import/export laws.
I thought folks were reading much to much into this when it is just a simple matter of the rules that are in place governing international matters.
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toneart
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I have been thinking overnight about this topic. We are talking about a law; importation duty.
When I am affected by a law that seems unreasonable, I first get mad. But I contain my anger and comply.To exhibit anger can get you into trouble. But
it leaves me with a bad taste. So, I try to look for the reason or intent of the law.
In this case, the intent is to collect revenue. Is that really fair when it deprives people in dire need for disaster relief? Oh sure, we will pay the
duty and then what happens the next time there is a disaster? Are we going to go through all that hassle and expense? I don't think so. We are
discouraged.
So we have a moral dilemma:
* Is it right that a law is so inflexible that it deprives people in urgent need from receiving what they need?
*Is this a law to be respected?
*Should there be an edict from higher up, say the governor or even the president to allow a discretionary exception for a specific event?
*Should this edict be subject to interpretation by the individual border officials,
*or should it be granted as policy and all officials be informed that disaster relief (obvious stuff; clothing, food, tarps, repair supplies) be allow
to pass without taxing?
If not, why is it right?:
*Nationalistic Pride?
*Money more important than urgent need?
*Other reasons? (You fill in the blank).
And don't tell me, "because it's the law". That is the same reasoning that causes a person to drive 65 miles per hour in the freeway fast lane without
moving over when traffic is zipping around him.
In today's news, there a little boy who was kicked out of school for carrying his favorite utensil to school to use while eating. It was a Swiss Army
Knife type of utensil and had a knife as well as a spoon and other pull out tools. He had violated a school law against bringing a weapon to school.
He was arrested and was facing time in a reform school. Fortunately, the little boy's innocence was obvious and the officials recanted their hard
line.
So, the point I am making is that society makes rules for the benefit of the greater good. They are necessary. But, exceptions can and should be made
under certain circumstances or events.
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k-rico
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Of course you're correct exceptions should be made for charitable donations. I made the point that folks were expecting the customs folks to make the
exceptions based upon their claim that the goods were for charity, "claim" is the operative word. I believe that everybody who tried to bring stuff
across and got turned back were really going to donate the stuff but expecting the customs guys to operate based upon a claim of charity is
unreasonable.
An extreme example, let's say I have 10 computer systems in my car and I tell the customs guy I'm going to give them to a high school in Tijuana,
should they let me through without paying import taxes?
There are certainly more thieves and liars than there are charitable people. That's the problem.
A legitimate US charity dealing with a legitimate Mexican charity can probably get goods across duty free, but I don't really know.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
In this case, the intent is to collect revenue. |
With all due respect, Tony, it's that and more. It's a way to protect the businesses in Mexico that do abide by the law and make a living selling
imported goods.
If you operated a tire store and your inventory consisted of properly imported tires, you would be upset if someone opened a tire store across the
street with an inventory of contraband.
Just trying to see the issue from all sides.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
There are certainly more thieves and liars than there are charitable people. That's the problem.
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References please.
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
In this case, the intent is to collect revenue. |
With all due respect, Tony, it's that and more. It's a way to protect the businesses in Mexico that do abide by the law and make a living selling
imported goods.
If you operated a tire store and your inventory consisted of properly imported tires, you would be upset if someone opened a tire store across the
street with an inventory of contraband.
Just trying to see the issue from all sides. |
The point you make is valid in a larger sense, Dennis, but we're not talking about contraband in this instance. My point was to make an exception for
a particular disaster event and for a limited time period. And the goods would have to appear obvious as donations to a particular event.
To address K-Rico's concerns, if one were taking 10 computers across
and claiming they are for a school, they would probably have credentials to show, such as Engineer Mike. Otherwise, 10 computers would set off my
credibility alarm if I were a border official.
I also realize that K-rico is concerned about stereotyping Mexicans. As Eugenio says, that is probably not the case in the responders of this string.
I think we are all looking for whatever reason the border officials are, or why the law would be, so inflexible in emergency situations. We are all
saying in our different ways, "What could it be?", because it is alien to our cultural giving nature.
(edited by the fallible for stupidity).
[Edited on 10-14-2009 by toneart]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
we're not talking about contraband in this instance. |
Technically, we are, Tony.
-----------
con⋅tra⋅band /ˈkɒntrəˌbænd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kon-truh-band] Show IPA
Use contraband in a Sentence
See web results for contraband
See images of contraband
–noun 1. anything prohibited by law from being imported or exported.
2. goods imported or exported illegally.
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It would be nice if on-the-spot, special dispensation could be granted but, the system apparently won't allow for that.
The crossing is a federal facility. I doubt they have much desire to countermand their rules of order for altruism. Sometimes they will but, that's
the exception.
I think it's time for good samaritans to find another method of bringing goods to the needy. This one is no longer viable and people are beating
their heads against the wall trying to appeal to heartfelt reason in a time of great need for law and order.
Just my 2.
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toneart
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Yep, Dennis...that is the reality of it.
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Bajahowodd
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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but do I not recall that there were posts made here just after Jimena that noted the Cruz Roja would have to have made
an appeal to the International Red Cross before any donations could be accepted? That Cruz Roja never made such an appeal?
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
That Cruz Roja never made such an appeal? |
Who might know that?
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k-rico
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Setup a 501c3 organization in San Diego, maybe the Bajanomad Baja Charity, perhaps establish an agreement with a charity in Tijuana if necessary to
get the goods across, get the requisite paperwork done, collect the donations in San Diego and take them across.
Might work. I'll look into the feasibility and build a website if it's a go. I have the time and wherewithal. Any non-profit organization organizers
out there that have done this before?
If you go the 501c3 (a tax code) route, you can solicit foundations for funding.
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DENNIS
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Hey k-rico........check your U2U in five minutes.
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
Setup a 501c3 organization in San Diego, maybe the Bajanomad Baja Charity, perhaps establish an agreement with a charity in Tijuana if necessary to
get the goods across, get the requisite paperwork done, collect the donations in San Diego and take them across.
Might work. I'll look into the feasibility and build a website if it's a go. I have the time and wherewithal. Any non-profit organization organizers
out there that have done this before?
If you go the 501c3 (a tax code) route, you can solicit foundations for funding. |
That is what Engineer Mike (Mike Fleming)does for his Mulege Scholarship Fund. Also the various Rotary Clubs. That sometimes works and
sometimes it doesn't, thus the lament that has been vocalized in this thread. Same for unaffiliated individuals; problems at the border.
As you say, there are options: send cash through a fund; wait and buy goods locally. They don't work if you are going to a disaster area where there
is nothing left on the store shelves, i.e. flooded and ruined. The problem is, the people need relief immediately.
The Mexican military were the first responders and did an excellent job. But lots more was needed. Many many generous people responded by vehicle and
by air, and by setting up collection depots along the way. If there was tax to be paid, people paid it. Mike even offered to pay the tax if people
bringing relief goods to Mulege were taxed.
I think it is good for us to discuss this and maybe we will be better equipped next time with a plan of action in advance. There might even be some soup in it for you.
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Eugenio
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I'd be the first to admit that I'm a paranoic - but I really prefer to do my donating from my hand directly to where I want it to go. For example I
just recently found out that a good friend of mine in a semi-governmental position in Mexicali set up a raffle for scholarships (prize was a computer)
- and miracles of miracles another friend of his won. I found out because my friend was complaining that the guy that won hadn't yet paid him for the
computer.
Anyway - up to now I've been able to talk to the aduana folks and reach some type of agreement - usually it's a "pasa" with eyes rolling (as if to say
"just don't ask me to do it again") - on other occasions a few bucks (like 25-50) will get a truck across. But mostly I just do it "estilo hormiga"
(small quantities) and there's no need to say anything.
Of course none of this works when there's a major disaster and large quantities are needed like what's happened in Mulege. Which is the theme here I
guess.
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Eugenio
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I should add I don't have any experience with the new aduana people that were put in place - what - a couple of months ago? Maybe that's why the
folks that run the soup kitchen weren't able to pass.
I'm sure that it will be just a matter of time before the system falls back into it's same old habits.
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nanaimoite
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Just read all your write ups about bringing stuff across the line. I'm befuddled. We bought a wack of shoes and stuff for kids from Wallyworld
[Walmart] and our Legion [VFW] has collected 40 pr of eye glasses. I'm I to understand I maybe prevented from bring it across or I may have to duty?
peg
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by nanaimoite
We bought a wack of shoes and stuff for kids from Wallyworld [Walmart] |
Yep...probably. What's a "Wack?" If that's a bunch, you can probably count on it, especially if new. Depends on the particular moment at the
gate. Nothing there is guaranteed.
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nanaimoite
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[wack] 24 pairs of shoes, 40 coloring book, crayon, and used eye glasses.
Dennis you say, probably which way? No go, or duty.
peg
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